" LET US ALL REMEMBER "

I would feel sorry for the QPR fans but if it was Cardiff NO-ONE would give a f--k

my point too

To me they are not the same at all and I think Steve Davies put it the best above.
We broke no rules and if as it seems QPR have then they will rightly be punished. I do feel for the QPR fans (well some) who through no fault of there own may see a promotion disappear but those are the rules and they should not be broken.

In saying that I am still very confident Norwich will drop points, I just hope we can win our two games.

Luke I do not wish to liken the two situations but just point out that rules are likely to change because of our transfer policy and use of the loan system this year, yes we have done nothing wrong but something is not right if as I believe the laws of the game will change as a result.

how about no-one mentions QPR till after the hearing stop everyone arguing and complaining and discussing other clubs matters this is a cardiff city forum

how about no-one mentions QPR till after the hearing stop everyone arguing and complaining and discussing other clubs matters this is a cardiff city forum

Well said Ben

Another aspect of this whole case which is so easy to forget s that if the charge of fielding a player subject to a 3rd party agreement during season 2009-2010 it would have had far reaching implications on last seasons league table.

If the charge is proven then the players registrations is null and void and under FL regulations he would be ineligible to play. If you take just 4 games in which he played into account say Crystal Palace and Sheffield Wed home and away under FL rules the club would have lost 12 points.

QPR finished the season on 57 points that deduction would have reduced their total to 45 points remember Sheffield Wednesday were relegated with 47 points.That great club and those fantastic supporters broke no rules but suffered because of an alleged breaches by QPR.

What price the integrity of the sport if we just accept that ?

Carl I may be wrong but I thought I could remember you saying in one of your posts/updates that if we got promoted then it was agreed with Man City that we would have to pay them all of the share of Bellamy's wages that they have been paying this season. In which case we will, admittedly after the event, have paid the whole of Bellamy,s £90,000 per week wages so what's the problem? If we don't go up then we haven't gained any advantage either.

Contradiction my friend!

You say we will not have gained an advantage if we do not gain promotion, surely everyone realises that when you sign a player who was voted the best player in the Premier league the season previous that you are gaining an advantage, whether you succeed is irrelevant.

And yes you are totally correct, if we get promoted then we pay all of the wages but that is AFTER we gain the £90million

Another aspect of this whole case which is so easy to forget s that if the charge of fielding a player subject to a 3rd party agreement during season 2009-2010 it would have had far reaching implications on last seasons league table.

If the charge is proven then the players registrations is null and void and under FL regulations he would be ineligible to play. If you take just 4 games in which he played into account say Crystal Palace and Sheffield Wed home and away under FL rules the club would have lost 12 points.

QPR finished the season on 57 points that deduction would have reduced their total to 45 points remember Sheffield Wednesday were relegated with 47 points.That great club and those fantastic supporters broke no rules but suffered because of an alleged breaches by QPR.

What price the integrity of the sport if we just accept that ?

I wish i had a brain to write posts like this

Thats fine but In my opinion DJ would not be doing his job correctly if we didnt use the rules to the maximum to help the club which I believe he did with Bellamy. Breaking the rules a number of times (if found guilty) is totally different, they cant expect to break the rules and get away with it.

Another aspect of this whole case which is so easy to forget s that if the charge of fielding a player subject to a 3rd party agreement during season 2009-2010 it would have had far reaching implications on last seasons league table.

If the charge is proven then the players registrations is null and void and under FL regulations he would be ineligible to play. If you take just 4 games in which he played into account say Crystal Palace and Sheffield Wed home and away under FL rules the club would have lost 12 points.

QPR finished the season on 57 points that deduction would have reduced their total to 45 points remember Sheffield Wednesday were relegated with 47 points.That great club and those fantastic supporters broke no rules but suffered because of an alleged breaches by QPR.

What price the integrity of the sport if we just accept that ?

Good post castleblue,If foung guilty there will be a lot of clubs wanting blood
Iwonder if the irc will fa will discuss such matters

Last edited by boxerbob on Sun May 01, 2011 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

That throughout all this talk of QPR and cheating etc.

Remember how many clubs were gunning for us when we signed Craig Bellamy.

We do not pay anywhere near a percentage of his wages before it is deemed morally correct and I am certain that the rules regarding loan signings will change this Summer as a result.

I am not saying that we have cheated in any way but are we right to take the moral high ground when, let's be honest, we would be going mental if another club had done what we have done throughout this season.

Yes QPR may have broken rules but they were broken in August 2009, not this season and as far as I am concerned they are worthy Champions and if we are to gain promotion automatically then I hope we do it on merit.

I am not saying I would take promotion via default but I certainly would not celebrate it and I think that way of promotion would cause problems amongst City fans as those who want DJ out would claim he has ultimately failed and he only got up by default.

I am very surprised at this post Carl and whilst I always respect opinions that are different to mine I think you are most definately wrong on a few points here.

Firstly as a club we have done absolutely nothing wrong with the terms of the Craig Bellamy every detail of that loan was checked over by the FL prior to the transfer being approved so we have absolutely nothing to reproach ourselves over nothing. Football is a dog eat dog business and if any other club in the Championship could have done this deal they would of make absolutely no mistake about that.

As for rules being changed to prevent such a loan happening again well I hope the amendment to rules application has been put in because it is now to late to submit rules changes to be ratified by the FL AGM in June.

The other part where I think you are so wrong in your opinion is that QPR have very much been charged with infringement of FA regulations this season, I accept a lot of the charges relate to event around the time of signing the player in July 2009 but I thought you would have known that it is not uncommen for the FA to backdate charges against a club. Luton Town for instance were charged with alledged infringments of FA regulations regarding unlicensed agents and improper payments to agent between July 2004 and February 2007. Luton eventually lost their FL status as a result of point deductions from both the FA and FL and as I believe each and every club involved in the FL or FA competitions has an absolute responsibility to act AT ALL TIMES WITH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS I have no sympathy for clubs who are foundto have breached them.

It may be that I spent over 20 years in football administration but I passiontately believe in the integrity of the sport we all love and the competitions our club takes part in. I can tell you this IF we messed up our last 2 games and the Jacks finished ahead of us and get promoted because QPR have points deducted I would say well done to them because having played within the rules and regulations and IMO will be promoted on merit, if QPR are found guilty any merit they have earned on the pitch is totally devalued by their behaviour off it.

Remember they are charged deliberately submitting false documentation to the FA Investigation department in September 2010 in my opinion any club found guilty of that has lost all respect for the National Association and the competitions it takes part in and I hope the FA absolutely throw the book at them.

If that charge is proven during the IRC of course.

Not a personal dig Carl I think you are a top poster on this board but please please think again on this point THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME AND IT'S COMPETITIONS MUST COME BEFORE ALL ELSE.

If found guilty then I agree QPR deserve whatever punishment the FL find necessary but my point was that many City fans are getting a little carried away by the whole affair when if we are honest, yes we did not break rules, but ask yourself this, when we signed Craig Bellamy was it right, morally ?

Ok I admit football is far from a morally correct business but maybe that is where I am old fashioned.

We owed money left right and centre and in many cases still do, I am just surprised at the many responses on here regarding QPR and I do wonder would we as a set of fans have such an interest if we were not a point off the automatics ?

That throughout all this talk of QPR and cheating etc.

Remember how many clubs were gunning for us when we signed Craig Bellamy.

We do not pay anywhere near a percentage of his wages before it is deemed morally correct and I am certain that the rules regarding loan signings will change this Summer as a result.

I am not saying that we have cheated in any way but are we right to take the moral high ground when, let's be honest, we would be going mental if another club had done what we have done throughout this season.

Yes QPR may have broken rules but they were broken in August 2009, not this season and as far as I am concerned they are worthy Champions and if we are to gain promotion automatically then I hope we do it on merit.

I am not saying I would take promotion via default but I certainly would not celebrate it and I think that way of promotion would cause problems amongst City fans as those who want DJ out would claim he has ultimately failed and he only got up by default.

I am very surprised at this post Carl and whilst I always respect opinions that are different to mine I think you are most definately wrong on a few points here.

Firstly as a club we have done absolutely nothing wrong with the terms of the Craig Bellamy every detail of that loan was checked over by the FL prior to the transfer being approved so we have absolutely nothing to reproach ourselves over nothing. Football is a dog eat dog business and if any other club in the Championship could have done this deal they would of make absolutely no mistake about that.

As for rules being changed to prevent such a loan happening again well I hope the amendment to rules application has been put in because it is now to late to submit rules changes to be ratified by the FL AGM in June.

The other part where I think you are so wrong in your opinion is that QPR have very much been charged with infringement of FA regulations this season, I accept a lot of the charges relate to event around the time of signing the player in July 2009 but I thought you would have known that it is not uncommen for the FA to backdate charges against a club. Luton Town for instance were charged with alledged infringments of FA regulations regarding unlicensed agents and improper payments to agent between July 2004 and February 2007. Luton eventually lost their FL status as a result of point deductions from both the FA and FL and as I believe each and every club involved in the FL or FA competitions has an absolute responsibility to act AT ALL TIMES WITH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS I have no sympathy for clubs who are foundto have breached them.

It may be that I spent over 20 years in football administration but I passiontately believe in the integrity of the sport we all love and the competitions our club takes part in. I can tell you this IF we messed up our last 2 games and the Jacks finished ahead of us and get promoted because QPR have points deducted I would say well done to them because having played within the rules and regulations and IMO will be promoted on merit, if QPR are found guilty any merit they have earned on the pitch is totally devalued by their behaviour off it.

Remember they are charged deliberately submitting false documentation to the FA Investigation department in September 2010 in my opinion any club found guilty of that has lost all respect for the National Association and the competitions it takes part in and I hope the FA absolutely throw the book at them.

If that charge is proven during the IRC of course.

Not a personal dig Carl I think you are a top poster on this board but please please think again on this point THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME AND IT'S COMPETITIONS MUST COME BEFORE ALL ELSE.

If found guilty then I agree QPR deserve whatever punishment the FL find necessary but my point was that many City fans are getting a little carried away by the whole affair when if we are honest, yes we did not break rules, but ask yourself this, when we signed Craig Bellamy was it right, morally ?

Ok I admit football is far from a morally correct business but maybe that is where I am old fashioned.

We owed money left right and centre and in many cases still do, I am just surprised at the many responses on here regarding QPR and I do wonder would we as a set of fans have such an interest if we were not a point off the automatics ?

But we are and thats why everyones getting worked up.

If we lose tomorrow and norwich win,we're out of the automatic promotion places!I've always felt the FA dont want a welsh club,alone a possible 2 welsh clubs in the premiership.If thats the case,if qpr are proven guilty as charged my thinking is they'll be given a small deduction in points and a massive fine

Bob, I am of the opinion that they will not receive a points deduction at all.

But, I do not know any more than you or anybody else on the matter, if they did receive a point deduction then I believe it would be big.

There would not be, in my opinion, a case where they would get deductions so small that they would still be guaranteed automatic promotion or even a play off place.

To me they are not the same at all and I think Steve Davies put it the best above.
We broke no rules and if as it seems QPR have then they will rightly be punished. I do feel for the QPR fans (well some) who through no fault of there own may see a promotion disappear but those are the rules and they should not be broken.

In saying that I am still very confident Norwich will drop points, I just hope we can win our two games.

Luke I do not wish to liken the two situations but just point out that rules are likely to change because of our transfer policy and use of the loan system this year, yes we have done nothing wrong but something is not right if as I believe the laws of the game will change as a result.

The laws of the game, may well change because of Chelsea's first goal against Spurs yesterday, or Lampard's disallowed goal against Germany in the World Cup as well, which means that they may well bring in goal line technology earlier than it might have otherwise done, but it doesn't mean that the benefitting teams (Chelsea & Germany in these cases), have done anything wrong or morally wrong!

To be honest Carl, I had the same thoughts about Bellamy coming to Cardiff as you, in that I thought that the rules are possibly lax and need to be changed!

However, as already mentioned in this thread, Stoke won promotion with a bevy of loan players and so did Blackpool!

There are many Premiership loan players playing for other teams in this league, who were first choice in their parent clubs, or new clubs from last season and I can't see how how our innocent scenario with Bellamy, compares with the QPR scenario!

That throughout all this talk of QPR and cheating etc.

Remember how many clubs were gunning for us when we signed Craig Bellamy.

We do not pay anywhere near a percentage of his wages before it is deemed morally correct and I am certain that the rules regarding loan signings will change this Summer as a result.

I am not saying that we have cheated in any way but are we right to take the moral high ground when, let's be honest, we would be going mental if another club had done what we have done throughout this season.

Yes QPR may have broken rules but they were broken in August 2009, not this season and as far as I am concerned they are worthy Champions and if we are to gain promotion automatically then I hope we do it on merit.

I am not saying I would take promotion via default but I certainly would not celebrate it and I think that way of promotion would cause problems amongst City fans as those who want DJ out would claim he has ultimately failed and he only got up by default.

I have to agree with Baked and Steve Davies Carl, the above post is not your finest hour.

I don't know how this has happened but the QPR debate has been turned on its head somehow and it almost feels as though Cardiff City were the ones in the dock for doing wrong, but unfairly got away with it. That's absolute poppy cock it's QPR who are accused of breaking the rules, but their fans seem to think they are too big (due to having Billionaire owners) to face justice and can use lawyers to bully a favourable result.

I am now becoming shocked at the level of undeserved sympathy they are getting.

As for Dave Jones if we do go up by default then that would confirm what I have always suspected; he has a massive lucky streak which is his one and only unique management quality.

Tony that last sentence is poppy cock and you know it.

The many of City fans who do not believe in DJ would use a promotion by default against him and never let him live it down and that is the main reason why I hope we get promoted on merit.

[
Craig your understanding that we pay over a 3rd of Bellamy's wages is wrong but that is not the point of the post I am just stating that we have morally not done right and I expect the rules to change BECAUSE of what we have done.

That is a matter of opinion Carl.

Man City would not let Bellamy go to another premier club. We know why. So they were left with a player on £90,000 pw wages doing nothing. It has also come transparent that he was injured as well. We offered to pay a certain amount of his wages that no other club was willing to pay knowing that we could only get one out of two games out of him. Everyone got carreid away that we had scooped the top premier player but lets be honest it was not long before some started questioning if we had done the right thing. Even opposing fans said what is the point of us having him if he does not play much.

It is only lately we have started to benefit from him with the expectations we expected from the start. Now people are starting to question again, just like when we first got him, how fare is it we should have him. No one was saying that in November and December were they?

Most clubs owe money left, right and centre at ALL levels of football (I concede not all as much as we did, but a big chunk nonetheless).. Yet these clubs continue to buy players at many different levels of wages because it is within the rules.

We didn't do anything wrong by getting Bellamy in the way that we did. Neither by breaking rules, or being morally corrupt. Plenty of other teams have done worse.

we have done nothing wrong,we have abided by the rules,qpr havent so if they get docked points so be it,i fail to see any comparision to what qpr have done & the bellamy loan to us!if we are promoted as a result of qpr be docked pointss i will celebrate just as much!

EXACTLY!

I dont see any comparison either - as we didn't break any rules regarding bringing Bellamy in! The wages is something sorted between both clubs. Man City were obviously happy with the arrangement to let it go through.

This also draws unnecessary attention to our club, when it is already done and dusted months ago!!

We are paying over a 3rd of Bellamy's wages, and as i understand it - if we are promoted, then we have to pay the Full amount of what Man City have already payed back to them on completion of promotion?

Craig your understanding that we pay over a 3rd of Bellamy's wages is wrong but that is not the point of the post I am just stating that we have morally not done right and I expect the rules to change BECAUSE of what we have done.

Your assumptions are way off the mark.


I am not having a go at our club or it's policy I was the same as anyone else who was ecstatic when we signed him, but the point is that many are the high horse I am just stating that we are not whiter than white.

[
Craig your understanding that we pay over a 3rd of Bellamy's wages is wrong but that is not the point of the post I am just stating that we have morally not done right and I expect the rules to change BECAUSE of what we have done.

That is a matter of opinion Carl.

Man City would not let Bellamy go to another premier club. We know why. So they were left with a player on £90,000 pw wages doing nothing. It has also come transparent that he was injured as well. We offered to pay a certain amount of his wages that no other club was willing to pay knowing that we could only get one out of two games out of him. Everyone got carreid away that we had scooped the top premier player but lets be honest it was not long before some started questioning if we had done the right thing. Even opposing fans said what is the point of us having him if he does not play much.

It is only lately we have started to benefit from him with the expectations we expected from the start. Now people are starting to question again, just like when we first got him, how fare is it we should have him. No one was saying that in November and December were they?

Ian how can you claim that no other club were willing to pay the amount of wages that we have ?

Because no one came forward did they. It was rumoured that Tottenham and Everton were interested but did they come forward to annouce their interest? No they did not, why becuase Man city would have not allowed it to happen.

I am very surprised at this post Carl and whilst I always respect opinions that are different to mine I think you are most definately wrong on a few points here.

Firstly as a club we have done absolutely nothing wrong with the terms of the Craig Bellamy every detail of that loan was checked over by the FL prior to the transfer being approved so we have absolutely nothing to reproach ourselves over nothing. Football is a dog eat dog business and if any other club in the Championship could have done this deal they would of make absolutely no mistake about that.

As for rules being changed to prevent such a loan happening again well I hope the amendment to rules application has been put in because it is now to late to submit rules changes to be ratified by the FL AGM in June.

The other part where I think you are so wrong in your opinion is that QPR have very much been charged with infringement of FA regulations this season, I accept a lot of the charges relate to event around the time of signing the player in July 2009 but I thought you would have known that it is not uncommen for the FA to backdate charges against a club. Luton Town for instance were charged with alledged infringments of FA regulations regarding unlicensed agents and improper payments to agent between July 2004 and February 2007. Luton eventually lost their FL status as a result of point deductions from both the FA and FL and as I believe each and every club involved in the FL or FA competitions has an absolute responsibility to act AT ALL TIMES WITH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS I have no sympathy for clubs who are foundto have breached them.

It may be that I spent over 20 years in football administration but I passiontately believe in the integrity of the sport we all love and the competitions our club takes part in. I can tell you this IF we messed up our last 2 games and the Jacks finished ahead of us and get promoted because QPR have points deducted I would say well done to them because having played within the rules and regulations and IMO will be promoted on merit, if QPR are found guilty any merit they have earned on the pitch is totally devalued by their behaviour off it.

Remember they are charged deliberately submitting false documentation to the FA Investigation department in September 2010 in my opinion any club found guilty of that has lost all respect for the National Association and the competitions it takes part in and I hope the FA absolutely throw the book at them.

If that charge is proven during the IRC of course.

Not a personal dig Carl I think you are a top poster on this board but please please think again on this point THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME AND IT'S COMPETITIONS MUST COME BEFORE ALL ELSE.

If found guilty then I agree QPR deserve whatever punishment the FL find necessary but my point was that many City fans are getting a little carried away by the whole affair when if we are honest, yes we did not break rules, but ask yourself this, when we signed Craig Bellamy was it right, morally ?

Ok I admit football is far from a morally correct business but maybe that is where I am old fashioned.

We owed money left right and centre and in many cases still do, I am just surprised at the many responses on here regarding QPR and I do wonder would we as a set of fans have such an interest if we were not a point off the automatics ?

I would absolutely Carl because I worked damned hard for over 20 years as a local league secretary and county fa council member to maintain integrity in football. Believe me it was hard work but above all else I believe that everyone involved in this wonderful sport should have respect for all aspects of it.

Respect for the laws of the game for match officials and opponents and of course respect for the rules and regulations of the competitions thats where you find true and longlasting morality for the game.

Football administration is simple really and is purely about black and white right and wrong, you say we are not whiter than white of CB I couldn't disagree more. We have shown complete respect for the rules and regulations of the competition so we are as white as driven snow.

To introduce a moral dimension to the CB loan signing introduces a grey area and football doesn't operate efficently with anything less than black and white.

I respect your opinion of course and I know you respect mine so I know you will understand why my 20 years experience has left me with such strong views.

I tell you one thing Carl Neil Warnock would most definately not want my 20 years experience on the IRC Panel thats a fact.

I am very surprised at this post Carl and whilst I always respect opinions that are different to mine I think you are most definately wrong on a few points here.

Firstly as a club we have done absolutely nothing wrong with the terms of the Craig Bellamy every detail of that loan was checked over by the FL prior to the transfer being approved so we have absolutely nothing to reproach ourselves over nothing. Football is a dog eat dog business and if any other club in the Championship could have done this deal they would of make absolutely no mistake about that.

As for rules being changed to prevent such a loan happening again well I hope the amendment to rules application has been put in because it is now to late to submit rules changes to be ratified by the FL AGM in June.

The other part where I think you are so wrong in your opinion is that QPR have very much been charged with infringement of FA regulations this season, I accept a lot of the charges relate to event around the time of signing the player in July 2009 but I thought you would have known that it is not uncommen for the FA to backdate charges against a club. Luton Town for instance were charged with alledged infringments of FA regulations regarding unlicensed agents and improper payments to agent between July 2004 and February 2007. Luton eventually lost their FL status as a result of point deductions from both the FA and FL and as I believe each and every club involved in the FL or FA competitions has an absolute responsibility to act AT ALL TIMES WITH THE RULES AND REGULATIONS I have no sympathy for clubs who are foundto have breached them.

It may be that I spent over 20 years in football administration but I passiontately believe in the integrity of the sport we all love and the competitions our club takes part in. I can tell you this IF we messed up our last 2 games and the Jacks finished ahead of us and get promoted because QPR have points deducted I would say well done to them because having played within the rules and regulations and IMO will be promoted on merit, if QPR are found guilty any merit they have earned on the pitch is totally devalued by their behaviour off it.

Remember they are charged deliberately submitting false documentation to the FA Investigation department in September 2010 in my opinion any club found guilty of that has lost all respect for the National Association and the competitions it takes part in and I hope the FA absolutely throw the book at them.

If that charge is proven during the IRC of course.

Not a personal dig Carl I think you are a top poster on this board but please please think again on this point THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME AND IT'S COMPETITIONS MUST COME BEFORE ALL ELSE.

If found guilty then I agree QPR deserve whatever punishment the FL find necessary but my point was that many City fans are getting a little carried away by the whole affair when if we are honest, yes we did not break rules, but ask yourself this, when we signed Craig Bellamy was it right, morally ?

Ok I admit football is far from a morally correct business but maybe that is where I am old fashioned.

We owed money left right and centre and in many cases still do, I am just surprised at the many responses on here regarding QPR and I do wonder would we as a set of fans have such an interest if we were not a point off the automatics ?

I would absolutely Carl because I worked damned hard for over 20 years as a local league secretary and county fa council member to maintain integrity in football. Believe me it was hard work but above all else I believe that everyone involved in this wonderful sport should have respect for all aspects of it.

Respect for the laws of the game for match officials and opponents and of course respect for the rules and regulations of the competitions thats where you find true and longlasting morality for the game.

Football administration is simple really and is purely about black and white right and wrong, you say we are not whiter than white of CB I couldn't disagree more. We have shown complete respect for the rules and regulations of the competition so we are as white as driven snow.

To introduce a moral dimension to the CB loan signing introduces a grey area and football doesn't operate efficently with anything less than black and white.

I respect your opinion of course and I know you respect mine so I know you will understand why my 20 years experience has left me with such strong views.

I tell you one thing Carl Neil Warnock would most definately not want my 20 years experience on the IRC Panel thats a fact.

But do you believe that the majority would care should we be mid table ?

Because no one came forward did they. It was rumoured that Tottenham and Everton were interested but did they come forward to annouce their interest? No they did not, why becuase Man city would have not allowed it to happen.

Ian regarding Everton yes they did come forward Moyes met Bellamy the day before he signed for City but my question to you was are we sure another club, not necessarily Premiership, have not paid the wages that Vincent Tan is paying ?

we have done nothing wrong,we have abided by the rules,qpr havent so if they get docked points so be it,i fail to see any comparision to what qpr have done & the bellamy loan to us!if we are promoted as a result of qpr be docked pointss i will celebrate just as much!

EXACTLY!

I dont see any comparison either - as we didn't break any rules regarding bringing Bellamy in! The wages is something sorted between both clubs. Man City were obviously happy with the arrangement to let it go through.

This also draws unnecessary attention to our club, when it is already done and dusted months ago!!

We are paying over a 3rd of Bellamy's wages, and as i understand it - if we are promoted, then we have to pay the Full amount of what Man City have already payed back to them on completion of promotion?

Craig your understanding that we pay over a 3rd of Bellamy's wages is wrong but that is not the point of the post I am just stating that we have morally not done right and I expect the rules to change BECAUSE of what we have done.

I am not having a go at our club or it's policy I was the same as anyone else who was ecstatic when we signed him, but the point is that many are the high horse I am just stating that we are not whiter than white.

With Ridsdale pulling the strings not so long ago who knows what dodgy deals we might have got ourselves into.

Weather they get a points deduction or not at this particular time I don't care as I want to solely focus on seeing Cardiff City gaining automatic promotion, preferably without the aid of a QPR points deduction. Of course I won't complain if they are deducted points, however I am not going to waste my time caring about their court case.

Tony that last sentence is poppy cock and you know it.

The many of City fans who do not believe in DJ would use a promotion by default against him and never let him live it down and that is the main reason why I hope we get promoted on merit.

Sorry Carl I don't believe its poppy cock at all and I have been absolutely consistent all along about my doubts about DJ's managerial ability.

Frankly there is plenty of previous if anyone wants to 'use' something against DJ, from Ramsey in the FA Cup Final, losing 6-0 at Preston and standing on the sides with his hands in his pockets whilst Blackpool shipped off to the Premier League.

I don’t even believe he can claim to have been a success this season, as from what I can see Bellamy has been managing City, certainly when it comes to motivating the side.

That said of course I want us to go up automatically without doing it through the backdoor, but my own personal opinion is we are going to have to do it through the play-offs as the FA will bottle it and Norwich will get enough points.

every city fan would celebrate promotion no matter how it came & anyone who says otherwise is lying!

With Ridsdale pulling the strings not so long ago who knows what dodgy deals we might have got ourselves into.

Weather they get a points deduction or not at this particular time I don't care as I want to solely focus on seeing Cardiff City gaining automatic promotion, preferably without the aid of a QPR points deduction. Of course I won't complain if they are deducted points, however I am not going to waste my time caring about their court case.

Chris you think similar to myself

That throughout all this talk of QPR and cheating etc.

Remember how many clubs were gunning for us when we signed Craig Bellamy.

We do not pay anywhere near a percentage of his wages before it is deemed morally correct and I am certain that the rules regarding loan signings will change this Summer as a result.

I am not saying that we have cheated in any way but are we right to take the moral high ground when, let's be honest, we would be going mental if another club had done what we have done throughout this season.

Yes QPR may have broken rules but they were broken in August 2009, not this season and as far as I am concerned they are worthy Champions and if we are to gain promotion automatically then I hope we do it on merit.

I am not saying I would take promotion via default but I certainly would not celebrate it and I think that way of promotion would cause problems amongst City fans as those who want DJ out would claim he has ultimately failed and he only got up by default.

At the end of the day QPR won the league on merit, there was no cheating on the pitch & for the life of me I cannot see how they had an advantage over the rest of us. Good luck to QPR and I wish them well in their enquiry

every city fan would celebrate promotion no matter how it came & anyone who says otherwise is lying!

Sorry Mogs you got me wrong mate

Because no one came forward did they. It was rumoured that Tottenham and Everton were interested but did they come forward to annouce their interest? No they did not, why becuase Man city would have not allowed it to happen.

Ian regarding Everton yes they did come forward Moyes met Bellamy the day before he signed for City but my question to you was are we sure another club, not necessarily Premiership, have not paid the wages that Vincent Tan is paying ?

Moyes showed interest and was about the only one. They did not put in a cast iron offer though.

Yes I an sure Carl for the reason I have mentioned in another thread but will repeat here. We only got 1 or 2 games out of Bellamy when he first came here due ot his injuries. A premiership club just cannot afford that luxury of having a playing in their squad witrh that disadvantage.

Tony that last sentence is poppy cock and you know it.

The many of City fans who do not believe in DJ would use a promotion by default against him and never let him live it down and that is the main reason why I hope we get promoted on merit.

Sorry Carl I don't believe its poppy cock at all and I have been absolutely consistent all along about my doubts about DJ's managerial ability.

Frankly there is plenty of previous if anyone wants to 'use' something against DJ, from Ramsey in the FA Cup Final, losing 6-0 at Preston and standing on the sides with his hands in his pockets whilst Blackpool shipped off to the Premier League.

I don’t even believe he can claim to have been a success this season, as from what I can see Bellamy has been managing City, certainly when it comes to motivating the side.

That said of course I want us to go up automatically without doing it through the backdoor, but my own personal opinion is we are going to have to do it through the play-offs as the FA will bottle it and Norwich will get enough points.

Tony you claimed DJ to have a lucky streak and this is his one major contribution as manager. that was the point I am saying is poppy cock.

There are too many who will claim he fails at the end so therefore I cannot accept that the same be said that he is lucky.