QPR - Their Charges, and the rules broken

Little snippet for you ask Carl Curtis to find out & I'm sure he can

Fee agreed with the FA by QPR to pay compensation.

Remember where you heard it first

Stan, I did not so much 'find out' but moreso I took a call today from somebody who was able to give me information on the subject.
My friend who rang moves in circles that I would expect to know what is the latest goings on and what he had to say was that he has been told that QPR will have a very heavy fine and NO points deduction whatsoever.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this but I expect this to now be the outcome.

Obviously the truth is that until May 3rd no-one can be 100% certain but you seem to have been told exactly the same information as myself.

No decision has been made, just a load of rumors flying about from every direction. Just wait till week friday and we'll find out exactly what went on and what their punishment is.

The decision will be made after the hearing on the 3rd of May. (6th may)

Rumours are like Stans - "QPR and the FA have already agreed a figure to be fined!"

all we have posted above is the rules and regs. and the facts etc etc. We aren't spreading rumours as to what charges will be proved guilty and what punishment will be dished out. That is for you to look at and decide for yourself?

Exactly there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone expressing an opinion (like Paul above) about whether they personally believe QPR are guilty or not or what punishment they might get if they are.

As Merlin said the rumours are the one's about someone knowing someone who know's something etc.

Little snippet for you ask Carl Curtis to find out & I'm sure he can

Fee agreed with the FA by QPR to pay compensation.

Remember where you heard it first

Stan, I did not so much 'find out' but moreso I took a call today from somebody who was able to give me information on the subject.
My friend who rang moves in circles that I would expect to know what is the latest goings on and what he had to say was that he has been told that QPR will have a very heavy fine and NO points deduction whatsoever.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this but I expect this to now be the outcome.

Obviously the truth is that until May 3rd no-one can be 100% certain but you seem to have been told exactly the same information as myself.

Thank you Carl, much appreciated.

I'll leave it there fella's.

QPR have broken FA rules not FL rules.

Qoute
from article above
Some may find the situation odd that the FA has the power to punish a FL club with a sporting sanction like a points deduction even though the FL rules governing this topic make no mention of such a prohibition. FA rule E gives the FA full discretion to impose a raft of sanctions. Whilst some may argue that the FL should be the only entity with the power to dock points from one of its members, the FA as the national association has the authority to sanction any FL or PL club. The significance of this is that every PL, FL and non-league club must ensure that they comply with the FA regulations or could risk FA disciplinary action. The FA’s jurisdiction is not limited to FA cup matches either. The FA’s ambit encompasses every competition a football club enters. A prime example is Luton Town who were docked 10 points by the FA for financial irregularities.

Little snippet for you ask Carl Curtis to find out & I'm sure he can

Fee agreed with the FA by QPR to pay compensation.

Remember where you heard it first

Stan, I did not so much 'find out' but moreso I took a call today from somebody who was able to give me information on the subject.
My friend who rang moves in circles that I would expect to know what is the latest goings on and what he had to say was that he has been told that QPR will have a very heavy fine and NO points deduction whatsoever.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this but I expect this to now be the outcome.

Obviously the truth is that until May 3rd no-one can be 100% certain but you seem to have been told exactly the same information as myself.

Can't see it myself Carl.

Too many misdemeanors, and too much potential backlash.

Anyway we'll know soon enough. 3 points v Boro is all that matters now.

TBH I'm amazed we didnt get done for something during the last few seasons.

Little snippet for you ask Carl Curtis to find out & I'm sure he can

Fee agreed with the FA by QPR to pay compensation.

Remember where you heard it first

Stan, I did not so much 'find out' but moreso I took a call today from somebody who was able to give me information on the subject.
My friend who rang moves in circles that I would expect to know what is the latest goings on and what he had to say was that he has been told that QPR will have a very heavy fine and NO points deduction whatsoever.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this but I expect this to now be the outcome.

Obviously the truth is that until May 3rd no-one can be 100% certain but you seem to have been told exactly the same information as myself.

Carl - do you understand the importance of the I.R.C. and who will be placed in that party? when the hearing commences on the 3rd May - no ones friend knows shit about what the FA will entail in their little 3 day hearing regarding the 7 charges brought about by the FA! and not the FL..... If there was going to be a simple FINE - then the FA would have already fined them.

I know a lot of people take your posts as gospel, but that one is way off the mark IMO!

Little snippet for you ask Carl Curtis to find out & I'm sure he can

Fee agreed with the FA by QPR to pay compensation.

Remember where you heard it first

Stan, I did not so much 'find out' but moreso I took a call today from somebody who was able to give me information on the subject.
My friend who rang moves in circles that I would expect to know what is the latest goings on and what he had to say was that he has been told that QPR will have a very heavy fine and NO points deduction whatsoever.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this but I expect this to now be the outcome.

Obviously the truth is that until May 3rd no-one can be 100% certain but you seem to have been told exactly the same information as myself.

What disturbs m about this is not the fact that QPR may not get a points deduction, if the "independant" commission
decides this then so be it.

However I have put the quotes around independant because if Carl's contact is correct then there is something very wrong with the system.

The commision should be the soie arbiter of whether points are to be deducted or not.

Since they are not even going to start discussing the matter until next Tuesday, they should not be expressing any view as to what the possible outcome will be.

If someone in the FA already knows what the outcome is then there is little point in the commision bothering to meet.

Perhaps. Carl you can ask your friend whether he thinks there is something wrong with his being able to confidently forecast and independant commissions views before they have heard any evidence!!!!

Little snippet for you ask Carl Curtis to find out & I'm sure he can

Fee agreed with the FA by QPR to pay compensation.

Remember where you heard it first

Stan, I did not so much 'find out' but moreso I took a call today from somebody who was able to give me information on the subject.
My friend who rang moves in circles that I would expect to know what is the latest goings on and what he had to say was that he has been told that QPR will have a very heavy fine and NO points deduction whatsoever.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this but I expect this to now be the outcome.

Obviously the truth is that until May 3rd no-one can be 100% certain but you seem to have been told exactly the same information as myself.

What disturbs m about this is not the fact that QPR may not get a points deduction, if the "independant" commission
decides this then so be it.

However I have put the quotes around independant because if Carl's contact is correct then there is something very wrong with the system.

The commision should be the soie arbiter of whether points are to be deducted or not.

Since they are not even going to start discussing the matter until next Tuesday, they should not be expressing any view as to what the possible outcome will be.

If someone in the FA already knows what the outcome is then there is little point in the commision bothering to meet.

Perhaps. Carl you can ask your friend whether he thinks there is something wrong with his being able to confidently forecast and independant commissions views before they have heard any evidence!!!!

Got to agree with you here Elwood. I reckon Carl and Stan has been told some porky pies!

Stan, I did not so much 'find out' but moreso I took a call today from somebody who was able to give me information on the subject.
My friend who rang moves in circles that I would expect to know what is the latest goings on and what he had to say was that he has been told that QPR will have a very heavy fine and NO points deduction whatsoever.

I must admit I was surprised to hear this but I expect this to now be the outcome.

Obviously the truth is that until May 3rd no-one can be 100% certain but you seem to have been told exactly the same information as myself.

What disturbs m about this is not the fact that QPR may not get a points deduction, if the "independant" commission
decides this then so be it.

However I have put the quotes around independant because if Carl's contact is correct then there is something very wrong with the system.

The commision should be the soie arbiter of whether points are to be deducted or not.

Since they are not even going to start discussing the matter until next Tuesday, they should not be expressing any view as to what the possible outcome will be.

If someone in the FA already knows what the outcome is then there is little point in the commision bothering to meet.

Perhaps. Carl you can ask your friend whether he thinks there is something wrong with his being able to confidently forecast and independant commissions views before they have heard any evidence!!!!

Got to agree with you here Elwood. I reckon Carl and Stan has been told some porky pies!

Exactly - a small circle of friends guessing at an outcome to earn brownie points against each other! the IRC hasn't even seen the FA's produced evidence yet, or formally met! So how on earth the wild claims have come out is obviously just tit and tat!

It’s the tribunals job to say whether QPR are guilty or not,
If found guilty the FA will decide the punishment

Exactly - a small circle of friends guessing at an outcome to earn brownie points against each other! the IRC hasn't even seen the FA's produced evidence yet, or formally met! So how on earth the wild claims have come out is obviously just tit and tat!

And you know the evidence hasn't been viewed yet?

You think they are going to turn up on the 3rd and say right what have we got here then?!!!!

All evidence would have been submitted to the panel weeks ago.

sTAN GO TO BED AND STOP WORRYING

sTAN GO TO BED AND STOP WORRYING

sTAN GO TO BED AND STOP WORRYING

Why would I worry?

MY TEAM IS IN THE PREMIERSHIP MUSH

sTAN GO TO BED AND STOP WORRYING

Why would I worry?

MY TEAM IS IN THE PREMIERSHIP MUSH

Oh yes u are
you are even in a search engine

http://search.aol.co.uk/aol/search?s_it ... N+FINE&rp=

I've heard points off ain't gonna happen. From someone who is a 100% lock.

I've heard points off ain't gonna happen. From someone who is a 100% lock.

I'm sure you are convinced that your source is 100% but without more evidence it is just another rumour, which IMO is the problem here.

We are a discussion board and IMO links to the FA Rules and our crude understanding of them make for a great debate. What is not helpful is anyone claiming to know someone, who knows something etc. when the commission hasn't even sat yet.

It’s the tribunals job to say whether QPR are guilty or not,
If found guilty the FA will decide the punishment

Actually the IRC will decide on the facts if the allegation (or charges) have been proven or not and the IRC will also agree on the sanction should they decide the club are guilty. The FA must have no influence on the decision or possible sanction because they must decide on any appeal.

What I find most interesting about this debate is that it is difficult to find anyone who is prepared to argue that QPR are not guilty of some if not all of the charges, however many are prepared to argue that the most likely sanction of any guilty verdict will be a fine.

History would tell us that the FA have been taking an increasingly firm stand on 3rd Party involvement and on the use of unlicensed agents. If you look back in 2005 Arsenal were fined £15,000 for using an unlicensed agent in the transfer of Quincy Awusu Obeyie the FA then introduced stronger rules including the introduction of a examination and qualification requirement to become a licensed agent. The next biggest test of this regulation was the case of Luton Town in 2008 who were deducted 10 points when they were found guilty of using an unlicensed agent. If QPR are found guilty on this charge who in their right mind could possibly believe that the club would be fined rather than have points deducted, the FA have set the standard and a guilty verdict will bring with it a 10 point deduction I have absolutely no doubt about that.

In regards 3rd party ownership the FA have in recent years introduced a raft of regulations prohibiting TPPO at the time a player registers, these lastest regulations were introduced on 4th July 2009 the player concerned in this QPR case was signed by the club after that date, not long after but nonetheless after that date, and such QPR were required to comply with the requirements of the regulations. This case is the first test of these regulations introduced by the FA to maintain the integrity of football in this country so any judgement will be ground breaking, what kind of message will be sent out by hitting the guilty club with only a fine.

But far and away the most serious charge is that QPR and Mr Paladini submitted false documentation to the FA regarding the players contract. The last club to be found guilty of submitting false documentation regarding player contracts (Financial Terms) were Boston Utd who were fined £100,000 and had 4 points deducted and both their Manager and Chairman received 20 month bans from football.

QPR are charged with submitting both failing to declare a 3rd party agreement and when requested by the FA for clarification deliberately submitting false documents, charges which together are far worse than Boston Utd, so can anyone seriously believe the club will receive only a fine.

It is true that no one will the know if the club are guilty or not or what sanctions will follow any possible guilty verdict, however on the balance of probability and considering past disciplinary sanctions I believe the punishments will include some if not all of Fines, Suspensions and Points Deductions.

Good post Castle.

I think most of these posters above are just guessing and clutching at straws without either bothering to check if they know what they are posting about.

In my first original post - at the bottom, is a link to the ACTUAL rules and regulations in PDF Format for anyone who wants to bother researching before they post!

I haven't heard anything from anyone in the know! because nobody that I know sits on a IRC panel! But with all the knowledge accumalated from respected members from here & other football forums, and the Rules and Regs. we can piece together our own montage of evidence and judge between us what we think is a more likely outcome. Thats doesn't mean that it WILL or WONT happen though.

Just cant stand people posting info on this debate as if they are in the know, when they have no Idea what they are talking about!

:lol:

THE DESPERATION IS KICKING IN NOW FELLAS!! YOU DIDN'T SEEM SO VOCAL WHEN 2ND SPOT WAS YOURS

POOR SHOW CARDIFF POOR SHOW..ROLL ON 6TH MAY CAN'T WAIT!!

It's a shame because 99% of your decent fans are not salivating at the thought of a points deduction.

The vultures are circling

If you WIN by cheating thats not winning and punishment is fair , now if cardiff was in same boat evryone would be kicking off - look at Bellamy saga , all was resolved prior to signing - you deserve what you get and if that a let off then ok but you`ll get fined and points as this is an independent enquiry

Little snippet for you ask Carl Curtis to find out & I'm sure he can

Fee agreed with the FA by QPR to pay compensation.

Remember where you heard it first

How can a fee be agreed prior to any hearing ??? Scandoulous and cheating at the highest level

Good post Castle.

I think most of these posters above are just guessing and clutching at straws without either bothering to check if they know what they are posting about.

In my first original post - at the bottom, is a link to the ACTUAL rules and regulations in PDF Format for anyone who wants to bother researching before they post!

I haven't heard anything from anyone in the know! because nobody that I know sits on a IRC panel! But with all the knowledge accumalated from respected members from here & other football forums, and the Rules and Regs. we can piece together our own montage of evidence and judge between us what we think is a more likely outcome. Thats doesn't mean that it WILL or WONT happen though.

Just cant stand people posting info on this debate as if they are in the know, when they have no Idea what they are talking about!

Merlin

in the boardroom at doncaster their chairman was discussing this and he was advocating anything from 10 to 25 points and a fine.
although people cant second guess the outcome i also believe that if it was a fine only then the fine would have been made public by now.
the whole reason that it is being left this late is that the judgement and appeal process will be completed prior to the first play off fixture.
I note earlier in the thread that stan says that compensation has been agreed
who is going to get the compensation?
If qpr are found guilty and everything points to the fact that they will be found guilty on the falsifying documents charge then the fa's own rules point towards point deduction

Good post Castle.

I think most of these posters above are just guessing and clutching at straws without either bothering to check if they know what they are posting about.

In my first original post - at the bottom, is a link to the ACTUAL rules and regulations in PDF Format for anyone who wants to bother researching before they post!

I haven't heard anything from anyone in the know! because nobody that I know sits on a IRC panel! But with all the knowledge accumalated from respected members from here & other football forums, and the Rules and Regs. we can piece together our own montage of evidence and judge between us what we think is a more likely outcome. Thats doesn't mean that it WILL or WONT happen though.

Just cant stand people posting info on this debate as if they are in the know, when they have no Idea what they are talking about!

Thanks Merlin I have to say I'm enjoying the debate on this whole issue as it takes me back to the 20 years I spent in football administration and some of the disciplinary cases I sat in judgement on. Those years of experience tell me one thing and that is no one can prejudge the outcome of this hearing, however my experience of hearing cases for both on field and off field infringement of rules, regulations or simply the laws of the game tells me that a guilty verdict on one or more of these charges will result in more than a fine.

But of course that is my opinion but it is an opinion based on over 20 years experience and no matter who friend of a friend says differently I will not change my opinion.

Whatever the outcome I will take no pleasure out of QPR losing points and affecting their promotion as the only losers will be the players, manager and fans of QPR and they are all innocent in this matter, but my experience tells me that will not matter a dot to the FA.

Next week when the hearing starts you will see the national media focus on the case a hell of a lot more than they have to date, you can expect god knows how many updates per day on SSN until such time as the judgement is published and that will be followed be an in depth analysis of the outcome. Expect national papers to print an analysis of the charges and the likely sanctions and until the judgement is published it will be much the same as this messageboard no one will know but that will not stop speculation.

It's a fascinating case and if QPR are found not guilty I will do what I've done all season and that is recognise them as the class act of the Championship this season and they will be promoted fully on merit. But if they are found guilty then those merits will be somewhat devalued in my opinion and I won't be alone in that opinion including I believe the members of the IRC.

As I say a fascinating case

i have contacted the minister of sport Hugh Robertson on the issue of leaked information seeing as there is a supposed judgment prior to any hearing,
hes not best pleased with the FA and the way it runs english football as it is, this was the reply.

Thank you for your e-mail address to Hugh. It has come through to his constituency office rather than his Departmental Desk. I will pass it onto his Department but if you need to contact him you should do it via:

Hugh Robertson Esq MP
Minister of Sport
DCMS
2 - 4 Cockspur Street
London SW1Y5DH

Dhoooooooooooooooooooooooooo

nevermind he will get it prior to the hearing im sure

:lol:

THE DESPERATION IS KICKING IN NOW FELLAS!! YOU DIDN'T SEEM SO VOCAL WHEN 2ND SPOT WAS YOURS

POOR SHOW CARDIFF POOR SHOW..ROLL ON 6TH MAY CAN'T WAIT!!

It's a shame because 99% of your decent fans are not salivating at the thought of a points deduction.

The vultures are circling

Have to agree with you QPR !

i have contacted the minister of sport Hugh Robertson on the issue of leaked information seeing as there is a supposed judgment prior to any hearing,
hes not best pleased with the FA and the way it runs english football as it is, this was the reply.

Thank you for your e-mail address to Hugh. It has come through to his constituency office rather than his Departmental Desk. I will pass it onto his Department but if you need to contact him you should do it via:

Hugh Robertson Esq MP
Minister of Sport
DCMS
2 - 4 Cockspur Street
London SW1Y5DH

Dhoooooooooooooooooooooooooo

nevermind he will get it prior to the hearing im sure

CastleBlue -

Can you remember what the selection procedure is for the three members of the IRC....

As i understood before one is usually a solicitor or barrister with at least 7 years of previous football related administration (or something along those lines?)

the other is relating to somebody that has been in football for such a length of time ie. an ex pro referee...ex/player/manager

not sure on the 3rd, some one more independent outside the world of football? cant remember.....

CastleBlue -

Can you remember what the selection procedure is for the three members of the IRC....

As i understood before one is usually a solicitor or barrister with at least 7 years of previous football related administration (or something along those lines?)

the other is relating to somebody that has been in football for such a length of time ie. an ex pro referee...ex/player/manager

not sure on the 3rd, some one more independent outside the world of football? cant remember.....

Maybe one cardiff fan . One Norwich fan and one JB

CastleBlue -

Can you remember what the selection procedure is for the three members of the IRC....

As i understood before one is usually a solicitor or barrister with at least 7 years of previous football related administration (or something along those lines?)

the other is relating to somebody that has been in football for such a length of time ie. an ex pro referee...ex/player/manager

not sure on the 3rd, some one more independent outside the world of football? cant remember.....

Merlin this is taken directly from FA Regulation 4.5

the chairman of that Regulatory Commission shall be a Specialist Panel Member who is a Solicitor or
Barrister of seven or more years’ standing.

The 2 remaining numbers are I understand appointed by the FA Chief Regulatory Officer but must also be experts in the matter under consideration.

CastleBlue -

Can you remember what the selection procedure is for the three members of the IRC....

As i understood before one is usually a solicitor or barrister with at least 7 years of previous football related administration (or something along those lines?)

the other is relating to somebody that has been in football for such a length of time ie. an ex pro referee...ex/player/manager

not sure on the 3rd, some one more independent outside the world of football? cant remember.....

Merlin this is taken directly from FA Regulation 4.5

the chairman of that Regulatory Commission shall be a Specialist Panel Member who is a Solicitor or
Barrister of seven or more years’ standing.

The 2 remaining numbers are I understand appointed by the FA Chief Regulatory Officer but must also be experts in the matter under consideration.

thanks for clearing that up!