My chat with Trust Representative

Hello Tracy nice to see you posting on here, I said you would yesterday

Nice to see my post is still here

I thought you have and annis was on about how youd quit it or something like that. Sorry if im wrong on that.

Never slagged it off but yes I have quit as a member as of 3 weeks ago. But never have I downed the trust or the people working for it.

Hello Tracy nice to see you posting on here, I said you would yesterday

Nice to see my post is still here

You are getting the hang of this Tracy, keep on at this rate and you will have a sticky in no time

Hello Tracy nice to see you posting on here, I said you would yesterday

Nice to see my post is still here

yes i am an angry person.
answer me this,
what is the trust's stance on the train lads situation.
are the trust for it's members only or the fans as a whole.

I thought you have and annis was on about how youd quit it or something like that. Sorry if im wrong on that.

Never slagged it off but yes I have quit as a member as of 3 weeks ago. But never have I downed the trust or the people working for it.

Why is that Carl ?

Not having a dig, I'm genuinely interested.

Surely the best way for the fans to have a voice is 'as one' in a democratic organisation and for those who think they can run it better to stand and encourage their friends to join and back them ?

My biggest wish is that we had one 10 years ago, like the Jacks, when the club was small and the fans could have taken a decent proportion of shares like they did. Maybe, just maybe Sam may have been reigned in a bit.

I STILL see it as the basis for a safety net if we are abandoned by our investors and have to start from scratch, as has happened at Newport. Not to mention the dozens of other clubs.

Hello Tracy nice to see you posting on here, I said you would yesterday

Nice to see my post is still here

yes i am an angry person.
answer me this,
what is the trust's stance on the train lads situation.
are the trust for it's members only or the fans as a whole.

If you genuinely want to discuss this you can find me at the trust area inside gate 5 on match days and I will be more than happy to discuss this with you then

why not answer on here?

I thought you have and annis was on about how youd quit it or something like that. Sorry if im wrong on that.

Never slagged it off but yes I have quit as a member as of 3 weeks ago. But never have I downed the trust or the people working for it.

Why is that Carl ?

Not having a dig, I'm genuinely interested.

Surely the best way for the fans to have a voice is 'as one' in a democratic organisation and for those who think they can run it better to stand and encourage their friends to join and back them ?

My biggest wish is that we had one 10 years ago, like the Jacks, when the club was small and the fans could have taken a decent proportion of shares like they did. Maybe, just maybe Sam may have been reigned in a bit.

I STILL see it as the basis for a safety net if we are abandoned by our investors and have to start from scratch, as has happened at Newport. Not to mention the dozens of other clubs.

Tim once I do the update I will gladly answer.

Why is that Carl ?

Not having a dig, I'm genuinely interested.

Surely the best way for the fans to have a voice is 'as one' in a democratic organisation and for those who think they can run it better to stand and encourage their friends to join and back them ?

My biggest wish is that we had one 10 years ago, like the Jacks, when the club was small and the fans could have taken a decent proportion of shares like they did. Maybe, just maybe Sam may have been reigned in a bit.

I STILL see it as the basis for a safety net if we are abandoned by our investors and have to start from scratch, as has happened at Newport. Not to mention the dozens of other clubs.[/quote]
Tim once I do the update I will gladly answer.[/quote]


Cheers Carl.

I might be off-line by then but will check it out tomorrow.

why not answer on here?

Honestly - because I think you have ulterior motives - but if you genuinely want to hear my opinion then find me on match days and thereafter I am happy for you to quote me.

why not answer on here?

Honestly - because I think you have ulterior motives - but if you genuinely want to hear my opinion then find me on match days and thereafter I am happy for you to quote me.

Sorry didn't think this posted first time!!

why not answer on here?

Honestly - because I think you have ulterior motives - but if you genuinely want to hear my opinion then find me on match days and thereafter I am happy for you to quote me.

i don't have ulterior motives and i take offence at that remark.
i was not asking for your opinions, they don't interest me, i was asking for the trusts stance.
i have no desire to come and look for you on a match day.
you are a trust rep, why can't you just answer on their behalf.

why not answer on here?

Jam.

I have answered on here (several times) explaining that it is impossible for the Trust or anyone else for that matter to put across the accused fans` point of view if we don`t even know who they are and what their current position is in the matter.

I have also asked for them to p.m. me with their details if they don`t want them put on a public messageboard (which I think is sensible) , but have received no response to date. As far as I am aware , it is also the case that no other Trust board member has been contacted by them.

Do you really expect the Trust , the Supporters Club , the club or any other official body to write to Arriva , the transport police , the press etc. without this information?

why not answer on here?

Honestly - because I think you have ulterior motives - but if you genuinely want to hear my opinion then find me on match days and thereafter I am happy for you to quote me.

i don't have ulterior motives and i take offence at that remark.
i was not asking for your opinions, they don't interest me, i was asking for the trusts stance.
i have no desire to come and look for you on a match day.
you are a trust rep, why can't you just answer on their behalf.

As I said previously you are just an angry man - trying to have a discussion with you I fear would be like trying to have an argument with a drunk - it will get me nowhere. I am happy to meet you on match day but maybe you are happier to hurl insults at me from your keyboard - carry on I don't mind as this is a demcoracy after all

why not answer on here?

Jam.

I have answered on here (several times) explaining that it is impossible for the Trust or anyone else for that matter to put across the accused fans` point of view if we don`t even know who they are and what their current position is in the matter.

I have also asked for them to p.m. me with their details if they don`t want them put on a public messageboard (which I think is sensible) , but have received no response to date. As far as I am aware , it is also the case that no other Trust board member has been contacted by them.

Do you really expect the Trust , the Supporters Club , the club or any other official body to write to Arriva , the transport police , the press etc. without this information?

Also the stance on this will depend on whether the Trust is being expected to defend the individuals, which as you mention is fairly impossible, OR, to defnd the name of Cardiff City fans in general.

Given my conversations with a mate who works as a ticket inspector on the trains who thinks the behaviour of a big chunk of our fans is pretty shit you might have your work cut out there !

Ironically I know the Trust have been working with Arriva and the police previously to try to IMPROVE our fans behaviour on trains, which putting this case aside which I think was more the woman's issue than the kids, doesnt always do the reputation of our club much good.

why not answer on here?

Jam.

I have answered on here (several times) explaining that it is impossible for the Trust or anyone else for that matter to put across the accused fans` point of view if we don`t even know who they are and what their current position is in the matter.

I have also asked for them to p.m. me with their details if they don`t want them put on a public messageboard (which I think is sensible) , but have received no response to date. As far as I am aware , it is also the case that no other Trust board member has been contacted by them.

Do you really expect the Trust , the Supporters Club , the club or any other official body to write to Arriva , the transport police , the press etc. without this information?

keith you are missing the point.
mike said that the trust would not back them because they were not members.
i want to know the trusts stance on the situation.
are the trust only going to back it's members or the fans as a whole.
why are the trust,ccsc and to an extent ccfc allowing the media to judge the lads and find them guilty without it going to court.

i don't have ulterior motives and i take offence at that remark.
i was not asking for your opinions, they don't interest me, i was asking for the trusts stance.
i have no desire to come and look for you on a match day.
you are a trust rep, why can't you just answer on their behalf.

Gotta be honest mate to me it looks to me that you are very anti trust and have an agenda against them for some reason. Not looking to have a go at you mate just saying what it reads like from this thread. Your coming over as really aggressive against them. You cant expect this TCM fella to give his views unless on something like the train stuff unless it comes as a proper trust statement. One of the trust guys did that about the shit that happend in Reading the other day and got slaughtered for it.

Jam.

I have answered on here (several times) explaining that it is impossible for the Trust or anyone else for that matter to put across the accused fans` point of view if we don`t even know who they are and what their current position is in the matter.

I have also asked for them to p.m. me with their details if they don`t want them put on a public messageboard (which I think is sensible) , but have received no response to date. As far as I am aware , it is also the case that no other Trust board member has been contacted by them.

Do you really expect the Trust , the Supporters Club , the club or any other official body to write to Arriva , the transport police , the press etc. without this information?

iv sent u a pm

As I said previously you are just an angry man - trying to have a discussion with you I fear would be like trying to have an argument with a drunk - it will get me nowhere. I am happy to meet you on match day but maybe you are happier to hurl insults at me from your keyboard - carry on I don't mind as this is a demcoracy after all [/quote]

i am not after a discussion with you. i want the trusts stance.
show me where i have hurled insults at you. there have been none.

why not answer on here?

Honestly - because I think you have ulterior motives - but if you genuinely want to hear my opinion then find me on match days and thereafter I am happy for you to quote me.

He'll find that hard because like thousands of us he sits in the family stand and along with so many others they have no access to the Trust area.
Whilst on the subject because this as rattled my cage, I have always thought the Trust represented all the fans at Cardiff not just those that have joined, if that is the case I will have to strongly consider my position as a Trust member, I have never been one for closed shop tactics and I feel that the way the Trust could have advanced it's status and position is by fighting such issues on behalf of all the Cardiff fans, and whilst it does look like these lads have have been pulled over the coals have done nothing worse than be a bit loud (or they would have been charged with a criminal offence) Surely the Trust should have had a crisis management approach and looked at the worse case scenario.

Surely a statement saying something along the lines of " All of us at CCFc are concerned about the accusations and will work together to establish the truth, if there is a case to answer we will fully support the law and the club in what ever action they then take. We will also look at ways to make sure such situations don't occur again and see if we can come up with some solutions.

But in the mean time we should not judge the fans in question until they have been given their chance to put their cases forward.

Would it have been so hard to take that approach.

Jam.

I have answered on here (several times) explaining that it is impossible for the Trust or anyone else for that matter to put across the accused fans` point of view if we don`t even know who they are and what their current position is in the matter.

I have also asked for them to p.m. me with their details if they don`t want them put on a public messageboard (which I think is sensible) , but have received no response to date. As far as I am aware , it is also the case that no other Trust board member has been contacted by them.

Do you really expect the Trust , the Supporters Club , the club or any other official body to write to Arriva , the transport police , the press etc. without this information?

iv sent u a pm

Thanks. I have now seen it.It was timed at 6.07 p.m. , but for some reason has only appeared in my inbox within the last few minutes.

I will reply by p.m. - that OK by you?
Keith

why not answer on here?

Honestly - because I think you have ulterior motives - but if you genuinely want to hear my opinion then find me on match days and thereafter I am happy for you to quote me.

He'll find that hard because like thousands of us he sits in the family stand and along with so many others they have no access to the Trust area.
Whilst on the subject because this as rattled my cage, I have always thought the Trust represented all the fans at Cardiff not just those that have joined, if that is the case I will have to strongly consider my position as a Trust member, I have never been one for closed shop tactics and I feel that the way the Trust could have advanced it's status and position is by fighting such issues on behalf of all the Cardiff fans, and whilst it does look like these lads have have been pulled over the coals have done nothing worse than be a bit loud (or they would have been charged with a criminal offence) Surely the Trust should have had a crisis management approach and looked at the worse case scenario.

Surely a statement saying something along the lines of " All of us at CCFc are concerned about the accusations and will work together to establish the truth, if there is a case to answer we will fully support the law and the club in what ever action they then take. We will also look at ways to make sure such situations don't occur again and see if we can come up with some solutions.

But in the mean time we should not judge the fans in question until they have been given their chance to put their cases forward.

Would it have been so hard to take that approach.

thank you gwyn, finally someone who sees what i am trying to say.

i am not after a discussion with you. i want the trusts stance.

You started this off by saying you talked to one of the guys who runs the trust. You also said you aint a member of it and think its weak or pointless or something like that. So what more do you want mate? Why you going on about it.

why not answer on here?

Honestly - because I think you have ulterior motives - but if you genuinely want to hear my opinion then find me on match days and thereafter I am happy for you to quote me.

He'll find that hard because like thousands of us he sits in the family stand and along with so many others they have no access to the Trust area.
Whilst on the subject because this as rattled my cage, I have always thought the Trust represented all the fans at Cardiff not just those that have joined, if that is the case I will have to strongly consider my position as a Trust member, I have never been one for closed shop tactics and I feel that the way the Trust could have advanced it's status and position is by fighting such issues on behalf of all the Cardiff fans, and whilst it does look like these lads have have been pulled over the coals have done nothing worse than be a bit loud (or they would have been charged with a criminal offence) Surely the Trust should have had a crisis management approach and looked at the worse case scenario.

Surely a statement saying something along the lines of " All of us at CCFc are concerned about the accusations and will work together to establish the truth, if there is a case to answer we will fully support the law and the club in what ever action they then take. We will also look at ways to make sure such situations don't occur again and see if we can come up with some solutions.

But in the mean time we should not judge the fans in question until they have been given their chance to put their cases forward.

Would it have been so hard to take that approach.

not so sure about the 'support the law and the club' as in other cases they have been way over the top with their punishments.

[/quote]


Thanks. I have now seen it.It was timed at 6.07 p.m. , but for some reason has only appeared in my inbox within the last few minutes.

I will reply by p.m. - that OK by you?
Keith[/quote]

thank you

I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY THE ISSUE IS SO CLOUDED

i was there while this debate took place, and mike i asked the same question to you and offered a description between supporting and defending these CARDIFF CITY FANS.

before i go any further this topic an d that womans accusations will affect every train travelling cardiff city fan in the furure, so dont think this is an isolated insodent. from the peopl etraveling down the rhondda vally, cynon vally and from merthyr, sorry even our fan stravelling from the other direction as in england and scotland.
these people only now have to sing a note out of tune and end up being booked due to this incident because cardiff city fans are on the black list as being trouble makers on the trains AGAIN.
but the persicuted few who were labled as cardiff fans on that train that night HAVE NOT been charged with anything even though all have been into a police station and interviewed, also we have had witness statements saying the police have said the woman was derainged and seeking attention.
support is where the accused is having backing from a group or foundation bigger than an individual
defending them is stating they did not do it.

BIG DIFFERENCE

if the trust had come out on behalf of ALL cardiff city fans wether they pay a subcription to the trust or not, stating until this incident has been investigated and any fan charged, the trust will support the accused and any rail travelling fan. if found guilty it would wash its hands of them.

not much to ask for a body who supposidly hold the voice of the supporter.

on another note, that jamie and i raised, how would this have been reported had it been a bunch of welsh rugby fans singing their heads off on a train on the way home after an international ????????????????????

seeing as this is all this incident is going to boil down to, is a boistorus bunch of city fans singing.

where as the real criminal is the woman for waisting police time, and standing on the rail tracks stopping the train from continuing along its journey ?????????????????

sorry i f some of this has been covered since i started writing it but it took a while

Ironically I know the Trust have been working with Arriva and the police previously to try to IMPROVE our fans behaviour on trains, which putting this case aside which I think was more the woman's issue than the kids, doesnt always do the reputation of our club much good.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/joncandy/4115269230/

It's an awkward situation, I understand that the lads may of not been doing anything more than singing, but I can also understand that non-football fans may have found that intimidating.

Either way I believe 'Train Woman' was out of order in her reaction, but the fans were also behaving in a way that some people may have taken offence to.

Gwyn when you said

"He'll find that hard because like thousands of us he sits in the family stand and along with so many others they have no access to the Trust area."

I think you're being unfair because you know that if anyone ever wanted access to the Trust they can do so via a variety of means - not least of all by e-mailing us and any one of us would be more than happy to meet with them on a match day at a location outside the ground? you know this?

why not answer on here?

Honestly - because I think you have ulterior motives - but if you genuinely want to hear my opinion then find me on match days and thereafter I am happy for you to quote me.

He'll find that hard because like thousands of us he sits in the family stand and along with so many others they have no access to the Trust area.
Whilst on the subject because this as rattled my cage, I have always thought the Trust represented all the fans at Cardiff not just those that have joined, if that is the case I will have to strongly consider my position as a Trust member, I have never been one for closed shop tactics and I feel that the way the Trust could have advanced it's status and position is by fighting such issues on behalf of all the Cardiff fans, and whilst it does look like these lads have have been pulled over the coals have done nothing worse than be a bit loud (or they would have been charged with a criminal offence) Surely the Trust should have had a crisis management approach and looked at the worse case scenario.

Surely a statement saying something along the lines of " All of us at CCFc are concerned about the accusations and will work together to establish the truth, if there is a case to answer we will fully support the law and the club in what ever action they then take. We will also look at ways to make sure such situations don't occur again and see if we can come up with some solutions.

But in the mean time we should not judge the fans in question until they have been given their chance to put their cases forward.

Would it have been so hard to take that approach.

Gwyn/ Jam,Totally agree with Your post, We Need an Organisation who Backs ALL ITS FANS and SPEAKS out and are Not Just pen pushers, WE NEED AN ORGANISATION WHICH HAS BOTH Pen Pushers and PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTION NOT TALK. Rem the March against THE RIDDLER, The trust went public as an Organisation and Refused to Back US, To this Day I cant Believe it and the Same with the train Fans, I have been Asking them for weeks to BACK THEM.

PLEASE SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHAT DO THE TRUST STAND FOR ? No one ever Answers

"PLEASE SOMEONE EXPLAIN WHAT DO THE TRUST STAND FOR ? No one ever Answers"

I answered you yesterday Annis and there were a lot of leaflets given out which also explained this - and now I am going to bed - goodnight