VANDALISM AT READING

Was it hyped up by the Trust or by TLG though?

And where did TLG get his "information" from?

Tlg who still is active with the trust started all this.

Annis. TLG is no longer on the Trust board. I'm not aware that he has any post on the Trust now or has had for quite some time.

TLG apparently got given the information as he had run a coach up there.

Mike's apology to Reading was done with good intentions and good faith, especially after Reading's Trust had stood up and defended us very strongly in their program.

If you have it - or any other poster on here does, read it. I've never seen another club defend us in such a way before.

However minor it might have been we really don't need this - mud sticks, and I don't think it hurts for others to see that the vast majority of us think that ANY vandalism of other clubs grounds is unacceptable these days.

TLG's post was :-

"Dear me....

Reading's Stadium Manager attached ten photographs of the damage with his e-mail to our club officials. They showed:

Photo 1 - a kicked in waste trap
Photo 2 - a urinal cistern ripped from the wall
Photo 3 - a urinal cistern pulled out from the wall and the water pipe damaged
Photo 4 - another kicked in waste trap
Photo 5 - a third kicked in waste trap
Photo 6 - a kicked in soil pipe damaged at floor level
Photo 7 - a toilet roll dispenser pulled from wall
Photo 8 - another toilet roll dispenser pulled from wall
Photo 9 - a soap dispenser pulled from wall
Photo 10 - an anti-bacterial dispenser pulled from wall

I hope that's detail enough for you top justify the 'ranting'.

The Stadium Manager's e-mail had an air of disappointment about it. He said: "I dare say there is not much you (Cardiff City Football Club) can do about it unless there are any witnesses that are prepared to come forward. From my observations, the Cardiff supporters were treated well and were not provoked in any way. With a drawn result it makes it difficult to understand why this happened."

Precisely."

Now, TLG refers to having been told photos were attached attached, refers to the contents of said photographs.

Nowhere does he refer to having actually seen the photographs for himself.

So, did TLG simply take on trust (pardon the pun) the "info" he'd received, jump onto CCMB to moralise, or did he have another reason for his thread?

Was it hyped up by the Trust or by TLG though?

And where did TLG get his "information" from?

Tlg who still is active with the trust started all this.

Annis. TLG is no longer on the Trust board. I'm not aware that he has any post on the Trust now or has had for quite some time.

TLG apparently got given the information as he had run a coach up there.

Mike's apology to Reading was done with good intentions and good faith, especially after Reading's Trust had stood up and defended us very strongly in their program.

If you have it - or any other poster on here does, read it. I've never seen another club defend us in such a way before.

However minor it might have been we really don't need this - mud sticks, and I don't think it hurts for others to see that the vast majority of us think that ANY vandalism of other clubs grounds is unacceptable these days.

Any vandalism is bad, no matter how minor.

BUT...

IF Reading deliberately and cynically misrepresented said damage to line their own pockets, and certain "name" posters jumped the gun to castigate, moralise WITHOUT CHECKING THE EVIDENCE for themselves, there's a problem

["Forever Blue"][Lawnmower"]

Tim,

I also Know that Cardiff City followed this up and it turned out to be virtually Nil Damage, Which is great News


If that turns out to be the case then great. It seems a long list to me. Any idea how much Reading are costing this up at- and what effect it may have on future travel ?

Tim, Nothing has become of it, reading exaggerated and Nash sent the email out(Ive got one as well) without the photos, which the club realise they should of not off without research first which they now have done, wrong people got the email.

If there are photographs sent by reading fc then lets see them the camera never lies so quite simply put up or shut up.[/quote]


If this is meant for me then you'll have a long wait.

1. I dont have the photos. I merely copied the list posted on CCMB
2. I wouldn't have a clue how to post them anyway.

If its been over-done then maybe the club should come out and let us know exactly what the accusations are and what the response has been.

Unfortunately due to our history we have to be 'whiter than white' for years if we are going to be treated as normal human beings, which surely is what we all want.

can i just ask HAS ANYONE ON EITHER BOARD SEEN THE f*cking PHOTO'S
no photo's means no substantiated evidence which means not guilty mlord

["Lawnmower"]"steve davies"]["Forever Blue"][Lawnmower"]["Forever Blue"]Tim,

I also Know that Cardiff City followed this up and it turned out to be virtually Nil Damage, Which is great News


If that turns out to be the case then great. It seems a long list to me. Any idea how much Reading are costing this up at- and what effect it may have on future travel ?

Tim, Nothing has become of it, reading exaggerated and Nash sent the email out(Ive got one as well) without the photos, which the club realise they should of not off without research first which they now have done, wrong people got the email.[



If there are photographs sent by reading fc then lets see them the camera never lies so quite simply put up or shut up.

If this is meant for me then you'll have a long wait.

1. I dont have the photos. I merely copied the list posted on CCMB
2. I wouldn't have a clue how to post them anyway.

If its been over-done then maybe the club should come out and let us know exactly what the accusations are and what the response has been.

Unfortunately due to our history we have to be 'whiter than white' for years if we are going to be treated as normal human beings, which surely is what we all want.[/quote]
no not aimed at you mower its just the whole issue seems to be about these photo's no one can produce

Annis. TLG is no longer on the Trust board. I'm not aware that he has any post on the Trust now or has had for quite some time.

TLG apparently got given the information as he had run a coach up there.

Mike's apology to Reading was done with good intentions and good faith, especially after Reading's Trust had stood up and defended us very strongly in their program.

If you have it - or any other poster on here does, read it. I've never seen another club defend us in such a way before.

However minor it might have been we really don't need this - mud sticks, and I don't think it hurts for others to see that the vast majority of us think that ANY vandalism of other clubs grounds is unacceptable these days.[/quote]

Any vandalism is bad, no matter how minor.

BUT...

IF Reading deliberately and cynically misrepresented said damage to line their own pockets, and certain "name" posters jumped the gun to castigate, moralise WITHOUT CHECKING THE EVIDENCE for themselves, there's a problem[/quote]


I really cant see Reading doing that. Its not the Jacks we are talking about now. They would have been delighted by the huge, well-behaved following we brought and I cant see them risking this being reduced by trying to claim for a few broken toilet roll holders.

no not aimed at you mower its just the whole issue seems to be about these photo's no one can produce[/quote]


Steve. I might have the opportunity to bring this up next week.

Annis. TLG is no longer on the Trust board. I'm not aware that he has any post on the Trust now or has had for quite some time.

TLG apparently got given the information as he had run a coach up there.

Mike's apology to Reading was done with good intentions and good faith, especially after Reading's Trust had stood up and defended us very strongly in their program.

If you have it - or any other poster on here does, read it. I've never seen another club defend us in such a way before.

However minor it might have been we really don't need this - mud sticks, and I don't think it hurts for others to see that the vast majority of us think that ANY vandalism of other clubs grounds is unacceptable these days.

Any vandalism is bad, no matter how minor.

BUT...

IF Reading deliberately and cynically misrepresented said damage to line their own pockets, and certain "name" posters jumped the gun to castigate, moralise WITHOUT CHECKING THE EVIDENCE for themselves, there's a problem[/quote]


I really cant see Reading doing that. Its not the Jacks we are talking about now. They would have been delighted by the huge, well-behaved following we brought and I cant see them risking this being reduced by trying to claim for a few broken toilet roll holders.[/quote]

Who knows?

You nor anyone else can definitively make an informed decision due to not having seen the evidence.

So, why the need for certain people to castigate fans before the truth can be proven either way?

HILARIOUS.

Items 1 to 10 would leave Reading with a bill of no more than £500

Thats including parts and labour, and its a mornings work for one guy!

You wouldnt expect Reading to ignore the damage, you'd think they would
bring the matter up with CCFC. Its to be expected. Some of that damage
might even have been accidental. Seats get damaged weekly in every ground
cos youngsters jump up and down on them, not necessarily meaning to break them!

So who the f**k is making a mountain out of this mump???

f**k me there are some clowns aligning themselves to this club

[quote="Lawnmower"
Mike's apology to Reading was done with good intentions and good faith, especially after Reading's Trust had stood up and defended us very strongly in their program.[/quote]

Mike commented earlier :-

"I've written an apology to Reading on behalf of the Trust and its members. A small gesture, I know."

Now, can you tell me exactly why the Trust felt they had to instantly issue an apology WITHOUT CHECKING THE EVIDENCE?

Should CCFC query the actual damage found, all Reading then have to do is say "Well, your Trust believe it's true. Look, they apologised..."

I'm sure Mike's sentiments were good. Just misplaced.

Annis. This is the list of damage that was reported.

Reading's Stadium Manager attached ten photographs of the damage with his e-mail to our club officials. They showed:

Photo 1 - a kicked in waste trap
Photo 2 - a urinal cistern ripped from the wall
Photo 3 - a urinal cistern pulled out from the wall and the water pipe damaged
Photo 4 - another kicked in waste trap
Photo 5 - a third kicked in waste trap
Photo 6 - a kicked in soil pipe damaged at floor level
Photo 7 - a toilet roll dispenser pulled from wall
Photo 8 - another toilet roll dispenser pulled from wall
Photo 9 - a soap dispenser pulled from wall
Photo 10 - an anti-bacterial dispenser pulled from wall



I'm usually one of the ones who plays this down. But if this si what happened then its very stupid at best. As you say 3400 of us were there and we gave great support. By far the biggest trun out at Reading this year - Swansea took 2100 on a Saturday by way of comparison, but thanks to the acts of a few twats we are now looking like a load of cheap vandals.

Thats all after the Reading Trust praised our support and backed our calls for fairer treatment in the programme and the police up there were very good as well.

Personally I'm gutted as I had only posted that day that after Coventry away with NO police, probably the least arrests (per fan attending ) in the derby ever - and no repeat of the stand-offs on sloper or by the Ninian with the police, then 3500 travelling to Reading with no trouble we had turned the corner and could start justifying bigger allocations, less bubbles and fairer treatment. Then this. It may be fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, but we could well do without it.[/quote]

Blooody hell mate. At least four of those could realistically be seen off as accidental.

OF COURSE anything done deliberately is stupid.

How can you be gutted about it??

there were 3400 Cardiff fans there, no trouble, no drama. But a few pissed up kids
broke a few bog roll holders. Daft buggers, kids on beer. It happens all over Britain
all day every day. Reading probably look at it in EXACTLY that way really, just a few
even bigger divs supporting Cardiff want to get all 'woe is me' about it!

It doesnt really matter how much we argue on the extent of the damage lads. I HOPE it was minimal and can be put aside. At the end of the day we dont need shit like this when we are trying to show the world they can trust us.

Mike hasnt 'denounced our fans' only shown his disappointment that this has happened and that we still have people following us who think its clever to break things.

I often find myself defending the name of our support, as do most of you, this type of thing, whether it was as bad as originally reported or far less as is being suggested now really doesnt help.

Blooody hell mate. At least four of those could realistically be seen off as accidental.

OF COURSE anything done deliberately is stupid.

How can you be gutted about it??

there were 3400 Cardiff fans there, no trouble, no drama. But a few pissed up kids
broke a few bog roll holders. Daft buggers, kids on beer. It happens all over Britain
all day every day. Reading probably look at it in EXACTLY that way really, just a few
even bigger divs supporting Cardiff want to get all 'woe is me' about it![/quote]


I really cant see how 4 of these could be accidental.

However, it could well be (and I havent seen the photos) that one or 2 of these things are THE SAME item from different angles ? Not malisciously reported just misinterpreted.

how the f**k can you pull a urinal from a wall
we've got some strong lads following the city

i thought it was a great evening, was great to see fans mingling, and even better to see reading shirts bouncing round by dibs bus to the jam, and madness

Who pays for the broken seats? is it ccfc or reading? didnt Arsenal charge us for every seat?
I seen a group of mindless yobs climb over the seats instead of queueing like normal people and in tern breaking every seat they broke on (on suppose). I just dont get why why anyone with a brain cell would want to?

i was spending a penny when two unknown dickheads came in and kicked the waste off while i was trying to relieve myself then all the water and urine started to flow towards myfeet they proceeded to rip off soap dispensers etc when i zipped myself up i could not help myself i punched one of the lads for soaking my feet and for the pathetic actions of destroying property just no excuse - as been said above morons late posting as im away up north .................... I do it again and give them a slap as their a pair of dick heads !

can i just ask HAS ANYONE ON EITHER BOARD SEEN THE f*cking PHOTO'S
no photo's means no substantiated evidence which means not guilty mlord

NO THEY HAVE DEF NOT STEVE.



viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26327

can i just ask HAS ANYONE ON EITHER BOARD SEEN THE f*cking PHOTO'S
no photo's means no substantiated evidence which means not guilty mlord

NO THEY HAVE DEF NOT STEVE.



viewtopic.php?f=2&t=26327

There is a statement from mallo above saying he saw it happen.

Good on the guy for dishing out his own justice on it

Tim, I am not saying 2 idiots never caused some damage, but why are certain people talking about this Minor incident, YET 3,500 OTHER CITY FANS DONT GET ANY PRAISE.

This guy must be up out of his damn mind. £1 extra..

perhaps we should spend that new pound on building a new trust, a trust that supports the fans, and actually stands up for our rights

can anyone from either messageboard or the trust put a copy of the e.mail from reading and the photographs on this site for us to view and make a judgement on.
it seems to me we are all being judged on evidence that no one is willing to put into the public domain.
If you want to start charging £1 on every ticket for away games to cover damages you must produce some sort of proof that the so called damage took place.
I can see that mallo has indicated there was damage witnessed by himself so are there any others out there who witnessed similar events.

MY VIEW IS THIS

I REFUSE TO GET INVOLVED IN ANY OF THIS PERSONAL ARGUEMENTS

ASK CORKY OR ANY OF THE LADS AND THEY WILL TELL YOU I MAY TALK A LOAD OF BOLLOCKS FROM TIME TO TIME ( WELL A LOT OF THE TIME ) BUT I A HONEST ENOUGH FELLA

THE TRUST WORKED ON AN ANTI SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR INITIATIVE AND PRESENTATION LAST YEAR WHICH WAS AIMED AT GETTING SOME OF OUR YOUNGER FANS TO REALISE THAT VANDALISM AND OTHER LOW LEVEL STUFF AND THE WAY WE AND THEY BEHAVE BY THE GROUND IS A BAD MARK ON OUR REPUTATION


IT WAS GIVEN BY A TRUST BOARD MEMBER AND SUPPORTED BY CLUB AND POLICE LIASON OFFICERS

THE TRUST CAN BE CRITISISED FOR MANY THINGS BUT ITS TRIED TO IMPROVE OUR IMAGE..AND THATS WHY I GET PISSED OFF WHEN IT GETS SLAGGED OFF

I HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE DAMAGE AS I WAS UNABLE TO ATTEND THE GAME DUE TO MY OLD MANS HEALTH ..BUT ANY DAMAGE MAKES US LOOK BAD

i was spending a penny when two unknown dickheads came in and kicked the waste off while i was trying to relieve myself then all the water and urine started to flow towards myfeet they proceeded to rip off soap dispensers etc when i zipped myself up i could not help myself i punched one of the lads for soaking my feet and for the pathetic actions of destroying property just no excuse - as been said above morons late posting as im away up north .................... I do it again and give them a slap as their a pair of dick heads !

MALLO ISNT GOING TO MAKE THIS SORT OF THING UP

Yes, Sludge, any damage makes us look bad.

But knee-jerk reactions without even looking at the allegedly damning photgraphs doesn't help either.

mallo has identified a grand total of two people involved - having had a slap, I doubt they'd return.

can anyone from either messageboard or the trust put a copy of the e.mail from reading and the photographs on this site for us to view and make a judgement on.
it seems to me we are all being judged on evidence that no one is willing to put into the public domain.
If you want to start charging £1 on every ticket for away games to cover damages you must produce some sort of proof that the so called damage took place.
I can see that mallo has indicated there was damage witnessed by himself so are there any others out there who witnessed similar events.

STEVE

TONT TIT IS THE PERSON SUGGESTING A 1 POUND SURCHARGE OR A DONATION

HES NOT A MEBER OF THE TRUST

I FECKING GIVE UP !!

Yes, Sludge, any damage makes us look bad.

But knee-jerk reactions without even looking at the allegedly damning photgraphs doesn't help either.

mallo has identified a grand total of two people involved - having had a slap, I doubt they'd return.

I UNDERSTAND THAT MATE

Tim, I am not saying 2 idiots never caused some damage, but why are certain people talking about this Minor incident, YET 3,500 OTHER CITY FANS DONT GET ANY PRAISE.

In fairness Annis, the police have as you pointe dout yourself praised the vast majority of fans for their behaviour.

which makes it all the more galling that a couple of fans (plus those identified as intentionally breaking seats - witnesses said this happened probably not for all 20 as some may have been accidental but certainly for some), so maybe no more than 5 or 6 in total have spoiled it fr the rest of us.

NOW there may be an argument for trying to keep it low key as fans of other clubs will jump on it as 'Cardiff at it again' and brand the lot of us, but there is also an argument for getting it out in the open and facing it and keeping the pressure on those who wish to behave like this with the message that its not acceptable and that those who do this arent wanted.

We have dozens of fans refused entry or arrested for being drunk every year, which personally I think is out of order, opposing stewards and police often treat us like scum and look for a reaction so they have an excuse to nick us or throw us out.
It makes life difficult for those who follow us and puts others off.

We as fans are WINNING the battle overall, Coventry was a massive step forward and Leeds and Reading built on this, but we cant afford even a minor slip up (especially pointless vandalism that will cost our club) as it will give those who dont like us the excuse to treat us liek shit once more.

YES you are right to point out that the perpetrators represented maybe only 0.2% of 3500 passionate fans supporting their club, but also we have to admit that we still have some berks follow us and weed them out or better still shame them into sorting themselves out (none of us have perfect pasts I'm sure).

["Sludge"]

can anyone from either messageboard or the trust put a copy of the e.mail from reading and the photographs on this site for us to view and make a judgement on.
it seems to me we are all being judged on evidence that no one is willing to put into the public domain.
If you want to start charging £1 on every ticket for away games to cover damages you must produce some sort of proof that the so called damage took place.
I can see that mallo has indicated there was damage witnessed by himself so are there any others out there who witnessed similar events

STEVE

TONT TIT IS THE PERSON SUGGESTING A 1 POUND SURCHARGE OR A DONATION

HES NOT A MEBER OF THE TRUST

I FECKING GIVE UP !!

read my message again paul and you will see i am asking for anybody off either message board or the trust.
im not pinpointing individuals or their organisations im asking anybody and everybody .