Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:05 am
Bakedalasker wrote:castleblue wrote:wez1927 wrote:https://news.sky.com/story/emiliano-sala-man-who-organised-footballers-flight-goes-on-trial-12437074
Watching the updates on Walesonline he has pleaded not guilty and there have been some legal arguments which the judge has dismissed. Selecting a jury now. Surprised it's in Cardiff Crown Court. These charges are brought by the CAA and I wonder if he is found guilty if more serious charges will follow from the CPS.
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Found guilty after pleading not guilty will bring more serious charges. Imprisonment will be the verdict.
The CAS might make us pay Nantes and of so we could go after him. Problem is has the guy got £15m to pay us?
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:12 am
Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:07 am
Scoularite wrote:Contract cases can be very complicated at the best of times and with multiple parties involved and seemingly more than one activity, these are some of the key issues that I see with this one:-
1 Was the flight an integral part of the contract between Nantes and Cardiff in any way or totally separate?
2 Were Nantes involved in arranging the flight in any way, or was the agent acting on behalf of Nantes in arranging the flight?
If the answer to these points is no, then it's difficult to see how the disaster with the flight would have a bearing on our liability to Nantes.
3 If the agent is found guilty of being responsible for the disaster and Nantes are not deemed to have been involved then we are looking at - the agent himself; the agent's insurance; the plane owner's insurance; Cardiff's insurance.
So I think that it's a long way from a clear picture at the moment.
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:11 am
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:40 am
castleblue wrote:Interesting witness list who will be appearing in the trial have been read out to the court.
These include:
The defendant David Henderson.
Reference made to deceased parties Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson.
The other names or people set to feature in the case are:
Craig Keally
Faith Al-Egaily
David Smith
Anthony Hather
Abelle Eshali
Alexandre Monnier
DC Sarah Gedge
Gaile Marchant
Julie Watkins
DC Felicity Dalladay
DI Simon Hotspur
John Overall
Sharon Reed
David Kendrick
Robert Webb
Stephen Hunt
Rhys Cremims
DC Martin Guest
Barry Mooney
Russell Woodland
Lewis Kennington
WIlly McKay
Mark McKay
Jack McKay
Callum Davies
The jury has also been asked if any are Cardiff City fans or have attended Cardiff City matches.
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Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:50 am
fred keenor wrote:castleblue wrote:Interesting witness list who will be appearing in the trial have been read out to the court.
These include:
The defendant David Henderson.
Reference made to deceased parties Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson.
The other names or people set to feature in the case are:
Craig Keally
Faith Al-Egaily
David Smith
Anthony Hather
Abelle Eshali
Alexandre Monnier
DC Sarah Gedge
Gaile Marchant
Julie Watkins
DC Felicity Dalladay
DI Simon Hotspur
John Overall
Sharon Reed
David Kendrick
Robert Webb
Stephen Hunt
Rhys Cremims
DC Martin Guest
Barry Mooney
Russell Woodland
Lewis Kennington
WIlly McKay
Mark McKay
Jack McKay
Callum Davies
The jury has also been asked if any are Cardiff City fans or have attended Cardiff City matches.
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Mckays sons, interesting
Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:00 pm
castleblue wrote:fred keenor wrote:castleblue wrote:Interesting witness list who will be appearing in the trial have been read out to the court.
These include:
The defendant David Henderson.
Reference made to deceased parties Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson.
The other names or people set to feature in the case are:
Craig Keally
Faith Al-Egaily
David Smith
Anthony Hather
Abelle Eshali
Alexandre Monnier
DC Sarah Gedge
Gaile Marchant
Julie Watkins
DC Felicity Dalladay
DI Simon Hotspur
John Overall
Sharon Reed
David Kendrick
Robert Webb
Stephen Hunt
Rhys Cremims
DC Martin Guest
Barry Mooney
Russell Woodland
Lewis Kennington
WIlly McKay
Mark McKay
Jack McKay
Callum Davies
The jury has also been asked if any are Cardiff City fans or have attended Cardiff City matches.
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Mckays sons, interesting
And the man himself as you say interesting.
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Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:35 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:19 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:25 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:33 pm
piledriver64 wrote:Whilst a lot of this will have little bearing on our case, this guy Henderson appears to be in a whole lot of trouble![]()
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:33 pm
piledriver64 wrote:Whilst a lot of this will have little bearing on our case, this guy Henderson appears to be in a whole lot of trouble![]()
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:37 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:41 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:54 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:58 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:20 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:44 pm
castleblue wrote:On April 14, 2020, Henderson received written notification from the CAA inviting him to be interviewed after caution.
On April 27, Henderson’s representatives responded asking for questions to be put in writing.
On April 29, the CAA asked Henderson to respond to various questions in writing. They also informed the defendant he was being investigated for offences under Articles 240 and 250 of the ANO and a caution was set out.
On June 8, 2020, the following responses were received by the CAA.
Henderson accepted that he helped to keep the aircraft airworthy by arranging scheduled maintenance and repairs
On January 18, 2019, Mr Henderson was contacted by a Mr Willie McKay, who he had known for some years and knew hired aircraft from a number of providers. Mr McKay was looking to hire an aircraft for a return trip from Cardiff to Nantes
Henderson organised Mr Ibbotson as the pilot, Henderson was unable to be the pilot himself due to previous commitments. At the time of the relevant flights Henderson did not know the precise status of Mr Ibbotson’s licence and ratings
Henderson was provided with Mr Sala’s details and a copy of his passport by Mr McKay which he forwarded on to Mr Ibbotson so he could complete the relevant paperwork
Mr Ibbotson called Henderson about issues with the aircraft on arrival in Nantes. This led to communication with the aircraft engineer who deals with the maintenance of N264DB, David Smith
Mr McKay contacted Henderson to say the return flight would be later than originally expected; this information was passed on to Mr Ibbotson
Henderson denied being the operator of the aircraft. He sought to suggest this was Mr Ibbotson
Henderson stated that he had no reason to believe that Mr Ibbotson was not qualified or competent to fly the aircraft
Mr Goudie wished to make clear the prosecution does not accept “significant parts” of the account given by the defendant.
Willy McKay mentioned again including reference to providing a copy of ES passport and later changing the time of the return flight. Clearly Mr McKay was involved in organising the flight.
Case adjourned until tomorrow.
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Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:56 pm
Sven wrote:castleblue wrote:On April 14, 2020, Henderson received written notification from the CAA inviting him to be interviewed after caution.
On April 27, Henderson’s representatives responded asking for questions to be put in writing.
On April 29, the CAA asked Henderson to respond to various questions in writing. They also informed the defendant he was being investigated for offences under Articles 240 and 250 of the ANO and a caution was set out.
On June 8, 2020, the following responses were received by the CAA.
Henderson accepted that he helped to keep the aircraft airworthy by arranging scheduled maintenance and repairs
On January 18, 2019, Mr Henderson was contacted by a Mr Willie McKay, who he had known for some years and knew hired aircraft from a number of providers. Mr McKay was looking to hire an aircraft for a return trip from Cardiff to Nantes
Henderson organised Mr Ibbotson as the pilot, Henderson was unable to be the pilot himself due to previous commitments. At the time of the relevant flights Henderson did not know the precise status of Mr Ibbotson’s licence and ratings
Henderson was provided with Mr Sala’s details and a copy of his passport by Mr McKay which he forwarded on to Mr Ibbotson so he could complete the relevant paperwork
Mr Ibbotson called Henderson about issues with the aircraft on arrival in Nantes. This led to communication with the aircraft engineer who deals with the maintenance of N264DB, David Smith
Mr McKay contacted Henderson to say the return flight would be later than originally expected; this information was passed on to Mr Ibbotson
Henderson denied being the operator of the aircraft. He sought to suggest this was Mr Ibbotson
Henderson stated that he had no reason to believe that Mr Ibbotson was not qualified or competent to fly the aircraft
Mr Goudie wished to make clear the prosecution does not accept “significant parts” of the account given by the defendant.
Willy McKay mentioned again including reference to providing a copy of ES passport and later changing the time of the return flight. Clearly Mr McKay was involved in organising the flight.
Case adjourned until tomorrow.
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Thanks again, Gary![]()
That appears to show deflection of the fact but it will all come out in the wash and Henderon will no doubt have a version to tell
Ignoring requests NOT to use Ibbotson will not help his position either
Early signs suggest the CAA have it all covered and the text (or other) messages show the man to have no apparent sympathy other than to himself
Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:40 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:14 pm
Igovernor wrote:Just a few points
1 the court of arbitration are only deciding if Sala was our player or not
2 It is quite possible that they will say he was
3 Looking at what was produced in court today Mr Henderson would be extremely lucky to be found not guilty.
4 The statement regarding "I did not know the licence that Mr Ibbotson had"
5 Henderson knew that Ibbotson did not hold a valid licence.
6 Henderson has been shown to know this with texts and emails.
7 Willie Macay has been shown to be acting as the selling agent for Nantes.
8 Willie macay when acting for nantes should not have been as he had been banned from acting as an agent.
9 If he was acting as an agent but using his sons names, trouble ahead there.
Tue Oct 19, 2021 5:27 pm
wez1927 wrote:Igovernor wrote:Just a few points
1 the court of arbitration are only deciding if Sala was our player or not
2 It is quite possible that they will say he was
3 Looking at what was produced in court today Mr Henderson would be extremely lucky to be found not guilty.
4 The statement regarding "I did not know the licence that Mr Ibbotson had"
5 Henderson knew that Ibbotson did not hold a valid licence.
6 Henderson has been shown to know this with texts and emails.
7 Willie Macay has been shown to be acting as the selling agent for Nantes.
8 Willie macay when acting for nantes should not have been as he had been banned from acting as an agent.
9 If he was acting as an agent but using his sons names, trouble ahead there.
Got the feeling it doesn't matter going forward if sala was our player or not ,mccay was the arranger of the flight clearly and was the selling agent for nantes ,
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:21 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:31 pm
CantonStandBob wrote:The one thing that is most prominent in this trial so far is the lack of a s**t that Henderson seems to give for peoples lives. He endangered Sala to save a few quid and knowing they had both died his first reaction was almost like it was an inconvenience to him and asking people to cover for him. He may be an old man but he deserves a really harsh punishment, he is an absolute lowlife.
With regards to the Cardiff City side of the whole sad affair I can't see how they can be made to pay the whole £15m seeing as McKay was acting (presumably) as Nantes agent when he contacted Henderson to arrange a flight. I get the feeling a lot more will be revealed in the next few days and it will put us in a more favourable light in the media than this whole tragic event has so far.
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:08 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:10 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:11 pm
Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:11 pm
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:38 am
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:28 am
castleblue wrote:Owner of the plane Ms Keely is the first witness to be questioned. She says that she was made aware by the CAA of issues with the plane on 2 occasions when flown by Mr Ibbotson and sent an email to Henderson saying Ibbotson was NOT to fly the plane again. A month later Ibbotson flew the plane and the passenger was Ms Keely sister. Under cross examination she says she did know the pilot was Ibbotson but did not contact Henderson again to reinforce her instruction that Ibbotson was not to fly the plane.
Her final answer was as far as she was concerned Ibbotson was not to fly the plane BUT she clearly looked the other way when he did on at least one occasions.
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