“ Swansea City FC have just announced “

So under 18's are exempt, the group with the highest rate of infections, rising all the time, so they can go anywhere and pass on covid, unbelievable

So under 18's are exempt, the group with the highest rate of infections, rising all the time, so they can go anywhere and pass on covid, unbelievable

and there lies the contradiction.

Whether I agree or disagree, I can understand why the government think jabs and passes may help, but the exemption of under 18's shows how ineffective passes will be for events allowing u18's entry.

May work for nightclubs but not football crowds.

For me this Looney Left Welsh Labour Government has overnight created just two classes amongst the Welsh people, the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. For me this represents a massive overreach of Government powers as on the one hand it gives people the "Option" of taking up the vaccine but does not make it mandatory and on the other it says not having taken the vaccine option you WILL be treated differently.

Now for anyone who decided against taking up the vaccine option they have effectively had their civil liberty to freedom of movement reduced compared to someone who has been vaccinated. How is that fair? What this new legislation effectively does is say if you haven't had the vaccine you are a risk of spreading the virus, however even if you have had the vaccine it will not stop you catching it or stop you spreading it, the vaccine should just protect you from the worst affects. What the legislation fails to do is consider the "What If" you haven't had the vaccine but have had covid and recovered you will be carrying the antibodies. The ONS believe that throughout the UK 9 out of 10 (90%) adults are now carrying the antibodies and the World Health Organisation believes that "Herd Immunity" is reached when 95% of the population is carrying the anti bodies.

Drakeford and his looney left cronies have ignored ALL of this to inflict their "Control Freak" mantra on a small % of the adult population but effectively making it more difficult for everyone who wants to go to a nightclub, theatre or football match. It also places additional costs on companies in Wales, like Cardiff and Swansea City, who will now have to put measures in place to check vaccination or negative test status for everyone who enters their stadiums, other Championship teams based in England are free of these additional costs. How is that fair.

I have got my vaccine passport the one that says "Valid in England" and it was a bit of a fuss but I have a PDF copy which is saved on my phone. I did this because I thought how will the wifi signal around the stadium cope with 1000's of people trying to log on to the app, I really do see chaos on the horizon.

I hope the UK Government step in here and take the Welsh Government to court, as the did with the Scottish Government, because making decisions on civil liberties which are different to the Sovereign Parliament of the UK is surely outside the legislative competence of the shower in Cardiff Bay.

I had both jabs in the EU and have an EU pass so will be interesting to see how that pans out at the turnstiles

Really strange that various sources (BBC, WOL) are explaining about the pass in Wales and offering a link….. which gives you a pass valid in England.

Andrew, reading on they are confirming that same NHS App will be updated to include God's country over the next few days, so keep an eye out...

The life of the Vaccine Passport is limited but each 'log-in' will allow the App to be updated, so no need to allow it to run out

Great news and allows as we (well, most) try to move forward in a safe, healthy and responsible way

Really strange that various sources (BBC, WOL) are explaining about the pass in Wales and offering a link….. which gives you a pass valid in England.

Andrew, reading on they are confirming that same NHS App will be updated to include God's country over the next few days, so keep an eye out...

The life of the Vaccine Passport is limited but each 'log-in' will allow the App to be updated, so no need to allow it to run out

Great news and allows as we (well, most) try to move forward in a safe, healthy and responsible way

Thanks Chris.

I had both jabs in the EU and have an EU pass so will be interesting to see how that pans out at the turnstiles

Your EU pass is acceptable at UK Borders so HAS to be acceptable to enter a football match in Wales. Drakeford and his cronies may say NHS Covid Passes but anything that the UK Government has approved to clear borders is fine.

Just shows how badly thought out this legislation is.

Regardless of vaccination status I won't attend any games whilst this tyranny is in place. Looks like away games only for me until England adopts the madness too.

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

1. UNNECESSARY
There is no evidence that covid passes will improve public health. The only parliamentary committee to analyse Covid passes in detail, the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee (PACAC), concluded that there is “no justification for them in the science and none in logic”.

A vaccine ID does not tell you that an individual does not have covid or cannot spread covid. Vaccination status primarily tells the individual about their own risk of illness from the virus.


2. DISCRIMINATORY
The effect of Covid passes would be to socially and economically exclude people based on private medical data, and deny them basic freedoms. In doing so, some of the most marginalised in society would suffer discrimination.

Under equality law, it is unlawful to discriminate against people with ‘protected characteristics’ - which include age, disability, pregnancy and religion or belief.


3. COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE
A recent major study from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine found that Covid passes would harden vaccine rejection among many people in the UK, particularly those in marginalised groups. Far from encouraging uptake, coercive measures increase uncertainty, breed distrust and deepen alienation.

In fact, coercing people to have vaccines can be counter-productive if it lowers trust and raises suspicions.


4. CHECKPOINT SOCIETY
The UK has a proud history of opposition to ID cards. We are not a papers-carrying country. But covid passes would turn us into a two-tier, checkpoint society where we each have to show an app or certificate simply in order to enjoy public life. This would be a serious break from our long-guarded democratic traditions and would disadvantage marginalised people.


5. SURVEILLANCE STATE
The combination of apps with sensitive health data and the subversion of everyday businesses and events into checkpoints could constitute the biggest expansion of the surveillance state ever seen in the UK.


6. MISSION CREEP
Covid Status Certificates would likely begin with limitations meaning they could only be used for covid-19 – but after the huge cost and reorganisation of society, this would never last. Covid passes would inevitably expand to be used for other purposes. The rationale underpinning the proposal would be applied to other vaccines, seasonal influenza and other health issues – and potentially much more. It is quite possible that biological risk scores could expand and morph over time.

7. IRREVERSIBLE
It is also likely that the first proposals for Covid Status Certificates will claim to be time-limited – but this would never last. If we accept covid certificates, we will never be able to get rid of digital health passes. Almost every promise about ‘temporary’ measures over the past year has been broken as they have endured and expanded. As the saying goes, nothing is so permanent as a temporary government programme.


8. DIVISIVE
This isn’t even as simple as a division between vaccinated and unvaccinated people. As more research emerges about the effectiveness of different vaccines against different coronavirus strains, it is feasible that covid passes could be used to put controls on people who received less effective vaccines or who require boosters.


9. AUTONOMY
Bodily autonomy is an important aspect of the right to privacy. Compulsory vaccination, as an involuntary medical treatment, amounts to an interference with the right to a private life (Solomakhin v Ukraine). We believe individuals have the right to make their own choices about their own bodies.

UK laws generally respect medical consent and mandatory vaccines are prohibited under the Public Health Act. However, vaccine passports would clearly cause people to feel coerced, rather than supported, to receive vaccines. They would have a similar effect to mandatory vaccine policies, which are typically imposed by exclusion or penalties for those who decline vaccines. The penalty of reduced liberties for otherwise healthy individuals who refuse medical treatment or testing would mark a serious change in our public health system.

Credit - https://bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/campaign ... passports/

[quote="mjw6150"]9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

It's his personal opinion based on nothing but self-interest, mate. Not an once of thought for the bigger picture...

I also note his comment that he won't attend another game under this 'tyranny' but will go to away games

Contradictory at best and one of those 'excuses' rather than 'reasons' referred to the other day

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

It's his personal opinion based on nothing but self-interest, mate. Not an once of thought for the bigger picture...

I also note his comment that he won't attend another game under this 'tyranny' but will go to away games

Contradictory at best and one of those 'excuses' rather than 'reasons' referred to the other day

The only selfish people in all of this are those that want restrictions on other people for decisions they choose to make about their own bodies - just so they feel safe - when the measures being taken won't make anyone a bit safer. Most cases in under 18s who don't have to use the passes. The unvaccinated will be the safest ones in the ground given they have taken a test, I wonder how many positive vaccinated will be there...not that it matters anyway as the games are outside where there is a miniscule risk.

In case you hadn't noticed, our away games are (mostly, 22/23) in England which have not (yet) introduced COVID passes. Once they do, those are out of question as well.

Some of us have principles, you will thank us one day when we are defending the freedom of those who have freely given it away.

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

I agree that people should be able to make their own choice, I am not even saying that I haven't had it myself. Regardless of that my principles remain the same, it is wrong and they should be opposed at all costs.

Covid Passes remove choice by introducing coercion to make people get the vaccine. Government ministers in England, Scotland and Wales have openly admitted that is the only purpose for them.

If you believe in choice you should oppose the passes.

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

I accept completely that this vaccination decision is and has to be a matter of personal choice but what if you have decided against taking the vaccine and got covid and have recovered. Your NHS records will show this but this legislation does not recognise those non vaccinated who have recovered and they will carry the antibodies nature gave them to fight the infection off. On the basis that those non vaccinated but recovered offer NO greater risk of passing the virus on compared to those who have been vaccinated, why are they being treated differently to those who have been vaccinated?

To put some perspective on this being non vaccinated but having recovered from covid will qualify you for travel and a covid pass in Ireland.

I have been double jabbed and around November will get a booster and I have my vaccine pass but I don't believe this legislation is fair to those who declined the vaccine but have the antibodies by recovering from the virus, and there are a lot of people in this category.

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

I accept completely that this vaccination decision is and has to be a matter of personal choice but what if you have decided against taking the vaccine and got covid and have recovered. Your NHS records will show this but this legislation does not recognise those non vaccinated who have recovered and they will carry the antibodies nature gave them to fight the infection off. On the basis that those non vaccinated but recovered offer NO greater risk of passing the virus on compared to those who have been vaccinated, why are they being treated differently to those who have been vaccinated?

To put some perspective on this being non vaccinated but having recovered from covid will qualify you for travel and a covid pass in Ireland.

I have been double jabbed and around November will get a booster and I have my vaccine pass but I don't believe this legislation is fair to those who declined the vaccine but have the antibodies by recovering from the virus, and there are a lot of people in this category.

You are correct, natural immunity is highly likely to offer stronger and longer lasting protection.

Yet another reason these passes are total Nazi bunk.

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

I accept completely that this vaccination decision is and has to be a matter of personal choice but what if you have decided against taking the vaccine and got covid and have recovered. Your NHS records will show this but this legislation does not recognise those non vaccinated who have recovered and they will carry the antibodies nature gave them to fight the infection off. On the basis that those non vaccinated but recovered offer NO greater risk of passing the virus on compared to those who have been vaccinated, why are they being treated differently to those who have been vaccinated?

To put some perspective on this being non vaccinated but having recovered from covid will qualify you for travel and a covid pass in Ireland.

I have been double jabbed and around November will get a booster and I have my vaccine pass but I don't believe this legislation is fair to those who declined the vaccine but have the antibodies by recovering from the virus, and there are a lot of people in this category.

You are correct, natural immunity is highly likely to offer stronger and longer lasting protection.

Yet another reason these passes are total Nazi bunk.

Nazi is a bit strong but looney left absolutely.

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

It's his personal opinion based on nothing but self-interest, mate. Not an once of thought for the bigger picture...

I also note his comment that he won't attend another game under this 'tyranny' but will go to away games

Contradictory at best and one of those 'excuses' rather than 'reasons' referred to the other day

Chris you are dead right here, he is calling us selfish when the only selfish ones are those who do not care about peoples health, and refuse the vaccine, as i said his choice but put up with any restrictions. Anyone can have covid and be
asymptomatic, so on the chance that i could be one of those, means I have had my two jabs and will be having the booster. Although living in england now and have no mandatory face mask wearing indoors I still wear a mask, among many others not just to protect others but also myself, as there are still many out there who do not give a toss about anyone but themselves. I hope he enjoys his away games

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

It's his personal opinion based on nothing but self-interest, mate. Not an once of thought for the bigger picture...

I also note his comment that he won't attend another game under this 'tyranny' but will go to away games

Contradictory at best and one of those 'excuses' rather than 'reasons' referred to the other day

Chris you are dead right here, he is calling us selfish when the only selfish ones are those who do not care about peoples health, and refuse the vaccine, as i said his choice but put up with any restrictions. Anyone can have covid and be
asymptomatic, so on the chance that i could be one of those, means I have had my two jabs and will be having the booster. Although living in england now and have no mandatory face mask wearing indoors I still wear a mask, among many others not just to protect others but also myself, as there are still many out there who do not give a toss about anyone but themselves. I hope he enjoys his away games

Nazis as well now, Rog...

Sadly, it seems some are entrenched in their negativity and clearly want what they (only) think is best for themselves rather than seeing a bigger picture...

This Government (and others around the world) is not out to 'get' the public; they are trying to avert a deadly pandemic and to a large extent they have made a difference, albeit that some people are still passing away

What I query is where do the Covid and (rduced over the last 2 years) Flu rates cross over...?

Of all death occurrences between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) compared with 13,619 deaths due to pneumonia and 394 deaths due to influenza

In a bad flu year with no Covid to compare, on average around 30,000 people in the UK die from flu and pneumonia

Clearly Covid is/was higher but the difference between Flu figures is substantial to say the least

Coincidence or not? I know what I believe...

For those interested -
Just ordered a Wales Covid paper pass (0300 303 5667)
They confirmed to me that the pass that is currently available that says ‘valid for events in England’ IS also valid for Wales.

For those interested -
Just ordered a Wales Covid paper pass (0300 303 5667)
They confirmed to me that the pass that is currently available that says ‘valid for events in England’ IS also valid for Wales.

Thanks, Andrew; that's great to hear and will be a relief to many

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

It's his personal opinion based on nothing but self-interest, mate. Not an once of thought for the bigger picture...

I also note his comment that he won't attend another game under this 'tyranny' but will go to away games

Contradictory at best and one of those 'excuses' rather than 'reasons' referred to the other day

Chris you are dead right here, he is calling us selfish when the only selfish ones are those who do not care about peoples health, and refuse the vaccine, as i said his choice but put up with any restrictions. Anyone can have covid and be
asymptomatic, so on the chance that i could be one of those, means I have had my two jabs and will be having the booster. Although living in england now and have no mandatory face mask wearing indoors I still wear a mask, among many others not just to protect others but also myself, as there are still many out there who do not give a toss about anyone but themselves. I hope he enjoys his away games

The vaccine does not stop transmission therefore is ineffective at protecting other people.

Vaccine manufacturers even state that they are not designed to stop transmission in the introductory documents for the vaccines.

Masks are also proven to be basically ineffective as well at best they have 11 % efficacy and at worst 0% and that is from a study trying to support their use!


Vaccine passports do very little to protect others - in fact the Welsh Government actually allowed their scientific advice from TAC to be released online.

https://gov.wales/sites/default/files/p ... sports.pdf

The document clearly states:

“Even with careful planning and application there may not be a net benefit to
the introduction of immunity certification.”

“Levels of infection in the community will have an important impact on the level
of risk and any effectiveness of certification, with effectiveness likely to be
lower when infection rates are high.”

“Given the limited evidence and uncertainty around outcomes, SAGE has
previously recommended use of pilot studies to understand the impact and
practicalities of certification,”

“While evidence on vaccine uptake is limited, two recently published studies
have suggested use of vaccine passports could backfire”


Stop believing the propaganda and start questioning and looking into these things yourself.

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

It's his personal opinion based on nothing but self-interest, mate. Not an once of thought for the bigger picture...

I also note his comment that he won't attend another game under this 'tyranny' but will go to away games

Contradictory at best and one of those 'excuses' rather than 'reasons' referred to the other day

Chris you are dead right here, he is calling us selfish when the only selfish ones are those who do not care about peoples health, and refuse the vaccine, as i said his choice but put up with any restrictions. Anyone can have covid and be
asymptomatic, so on the chance that i could be one of those, means I have had my two jabs and will be having the booster. Although living in england now and have no mandatory face mask wearing indoors I still wear a mask, among many others not just to protect others but also myself, as there are still many out there who do not give a toss about anyone but themselves. I hope he enjoys his away games

Nazis as well now, Rog...

Sadly, it seems some are entrenched in their negativity and clearly want what they (only) think is best for themselves rather than seeing a bigger picture...

This Government (and others around the world) is not out to 'get' the public; they are trying to avert a deadly pandemic and to a large extent they have made a difference, albeit that some people are still passing away

What I query is where do the Covid and (rduced over the last 2 years) Flu rates cross over...?

Of all death occurrences between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) compared with 13,619 deaths due to pneumonia and 394 deaths due to influenza

In a bad flu year with no Covid to compare, on average around 30,000 people in the UK die from flu and pneumonia

Clearly Covid is/was higher but the difference between Flu figures is substantial to say the least

Coincidence or not? I know what I believe...

Don't write in bad faith, I did not call anyone a Nazi, I called the policy a Nazi, perhaps flippantly but a papers please society has some very bad predecessors.

(btw a bad flu year saw over 50,000 die in 2018 so your figures are wrong too)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... o2017final

9 REASONS WHY COVID PASSES MUST BE STOPPED

Have the vaccine or don't have it everbody has a choice, if you do not want it, that is fine, that is your choice, but be prepared to put up with any restrictions that not having it entails.
These retrictions of course should not apply to people who cannot have it for medical reasons, and medical reasons only, but they would still need to have tests to show that they do not have covid, before entering venue's!

It's his personal opinion based on nothing but self-interest, mate. Not an once of thought for the bigger picture...

I also note his comment that he won't attend another game under this 'tyranny' but will go to away games

Contradictory at best and one of those 'excuses' rather than 'reasons' referred to the other day

Chris you are dead right here, he is calling us selfish when the only selfish ones are those who do not care about peoples health, and refuse the vaccine, as i said his choice but put up with any restrictions. Anyone can have covid and be
asymptomatic, so on the chance that i could be one of those, means I have had my two jabs and will be having the booster. Although living in england now and have no mandatory face mask wearing indoors I still wear a mask, among many others not just to protect others but also myself, as there are still many out there who do not give a toss about anyone but themselves. I hope he enjoys his away games

Nazis as well now, Rog...

Sadly, it seems some are entrenched in their negativity and clearly want what they (only) think is best for themselves rather than seeing a bigger picture...

This Government (and others around the world) is not out to 'get' the public; they are trying to avert a deadly pandemic and to a large extent they have made a difference, albeit that some people are still passing away

What I query is where do the Covid and (rduced over the last 2 years) Flu rates cross over...?

Of all death occurrences between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to the coronavirus (COVID-19) compared with 13,619 deaths due to pneumonia and 394 deaths due to influenza

In a bad flu year with no Covid to compare, on average around 30,000 people in the UK die from flu and pneumonia

Clearly Covid is/was higher but the difference between Flu figures is substantial to say the least

Coincidence or not? I know what I believe...

Don't write in bad faith, I did not call anyone a Nazi, I called the policy a Nazi, perhaps flippantly but a papers please society has some very bad predecessors.

(btw a bad flu year saw over 50,000 die in 2018 so your figures are wrong too)

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... o2017final

I'm not wrong; the stats I read were clear that there has been an imbalanced reduction in Flu deaths whilst Covid deaths have been counted, so in an ironic way, we are agreeing on something

Calling the policy 'Nazi' is equally as poor IMHO (that's all it is) because (again IMHO) you are wrong in your assumption that all Government is 'out to get us' when that is simply not true

Notwithstanding there are areas we would all like to see a different approach but an entrenched position doesn't allow for change, compromise or real debate, does it?