One for the anti vaxxers

I have the flu jab every year without problem although I might be one of the lucky ones. It's personal choice.

However, I am always amazed reading that people state a 'sore arm' as one of the side affects of the flu vaccine. A sore arm is not really surprising considering they use a needle to inject the vaccine

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

As my Mum used to say, if you fall over and break both your legs don't run crying to me

No way would the UK government make people take a vaccine, it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be!

I agree totally Bluebina - "......it will be up to us all to make our own decision and face the consequences of their own actions, which is as it should be"!

I will take the vaccine and feel it is up to every individual as to whether they want it or not. What does get my gander though is that I have yet to hear from an anti-vaxxer what does he/she see as their alternative to taking the vaccine? If the total % of the population who decide not to take the vaccine is insignificant(less than 25%) - in which case the Government will not see that group as any hindrance to achieving "herd immunity" and will leave them to their own destinies - the only alternative to the vaccine for that group will then be an ongoing daily game of Russian roulette as to whether or not they contract the virus and develop natural immunity. If on the other hand, the group is a significant % of the population and a hindrance to developing herd immunity then I feel the Government will choose to take action. I also feel that the latter is an extremely unlikely scenario as I believe when it comes to it, the % of the population who will refuse the vaccination will be less than 20% as there are many ways of skinning a cat and the Government will use them all before pushing directly for obligatory vaccination.

I have a friend who along with his wife and father in law, caught the virus some months ago. He works as a scientist in Switzerland. I asked him how were the current vaccines for Covid developed so quickly, what were his views on he safety of the vaccines, which if any would he take? This is what he said for those interested (good read - simple explanations):

ARE THESE VACCINES SAFE EVEN THOUGH MORE QUICKLY DEVELOPED THAN PREVIOUSLY

The technology used in developing these latest vaccines against Covid-19 is quite different to that used in the past. In the past they relied on using “weakened” LIVE viruses in a vaccine to stimulate the immune system. There was therefore a reasonable chance early on that people could have a bad reaction or even catch the virus itself, if the LIVE virus injected wasn’t “weakened” enough! So, it took a hell of a long time both to determine how weakened the virus should be in the vaccine so as not to infect the recipient and what amount was needed to be injected to immunise the recipient against infection. This type of method is still used but it is not fast enough to keep up with mutating viruses. Now that we understand the genetics of the viral attack mechanisms, we can create only the bits of the viruses that create the immune response (i.e. the “spike” protein of the Covid-19 virus) and avoid adding the parts of the virus to a vaccine that would do damage to the recipient, by infecting them with the virus.

Covid-19 will kill a huge number of people if left unchecked by an effective vaccine. Armed with the knowledge we have now of the RNA replication of the spike protein, then be assured that an unvaccinated individual with no natural immunity would be vastly more likely to die from becoming infected with the virus than from anything the vaccine is likely to cause.

As regards our current lack of a cure/100% effective vaccine which prevents the common cold (and the flu), these mutate so fast that the old methods of creating effective vaccines - even the first stage - are so slow that they can never hope to keep up or prevent these illnesses. The very recent innovative RNA method of developing a vaccine CAN do this and do it in months, not years. We have to understand that most of us would not have survived until now without polio and smallpox vaccines.

We also need to protect our families, friends and the general population from cross-infection. I have immunity now as I have just done a blood test for antibodies and 6 months after being VERY ill with Covid-19, I still have them. I also have all the secondary immune resistance that goes with them. But I paid a terrible price. Both myself, my wife and her father contracted the virus. My wife’s father died from it and my wife and I survived what was a dreadful and frightening experience, and VERY painful. If I did not have natural immunity, I would have the vaccine as soon as offered and will do so if my natural immunity does not last.

Of course, whether to have the vaccine is still a personal choice, but the statistics for safe use are very much in our favour.

THE OXFORD VACCINE – APPRAISAL

The Oxford vaccine had a bizarre start in that the personnel involved in running the program initially miscalculated the dosage given to the first triallists. They only used half of the amount needed. This group suffered so few reactions (there are always some mild reactions following any vaccination) that they guessed they had made a mistake on dosage and on checking that was confirmed that they had only been given half the prescribed dose! The rest of the group of volunteers all got the 2 full doses a month apart and the ones who had received the half dose initially then had a second full dose a month later. By the end of the trials, the volunteers who received the FULL dose twice were found to have been protected to 62% but those who received the half dose followed by a full dose, got to 90% protection. The Oxford vaccine will therefore be given to the public as an initial “half” dose followed by a full dose, one month later and is confidently expected to achieve a protection rate close to that claimed by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

In addition, the Oxford vaccine has certain advantages over the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines because unlike those vaccines (both of which must be stored at extremely low temperatures), the Oxford vaccine can be stored in a normal fridge and is therefore easier to logistically handle and deliver, as it doesn’t need specialist refrigeration equipment in transportation vehicles or at point of vaccination. As it also requires one and a half doses compared to the others’ two doses; for a given amount of vaccine, the Oxford vaccine vaccinates more people than the others. Therefore, the Oxford vaccine is less costly to buy, transport, store and administer. Lucky guys. Cock-ups can be profitable!!

That is a really good read, and explains the points well for those that haven't been researching the information on vaccines

I find it frustrating that many of the people that hate lockdowns and say they are concerned about the economical effects, the health issues like mental health, suicides and delays in cancer treatment, and all the other terrible side effects of lockdowns, and then say but I'm not prepared to take the vaccine to end them

the frustration is the sort of people that are terrified beyond reason over covid would also be the ones most afraid about taking a rushed vaccine this time last year... their reason for now being unreasonable about this is that they are more unreasonable about that......and its the lesser of 2 evils.... November 2019..nobody but nobody would be suggesting these vaccines were safe or legal let alone encouraging people to take them...
as for people mentioning stats... seriously ? meaningful stats re drugs are based on large amounts of info taken over a length of time..
bottom line... seems manufacturers will be exempt from liability...... why ?

God knows what you are trying to say?

People who will take a vaccine for a new virus wouldn't take one last year when the virus hadn't even been created?

How can you take a vaccine for a virus that doesn't exist yet but might appear in the future, I said the best brains in the World were working on it but even they can't make vaccines for not yet developed vaccines

its not that you did not understand...more a case of not liking the truth much..

Read it back it's nonsense!

I'll take the vaccine because it's been proved safe and it will stop me catching the virus and potentially killing my mother and infecting the rest of my family, and anyone else I may come into contact with.

If you want to do your bit you have three choices, remain isolated until the rest us have had the vaccine, have the vaccine, or go out and deliberately catch the vaccine and then self isolate for 14 days at least, or you could carry on as normal without care?

I have the flu jab every year without problem although I might be one of the lucky ones. It's personal choice.

However, I am always amazed reading that people state a 'sore arm' as one of the side affects of the flu vaccine. A sore arm is not really surprising considering they use a needle to inject the vaccine

Exactly I didn't even notice she'd done it!!!

Just have the bloody vaccination and help save both your own lives and those of others...

Many of those dying, you will never meet but that alone doesn't make it okay to be complicit in their deaths through ignorance and/or inaction when all the science is backing the vaccine

I know there's no shame amongst many on here (some of you are first year students ignoring the 'Covid' rules with incredible contempt) but get a grip and do the decent thing; probably for the first time in your short lives!

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

As I stated in an earlier post, in terms of getting as many of the public as possible to have the vaccine, the Government will have "many ways to skin a cat" long before any decision is needed to be made to make vaccination obligatory - and I'm afraid such indirect actions like what will happen to this lady; i.e. to basically EXCLUDE unvaccinated people; will provide those ways and I suspect we will see more and more incidences of similar consequential exclusions for unvaccinated people as time progresses. I suspect that such exclusions will then be lifted for each person as that individual gets vaccinated.

I agree that it is hard to understand that a woman who worked through this pandemic caring for people in a care home will lose her job because her free choice is not be vaccinated. However, to balance that I find it equally hard to understand why that same woman who should know the consequences of an outbreak of Covid in her care home, is comfortable with her free choice to remain an obvious and clear danger to those same and future care home residents by not being vaccinated?

Before anyone asks me is it ok then to "blackmail" people in this way to take the vaccine, I would simply ask would a caring and sane relative refuse a loved one, who is in an illness caused coma in ICU from being given a life saving drug - and impartial and fully analysed results of these vaccine have/will show them to be life savers - just because their comatose loved one can't have the freedom of choice as to whether they want that drug or not? I would hope not!!
At the end of the day this is all about the "Greater Good" - yes anyone is entitled to exercise their choice but all actions have consequences. This virus is a mindless killer - I've seen it in action close up - and if left unchecked will ultimately wipe out mankind. Therefore, please feel free to make your choice and refuse the vaccine but in doing so please accept in all fairness that you will remain a potential nurturing/infecting ground for this horrible virus. Therefore, you must also accept that society as a whole may well wish to exercise its holistic right to freedom of choice and put consequential measures in place for the greater good.

if left unchecked it will ultimately wipe out mankind...

jesus.. what cult are you in ?

I will not even bother to explain why Covid-19 unchecked would ultimately lead to the end of mankind as you appear to have little comprehension of the danger this virus presents. I must assume that your lapse into trying taking the piss and your total and abject failure to offer (as usual with people like you) a sensible, realistic and safe alternative to the vaccine allied to your apparent inability/unwillingness to accept reasoned argument, must mean that secretly you will be having the vaccine. I don't think I need to try to convince you any more - you must be one of us already - albeit secretly!!

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

As I stated in an earlier post, in terms of getting as many of the public as possible to have the vaccine, the Government will have "many ways to skin a cat" long before any decision is needed to be made to make vaccination obligatory - and I'm afraid such indirect actions like what will happen to this lady; i.e. to basically EXCLUDE unvaccinated people; will provide those ways and I suspect we will see more and more incidences of similar consequential exclusions for unvaccinated people as time progresses. I suspect that such exclusions will then be lifted for each person as that individual gets vaccinated.

I agree that it is hard to understand that a woman who worked through this pandemic caring for people in a care home will lose her job because her free choice is not be vaccinated. However, to balance that I find it equally hard to understand why that same woman who should know the consequences of an outbreak of Covid in her care home, is comfortable with her free choice to remain an obvious and clear danger to those same and future care home residents by not being vaccinated?

Before anyone asks me is it ok then to "blackmail" people in this way to take the vaccine, I would simply ask would a caring and sane relative refuse a loved one, who is in an illness caused coma in ICU from being given a life saving drug - and impartial and fully analysed results of these vaccine have/will show them to be life savers - just because their comatose loved one can't have the freedom of choice as to whether they want that drug or not? I would hope not!!
At the end of the day this is all about the "Greater Good" - yes anyone is entitled to exercise their choice but all actions have consequences. This virus is a mindless killer - I've seen it in action close up - and if left unchecked will ultimately wipe out mankind. Therefore, please feel free to make your choice and refuse the vaccine but in doing so please accept in all fairness that you will remain a potential nurturing/infecting ground for this horrible virus. Therefore, you must also accept that society as a whole may well wish to exercise its holistic right to freedom of choice and put consequential measures in place for the greater good.

if left unchecked it will ultimately wipe out mankind...

jesus.. what cult are you in ?

I will not even bother to explain why Covid-19 unchecked would ultimately lead to the end of mankind as you appear to have little comprehension of the danger this virus presents. I must assume that your lapse into trying taking the piss and your total and abject failure to offer (as usual with people like you) a sensible, realistic and safe alternative to the vaccine allied to your apparent inability/unwillingness to accept reasoned argument, must mean that secretly you will be having the vaccine. I don't think I need to try to convince you any more - you must be one of us already - albeit secretly!!

He keeps fishing because people keep biting. Just ignore him & your life will be much happier.

https://apple.news/Acjjq7dEPRLSiS5pNEGasHg

Explains why it was put together so quickly.

well if your looking to comfort yourself , you will read plenty of articles like this..
anyone with any sort of vested interest is going to be saying the same...

personally i believe the science thats existed for decades for vaccines and drugs regarding tests and trials......the science , procedures and laws that did not have huge pressure from governments to save their economies and enormous amounts of money at stake for pharmaceutical companies ... where it was purely a choice between the correct and safe way . or this chuck one together and cut as many corners as you want way... you can not compress time mate... and even the companies making these magic portion claims are admitting that the minute it gets rolled out that those on their trial progs who are on the placebo will then obviously be offered the real drug...cutting short the trial..

loke everything else this should be a freedom of choice thing.... without some jumped up in their own heads gestapo types making up punishments...

People have the freedom to turn down a vaccine.

Society has the freedom to protect its people by restricting the privileges of those who won’t take the vaccine to eliminate this horrific disease.

Society is made of individuals. Remove the liberty of the individual, you remove the freedom of a society.

Our society is based on the fundamental concept of negative vs. positive rights, which protect the sanctity of individual freedoms.

You can argue for the removal of those rights by all means, but you cant do so in the name of a society that has freedom to act, because in doing so it instantly ceases to be a free society.

A pipe dreamers and an over simplistic view.Soz if you find that offensive but I can't think of a Nation thats a working example of what your saying.

Nothing there to take offence to so absolutely none taken

The point made was simple for the sake of brevity (something I admit I'm not often known for) but it is built on a much more complex argument - and not mine but one that was has stood the test of time for centuries until now.

If you really want to get more complex around this the supposition that a free society is by necessity dependent on the liberty of the individual, that assertion can be supported by drawing on on Habeus Corpus, UK bill of rights, John Locke's Two Treatises of Government and the conversation around natural rights in the second of these, the various writings of John Adams, that formed the foundation of the US Consitution, the various writings of Immanuel Kant from around the same era, the US Bill of Rights and the writings of the founding fathers around the time and John Stuart Mill's On Liberty and his discussion on the Tyranny of the Masses just off the top of my head. I'm sure there is plenty more I'm overlooking.

So it is far from a simplistic concept, even if I boiled it down to the very purest essence.

As an example of one nation, you only need to get to the second paragraph of the US Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

The liberty of the individual is baked into the very foundations of the fabric of their society, as is the fact that the government derives its powers from those it governs and the role of government is to protect the unalienable rights, including the liberty of its citizens.

You might disagree with it, which is fair enough, absolutely your position to hold and I respect that. But you can't argue it is a pipedream when it is the very foundation of a nation of one of the most powerful and successful nations on the planet.

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

As I stated in an earlier post, in terms of getting as many of the public as possible to have the vaccine, the Government will have "many ways to skin a cat" long before any decision is needed to be made to make vaccination obligatory - and I'm afraid such indirect actions like what will happen to this lady; i.e. to basically EXCLUDE unvaccinated people; will provide those ways and I suspect we will see more and more incidences of similar consequential exclusions for unvaccinated people as time progresses. I suspect that such exclusions will then be lifted for each person as that individual gets vaccinated.

I agree that it is hard to understand that a woman who worked through this pandemic caring for people in a care home will lose her job because her free choice is not be vaccinated. However, to balance that I find it equally hard to understand why that same woman who should know the consequences of an outbreak of Covid in her care home, is comfortable with her free choice to remain an obvious and clear danger to those same and future care home residents by not being vaccinated?

Before anyone asks me is it ok then to "blackmail" people in this way to take the vaccine, I would simply ask would a caring and sane relative refuse a loved one, who is in an illness caused coma in ICU from being given a life saving drug - and impartial and fully analysed results of these vaccine have/will show them to be life savers - just because their comatose loved one can't have the freedom of choice as to whether they want that drug or not? I would hope not!!
At the end of the day this is all about the "Greater Good" - yes anyone is entitled to exercise their choice but all actions have consequences. This virus is a mindless killer - I've seen it in action close up - and if left unchecked will ultimately wipe out mankind. Therefore, please feel free to make your choice and refuse the vaccine but in doing so please accept in all fairness that you will remain a potential nurturing/infecting ground for this horrible virus. Therefore, you must also accept that society as a whole may well wish to exercise its holistic right to freedom of choice and put consequential measures in place for the greater good.

if left unchecked it will ultimately wipe out mankind...

jesus.. what cult are you in ?

I will not even bother to explain why Covid-19 unchecked would ultimately lead to the end of mankind as you appear to have little comprehension of the danger this virus presents. I must assume that your lapse into trying taking the piss and your total and abject failure to offer (as usual with people like you) a sensible, realistic and safe alternative to the vaccine allied to your apparent inability/unwillingness to accept reasoned argument, must mean that secretly you will be having the vaccine. I don't think I need to try to convince you any more - you must be one of us already - albeit secretly!!

Blemmy, in all respect, if you're going to use such hyperbolic language, the onus is on you to put forward the reasoning why a virus with a survival rate of 99%, a virus that has claimed less than a 50th of the total number of lives of Spanish Flu pandemic (without taking into consideration the respective population increase since then), a virus that has is only 2 to 4 times more deadly than standard influenza (which are at historically low numbers in 2020, with the inference many Covid deaths were in fact influenza) will be the disease that finally brings the end of all mankind.

It's a massive, massive leap to make far beyond even the worst of the sensationalist nonsense that gets pushed out by MSM and the direct inverse of what I assume you would dismiss as conspiracy theory nonsense around the vaccine.

As saddened as I am to hear you've had direct experience of it, I truly am sorry for any loss you have suffered, any such argument that could support massive claims of 'end of mankind' must be based firmly in global statistics and not anecdotal evidence, as painful as such anecdotes will be to those close to the individual tragedies.

Many of us with 'little comprehension of the danger the virus presents' have arrived at our positions because we have looked, carefully and thoroughly at the data and not the headlines, and whichever way we dice it, COVID19 is nowhere near the extinction-level event your suggesting.

Even for the very most vulnerable, the survival rate remains 92.2%.

Even when we factor in those most vulnerable into the mass population statistics (so skewing the data in favour of your position not mine) the survival rate is an incredible 99.4%.

COVID19 is not even remotely comparable to the Spanish Flu which we happened over a hundred years ago and we're still here. Indeed in the last 100 years I'd say we've not only survived but we've flourished.

With all this taken into account, can you honestly justify the end of the world narrative?

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

As I stated in an earlier post, in terms of getting as many of the public as possible to have the vaccine, the Government will have "many ways to skin a cat" long before any decision is needed to be made to make vaccination obligatory - and I'm afraid such indirect actions like what will happen to this lady; i.e. to basically EXCLUDE unvaccinated people; will provide those ways and I suspect we will see more and more incidences of similar consequential exclusions for unvaccinated people as time progresses. I suspect that such exclusions will then be lifted for each person as that individual gets vaccinated.

I agree that it is hard to understand that a woman who worked through this pandemic caring for people in a care home will lose her job because her free choice is not be vaccinated. However, to balance that I find it equally hard to understand why that same woman who should know the consequences of an outbreak of Covid in her care home, is comfortable with her free choice to remain an obvious and clear danger to those same and future care home residents by not being vaccinated?

Before anyone asks me is it ok then to "blackmail" people in this way to take the vaccine, I would simply ask would a caring and sane relative refuse a loved one, who is in an illness caused coma in ICU from being given a life saving drug - and impartial and fully analysed results of these vaccine have/will show them to be life savers - just because their comatose loved one can't have the freedom of choice as to whether they want that drug or not? I would hope not!!
At the end of the day this is all about the "Greater Good" - yes anyone is entitled to exercise their choice but all actions have consequences. This virus is a mindless killer - I've seen it in action close up - and if left unchecked will ultimately wipe out mankind. Therefore, please feel free to make your choice and refuse the vaccine but in doing so please accept in all fairness that you will remain a potential nurturing/infecting ground for this horrible virus. Therefore, you must also accept that society as a whole may well wish to exercise its holistic right to freedom of choice and put consequential measures in place for the greater good.

if left unchecked it will ultimately wipe out mankind...

jesus.. what cult are you in ?

I will not even bother to explain why Covid-19 unchecked would ultimately lead to the end of mankind as you appear to have little comprehension of the danger this virus presents. I must assume that your lapse into trying taking the piss and your total and abject failure to offer (as usual with people like you) a sensible, realistic and safe alternative to the vaccine allied to your apparent inability/unwillingness to accept reasoned argument, must mean that secretly you will be having the vaccine. I don't think I need to try to convince you any more - you must be one of us already - albeit secretly!!

He keeps fishing because people keep biting. Just ignore him & your life will be much happier.

cut the CA out adam ant and fck off bck to planet swamp....... being an more stupid version is fooling no one

The right to choose is beyond doubt,however,it's not just the choice of individuals. employers will have a say too.A woman in the care home that my wife works in says she will refuse the vaccine as its her choice Luckily for the residents she will probably lose her job because of her belief and her employers would be blameless as they are only looking out for the vulnerable people in their care.

As I stated in an earlier post, in terms of getting as many of the public as possible to have the vaccine, the Government will have "many ways to skin a cat" long before any decision is needed to be made to make vaccination obligatory - and I'm afraid such indirect actions like what will happen to this lady; i.e. to basically EXCLUDE unvaccinated people; will provide those ways and I suspect we will see more and more incidences of similar consequential exclusions for unvaccinated people as time progresses. I suspect that such exclusions will then be lifted for each person as that individual gets vaccinated.

I agree that it is hard to understand that a woman who worked through this pandemic caring for people in a care home will lose her job because her free choice is not be vaccinated. However, to balance that I find it equally hard to understand why that same woman who should know the consequences of an outbreak of Covid in her care home, is comfortable with her free choice to remain an obvious and clear danger to those same and future care home residents by not being vaccinated?

Before anyone asks me is it ok then to "blackmail" people in this way to take the vaccine, I would simply ask would a caring and sane relative refuse a loved one, who is in an illness caused coma in ICU from being given a life saving drug - and impartial and fully analysed results of these vaccine have/will show them to be life savers - just because their comatose loved one can't have the freedom of choice as to whether they want that drug or not? I would hope not!!
At the end of the day this is all about the "Greater Good" - yes anyone is entitled to exercise their choice but all actions have consequences. This virus is a mindless killer - I've seen it in action close up - and if left unchecked will ultimately wipe out mankind. Therefore, please feel free to make your choice and refuse the vaccine but in doing so please accept in all fairness that you will remain a potential nurturing/infecting ground for this horrible virus. Therefore, you must also accept that society as a whole may well wish to exercise its holistic right to freedom of choice and put consequential measures in place for the greater good.

if left unchecked it will ultimately wipe out mankind...

jesus.. what cult are you in ?

I will not even bother to explain why Covid-19 unchecked would ultimately lead to the end of mankind as you appear to have little comprehension of the danger this virus presents. I must assume that your lapse into trying taking the piss and your total and abject failure to offer (as usual with people like you) a sensible, realistic and safe alternative to the vaccine allied to your apparent inability/unwillingness to accept reasoned argument, must mean that secretly you will be having the vaccine. I don't think I need to try to convince you any more - you must be one of us already - albeit secretly!!

well at least i understand your enthusiasm to be vaccinated... id probably join you if this was likely to kill 1 per cent of the population annually and in doing so double our annual death rate let alone be the end of mankind .. , but its not and its nowhere near 1%..
as for alternatives... the vaccine IS the alternative... humans have learned to deal with far worse than this before and no doubt will again...

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