IF IM WRONG CHANGE MY MIND !!

I have to disagree with many points Nukes.
When you say people have a 99.9% chance of surviving, not sure where you got this info from try telling that to the families of the 40,000+ that have died
There is a big difference between not wearing a mask for influenza and pneumonia
(most likely cause of catching Pneumonia is bacteria and viruses living in your nose, sinuses, or mouth and spreading to your lungs) and there are vaccines for Influenza and pneumonia. For Covid19 there is none, and I believe that it will be many years before there is one that is effective and side effects free.
Do you honestly think that a healthy diet, vitamins, being happy, keep your immune system high, being happy may keep you mind healthy, and a healthy diet helps if you do catch Covid19 but it certainly does not prevent you catching Covid19.

Why do they not prevent you from catching it? Immune systems have kept the species going for millions of years. But assuming you are right, then having a healthy immune system will at the very least, prevent you from dying from the disease. You talk about 40,000 people dying of Covid - yet in 1968 85,000 people died of the 'flu and in 1919 200,000 people died of Spanish 'flu - yet we did not lockdown. Furthermore, there is plenty of evidene out there to show that lockdowns do not work - Sweden did not lockdown yet its death rate is lower than ours. Wearing a mask may be fine for you, but not for me: it makes me anxious and my wife tells me that her breathing is affected. There is plenty of evidence out there that masks are bad for you. If you want me to send you links please pm me.

I wonder how many commenting on here has had a loved one perish from Covid.

I have had a loved one dying of Covid (my father in law in April), but that shouldn't prevent us from using our reason. The powers that be have totally overreacted to this, which was understandable at the beginning, but why are they continuing to overreact? That is a troubling question.

Posted a week or so ago about the Covid and the attack on our lives by the cynical bastards that run the world.

There is a view that climate emergency didn't create the moral panic that was needed so they've gone all in on Covid panic, hoping to use this to push through societal change they desire (and screw Trump in the process). They'll go back to climate when it suits the agenda.

Not my work but the signs of a stitch-up are clear when Blair gets involved:

‘There's this from the "Tony Blair Institute for Global Change" (They could have come up with a less evil dystopian name)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... hr#comment


That is so, so worrying, but not at all surprising. This is why people should start to question what ours, and other governments are doing - the consequences of neglecting to do so could be dire. The globalists will win - only of we let them.

Digital 'coronavirus-status passports' could be used to scrap blanket lockdown measures and free up vast swathes of the economy, a new report, backed by former Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, has urged.

Under the proposals, people would be tested as often as every two weeks for coronavirus and keep their results in a app on their phone.

Passport holders would be able to scan an individual QR code to get into restaurants and sports venues, meaning businesses would be able to reduce social distancing requirements.

Those who test negative would also avoid the need for quarantining when crossing borders.

The report from the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change advocates for the implementation of 'digital' passports as part of wider calls for mass testing.

In a foreword to the report, Mr Hunt writes: "We know there is a delicate balance to be struck between health and economic concerns.

"We also know that the two are inextricably linked: an economy in freefall causes immense physical and mental harm and the uncertainty of lockdowns will lead to deep and lasting economic damage.

“Having the confidence to return to work and for consumers to interact with businesses is now a must, but it can only be achieved by learning to live alongside the virus. Short of a safe vaccine, mass testing is the only way to realise this.”

The paper, which is also backed by former Prime Minister Tony Blair and ex-leader of the Conservative Party William Hague, argues for “Covid-19 status passports” to help open up the economy further.

The report’s author, strategic adviser at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change, Ryan Wain said: “It’s almost a passport back to normality. It would allow restaurants to open closer to full capacity, it could help get crowds back in sports stadiums.

“It’s really important for the economy to eventually remove and reduce social distancing and I see the passport as a way of doing that. It would also allow people to travel more freely and enable mass quarantine to be scaled down.”

Mr Wain said the suggestion was different to an “immunity passport”, which was previously touted as a potential route out of the coronavirus pandemic.
In May, the Health Secretary Matt Hancock had hinted that immunity certificates could be issued to those who had already recovered from coronavirus

In May, the Health Secretary Matt Hancock hinted that immunity certificates could be issued to those who had already recovered from coronavirus in order to enable them to return to a more normal way of life.

However, Mr Wain noted that “evidence is still in flux about how long immunity lasts”, with some studies suggesting it can last for as little as three months.

The paper also argues the Government should look to the football Premier League’s success with mass testing which works by “removing the threat posed by non-symptomatic spreaders".

The Premier League tests every player and staff member across all 20 clubs twice every week in order to find asymptomatic cases.

I'm sure the next idea will be the digital passport linked to your green credentials - only those woke enough allowed to travel abroad.’

Seriously, OR code on your smartphone and you go nowhere without it.
What they also don’t tell you about testing is that your DNA is taken and held.
If you haven’t already done so read about the ‘social credit societal system.’
There’s a lot more - they can/are possibly undertaking the 'Great Reset,' but this should do for now.

Posted a week or so ago about the Covid and the attack on our lives by the cynical bastards that run the world.

There is a view that climate emergency didn't create the moral panic that was needed so they've gone all in on Covid panic, hoping to use this to push through societal change they desire (and screw Trump in the process). They'll go back to climate when it suits the agenda.

Not my work but the signs of a stitch-up are clear when Blair gets involved:

‘There's this from the "Tony Blair Institute for Global Change" (They could have come up with a less evil dystopian name)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... hr#comment


Very worrying, but not surprising - not surprising either that Bliar was involved. People have to wake up - the globalists will win only if we let them.

That is so, so worrying, but not at all surprising. This is why people should start to question what ours, and other governments are doing - the consequences of neglecting to do so could be dire. The globalists will win - only of we let them.

Digital 'coronavirus-status passports' could be used to scrap blanket lockdown measures and free up vast swathes of the economy, a new report, backed by former Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt, has urged.

Under the proposals, people would be tested as often as every two weeks for coronavirus and keep their results in a app on their phone.

Passport holders would be able to scan an individual QR code to get into restaurants and sports venues, meaning businesses would be able to reduce social distancing requirements.

Those who test negative would also avoid the need for quarantining when crossing borders.

The report from the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change advocates for the implementation of 'digital' passports as part of wider calls for mass testing.

In a foreword to the report, Mr Hunt writes: "We know there is a delicate balance to be struck between health and economic concerns.

"We also know that the two are inextricably linked: an economy in freefall causes immense physical and mental harm and the uncertainty of lockdowns will lead to deep and lasting economic damage.

“Having the confidence to return to work and for consumers to interact with businesses is now a must, but it can only be achieved by learning to live alongside the virus. Short of a safe vaccine, mass testing is the only way to realise this.”

The paper, which is also backed by former Prime Minister Tony Blair and ex-leader of the Conservative Party William Hague, argues for “Covid-19 status passports” to help open up the economy further.

The report’s author, strategic adviser at the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change, Ryan Wain said: “It’s almost a passport back to normality. It would allow restaurants to open closer to full capacity, it could help get crowds back in sports stadiums.

“It’s really important for the economy to eventually remove and reduce social distancing and I see the passport as a way of doing that. It would also allow people to travel more freely and enable mass quarantine to be scaled down.”

Mr Wain said the suggestion was different to an “immunity passport”, which was previously touted as a potential route out of the coronavirus pandemic.
In May, the Health Secretary Matt Hancock had hinted that immunity certificates could be issued to those who had already recovered from coronavirus

In May, the Health Secretary Matt Hancock hinted that immunity certificates could be issued to those who had already recovered from coronavirus in order to enable them to return to a more normal way of life.

However, Mr Wain noted that “evidence is still in flux about how long immunity lasts”, with some studies suggesting it can last for as little as three months.

The paper also argues the Government should look to the football Premier League’s success with mass testing which works by “removing the threat posed by non-symptomatic spreaders".

The Premier League tests every player and staff member across all 20 clubs twice every week in order to find asymptomatic cases.

I'm sure the next idea will be the digital passport linked to your green credentials - only those woke enough allowed to travel abroad.’

Seriously, OR code on your smartphone and you go nowhere without it.
What they also don’t tell you about testing is that your DNA is taken and held.
If you haven’t already done so read about the ‘social credit societal system.’
There’s a lot more - they can/are possibly undertaking the 'Great Reset,' but this should do for now.

I have to disagree with many points Nukes.
When you say people have a 99.9% chance of surviving, not sure where you got this info from try telling that to the families of the 40,000+ that have died
There is a big difference between not wearing a mask for influenza and pneumonia
(most likely cause of catching Pneumonia is bacteria and viruses living in your nose, sinuses, or mouth and spreading to your lungs) and there are vaccines for Influenza and pneumonia. For Covid19 there is none, and I believe that it will be many years before there is one that is effective and side effects free.
Do you honestly think that a healthy diet, vitamins, being happy, keep your immune system high, being happy may keep you mind healthy, and a healthy diet helps if you do catch Covid19 but it certainly does not prevent you catching Covid19.

Why do they not prevent you from catching it? Immune systems have kept the species going for millions of years. [/quo

It's not only kids that are scared stiff only need to see adults reaction when get to close to them? And people complaining they have to go back to work because they are scared of catching corvid..... at rate we are going people wont build up immunity from it because wont be exposed to virus, bit like a lot of normal
viruses/germs because we are over cautious in being exposed to them so we catch them easily as no immunity gained from them.

Allan if you saw the selfish idiots in supermarkets who may have Covid19 and are not aware of it, stand inches away from you many without masks breathing all over you and many talking to their partners spouting out enough air to blow you over, then you would not think it foolish to have a reaction to them!

in the super market... sorry mate but the person most responsible for my well being is me... and if i was bothered to the extent you seem to be id be getting my groceries delivered.. not out and about calling all and sundry idiots, fools , thickos and selfish.
if anything those expecting life to come to a standstill , children to not be children anymore , young adults to sacrifice special memories that our generation took for granted in case they catch a virus are being selfish..
personally i did not and still do not agree with the lockdown... but we had it and now its time to move on .. god knows how much damage going forward as been done mentally to our young already... the new normal my arse.. lets try dropping the new bit.. and do what humans have done since the beginning of time.. which is risk assess for yourself and act accordingly..

I agree. My father in law died of Covid in April and we couldn't have a funeral We can't be concerned about people dying of Covid to the extent that we make ourselves inhuman. We can't ignore those who will die because of lockdown - which some estimate to be three times more than died of Covid - not to mention the tragedy inflicted on small business owners and others.

Posted a week or so ago about the Covid and the attack on our lives by the cynical bastards that run the world.

There is a view that climate emergency didn't create the moral panic that was needed so they've gone all in on Covid panic, hoping to use this to push through societal change they desire (and screw Trump in the process). They'll go back to climate when it suits the agenda.

Not my work but the signs of a stitch-up are clear when Blair gets involved:

‘There's this from the "Tony Blair Institute for Global Change" (They could have come up with a less evil dystopian name)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... hr#comment

Not planning on getting involved but I am just curious, are you saying that Tony Blair made the corona virus now?

Posted a week or so ago about the Covid and the attack on our lives by the cynical bastards that run the world.

There is a view that climate emergency didn't create the moral panic that was needed so they've gone all in on Covid panic, hoping to use this to push through societal change they desire (and screw Trump in the process). They'll go back to climate when it suits the agenda.

Not my work but the signs of a stitch-up are clear when Blair gets involved:

‘There's this from the "Tony Blair Institute for Global Change" (They could have come up with a less evil dystopian name)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... hr#comment

Not planning on getting involved but I am just curious, are you saying that Tony Blair made the corona virus now?

Not sure Blair has the intellect to invent a virus but IMO he is a self serving sanctimonious cnut

Posted a week or so ago about the Covid and the attack on our lives by the cynical bastards that run the world.

There is a view that climate emergency didn't create the moral panic that was needed so they've gone all in on Covid panic, hoping to use this to push through societal change they desire (and screw Trump in the process). They'll go back to climate when it suits the agenda.

Not my work but the signs of a stitch-up are clear when Blair gets involved:

‘There's this from the "Tony Blair Institute for Global Change" (They could have come up with a less evil dystopian name)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... hr#comment

Not planning on getting involved but I am just curious, are you saying that Tony Blair made the corona virus now?

Not sure Blair has the intellect to invent a virus but IMO he is a self serving sanctimonious cnut

I think Bliar IS a virus.

I have to disagree with many points Nukes.
When you say people have a 99.9% chance of surviving, not sure where you got this info from try telling that to the families of the 40,000+ that have died
There is a big difference between not wearing a mask for influenza and pneumonia
(most likely cause of catching Pneumonia is bacteria and viruses living in your nose, sinuses, or mouth and spreading to your lungs) and there are vaccines for Influenza and pneumonia. For Covid19 there is none, and I believe that it will be many years before there is one that is effective and side effects free.
Do you honestly think that a healthy diet, vitamins, being happy, keep your immune system high, being happy may keep you mind healthy, and a healthy diet helps if you do catch Covid19 but it certainly does not prevent you catching Covid19.

Just to answer your reply. 40.000 plus deaths now this is why I said included in that total you have those that had Covid when they died but was not the cause of death. You have those older people who had Covid and put back in the care home system which then they infected other older people. I was hearing even if someone had Covid recovered and left if they died of something totally unrelated Covid was still put down. I also heard doctors was getting paid extra if they put covid as cause of death. So as you see that 40.000 is pretty damn dodgy number.
And yes an immune system fights viruses and helps keep us alive and this is why many with certain conditions that didn’t have much of an immune system (my wife included because of MS) were very vulnerable. But they are also vulnerable to all the other viruses and germs out there this is just another added to the mix.
And all what I said which raises your immune system is in fact true and can’t be denied. And depression does lower your immune system that is also fact. So I do stand by 100% what I wrote in the original post Chief.

”When I see people with masks on I don’t see a person I see a faceless robot that are terrified of a virus that you have a 99.9% of surviving.“

In my job as delivery driver it’s company rule to wear mask into the shops when staff and customers are present. Don’t fancy losing my job for not wearing a mask for 10 minutes.

That doesn’t change my statement Chief because you are being forced to wear a mask or as I do call them a Muzzle. Now if you had a choice would you wear one ?

Some interesting points and yes I was compliant at the beginning but as time went on I could see the lies the fear that was being spread.
As stated before, we were seeing in China of people collapsing in a zombie like way, of which was starting to scare the living daylights out of everyone. But then we haven’t seen anyone die that way from covid in the West.
So was the film footage from other diseases or even drugs ? But one thing it wasn’t Covid and that is shameful.

Then there was a couple of articles from Sky News of a step by step account of how you die from Covid. And I thought that was one of the most shameful piece of journalism I have ever seen.

And then there was a daily 800 odd people were dying of Covid every single day we was told. Even though that number I really do believe could of been manipulated to a very high %
But when that went down the report wasn’t that the so called curve was flattening or anything that would reassure the population No we went from daily deaths to total deaths. So instead of 800 people died yesterday Is was the total now stands at 45.000 deaths.

Boris Johnson ? Well him and Prince Charles So say having it. I’m very suspicious indeed. To the point I flatly don’t believe it.
The Government and media have driven this whole virus charade with 100% fear. And fear is what I see on a daily basis, no matter what proof is out there people are so frightened they truly look to Boris or even beg him to keep them safe even if it’s being locked in our houses to marshal law to putting those that don’t comply in prison.

Then I saw the George Floyd saga and all of a sudden the press and the Government went totally silent on Covid and the far left took to the streets. All you heard from the media was it’s a peaceful protest etc.

So all I see tells me it’s all bullshit but people are so scared now the Government can get them to do whatever they are told because they now firmly believe the state is keeping them safe.
You now have total control by the Government over the population. And even though there is very little of covid now they are turning the screw. Masks are as I said you see people as faceless Robots and that’s how the establishment look at everyone.

If you think that is crazy look at North Korea to see how to control the population with fear. Don’t think that can’t happen hear as Marxism is being given a push.

All I’m asking is open your eyes and look at the evidence in front of you and see you are being played. If you are frightened ask yourself why are you so frightened now when there have been far more deaths from influenza in the past.
And just to restate the deaths from suicide with be epidemic with being locked up and loosing jobs and business etc and we will also see a huge rise in Cancer deaths and heart disease because people were to frightened to seek help or who couldn’t because that help just wasn’t there the last several months.
But I do wonder they are planning another wave soon and these deaths from cancer and heart disease will be put down to the new wave of covid you watch. This is only the beginning I fear and the amount of frightened people out there they can pull this off and not many would not question them.
The only Virus I see is the media and the establishment. Not this is what I’m frightened of not COVID19

99.9% of surviving which means you have 0.1% of dying.
My kid had a cancer where only 100 kids per year died from neuroblastoma .He was one of them.
So never think death won't come calling at your door.

Some interesting points and yes I was compliant at the beginning but as time went on I could see the lies the fear that was being spread.
As stated before, we were seeing in China of people collapsing in a zombie like way, of which was starting to scare the living daylights out of everyone. But then we haven’t seen anyone die that way from covid in the West.
So was the film footage from other diseases or even drugs ? But one thing it wasn’t Covid and that is shameful.

Then there was a couple of articles from Sky News of a step by step account of how you die from Covid. And I thought that was one of the most shameful piece of journalism I have ever seen.

And then there was a daily 800 odd people were dying of Covid every single day we was told. Even though that number I really do believe could of been manipulated to a very high %
But when that went down the report wasn’t that the so called curve was flattening or anything that would reassure the population No we went from daily deaths to total deaths. So instead of 800 people died yesterday Is was the total now stands at 45.000 deaths.

Boris Johnson ? Well him and Prince Charles So say having it. I’m very suspicious indeed. To the point I flatly don’t believe it.
The Government and media have driven this whole virus charade with 100% fear. And fear is what I see on a daily basis, no matter what proof is out there people are so frightened they truly look to Boris or even beg him to keep them safe even if it’s being locked in our houses to marshal law to putting those that don’t comply in prison.

Then I saw the George Floyd saga and all of a sudden the press and the Government went totally silent on Covid and the far left took to the streets. All you heard from the media was it’s a peaceful protest etc.

So all I see tells me it’s all bullshit but people are so scared now the Government can get them to do whatever they are told because they now firmly believe the state is keeping them safe.
You now have total control by the Government over the population. And even though there is very little of covid now they are turning the screw. Masks are as I said you see people as faceless Robots and that’s how the establishment look at everyone.

If you think that is crazy look at North Korea to see how to control the population with fear. Don’t think that can’t happen hear as Marxism is being given a push.

All I’m asking is open your eyes and look at the evidence in front of you and see you are being played. If you are frightened ask yourself why are you so frightened now when there have been far more deaths from influenza in the past.
And just to restate the deaths from suicide with be epidemic with being locked up and loosing jobs and business etc and we will also see a huge rise in Cancer deaths and heart disease because people were to frightened to seek help or who couldn’t because that help just wasn’t there the last several months.
But I do wonder they are planning another wave soon and these deaths from cancer and heart disease will be put down to the new wave of covid you watch. This is only the beginning I fear and the amount of frightened people out there they can pull this off and not many would not question them.
The only Virus I see is the media and the establishment. Not this is what I’m frightened of not COVID19

The last line sums it up for me nukes and this is from personal experience,my mum:terrified, my sisters: terrified, all are showing serious signs of anxiety,mum the worst affected!! Was born during war,yet now to scared to go to the shops
You are right as far as the "2nd wave" they were talking of it,before the 1st had taken hold? All that was on the tv was covid this covid that,scenes from an intensive care unit of people dying (an Italian hospital at that!) Constant pumping out of death tolls,deliberately scaring the shit out of the general population, all to get better control of us
,want us begging for them to "save" us from this evil virus,if only 15% of death certificates in italy (reported and posted on here) have covid as actual cause of death,why in this country would I believe it would be different?
Simple answer: they have been counting people who died of other illnesses (usually severe,and sometimes 2 conditions or more! ) people who were "suspected" of showing symptoms,therefore recorded as a covid death?
I have never believed the figures,never! When you look back,they had the whole country lock itself up,without much fuss at all in truth,next it will be 2nd wave,then the "vaccine",and tested or not,people will line up like sheep for it,regardless of what the side effects could be in the future!! Because they will ramp up the fear campaign a notch or two,just to make sure
Certain people will believe what they hear/see on the bbc,and either can't or won't look any further than that?
A certain amount of posters on here,are of the age to have lived through the Hong Kong flu in 1968,which was "DIRECTLY" Responsible for 30,000+ deaths here,and up to 4,000,000 worldwide.My question to those in that category, what do you remember about it? I'll start,sweet fanny Adams if I'm being honest,masks? Ummm no! Social distance rules? Ummm no,worldwide closure? Nope! Yet for this virus,that so far has "killed" under 800,000,the world comes grinding to a halt,with only one possible outcome,
A world wide recession, the likes of which,none of us on here has faced in our lifetime the ruling elite have decided to push the re set button on the planet,and economies,plus want a more authoritarian western Europe, more people control,a bit like the way leaders like the chinese and Russians control the people in there respective country's.
Lastly,it's food to have open debate,without people reverting to name calling,as has happened many times in the past,the usual " conspiracy theorist tag or extinction rebellion.BLM etc etc
I AM NOT A ROBOT!

99.9% of surviving which means you have 0.1% of dying.
My kid had a cancer where only 100 kids per year died from neuroblastoma .He was one of them.
So never think death won't come calling at your door.

I am so so sorry for your loss. Living this life is full of its and butts. Every time we leave the house we are risking death, of coarse it can knock on my door any day any time. But this particular virus I Real feel is not as bad as they are telling us and being used for evil purposes. Nothing changes the fact they are lying to us.
God bless your kid Chief no one should lose a child and I can’t imagine it.

If a child was responsible for killing the Grand parent, I think they may grow up a bit differently than if hey hadn’t. The precautions are there due to the uncertainty.

I understand the need for a change in tactic to some degree and people's frustrations but do you not think/agree that the reason that infections have been kept down/low is exactly because of the restrictions etc, it's no coincidence that as soon as things get relaxed and people abuse it that the infections rise etc

You got to cut the government some slack, they are dealing with an unknown virus but they are making a mess of it I agree with that in some instances.

I dont believe in all the conspiracies though mate, I mean in who's interest is it to keep us like this and why? And not the government's surely? It's costing them a fortune and they clearly want things back to normal more than some of the public but have to box clever as we don't know what's to come over the winter

I have to disagree with many points Nukes.
When you say people have a 99.9% chance of surviving, not sure where you got this info from try telling that to the families of the 40,000+ that have died
There is a big difference between not wearing a mask for influenza and pneumonia
(most likely cause of catching Pneumonia is bacteria and viruses living in your nose, sinuses, or mouth and spreading to your lungs) and there are vaccines for Influenza and pneumonia. For Covid19 there is none, and I believe that it will be many years before there is one that is effective and side effects free.
Do you honestly think that a healthy diet, vitamins, being happy, keep your immune system high, being happy may keep you mind healthy, and a healthy diet helps if you do catch Covid19 but it certainly does not prevent you catching Covid19.

Just to answer your reply. 40.000 plus deaths now this is why I said included in that total you have those that had Covid when they died but was not the cause of death. You have those older people who had Covid and put back in the care home system which then they infected other older people. I was hearing even if someone had Covid recovered and left if they died of something totally unrelated Covid was still put down. I also heard doctors was getting paid extra if they put covid as cause of death. So as you see that 40.000 is pretty damn dodgy number.
And yes an immune system fights viruses and helps keep us alive and this is why many with certain conditions that didn’t have much of an immune system (my wife included because of MS) were very vulnerable. But they are also vulnerable to all the other viruses and germs out there this is just another added to the mix.
And all what I said which raises your immune system is in fact true and can’t be denied. And depression does lower your immune system that is also fact. So I do stand by 100% what I wrote in the original post Chief.

Nukes, just one thing, there is no proof whatsoever of your statement
"I was hearing even if someone had Covid recovered and left if they died of something totally unrelated Covid was still put down. I also heard doctors was getting paid extra if they put covid as cause of death" to me this is just another conspiracy theory, among many others. People will believe what they want to believe, personally without real proof, I tend to not believe the stuff posted on social media, much of it being fake news!

I understand the need for a change in tactic to some degree and people's frustrations but do you not think/agree that the reason that infections have been kept down/low is exactly because of the restrictions etc, it's no coincidence that as soon as things get relaxed and people abuse it that the infections rise etc

You got to cut the government some slack, they are dealing with an unknown virus but they are making a mess of it I agree with that in some instances.

I dont believe in all the conspiracies though mate, I mean in who's interest is it to keep us like this and why? And not the government's surely? It's costing them a fortune and they clearly want things back to normal more than some of the public but have to box clever as we don't know what's to come over the winter

Just adifferent view and opinion addressing your points

1 - Sweden and others did not opt to lockdown and deaths per million are lower than ours so there is evidence pointing to the possibility that lockdown has achieved very little if anything.

You mention the coincidence of relaxation leading to higher infection, sorry but this is just not correct and the exact misleading information the media constantly peddles.

Higher infections are due to higher numbers of testing. Where are the higher number of hospitalisations and deaths since ending lockdown? Oh that's right, there isn't any.

I understand the need for a change in tactic to some degree and people's frustrations but do you not think/agree that the reason that infections have been kept down/low is exactly because of the restrictions etc, it's no coincidence that as soon as things get relaxed and people abuse it that the infections rise etc

You got to cut the government some slack, they are dealing with an unknown virus but they are making a mess of it I agree with that in some instances.

I dont believe in all the conspiracies though mate, I mean in who's interest is it to keep us like this and why? And not the government's surely? It's costing them a fortune and they clearly want things back to normal more than some of the public but have to box clever as we don't know what's to come over the winter

Just adifferent view and opinion addressing your points

1 - Sweden and others did not opt to lockdown and deaths per million are lower than ours so there is evidence pointing to the possibility that lockdown has achieved very little if anything.

I probably wouldn't use Sweden as an example if you compare to the countries around it.
As of last week
Sweden: 8200 confirmed cases per mill
Norway: 1780
Denmark: 2560
(UK is 4600)

Deaths per 100,000
Sweden: 57
Norway: 5
Denmark: 11
(UK is 70)

Deaths per million of the population (World ranking)
Uk: 6th
Sweden: 8th
Denmark:50th
Norway: 81st

And Sweden did have restrictions, travel in Stockholm went down 40%.

I understand the need for a change in tactic to some degree and people's frustrations but do you not think/agree that the reason that infections have been kept down/low is exactly because of the restrictions etc, it's no coincidence that as soon as things get relaxed and people abuse it that the infections rise etc

You got to cut the government some slack, they are dealing with an unknown virus but they are making a mess of it I agree with that in some instances.

I dont believe in all the conspiracies though mate, I mean in who's interest is it to keep us like this and why? And not the government's surely? It's costing them a fortune and they clearly want things back to normal more than some of the public but have to box clever as we don't know what's to come over the winter

Just adifferent view and opinion addressing your points

1 - Sweden and others did not opt to lockdown and deaths per million are lower than ours so there is evidence pointing to the possibility that lockdown has achieved very little if anything.

I probably wouldn't use Sweden as an example if you compare to the countries around it.
As of last week
Sweden: 8200 confirmed cases per mill
Norway: 1780
Denmark: 2560
(UK is 4600)

Deaths per 100,000
Sweden: 57
Norway: 5
Denmark: 11
(UK is 70)

Deaths per million of the population (World ranking)
Uk: 6th
Sweden: 8th
Denmark:50th
Norway: 81st

And Sweden did have restrictions, travel in Stockholm went down 40%.

Firstly you state confirmed cases per million which is irrelevant for the reasons given in my original post and will be totally dependent on each countries number of tests.

I am not saying the rest of your info is also incorrect but certainly does not correspond with what is being published on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries in regars to UK/Sweden comparisons.

Could you please provide sources backing your stats.

Good thoughtful post,excellent replies, lots to consider
Well said everyone

I understand the need for a change in tactic to some degree and people's frustrations but do you not think/agree that the reason that infections have been kept down/low is exactly because of the restrictions etc, it's no coincidence that as soon as things get relaxed and people abuse it that the infections rise etc

You got to cut the government some slack, they are dealing with an unknown virus but they are making a mess of it I agree with that in some instances.

I dont believe in all the conspiracies though mate, I mean in who's interest is it to keep us like this and why? And not the government's surely? It's costing them a fortune and they clearly want things back to normal more than some of the public but have to box clever as we don't know what's to come over the winter

Just adifferent view and opinion addressing your points

1 - Sweden and others did not opt to lockdown and deaths per million are lower than ours so there is evidence pointing to the possibility that lockdown has achieved very little if anything.

I probably wouldn't use Sweden as an example if you compare to the countries around it.
As of last week
Sweden: 8200 confirmed cases per mill
Norway: 1780
Denmark: 2560
(UK is 4600)

Deaths per 100,000
Sweden: 57
Norway: 5
Denmark: 11
(UK is 70)

Deaths per million of the population (World ranking)
Uk: 6th
Sweden: 8th
Denmark:50th
Norway: 81st

And Sweden did have restrictions, travel in Stockholm went down 40%.

Firstly you state confirmed cases per million which is irrelevant for the reasons given in my original post and will be totally dependent on each countries number of tests.

I am not saying the rest of your info is also incorrect but certainly does not correspond with what is being published on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries in regars to UK/Sweden comparisons.

Could you please provide sources backing your stats.

New scientist, statisa, and the website you've linked.

For the confirmed cases point, the UK does roughly twice as many tests per million than Sweden and as trump says “Don’t forget, we have more cases than anybody in the world. But why? Because we do more testing. If we didn’t do any testing, we would have very few cases." Using that somewhat, surely if we're doing more test per million we'd have more confirmed cases per mill? They have fewer tests but a higher number per mill there.

I have to disagree with many points Nukes.
When you say people have a 99.9% chance of surviving, not sure where you got this info from try telling that to the families of the 40,000+ that have died
There is a big difference between not wearing a mask for influenza and pneumonia
(most likely cause of catching Pneumonia is bacteria and viruses living in your nose, sinuses, or mouth and spreading to your lungs) and there are vaccines for Influenza and pneumonia. For Covid19 there is none, and I believe that it will be many years before there is one that is effective and side effects free.
Do you honestly think that a healthy diet, vitamins, being happy, keep your immune system high, being happy may keep you mind healthy, and a healthy diet helps if you do catch Covid19 but it certainly does not prevent you catching Covid19.

Why do they not prevent you from catching it? Immune systems have kept the species going for millions of years. But assuming you are right, then having a healthy immune system will at the very least, prevent you from dying from the disease. You talk about 40,000 people dying of Covid - yet in 1968 85,000 people died of the 'flu and in 1919 200,000 people died of Spanish 'flu - yet we did not lockdown. Furthermore, there is plenty of evidene out there to show that lockdowns do not work - Sweden did not lockdown yet its death rate is lower than ours. Wearing a mask may be fine for you, but not for me: it makes me anxious and my wife tells me that her breathing is affected. There is plenty of evidence out there that masks are bad for you. If you want me to send you links please pm me.

So just to clarify;

Lockdown and restrictions on interaction with people - 40,000 dead
No lockdown and carrying on as normal - 85,000 and 200,000 dead

Surely you’ve just justified that a lockdown is effective, the 40k dead is also with 52 and 101 years of advancement in medical knowledge and science compared to the other pandemics.
Sweden’s death rate may be lower than ours but our countries are wildly different, when you make comparisons between Sweden and their Scandinavian neighbours with similar climates, populations, lifestyles and cultures they come out considerably worse when looking at Norway, Finland and Denmark.
As for there being plenty of evidence that masks are bad for you I’d argue there’s 100x more evidence stating why they’re not harmful for you and how they can help control the pandemic.

I have to disagree with many points Nukes.
When you say people have a 99.9% chance of surviving, not sure where you got this info from try telling that to the families of the 40,000+ that have died
There is a big difference between not wearing a mask for influenza and pneumonia
(most likely cause of catching Pneumonia is bacteria and viruses living in your nose, sinuses, or mouth and spreading to your lungs) and there are vaccines for Influenza and pneumonia. For Covid19 there is none, and I believe that it will be many years before there is one that is effective and side effects free.
Do you honestly think that a healthy diet, vitamins, being happy, keep your immune system high, being happy may keep you mind healthy, and a healthy diet helps if you do catch Covid19 but it certainly does not prevent you catching Covid19.

Why do they not prevent you from catching it? Immune systems have kept the species going for millions of years. But assuming you are right, then having a healthy immune system will at the very least, prevent you from dying from the disease. You talk about 40,000 people dying of Covid - yet in 1968 85,000 people died of the 'flu and in 1919 200,000 people died of Spanish 'flu - yet we did not lockdown. Furthermore, there is plenty of evidene out there to show that lockdowns do not work - Sweden did not lockdown yet its death rate is lower than ours. Wearing a mask may be fine for you, but not for me: it makes me anxious and my wife tells me that her breathing is affected. There is plenty of evidence out there that masks are bad for you. If you want me to send you links please pm me.

So just to clarify;

Lockdown and restrictions on interaction with people - 40,000 dead
No lockdown and carrying on as normal - 85,000 and 200,000 dead

Surely you’ve just justified that a lockdown is effective, the 40k dead is also with 52 and 101 years of advancement in medical knowledge and science compared to the other pandemics.
Sweden’s death rate may be lower than ours but our countries are wildly different, when you make comparisons between Sweden and their Scandinavian neighbours with similar climates, populations, lifestyles and cultures they come out considerably worse when looking at Norway, Finland and Denmark.
As for there being plenty of evidence that masks are bad for you I’d argue there’s 100x more evidence stating why they’re not harmful for you and how they can help control the pandemic.

Or you could use turkey as an example? 82m people,6,000 deaths! And had a partial lockdown,unless you were under 16 or over 65,who were told to stay home,plus people who had serious underlying conditions.
If as the experts are now saying,it's airborne, a mask will just prevent it entering mouths and noses,eyes are still vulnerable, as is every item of clothes you wear,your hair etc.,cases are rising around the globe,but that's because they are carrying out massive testing ? Where as early on they weren't doing many.
The saddest fact is more people will die because of covid,not with it or of it.

Can anyone from the 'conspicacy theory' types tell me why the government would want this to be happening?

I am genuinely interested, I don't get it as I don't see how any of this is in anyone's interest but I'm open to learning, someone mentioned there is something coming out called Plandemic? that is supposed to be an eye opener

Can anyone from the 'conspicacy theory' types tell me why the government would want this to be happening?

I am genuinely interested, I don't get it as I don't see how any of this is in anyone's interest but I'm open to learning, someone mentioned there is something coming out called Pandemic? that is supposed to be an eye opener

It is all social media fake news conspiracy theorists fiction not facts

I have to disagree with many points Nukes.
When you say people have a 99.9% chance of surviving, not sure where you got this info from try telling that to the families of the 40,000+ that have died
There is a big difference between not wearing a mask for influenza and pneumonia
(most likely cause of catching Pneumonia is bacteria and viruses living in your nose, sinuses, or mouth and spreading to your lungs) and there are vaccines for Influenza and pneumonia. For Covid19 there is none, and I believe that it will be many years before there is one that is effective and side effects free.
Do you honestly think that a healthy diet, vitamins, being happy, keep your immune system high, being happy may keep you mind healthy, and a healthy diet helps if you do catch Covid19 but it certainly does not prevent you catching Covid19.

Why do they not prevent you from catching it? Immune systems have kept the species going for millions of years. But assuming you are right, then having a healthy immune system will at the very least, prevent you from dying from the disease. You talk about 40,000 people dying of Covid - yet in 1968 85,000 people died of the 'flu and in 1919 200,000 people died of Spanish 'flu - yet we did not lockdown. Furthermore, there is plenty of evidene out there to show that lockdowns do not work - Sweden did not lockdown yet its death rate is lower than ours. Wearing a mask may be fine for you, but not for me: it makes me anxious and my wife tells me that her breathing is affected. There is plenty of evidence out there that masks are bad for you. If you want me to send you links please pm me.

So just to clarify;

Lockdown and restrictions on interaction with people - 40,000 dead
No lockdown and carrying on as normal - 85,000 and 200,000 dead

Surely you’ve just justified that a lockdown is effective, the 40k dead is also with 52 and 101 years of advancement in medical knowledge and science compared to the other pandemics.
Sweden’s death rate may be lower than ours but our countries are wildly different, when you make comparisons between Sweden and their Scandinavian neighbours with similar climates, populations, lifestyles and cultures they come out considerably worse when looking at Norway, Finland and Denmark.
As for there being plenty of evidence that masks are bad for you I’d argue there’s 100x more evidence stating why they’re not harmful for you and how they can help control the pandemic.

Or you could use turkey as an example? 82m people,6,000 deaths! And had a partial lockdown,unless you were under 16 or over 65,who were told to stay home,plus people who had serious underlying conditions.
If as the experts are now saying,it's airborne, a mask will just prevent it entering mouths and noses,eyes are still vulnerable, as is every item of clothes you wear,your hair etc.,cases are rising around the globe,but that's because they are carrying out massive testing ? Where as early on they weren't doing many.
The saddest fact is more people will die because of covid,not with it or of it.

Okay, using Turkey as an example. They’ve conducted a total of 5.9 million tests, compared to the UK where we conducted nearly 2.5million tests in the past 2 weeks and we’ve been testing for nearly 6 months. Obviously not at the same level for the entirety of those 6 months but even within the first few weeks we were doing 50k+ tests every day. As you said the more tests that are carried out the more cases there will be.

As for it being airborne I’m not sure whether it’s been confirmed as airborne or if it’s still only theorised but that shouldn’t be an argument against wearing masks. For the virus to infect you it needs to get inside the body, a virus landing on your hair or clothing isn’t going to infect you, for that to happen it needs to enter via your eyes, nose, mouth which you’ve already pointed out a mask helps prevent 2 of the 3 causes of infection. Masks aren’t meant to remove the chance of infection just reduce it, the same way that people still die in car crashes despite having seatbelts and air bags but if we all drove around without these things deaths from road accidents would presumably skyrocket.

As for your last point, just because you call it a fact doesn’t actually make it a fact.

‘Online conspiracy theories.’

Yawn.

No point in getting into arguments on statistics which are simply distractions.

Disparaging factual reports and documents because they are published and or reported online is rather weak. Are we, in this technological age only to rely on what we see in a newspaper or book?

Are we only to adopt the official narrative of ‘facts’ and arguments given to us by the BBC etc?
If I never read a newspaper or even listen to or watch the mainstream media, do I exist in a thought and information black hole?

There are those, together with their useful idiots who continuously seek to divert divide and mislead us for the purposes of control. Otherwise how else can their plans be carried out without major disturbance, if at all?

After all,

‘‘Authority has every reason to fear the skeptic, for authority can rarely survive in the face of doubt.’’
(Vita Sackville-West)

‘’All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.
(Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf)

"If you want to preserve your power indefinitely, you have to get the consent of the ruled, and this they will do partly by drugs as I foresaw in "Brave New World," partly by these new techniques of propaganda. They will do it by bypassing the sort of rational side of man and appealing to his subconscious and his deeper emotions, and his physiology even, and so, making him actually love his slavery."
(Aldous Huxley)

‘’The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate the unseen mechanisms of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our county… We are governed, our minds are moulded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of...

...in almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.’’
(Psychologist Dr Edwin Bernays 1928).

“Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictatorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”
(Herman Goering, Nuremburg 1945)

It's just a mask.
It's to protect others.
Just to flatten the curve.
It's just a camp.
It's just to protect others.
It's just a vaccine to make you better.
It's just a shower.
(Anon)

Of course the beauty of the web (despite increasing censorship) is that we can become better informed by widening our information gathering and get a picture of what is happening across the world. You obtain access to the stuff that is routinely censored by omission.

What was it about the ‘social credit system’ coming your way soon? Surely just an internet conspiracy theory? What! Compulsory vaccines – no way!

“Australian health execs, politicians float travel bans, tax penalties for COVID vaccine refusers”

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/austr ... -407331810

And of course the fact that the real powers in the world want to use (are using) the Covid thing for their own ends is also a fantasy (well, not actually, because they openly admit it):

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/ ... eat-reset/

In answer to the question why now and what about the economic disruption?

This gives them the excuse to do over a relatively short period what they couldn’t achieve under normal circumstances and the politicians can all shrug their shoulders and blame Covid. You’ll mostly say O.K. grumble and carry on. And it’s you and your children and grandchildren who pay the bill.(And of course there's a US Presidential election in November).

Globalism = Communism for Bankers.

Just an FYI. Quoting Hitler to defend your view probably isn't the best plan.