Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:30 am
Sneggyblubird wrote:glas wrote:What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?
Much easier to criticise Boris?
In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.
Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.
Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:54 am
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:00 am
piledriver64 wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:glas wrote:What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?
Much easier to criticise Boris?
In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.
Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.
And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.
Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?
Please don't try to justify that, at least.
Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:10 am
piledriver64 wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:glas wrote:What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?
Much easier to criticise Boris?
In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.
Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.
And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.
Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?
Please don't try to justify that, at least.
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:07 am
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:36 am
ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:"it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world..."
Do you think Gavin Williamson / Kirsty Williams / SNP / N Ireland Assembly are the ones that created this algorithm ?
Do you think they had a day to day input on the algo and how it works etc ?
They didn't - and further more they were told by the relevant quangos / certification bodies (like WJEC) that all was ok - until a few days before the results were about to be published.
As of yesterday the WJEC still insisted that the algorithm was the best way to calculate the results.
So you need to apportion your blame appropriately. If you blame Williamson then you also need to blame all the other assemblies etc - OffQual / WJEC etc. You cant have it both ways. They all used the same method, they all decided that method was not for them and they all changed the method they used.
ps the teacher assessment method when cross checked in 2019 was shown to only be 16% accurate - but dont let that put you off.
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:40 am
ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:"it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world..."
Do you think Gavin Williamson / Kirsty Williams / SNP / N Ireland Assembly are the ones that created this algorithm ?
Do you think they had a day to day input on the algo and how it works etc ?
They didn't - and further more they were told by the relevant quangos / certification bodies (like WJEC) that all was ok - until a few days before the results were about to be published.
As of yesterday the WJEC still insisted that the algorithm was the best way to calculate the results.
So you need to apportion your blame appropriately. If you blame Williamson then you also need to blame all the other assemblies etc - OffQual / WJEC etc. You cant have it both ways. They all used the same method, they all decided that method was not for them and they all changed the method they used.
ps the teacher assessment method when cross checked in 2019 was shown to only be 16% accurate - but dont let that put you off.
Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:41 am
skidemin wrote:piledriver64 wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:glas wrote:What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?
Much easier to criticise Boris?
In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.
Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.
And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.
Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?
Please don't try to justify that, at least.
it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:14 pm
piledriver64 wrote:skidemin wrote:piledriver64 wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:glas wrote:What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?
Much easier to criticise Boris?
In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.
Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.
And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.
Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?
Please don't try to justify that, at least.
it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...
But using the school is just as flawed![]()
We all know, as do teachers, that there can be good school years and bad ones within the same school.
Similarly, what happens when a really good, new management team takes over and transforms performance, again the system does not take that into account. Again, that has happened on a number of occasions recently.
The point about teachers being culpable for over marking is valid to an extent but given the obvious weaknesses of the system put in place why should it be that the pupils are the ones who suffer ?
Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:27 pm
pembroke allan wrote:piledriver64 wrote:skidemin wrote:piledriver64 wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:glas wrote:What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?
Much easier to criticise Boris?
In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.
Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.
And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.
Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?
Please don't try to justify that, at least.
it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...
But using the school is just as flawed![]()
We all know, as do teachers, that there can be good school years and bad ones within the same school.
Similarly, what happens when a really good, new management team takes over and transforms performance, again the system does not take that into account. Again, that has happened on a number of occasions recently.
The point about teachers being culpable for over marking is valid to an extent but given the obvious weaknesses of the system put in place why should it be that the pupils are the ones who suffer ?
Listening to various people you get impression that it's ok to downgrade pupils by 3 levels using algorithms but it's not ok to mark upwards using teachers marks? For various reasons using algorithms is a flawed method as it favours high achieving schools and private sector pupils above poorer or low achieving schools as its shown by differences in the marks given out
Wed Aug 19, 2020 5:36 pm
Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:19 pm
pembroke allan wrote:piledriver64 wrote:skidemin wrote:piledriver64 wrote:Sneggyblubird wrote:glas wrote:What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?
Much easier to criticise Boris?
In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.
Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.
And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.
Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?
Please don't try to justify that, at least.
it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...
But using the school is just as flawed![]()
We all know, as do teachers, that there can be good school years and bad ones within the same school.
Similarly, what happens when a really good, new management team takes over and transforms performance, again the system does not take that into account. Again, that has happened on a number of occasions recently.
The point about teachers being culpable for over marking is valid to an extent but given the obvious weaknesses of the system put in place why should it be that the pupils are the ones who suffer ?
Listening to various people you get impression that it's ok to downgrade pupils by 3 levels using algorithms but it's not ok to mark upwards using teachers marks? For various reasons using algorithms is a flawed method as it favours high achieving schools and private sector pupils above poorer or low achieving schools as its shown by differences in the marks given out
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:38 am
Bluebina wrote:skidemin wrote:mugsy wrote:They are a complete and utter shambles!!
and whatever method you use there will be a big chunk of students unhappy.. do you have the keep all happy answer ?
Poor little darlings, didn't you know they are all grade A students this year, and if it wasn't for the government they would all be in Oxford!
Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:16 pm
ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:"it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world..."
Do you think Gavin Williamson / Kirsty Williams / SNP / N Ireland Assembly are the ones that created this algorithm ?
Do you think they had a day to day input on the algo and how it works etc ?
They didn't - and further more they were told by the relevant quangos / certification bodies (like WJEC) that all was ok - until a few days before the results were about to be published.
As of yesterday the WJEC still insisted that the algorithm was the best way to calculate the results.
So you need to apportion your blame appropriately. If you blame Williamson then you also need to blame all the other assemblies etc - OffQual / WJEC etc. You cant have it both ways. They all used the same method, they all decided that method was not for them and they all changed the method they used.
ps the teacher assessment method when cross checked in 2019 was shown to only be 16% accurate - but dont let that put you off.
Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:14 pm
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:09 am
TopCat CCFC wrote:More U - Turns on the way
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:10 am
ReesWestonSuperMare wrote:TopCat CCFC wrote:More U - Turns on the way
Who by this time Gavin Williamson (Westminister Govt) , Kirsty Williams (Welsh Assembly) , John Swinney (Scottish Parliament) or Peter Weir (N Ireland Assembly). They've all done a U turn over the last few weeks and over rode their relevant education standards board policy. Gone from one flawed system to another flawed system.