' The biggest back tracker ever '

What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?

Much easier to criticise Boris?

In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.

Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.

And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.

Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?

Please don't try to justify that, at least.

Having worked in the statistics industry for a good number of years (its not my fault! a man has to work!) the problem with algorithms such as this is that they do not look for the right answer. They seek an answer that is plausible when compared to previous years results and the ongoing trends year on year.

This would mean that looking at the performance of individual schools over the period would be one of the measures that would be used. Postcode would not be relevant, but which school a candidate attended would.

For instance if a particular school had achieved 30% A and A* grades in the previous 5 years it would look very odd if that figure suddenly jumped to 40%. The algorithm would seek to bring the grades down more in line with previous school performance.

My personal view is that having said that teachers would estimate grades that all four home nations should have accepted that this would result in grade inflation this year and not used an algorithm to smooth things out. No politicians governing a nation got this right instead they all look a little more foolish. (If thats possible)

What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?

Much easier to criticise Boris?

In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.

Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.

And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.

Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?

Please don't try to justify that, at least.

It wasn't. The school's results from the past 3 years were.

Any moderation is done anonymously as is marking exam papers (under normal circumstances).

The algorithm was correct (however undoubtedly controversial). It worked fine. Teachers over graded pupils and results were correctly brought in to line.

The outrage should be with the teachers. (Probably the same ones who have over graded the last three years previously).

What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?

Much easier to criticise Boris?

In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.

Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.

And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.

Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?

Please don't try to justify that, at least.

it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...

"it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world..."

Do you think Gavin Williamson / Kirsty Williams / SNP / N Ireland Assembly are the ones that created this algorithm ?
Do you think they had a day to day input on the algo and how it works etc ?

They didn't - and further more they were told by the relevant quangos / certification bodies (like WJEC) that all was ok - until a few days before the results were about to be published.

As of yesterday the WJEC still insisted that the algorithm was the best way to calculate the results.

So you need to apportion your blame appropriately. If you blame Williamson then you also need to blame all the other assemblies etc - OffQual / WJEC etc. You cant have it both ways. They all used the same method, they all decided that method was not for them and they all changed the method they used.

ps the teacher assessment method when cross checked in 2019 was shown to only be 16% accurate - but dont let that put you off.

"it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world..."

Do you think Gavin Williamson / Kirsty Williams / SNP / N Ireland Assembly are the ones that created this algorithm ?
Do you think they had a day to day input on the algo and how it works etc ?

They didn't - and further more they were told by the relevant quangos / certification bodies (like WJEC) that all was ok - until a few days before the results were about to be published.

As of yesterday the WJEC still insisted that the algorithm was the best way to calculate the results.

So you need to apportion your blame appropriately. If you blame Williamson then you also need to blame all the other assemblies etc - OffQual / WJEC etc. You cant have it both ways. They all used the same method, they all decided that method was not for them and they all changed the method they used.

ps the teacher assessment method when cross checked in 2019 was shown to only be 16% accurate - but dont let that put you off.

Agreed

"it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world..."

Do you think Gavin Williamson / Kirsty Williams / SNP / N Ireland Assembly are the ones that created this algorithm ?
Do you think they had a day to day input on the algo and how it works etc ?

They didn't - and further more they were told by the relevant quangos / certification bodies (like WJEC) that all was ok - until a few days before the results were about to be published.

As of yesterday the WJEC still insisted that the algorithm was the best way to calculate the results.

So you need to apportion your blame appropriately. If you blame Williamson then you also need to blame all the other assemblies etc - OffQual / WJEC etc. You cant have it both ways. They all used the same method, they all decided that method was not for them and they all changed the method they used.

ps the teacher assessment method when cross checked in 2019 was shown to only be 16% accurate - but dont let that put you off.

Wow! Is that true, 16% teacher assessment accurate??!

Incredible.

What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?

Much easier to criticise Boris?

In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.

Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.

And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.

Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?

Please don't try to justify that, at least.

it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...

But using the school is just as flawed

We all know, as do teachers, that there can be good school years and bad ones within the same school.

Similarly, what happens when a really good, new management team takes over and transforms performance, again the system does not take that into account. Again, that has happened on a number of occasions recently.

The point about teachers being culpable for over marking is valid to an extent but given the obvious weaknesses of the system put in place why should it be that the pupils are the ones who suffer ?

What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?

Much easier to criticise Boris?

In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.

Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.

And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.

Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?

Please don't try to justify that, at least.

it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...

But using the school is just as flawed

We all know, as do teachers, that there can be good school years and bad ones within the same school.

Similarly, what happens when a really good, new management team takes over and transforms performance, again the system does not take that into account. Again, that has happened on a number of occasions recently.

The point about teachers being culpable for over marking is valid to an extent but given the obvious weaknesses of the system put in place why should it be that the pupils are the ones who suffer ?

Listening to various people you get impression that it's ok to downgrade pupils by 3 levels using algorithms but it's not ok to mark upwards using teachers marks? For various reasons using algorithms is a flawed method as it favours high achieving schools and private sector pupils above poorer or low achieving schools as its shown by differences in the marks given out

What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?

Much easier to criticise Boris?

In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.

Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.

And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.

Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?

Please don't try to justify that, at least.

it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...

But using the school is just as flawed

We all know, as do teachers, that there can be good school years and bad ones within the same school.

Similarly, what happens when a really good, new management team takes over and transforms performance, again the system does not take that into account. Again, that has happened on a number of occasions recently.

The point about teachers being culpable for over marking is valid to an extent but given the obvious weaknesses of the system put in place why should it be that the pupils are the ones who suffer ?

Listening to various people you get impression that it's ok to downgrade pupils by 3 levels using algorithms but it's not ok to mark upwards using teachers marks? For various reasons using algorithms is a flawed method as it favours high achieving schools and private sector pupils above poorer or low achieving schools as its shown by differences in the marks given out

Exactly my point, although more eloquently put

"Listening to various people you get impression that it's ok to downgrade pupils by 3 levels using algorithms but it's not ok to mark upwards using teachers marks? For various reasons using algorithms is a flawed method as it favours high achieving schools and private sector pupils above poorer or low achieving schools as its shown by differences in the marks given out[/quote]

Exactly my point, although more eloquently put"

The algorithm is not flawed - the people who developed the rules for it have introduced flaws.
Why some schools can only award a set number of A* is strange, post code lottery in some respects.
There is no solution here , as said when checked for accuracy in 2016 only 16% of the teacher assesments were actually correct for A grades. So obviously as a final solution teacher assessments are very flawed indeed.

It seems even if just using the exams and how they are finally graded has also exposed some flaws. Obviously we dont have exam data this year.

England,Wales,Scotland, N Ireland various education boards choose to use the algo as a way of calculating the grades. They all choose to change their minds and use a different flawed system instead. Nothing can be done about it this year.

Moving forward - A level exams should be online tests sat in school , that do not involve human marking. The kids are asked a difficult question 0 if they get it right they are asked another difficult question - if they get 10 difficult questions right - they get top marks.

If they get a difficult question wrong, they are asked 2 less difficult questions and so on. That way you will eventually find the level they are at and grade them accordingly.

They do this for Microsoft / Cisco / Google qualifications and it is very good at accurately giving you a level of subject knowledge.

What's happening in Wales ? Also Scotland while we're talking about it.
Didn't they use the same technique?
No one mentions them, but they had the same problems.
Anyone calling for Kirsty Williams to be sacked ?

Much easier to criticise Boris?

In fact the logarithm proved to be quite accurate as teachers had over estimated the results (so as not to upset the children).
The over estimates were about 40% and the actual figures now being talked about who had their grades increase, was about 40%
This is from the Welsh Assembly's own figures.

Nah,can't trust any algorithm that includes your postcode as part of it's solution.It's easy to critisise Boris because he makes it so.The mans a total feckup.He;s done his bit by hoodwinking the electorate but now the Tories ought to get someone in thats actually got a scooby.

And that's the key to why this government and it's departments got it so dismally wrong.

Why on earth should a pupil's (or school's) post code should be taken into account ?

Please don't try to justify that, at least.

it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world...

But using the school is just as flawed

We all know, as do teachers, that there can be good school years and bad ones within the same school.

Similarly, what happens when a really good, new management team takes over and transforms performance, again the system does not take that into account. Again, that has happened on a number of occasions recently.

The point about teachers being culpable for over marking is valid to an extent but given the obvious weaknesses of the system put in place why should it be that the pupils are the ones who suffer ?

Listening to various people you get impression that it's ok to downgrade pupils by 3 levels using algorithms but it's not ok to mark upwards using teachers marks? For various reasons using algorithms is a flawed method as it favours high achieving schools and private sector pupils above poorer or low achieving schools as its shown by differences in the marks given out

Come on Allan even you're more sensible than that. Possibly 1 or 2 pupils out of all of them down 3 grades. The vast majority just the one. That's pretty normal die to moderation.

It's human nature to want to award underachievers, especially more so in an empathetic career like teaching. So more are always marked higher than they should be. It's why there is a moderation process. The process of fairness.

The high achievers are generally always going to achieve. It's harder to find fault with their gradings. Because in my experience they have actually put the work in. Can't blag that.

As for private schools. I'm sorry but you really do get what you pay for. Covid has proven that. It's a sad fact and many want to ignore that. But life isn't fair.

They are a complete and utter shambles!!

and whatever method you use there will be a big chunk of students unhappy.. do you have the keep all happy answer ?

Poor little darlings, didn't you know they are all grade A students this year, and if it wasn't for the government they would all be in Oxford!

"it was school not postcode no matter how much you think saying postcode elevates the flawed point that the tories are to blame despite the fact its effected results in Wales and Scotland too...
and of course you have to consider a schools previous performance... some schools are much better than others. how can you just pretend they are not ? its unfortunate but real world..."

Do you think Gavin Williamson / Kirsty Williams / SNP / N Ireland Assembly are the ones that created this algorithm ?
Do you think they had a day to day input on the algo and how it works etc ?

They didn't - and further more they were told by the relevant quangos / certification bodies (like WJEC) that all was ok - until a few days before the results were about to be published.

As of yesterday the WJEC still insisted that the algorithm was the best way to calculate the results.

So you need to apportion your blame appropriately. If you blame Williamson then you also need to blame all the other assemblies etc - OffQual / WJEC etc. You cant have it both ways. They all used the same method, they all decided that method was not for them and they all changed the method they used.

ps the teacher assessment method when cross checked in 2019 was shown to only be 16% accurate - but dont let that put you off.

uhhhh

More U - Turns on the way

More U - Turns on the way

Who by this time Gavin Williamson (Westminister Govt) , Kirsty Williams (Welsh Assembly) , John Swinney (Scottish Parliament) or Peter Weir (N Ireland Assembly). They've all done a U turn over the last few weeks and over rode their relevant education standards board policy. Gone from one flawed system to another flawed system.

More U - Turns on the way

Who by this time Gavin Williamson (Westminister Govt) , Kirsty Williams (Welsh Assembly) , John Swinney (Scottish Parliament) or Peter Weir (N Ireland Assembly). They've all done a U turn over the last few weeks and over rode their relevant education standards board policy. Gone from one flawed system to another flawed system.

Some people just won't hear it mate.

Wait until they have a read of Vince's latest statement. They'll soon change their mind on Drakeford.