Just Like To Say Its Not Up To The NHS To Supply

And you should all look at the facts before ranting over this.

All the people that have sadly passed in care homes SHOULD have been admitted to hospital and there are sadly thousands.

The Care homes are helping the NHS by keeping these people within the homes and not making hospitals take them.

Some but not all are receiving end of life care anyway and need multi-faceted care anyway(not cheap).

If the Gov/NHS want the carers to look after the people in the homes they have a duty to provide these carers with the right PPE it should not be down to the individual homes no matter what they charge.

I've just scrapped the surface here and needs to be properly understood before passing judgement.

Martin,

I totally know the facts , but in care homes they are not trained nurses , they are helpers and yes they’ve kept them out of hospitals.

I am saying the owners shout every paying for everything for their patients and also be trying to get everything that’s needed themselves as well.

I know for a fact the owners make fortunes out if the old and vulnerable so should now put some if that money back in to them and not just rely on the Govt or NHS.

Don’t you agree?


Anyway what was your point with your volatile answer ?

As I had not said a word about beds, but now you mention it , I will say it again these are not trained nurses.

In the last week alone I know of a number of close friends parents / grandparents who have died in care homes and I know a big poster on here who sister is a carer who became very ill through no protection at a care home and his granddaughter now managing it, the Wealthy owner owns 4 and has not spent a penny keeps asking the NHS.


The figures of deaths have been kept quite so far .

So yes I am saying these owners should also take responsibility.



So what don’t you agree with ?

Just Like To Say Its Not Up To The NHS or Govt To Supply These Priate Care Homes With PPE As The Amount They Charge A Person They Should Make Sure The Residents And Staff Have All The PPE They Need Pure Greed On Them That Own Them

Private Care owners make fortunes and they should be getting the PPE themselves and paying for all of it themselves.


Tony Blair privatised most of these.

OPINIONS?

Have to agree with you,charge ridiculous amount of money and should fund it themselves.

100% they do and should take responsibility.

And you should all look at the facts before ranting over this.

All the people that have sadly passed in care homes SHOULD have been admitted to hospital and there are sadly thousands.

The Care homes are helping the NHS by keeping these people within the homes and not making hospitals take them.

Some but not all are receiving end of life care anyway and need multi-faceted care anyway(not cheap).

If the Gov/NHS want the carers to look after the people in the homes they have a duty to provide these carers with the right PPE it should not be down to the individual homes no matter what they charge.

I've just scrapped the surface here and needs to be properly understood before passing judgement.

That's a very generous defence of the care homes but certainly not reflective of my experience of care homes.

Firstly, care homes do not make the decision as to whether their residents go to hospital or not. It is a clinical decision made by a GP or Paramedic, if they decide the residents need hospital treatment they get it. The only people who may have an influence on that would be the family in very rare/serious cases.

Secondly when you say "some" are receiving end of life care that, again in my experience, is an absolutely tiny minority. In our experience the home had around 150 residents and only 2 or 3 were what I would class as end of life. Those people will also be paying significantly more for nursing care but if they have been successful in being granted Continuous Health Care (CHC) allowance (a tortuous process that took until after my mother's death to be granted!)that will be paid to the Care Home by the NHS, so yet again the Care Home does not lose out.

Just for clarity, none of this is a criticism of the care provided, it was nothing short of brilliant. The criticism is of the huge firms running these homes and the way they treat their amazing staff.

YOUR SPOT ON


He has actually used it to point score over me, very sad.

WHAT IS HIS POINT TO TWIST THE TOPIC , BUT NOT ACTUALLY AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH WHAT I WROTE.

I know my whole facts on private nursing homes they make fortunes out of the vulnerable and now is the time for them to provide as well from the owners pockets not the NHS.


I hope he realises we are talking about Private care homes.

As to saving beds, these are caters not nurses and the ones really ill need the hospitals.

But the point is the owners who make fortunes should look after ALL their staff .

At the Labour Party Conference in 1997 Tony Blair said in his speech, "I don't want our children brought up in a country where the only way pensioners can get long term care is by selling their home"

Well in his 10 years as Prime Minister ALL he achieved was to reinforce the Thatcher policy of "Competition" in ALL markets and as a result the UK has built up a massive and highly profitable industry supplying social care, but still pensioners have to sell their homes to fund care or their family have to contribute or pay all the costs themselves.

This article highlights how profitable social care can be and shows that many of these "For Profit" companies are owned by offshore investors who will follow any old trick to avoid paying tax on their profits, including charging excessive rents on properties.


https://inews.co.uk/news/health/care-ho ... nds-920264

Whilst investors cream off high profits many of the people doing the actual care are on minimum wage and zero hour contracts, in my opinion it's a disgrace. I believe the government must step in and supply PPE where it's needed during this crisis but I hope the Government charge them for every item.

In the last election campaign Boris Johnson was the latest Politician to promise to sort this issue out but like many before him I doubt he will.

A lot of truth there Gary.

I really hope Boris breaks from all the false promises both Conservatives & Labour have been doing in the past . And really does what he has promised when this is all over .

At the Labour Party Conference in 1997 Tony Blair said in his speech, "I don't want our children brought up in a country where the only way pensioners can get long term care is by selling their home"

Well in his 10 years as Prime Minister ALL he achieved was to reinforce the Thatcher policy of "Competition" in ALL markets and as a result the UK has built up a massive and highly profitable industry supplying social care, but still pensioners have to sell their homes to fund care or their family have to contribute or pay all the costs themselves.

This article highlights how profitable social care can be and shows that many of these "For Profit" companies are owned by offshore investors who will follow any old trick to avoid paying tax on their profits, including charging excessive rents on properties.


https://inews.co.uk/news/health/care-ho ... nds-920264

Whilst investors cream off high profits many of the people doing the actual care are on minimum wage and zero hour contracts, in my opinion it's a disgrace. I believe the government must step in and supply PPE where it's needed during this crisis but I hope the Government charge them for every item.

In the last election campaign Boris Johnson was the latest Politician to promise to sort this issue out but like many before him I doubt he will.

And I would agree if the care homes were charging the NHS/GOV for treating Covid-19 patients.

I doubt many, if any, care homes are equipped to offer the medical intervention required to treat a resident with Covid-19 but sadly I really do believe that the NHS is probably pushing patients back to care homes rather than have them in hospital. Why? because with the exception of Covid 19 patients our NHS has been effectively shutdown.

After this crisis is over I'm sure the reality of what is happening will come out and you can add care home residents to the thousands of patients with life limiting issues like cancer who have had their treatments suspended. The NHS has a duty of care to it's patients and staff and be it PPE for staff or treatment when required they have a duty of care to both staff and patients alike.

However going back to the thread care homes also have a duty of care to their staff and failing to ensure adequate and suitable supplies of PPE for their staff is a massive failing on their part. In the current circumstances it is only right that the Government step in to provide PPE but they need to charge for these items as they hace been paid for by the tax payer and they should not be expected to subsidise private profit making organisations.

All employers have a duty of care towards their employees under the HASAW Act, and that includes providing PPE where required. Now, I know these are different times so I think the GOVT should provide whatever PPE is required and charge the owners at a later time. Something to remember though, is PPE is not a guarantee of safety but makes it less likely that the person will be affected.

All employers have a duty of care towards their employees under the HASAW Act, and that includes providing PPE where required. Now, I know these are different times so I think the GOVT should provide whatever PPE is required and charge the owners at a later time. Something to remember though, is PPE is not a guarantee of safety but makes it less likely that the person will be affected.

Of course they should all get it.

But Private owners should pay for everything and also I believe they should also be trying to buy / provide it themselves as well.

And help out.

And you should all look at the facts before ranting over this.

All the people that have sadly passed in care homes SHOULD have been admitted to hospital and there are sadly thousands.

The Care homes are helping the NHS by keeping these people within the homes and not making hospitals take them.

Some but not all are receiving end of life care anyway and need multi-faceted care anyway(not cheap).

If the Gov/NHS want the carers to look after the people in the homes they have a duty to provide these carers with the right PPE it should not be down to the individual homes no matter what they charge.

I've just scrapped the surface here and needs to be properly understood before passing judgement.

Martin,

I totally know the facts , but in care homes they are not trained nurses , they are helpers and yes they’ve kept them out of hospitals.

I am saying the owners shout every paying for everything for their patients and also be trying to get everything that’s needed themselves as well.

I know for a fact the owners make fortunes out if the old and vulnerable so should now put some if that money back in to them and not just rely on the Govt or NHS.

Don’t you agree?


Anyway what was your point with your volatile answer ?

As I had not said a word about beds, but now you mention it , I will say it again these are not trained nurses.

In the last week alone I know of a number of close friends parents / grandparents who have died in care homes and I know a big poster on here who sister is a carer who became very ill through no protection at a care home and his granddaughter now managing it, the Wealthy owner owns 4 and has not spent a penny keeps asking the NHS.


The figures of deaths have been kept quite so far .

So yes I am saying these owners should also take responsibility.



So what don’t you agree with ?

Martin, you’ve been on line and read all this, why not just simply answer the original topic and either agree or disagree?

Instead of saying we have know idea of the facts.

As I do on the topic I have started regarding the money they earn and what they actually put back in to the care homes .

Totally agree. They should source their own ppe. Just proves profit is they main objective.

Totally agree and these Private Care homes should be outed & shamed when all this is over.

Absolutely correct. These private care homes charge horrendous amounts of money.

My mother died last year but prior to that we were paying £1450 per week (admittedly for full care that was required) and that isn't an unusual amount around here. It's not as if you can shop around, you just have to take what places are available at the time that you need them, often at a time of crisis.

It's not just the PPE issues , either. There has to be something wrong with their business model if they can charge that amount but only pay the amazing staff minimum/living wage. That just can't be right in a civilised society as this pandemic has highlighted.

Rant over

Really Sorry to hear.

I agree, these Private Care homes have made owners fortunes and are run on skeleton low paid staff and do not give the care that is paid for and sadly needed.

I lost my mother due to a private care home.

Admittedly she was not in the best of health when she went into the place but she deteriated very quickly through what I though was depression. I had to send her there as I was not in a psoition to care for her myself and i certainly was not qualified. It was a move I thought would be the best for her but it had the opposite effect. For years I had a guilty living with me until certain information was revealed when the owners sold the place off to someone else.

Then these care homes seemed to "drug" their patients up for the easier life. I recall visiting the place to see the staff longing about while my mother was in pain. It was only years later I leanrt about this and as you can imagine I'm totally against this care home business model.

The bottom line I can only come up with is that someone up top is making alot of money out of this by not providing the right care. They cut back to save then when it gets too hot they sell on. Come to think of it most businesses do this.

I will reply later as this will take more than a couple sentences and I'm busy at the moment.I am also permanently signed in but that does not mean I'm looking at this 24/7.

Totally agree. They should source their own ppe. Just proves profit is they main objective.

Totally agree and these Private Care homes should be outed & shamed when all this is over.

Absolutely correct. These private care homes charge horrendous amounts of money.

My mother died last year but prior to that we were paying £1450 per week (admittedly for full care that was required) and that isn't an unusual amount around here. It's not as if you can shop around, you just have to take what places are available at the time that you need them, often at a time of crisis.

It's not just the PPE issues , either. There has to be something wrong with their business model if they can charge that amount but only pay the amazing staff minimum/living wage. That just can't be right in a civilised society as this pandemic has highlighted.

Rant over

Really Sorry to hear.

I agree, these Private Care homes have made owners fortunes and are run on skeleton low paid staff and do not give the care that is paid for and sadly needed.

I lost my mother due to a private care home.

Admittedly she was not in the best of health when she went into the place but she deteriated very quickly through what I though was depression. I had to send her there as I was not in a psoition to care for her myself and i certainly was not qualified. It was a move I thought would be the best for her but it had the opposite effect. For years I had a guilty living with me until certain information was revealed when the owners sold the place off to someone else.

Then these care homes seemed to "drug" their patients up for the easier life. I recall visiting the place to see the staff longing about while my mother was in pain. It was only years later I leanrt about this and as you can imagine I'm totally against this care home business model.

The bottom line I can only come up with is that someone up top is making alot of money out of this by not providing the right care. They cut back to save then when it gets too hot they sell on. Come to think of it most businesses do this.

I remember you talking to me about your Mother Ian, really sorry to hear .

But sadly your so right about these money grabbing private home care owners who treat staff like shit and pay terrible low wages and look after the old very basic , but charge fortunes.

So I decided to out them on here and twitter and say they should pay towards PPE and Put more back in to the care homes and take some responsibility.

I will reply later as this will take more than a couple sentences and I'm busy at the moment.I am also permanently signed in but that does not mean I'm looking at this 24/7.

Martin,

Just asking you to answer the actual topic not twist the topic and say we don’t know the facts as we do on what we are discussing as we all
Including myself have had to be involved with these private care homes and seen it for ourselves first hand.

I also know a lot of owners in Wales who have made fortunes out of them and neglected them.

Remember the staff are carers not nurses, so as to saving hospital beds which you changed the subject to is wrong as if I’ll you should be in hospital.

I will reply later as this will take more than a couple sentences and I'm busy at the moment.I am also permanently signed in but that does not mean I'm looking at this 24/7.

Martin,

Just asking you to answer the actual topic not twist the topic and say we don’t know the facts as we do on what we are discussing as we all
Including myself have had to be involved with these private care homes and seen it for ourselves first hand.

I also know a lot of owners in Wales who have made fortunes out of them and neglected them.

Remember the staff are carers not nurses, so as to saving hospital beds which you changed the subject to is wrong as if I’ll you should be in hospital.

Just one point of clarity, any care home that offers "Nursing care" must have qualified nurses on site at all times (I'm not sure what the ratio to patients is) but the vast majority of staff are carers as you say.

I will reply later as this will take more than a couple sentences and I'm busy at the moment.I am also permanently signed in but that does not mean I'm looking at this 24/7.

Martin,

Just asking you to answer the actual topic not twist the topic and say we don’t know the facts as we do on what we are discussing as we all
Including myself have had to be involved with these private care homes and seen it for ourselves first hand.

I also know a lot of owners in Wales who have made fortunes out of them and neglected them.

Remember the staff are carers not nurses, so as to saving hospital beds which you changed the subject to is wrong as if I’ll you should be in hospital.

Just one point of clarity, any care home that offers "Nursing care" must have qualified nurses on site at all times (I'm not sure what the ratio to patients is) but the vast majority of staff are carers as you say.

Yes your absolutely right.

I don’t know the numbers, but they are low the amount of proper nurses in the private care homes I personally know of.

Whilst on surface I agree with the point about overcharging. My father in law is in a home and they charge £1087 a week.
They use carers on the minimum wage. However,what is happening is the NHS in the UK is refusing to take care home covid 19 patients to hospital. Thus, the care home becomes a hospital. There are no ventilators in these homes. No doctors unless a doctor owns the care home.Catch covid in a care home and it's a death sentence.Remember these people are some persons
father.mother,uncle .aunt or friend.They are human beings.
If these care homes are on lock down how is the virus getting into these homes.
One resident had died in the home my father in law is in. That is a miracle in itself.
PPE is required not only to protect the staff but also the residents who have not caught the virus yet.
The care home my father in law is in think he’s had the virus. However,because there’s no testing kits they are not sure.
As long as he stays covid 19 free I don’t care who pays for the PPE.
One last point even if the care home pays for the PPE when will they get the supplies from?

STICKYWICKET


'Not true' UK government ignored manufacturer on PPE
The government has had more than 8,000 offers from suppliers of personal protective equipment (PPE) and is prioritising those of “larger volumes”, Downing St says.

Amid criticism that companies have not had offers taken up, the prime minister’s spokesman said the government needed to make sure they met safety and quality standards.

The spokesman said it was “not true” that the government had ignored one particular company, Veenak, saying “they registered the offer on April 5th and would have got an immediate response.”

“We are working as hard as we can with international partners to bring PPE in and at the same time trying to increase domestic supply,” he said.

Regarding a consignment of PPE from Turkey, the government was “continuing to work to ensure this shipment is delivered as soon as it is ready.”

There had been consternation after the government said the shipment would arrive on Sunday, but it turned out not to be ready.

STICKYWICKET


'Not true' UK government ignored manufacturer on PPE
The government has had more than 8,000 offers from suppliers of personal protective equipment (PPE) and is prioritising those of “larger volumes”, Downing St says.

Amid criticism that companies have not had offers taken up, the prime minister’s spokesman said the government needed to make sure they met safety and quality standards.

The spokesman said it was “not true” that the government had ignored one particular company, Veenak, saying “they registered the offer on April 5th and would have got an immediate response.”

“We are working as hard as we can with international partners to bring PPE in and at the same time trying to increase domestic supply,” he said.

Regarding a consignment of PPE from Turkey, the government was “continuing to work to ensure this shipment is delivered as soon as it is ready.”

There had been consternation after the government said the shipment would arrive on Sunday, but it turned out not to be ready.

Are you a spokesman for the Tory party.
I just stated what's going on in the care homes.

:thumbright:

STICKYWICKET


'Not true' UK government ignored manufacturer on PPE
The government has had more than 8,000 offers from suppliers of personal protective equipment (PPE) and is prioritising those of “larger volumes”, Downing St says.

Amid criticism that companies have not had offers taken up, the prime minister’s spokesman said the government needed to make sure they met safety and quality standards.

The spokesman said it was “not true” that the government had ignored one particular company, Veenak, saying “they registered the offer on April 5th and would have got an immediate response.”

“We are working as hard as we can with international partners to bring PPE in and at the same time trying to increase domestic supply,” he said.

Regarding a consignment of PPE from Turkey, the government was “continuing to work to ensure this shipment is delivered as soon as it is ready.”

There had been consternation after the government said the shipment would arrive on Sunday, but it turned out not to be ready.

Are you a spokesman for the Tory party.
I just stated what's going on in the care homes.

No i am not - do not follow any party - making a balanced point of what's out there -
8,000 offers and they still can't get it right .
Care / Day homes whatever you want to call it - my miss runs 2 .
So do you think i am happy with what is going on - not to mention our youngest who works i think by you .

PPE 'bigger challenge' than virus testing

Health Minister Vaughan Gething says that securing personal protective equipment (PPE) is a “bigger priority” than challenges on testing.

There is enough stock of all items to last for “a few days,” he said, but there were "very real concerns” about the issue in government.

“Now we have enough of stocks of all items to last for a few days,” Mr Gething said, “partly because of the mutual aid we received from other UK countries, partly because of the UK supplies that have come in that we've got our population share from, but we're not in a position to say that we have weeks and weeks of advanced stock on all of those items.

“Just because we're not in the position that England found itself in on the weekend, that does not mean there are no concerns here and they're very real concerns within the government.

“That's why in particular I mentioned masks and gowns as items we're particularly looking to source, and to stock within this week to make sure that our staff do have enough supplies to go out and keep on doing their job.”

PPE 'bigger challenge' than virus testing

Health Minister Vaughan Gething says that securing personal protective equipment (PPE) is a “bigger priority” than challenges on testing.

There is enough stock of all items to last for “a few days,” he said, but there were "very real concerns” about the issue in government.

“Now we have enough of stocks of all items to last for a few days,” Mr Gething said, “partly because of the mutual aid we received from other UK countries, partly because of the UK supplies that have come in that we've got our population share from, but we're not in a position to say that we have weeks and weeks of advanced stock on all of those items.

“Just because we're not in the position that England found itself in on the weekend, that does not mean there are no concerns here and they're very real concerns within the government.

“That's why in particular I mentioned masks and gowns as items we're particularly looking to source, and to stock within this week to make sure that our staff do have enough supplies to go out and keep on doing their job.”

There's no care homes where I live mate.
Not sure what your on about there mate

PPE 'bigger challenge' than virus testing

Health Minister Vaughan Gething says that securing personal protective equipment (PPE) is a “bigger priority” than challenges on testing.

There is enough stock of all items to last for “a few days,” he said, but there were "very real concerns” about the issue in government.

“Now we have enough of stocks of all items to last for a few days,” Mr Gething said, “partly because of the mutual aid we received from other UK countries, partly because of the UK supplies that have come in that we've got our population share from, but we're not in a position to say that we have weeks and weeks of advanced stock on all of those items.

“Just because we're not in the position that England found itself in on the weekend, that does not mean there are no concerns here and they're very real concerns within the government.

“That's why in particular I mentioned masks and gowns as items we're particularly looking to source, and to stock within this week to make sure that our staff do have enough supplies to go out and keep on doing their job.”

There's no care homes where I live mate.
Not sure what your on about there mate

I Have PM you mate -

Deaths in UK for yesterday 852 not included Care homes or home deaths

UK Now 17, 337 Not including care homes or homes

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Agree private care homes are a RIP off

Agree private care homes are a RIP off

Agreed Wez, 1,000% they are rip offs Private Care Homes.

Thankfully there is no PPE issue in the NHS in Wales we in NHS Wales have done well with it in ordering it and keeping supply to frontline NHS staff.

Private run care homes not have PPE or any money from the NHS as the owner should provide PPE to their staff and to the elderly people there as already been said they charge crazy amount of money. but is the problem they cannot get the PPE to buy could be the issue as there is a massive problem in England in care homes and hospitals

I think the whole “care system” should be supported whether nhs or private as this is unpresidented imagine working or staying in a care home with limited Ppe. The tories were too slow to lock everyone down we started at the same time as Germany, we have weak leadership who bullshit us all the time, they even set up fake nhs staff twitter accounts and said great things about the government response. It’s a difficult situation but we’ve been too slow to react unlike Germany and others.

we started at the same time as Germany.....you mean lockdown ?

Laura Ashley workers turn their skills to scrubs

Workers at a Laura Ashley factory in Powys will make scrubs to help NHS doctors and nurses treat patients with coronavirus while the company's long-term future remains in doubt.

The fashion and furnishings firm went into administration in March after failing to find funding to keep it afloat, putting 2,700 jobs at risk at its factories and stores around the world.

Despite the gloomy backdrop, chief executive Katharine Poulter said employees at the company's Texplan factory in Newtown would be helping the battle against Covid-19.

“What has filled me with enormous pride has been the resourcefulness and spirit of the Texplan team," she said.

“They have hatched a plan to support the NHS by making scrubs which we will be doing on a not-for-profit basis."

By the end of April, 25 machinists will return to work to make up to 3,000 sets of scrubs a week.

Powys county councillor Joy Jones said: “To hear that the Laura Ashley team are making scrubs for the NHS at this difficult time is wonderful news.

“Let's hope that there will be light at the end of the tunnel for this firm who are very important to Newtown."

I will reply later as this will take more than a couple sentences and I'm busy at the moment.I am also permanently signed in but that does not mean I'm looking at this 24/7.

Martin??

THERE is enough Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) for frontline NHS staff in Wales according to health minister Vaughan Gething.

However, he said that this is dependent upon supply chains being maintained.

Mr Gething was speaking at the Welsh Government's daily coronavirus briefing earlier today.

"Since the start of the pandemic, 43.8 million items of PPE have been issued across Wales," he said.

"This includes 19.2 million from our pandemic stocks.

"At the moment we have enough PPE for frontline care workers across Wales.

"This relies on our supply chains.

"The two items in highest demand are gowns and masks, but we have enough of these at the moment."

Mr Gething said that the delayed Turkish shipment of PPE has had no impact on NHS Wales and spoke of efforts closer to home being made to make sure that stocks do not run dry.

"Face shields are being made in Margam," he said.

"The Royal Mint has adapted its operations to create visors.
When pressed on whether the stocks of PPE would last for the foreseeable future, Mr Gething said: "The pandemic stock is nearly all distributed.

"We're now relying on replenishing our normal supplies.

"It's really important to understand the level of urgency and priority the government has.

"We have enough stocks of items to last us for a few days.

"We are not in the position to say we have weeks and weeks of these items."

'

There’s a few people here getting muddled about this. Residential care homes cater for social care needs not heath needs. If PPE is considered a health need, it is met by the NHS and free at the point of delivery. If a person is in a nursing home, the NHS pays the part of their care which is nursing related and though it might look like the home provides equipment, it’s really the NHS