Brexit: How far did leave break the law?

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

What about those with political and financial influence giving us dire financial predications based on nothing more than their political preference. Were they lying, incompetent or both ? Whatever the answer it was an absolute scandalous abuse of power. In fact they should have provided impassioned neutral opinions on the economy. They didn't and despite their continuing attempts to rubbish the economy its doing pretty well.

'The cost to Britain is currently £40bn a year, or about £800m a week of lost income, he said. Since the referendum, the UK’s economic growth has slowed while the rest of the world has recorded one of its strongest periods for growth of the past decade.

Vlieghe’s estimate for the weekly cost of Brexit so far is more than double the £350m the Leave campaign claimed could be saved on EU membership fees and instead spent on the NHS. The claim, emblazoned on the side of the campaign’s battlebus, became a key focus for debate in the run-up to the vote.


Vlieghe said in London on Thursday: “That 2% of GDP is not trivial, that’s £40bn or if you prefer it in bus units, it’s £800m a week.”

The Bank has calculated that the cumulative total of lost GDP since 23 June 2016 is £55bn.'
Maybe not recession levels but certainly not lying or incompetence.

I think people might give you a bit more respect if you speak for yourself rather than posting 'copy and pastes'.

So next time you want me to ignore the experts who have spent their lives to be able to accurately analyse and interpret data and instead just 'have a pop at doing it myself'?

The same analysts and experts who didn’t see the 2008 crash coming. Germany is on the brink of recession, Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland are bolloxed. The Eurozone has been an unmitigated disaster only growing 0.8% in 10 years.

Do you mean experts like the Chancellor, who stated in the event of a "leave" vote an emergency budget would be required within weeks to stop the UK economy from falling over the edge of a cliff. Still waiting for that budget, and have been waiting for more than his few weeks. This is the same "expert" who also warned of unemployment going through the roof, shares collapsing, and the country going into recession, and all just by voting "leave". Not quite right with those predictions was he?

Like we're still waiting for:
£350 million a week for the NHS
Not a single job loss
Brexit dividends
Easiest trade deal in history
All the Turks about to 'Invade'
Stay in the single market
Won't pay to leave
All the new trade deals we'll get
Take back control
The Iraqis and Syrians who'd come now that turkey is joining

you do realise the only reason your bothering posting is that we have not left ?

Seen a few interesting articles about brexit today. (Obviously won't get as many responses as a bearded man who looks a bit like Corbyn)

Why is Britain turning a blind eye to Leaves lawbreaking? https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why- ... 6?mode=amp
Here's a video (Article in German but the vid is English) https://www.zdf.de/politik/frontal-21/d ... n-100.html

You lost get over it !!!

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

Crying and begging for a losers re-vote, but want to fix the result!!!

What about those with political and financial influence giving us dire financial predications based on nothing more than their political preference. Were they lying, incompetent or both ? Whatever the answer it was an absolute scandalous abuse of power. In fact they should have provided impassioned neutral opinions on the economy. They didn't and despite their continuing attempts to rubbish the economy its doing pretty well.

'The cost to Britain is currently £40bn a year, or about £800m a week of lost income, he said. Since the referendum, the UK’s economic growth has slowed while the rest of the world has recorded one of its strongest periods for growth of the past decade.

Vlieghe’s estimate for the weekly cost of Brexit so far is more than double the £350m the Leave campaign claimed could be saved on EU membership fees and instead spent on the NHS. The claim, emblazoned on the side of the campaign’s battlebus, became a key focus for debate in the run-up to the vote.


Vlieghe said in London on Thursday: “That 2% of GDP is not trivial, that’s £40bn or if you prefer it in bus units, it’s £800m a week.”

The Bank has calculated that the cumulative total of lost GDP since 23 June 2016 is £55bn.'
Maybe not recession levels but certainly not lying or incompetence.

I think people might give you a bit more respect if you speak for yourself rather than posting 'copy and pastes'.

But if he spoke for himself people would just say "WELL FIND ME A PROPER SOURCE COS I'M A GAMMON AND I DON'T BELIEVE YOU".

As Trump would say "Fake News"

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

Crying and begging for a losers re-vote, but want to fix the result!!!

Do you believe it was fixed.

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

Crying and begging for a losers re-vote, but want to fix the result!!!

Do you believe it was fixed.

Isnt he saying remainers want a re vote so can fix result in favour of remain? And thats what they'll fo givem chance

What about those with political and financial influence giving us dire financial predications based on nothing more than their political preference. Were they lying, incompetent or both ? Whatever the answer it was an absolute scandalous abuse of power. In fact they should have provided impassioned neutral opinions on the economy. They didn't and despite their continuing attempts to rubbish the economy its doing pretty well.

'The cost to Britain is currently £40bn a year, or about £800m a week of lost income, he said. Since the referendum, the UK’s economic growth has slowed while the rest of the world has recorded one of its strongest periods for growth of the past decade.

Vlieghe’s estimate for the weekly cost of Brexit so far is more than double the £350m the Leave campaign claimed could be saved on EU membership fees and instead spent on the NHS. The claim, emblazoned on the side of the campaign’s battlebus, became a key focus for debate in the run-up to the vote.


Vlieghe said in London on Thursday: “That 2% of GDP is not trivial, that’s £40bn or if you prefer it in bus units, it’s £800m a week.”

The Bank has calculated that the cumulative total of lost GDP since 23 June 2016 is £55bn.'
Maybe not recession levels but certainly not lying or incompetence.

I think people might give you a bit more respect if you speak for yourself rather than posting 'copy and pastes'.

But if he spoke for himself people would just say "WELL FIND ME A PROPER SOURCE COS I'M A GAMMON AND I DON'T BELIEVE YOU".

Doesnt really help the cause throwing out childish urban slang that a 12 year old finds cool though does it.

Personally I had no strong feeling either way on the whole thing and didn't even vote hence whilst I normally stay out of these threads but the remainders really do come accross like a bunch of cry babys in this entire saga.

What about those with political and financial influence giving us dire financial predications based on nothing more than their political preference. Were they lying, incompetent or both ? Whatever the answer it was an absolute scandalous abuse of power. In fact they should have provided impassioned neutral opinions on the economy. They didn't and despite their continuing attempts to rubbish the economy its doing pretty well.

'The cost to Britain is currently £40bn a year, or about £800m a week of lost income, he said. Since the referendum, the UK’s economic growth has slowed while the rest of the world has recorded one of its strongest periods for growth of the past decade.

Vlieghe’s estimate for the weekly cost of Brexit so far is more than double the £350m the Leave campaign claimed could be saved on EU membership fees and instead spent on the NHS. The claim, emblazoned on the side of the campaign’s battlebus, became a key focus for debate in the run-up to the vote.


Vlieghe said in London on Thursday: “That 2% of GDP is not trivial, that’s £40bn or if you prefer it in bus units, it’s £800m a week.”

The Bank has calculated that the cumulative total of lost GDP since 23 June 2016 is £55bn.'
Maybe not recession levels but certainly not lying or incompetence.

I think people might give you a bit more respect if you speak for yourself rather than posting 'copy and pastes'.

But if he spoke for himself people would just say "WELL FIND ME A PROPER SOURCE COS I'M A GAMMON AND I DON'T BELIEVE YOU".

not quite.
when he did speak for himself he came up with a list of things he is puzzled have not happened since we left...
not to sure you could find a proper source for that..

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

Crying and begging for a losers re-vote, but want to fix the result!!!

Do you believe it was fixed.

Only in favour of remain and they still lost, they will fix the next one to try and make it impossible to leave !!!

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

Crying and begging for a losers re-vote, but want to fix the result!!!

Do you believe it was fixed.

Isnt he saying remainers want a re vote so can fix result in favour of remain? And thats what they'll fo givem chance

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

Crying and begging for a losers re-vote, but want to fix the result!!!

Do you believe it was fixed.

Isnt he saying remainers want a re vote so can fix result in favour of remain? And thats what they'll fo givem chance

I must admit I'd have no faith in Nicola Sturgeon delivering the result of the Scottish vote from Edinburgh. Akin to the eastern bloc in Eurovision.

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

Crying and begging for a losers re-vote, but want to fix the result!!!

Do you believe it was fixed.

Isnt he saying remainers want a re vote so can fix result in favour of remain? And thats what they'll fo givem chance

I must admit I'd have no faith in Nicola Sturgeon delivering the result of the Scottish vote from Edinburgh. Akin to the eastern bloc in Eurovision.

Jimmy Krankie must die

Are these b*stard remoaners still b*stard moaning ? Ffs

Crying and begging for a losers re-vote, but want to fix the result!!!

Do you believe it was fixed.

Isnt he saying remainers want a re vote so can fix result in favour of remain? And thats what they'll fo givem chance

I must admit I'd have no faith in Nicola Sturgeon delivering the result of the Scottish vote from Edinburgh. Akin to the eastern bloc in Eurovision.

Jimmy Krankie must die

Think have more faith in tan being manager than in any of the politicians i Westminster...

But if he spoke for himself people would just say "WELL FIND ME A PROPER SOURCE COS I'M A GAMMON AND I DON'T BELIEVE YOU".

I always find it interesting to see how the vitriol which comes out of the left is such a clear indicator of just how far off their moral compass actually is, without them ever once stopping and thinking through the logic of their words.

"Gammon" is just the latest in a long line of such examples.

Just stop and think for one minute. I mean how fcuking odious does someone have to be to use a slur based on nothing other than the colour of someone's skin. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so damn hateful cos they literally have zero self-awareness that they have become such bitter little parodies of everything they espouse to hate.

Intolerant, racist, bigoted, authoritarian, censorious - these are all now the key traits of the left.

Christ, Brexit shouldn't even be a left/right thing but terms like Gammon show such a lack of intelligence, understanding and self-awareness it drives me nuts and to be fair I've only ever know lefties use it. They all think their fkcuing Owen Jones, who is perhaps the most odius and obnoxious useful little idiot of them all.


@NyeBluebird - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were just trying to sound cool and part of the gang. The above was more directed at the use of the term in general than you as a poster/person, who I've not seen enough of your posts to form an opinion of you either way.

But if he spoke for himself people would just say "WELL FIND ME A PROPER SOURCE COS I'M A GAMMON AND I DON'T BELIEVE YOU".

I always find it interesting to see how the vitriol which comes out of the left is such a clear indicator of just how far off their moral compass actually is, without them ever once stopping and thinking through the logic of their words.

"Gammon" is just the latest in a long line of such examples.

Just stop and think for one minute. I mean how fcuking odious does someone have to be to use a slur based on nothing other than the colour of someone's skin. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so damn hateful cos they literally have zero self-awareness that they have become such bitter little parodies of everything they espouse to hate.

Intolerant, racist, bigoted, authoritarian, censorious - these are all now the key traits of the left.

Christ, Brexit shouldn't even be a left/right thing but terms like Gammon show such a lack of intelligence, understanding and self-awareness it drives me nuts and to be fair I've only ever know lefties use it. They all think their fkcuing Owen Jones, who is perhaps the most odius and obnoxious useful little idiot of them all.


@NyeBluebird - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were just trying to sound cool and part of the gang. The above was more directed at the use of the term in general than you as a poster/person, who I've not seen enough of your posts to form an opinion of you either way.

had no idea that Gammon was a leftie racist insult..

so in this blokes head Brexit is a left/right thing....waw

Been a mess from start to finish ! and we haven't finished yet

Been a mess from start to finish ! and we haven't finished yet

It is more than a mess it is a national humiliation. Theresa May is now more worried about how she is perceived in historical terms rather than delivering on the referendum result.

How can someone falsely mislead the country so many times and brazenly get away with it? She told us over 100 times we will be leaving the EU on the 29th March that came and went and now she is begging France and Germany to stay in and take part in EU elections. You couldn't make it up

But if he spoke for himself people would just say "WELL FIND ME A PROPER SOURCE COS I'M A GAMMON AND I DON'T BELIEVE YOU".

I always find it interesting to see how the vitriol which comes out of the left is such a clear indicator of just how far off their moral compass actually is, without them ever once stopping and thinking through the logic of their words.

"Gammon" is just the latest in a long line of such examples.

Just stop and think for one minute. I mean how fcuking odious does someone have to be to use a slur based on nothing other than the colour of someone's skin. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so damn hateful cos they literally have zero self-awareness that they have become such bitter little parodies of everything they espouse to hate.

Intolerant, racist, bigoted, authoritarian, censorious - these are all now the key traits of the left.

Christ, Brexit shouldn't even be a left/right thing but terms like Gammon show such a lack of intelligence, understanding and self-awareness it drives me nuts and to be fair I've only ever know lefties use it. They all think their fkcuing Owen Jones, who is perhaps the most odius and obnoxious useful little idiot of them all.


@NyeBluebird - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were just trying to sound cool and part of the gang. The above was more directed at the use of the term in general than you as a poster/person, who I've not seen enough of your posts to form an opinion of you either way.

Out of interest what evidence do you have that Gammon is a racial insult?

But if he spoke for himself people would just say "WELL FIND ME A PROPER SOURCE COS I'M A GAMMON AND I DON'T BELIEVE YOU".

I always find it interesting to see how the vitriol which comes out of the left is such a clear indicator of just how far off their moral compass actually is, without them ever once stopping and thinking through the logic of their words.

"Gammon" is just the latest in a long line of such examples.

Just stop and think for one minute. I mean how fcuking odious does someone have to be to use a slur based on nothing other than the colour of someone's skin. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so damn hateful cos they literally have zero self-awareness that they have become such bitter little parodies of everything they espouse to hate.

Intolerant, racist, bigoted, authoritarian, censorious - these are all now the key traits of the left.

Christ, Brexit shouldn't even be a left/right thing but terms like Gammon show such a lack of intelligence, understanding and self-awareness it drives me nuts and to be fair I've only ever know lefties use it. They all think their fkcuing Owen Jones, who is perhaps the most odius and obnoxious useful little idiot of them all.


@NyeBluebird - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were just trying to sound cool and part of the gang. The above was more directed at the use of the term in general than you as a poster/person, who I've not seen enough of your posts to form an opinion of you either way.

Out of interest what evidence do you have that Gammon is a racial insult?

new to me but I found this earlier..

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... vists.html

Do you mean experts like the Chancellor, who stated in the event of a "leave" vote an emergency budget would be required within weeks to stop the UK economy from falling over the edge of a cliff. Still waiting for that budget, and have been waiting for more than his few weeks. This is the same "expert" who also warned of unemployment going through the roof, shares collapsing, and the country going into recession, and all just by voting "leave". Not quite right with those predictions was he?

Like we're still waiting for:
£350 million a week for the NHS
Not a single job loss
Brexit dividends
Easiest trade deal in history
All the Turks about to 'Invade'
Stay in the single market
Won't pay to leave
All the new trade deals we'll get
Take back control
The Iraqis and Syrians who'd come now that turkey is joining

To be fair re many of those points .... we haven't left yet.

Single market - we could have done that but the MPs rejected it. Along with every single other option including not leaving until we have one of those options.

We WILL get trade deals. Some are lined up. But we cant sign them until we leave the custom union. Which Corbyn wants to keep us in .... although so do a lot of other MPs to be fair.

Easiest trade deal in history .... Regarding this and many other comments about alleged promises made by the leave campaign. The leave campaign was NOT government policy. The government policy was to remain. So was the official oppositions policy. Brexit is NOT a conservative thing. Yes a lot of them are eurosceptic ... but so are a number of labour MPs
Leave sold a vision not a policy. They sold and idea of what may be achievable if we left the EU.
In theory it IS an easy trade deal. But politically the EU at this snapshot of time firstly can not do a trade deal because we have not left. They also do not want to look too keen because They do not want to send a signal to other countries that it can be good outside the EU. Thats fine. But I believe that within a relatively short space of time of leaving a trade deal WILL be done because then there will be a motivation to do it. Right now they probably want to try everything to keep us in.

Take back control - why is that a bad thing to want? Why is it bad to want to be a sovereign nation? It is a concept that is aggressively sneered at yet people throughout history have literally died for the right to be self governing. Why is it bad to want our politicians to have less people to blame for their incompetence? Why is it bad that I want the figurehead of the peole that propose legisation to be removed by the people if they are crap? I can not get rid of junker, tusk, barnier if I wanted to. Neither can anyone else here. At least for all his bluster, Guy Verhofstadt is elected by his constituents. But then so is nigel farage.

All I have seen from the vocal remain side is sneering name calling. Gammons. Racists, Bigots. Pick out a descriptor.

I do not know anyone that voted leave to kick out Johnny foreigner. Wanting to be out of a political union does not mean you want to evict thousands of foreign people. I voted leave but I actually am fine with freedom of movement. I really value the people of all nations that have come in. I would loosen things for non EU people. I think it is unfair they are given priority. We should exercise the right to say no to certain people but I am comfortable with being a welcoming nation. We do not need to be in political union to have this.

Not one person has been able to tell me why we need a political union. Sure I have seen endless lists of benefits of the EU. I agree there are some benefits alongside membership. But I do not believe we need to be linked to other nations and an additional political institution. I do not believe we need "ever closer union".

Please. Someone explain to me why we need that?

There IS a concerted effort to thwart the referendum result. It is clear to see. Again, more sneering in the media says things like "why is it anti democratic to want more votes". "We didnt know what we were voting for", " We dont stop having general election"

This is my take on it those comments

The anti democracy is in not allowing that outcome to be enacted.
ALL mainstream parties are pro EU for their official line. ALL of them. Hell, half the battles May has are to do with the fact she has a split party and Labour are little better.

IF ALL the mainstream parties are pro EU how precisely are we able to get an anti EU view in to the mainstream of politics? It is abundantly clear that the UK is NOT pro EU. It is split down the middle. The slogan of we are the 48% is often used. Lets round it up to 50% for arguments sake. All major parties fundamentally pro EU. Half the people who can be bothered to vote are anti. Where is the representation??

Brexit NEEDS to happen because if it does not this problem will get bigger and bigger and bigger. It wont go away. It cant. True democracy is to allow it to happen then the pro eu lobby can campaign to go back in. Will brexit be a success? I have no idea. Can we even quantify success?? But it needs a chance to see if we can make a go of it. For me the reclaiming of sovereignty is worth more to me though. THEN we can start working on the political system we have of our own which clearly is not working,.

Issues with going back in - we would have to have the euro and be part of schengen and lose rebates. Well that is a risk we have to accept in leaving and a consideration we would have to make if we wished to go back in.

We didn't know what we were voting for? We didnt know what brexit meant. I would dispute this. We voted to leave. Deals were not part of the equation. A proposed trade deal is NOT what has been discussed in parliament. They are pushing for a transition agreement which is not the same thing. TO be frank. The remain campaign should have done a better job in the referendum campaign if they wanted this message heard.
If we were to have a "peoples vote" ir should only be on parliaments sanctioned deal or no deal. We have established a desire to leave.

We absolutely do not stop having general elections. That is correct. But we do not refuse to implement the outcomes of each one. We give the winners a chance to make a go of things then judge them on their efforts.

Regards turks - I have never seen anyone say they will invade. Iraqi's and Syrians already come. OR at least try to.

Paying to leave - well we wouldn't have to if we left with no deal. Its May's idea to pay for things. FWIW I do think we should settle our budgetary commitments and we should be liable for pension contributions at least for our own staff.

Finally. Why would the EU even want us to stay? We are a pain in the ass. We have a split country where we clearly do not want further integration and at the last time of asking more people who bothered to vote wanted to leave the union. We are not willing participants in the EU project. If we go then they can crack on and do whatever the hell they want.

I want to us to be a good neighbour with plenty of cooperation and helping each other. But I also want us to be global and outward looking free of EU restrictions. I do not want us having to lose full function of things like youtube because of link taxes and shifting copyright liability to the platform rather than the individual. I actually could probably get behind the Norway model. They can trade freely with the world signing their own deals as they wish. For Me it is not about some bygone age of world domination. I just want us to plot our own path. If that means we lose some influence ... well what does that matter? As long as we have a good life and can help our fellow people whats the issue.??

Do you mean experts like the Chancellor, who stated in the event of a "leave" vote an emergency budget would be required within weeks to stop the UK economy from falling over the edge of a cliff. Still waiting for that budget, and have been waiting for more than his few weeks. This is the same "expert" who also warned of unemployment going through the roof, shares collapsing, and the country going into recession, and all just by voting "leave". Not quite right with those predictions was he?

Like we're still waiting for:
£350 million a week for the NHS
Not a single job loss
Brexit dividends
Easiest trade deal in history
All the Turks about to 'Invade'
Stay in the single market
Won't pay to leave
All the new trade deals we'll get
Take back control
The Iraqis and Syrians who'd come now that turkey is joining

To be fair re many of those points .... we haven't left yet.

Single market - we could have done that but the MPs rejected it. Along with every single other option including not leaving until we have one of those options.

We WILL get trade deals. Some are lined up. But we cant sign them until we leave the custom union. Which Corbyn wants to keep us in .... although so do a lot of other MPs to be fair.

Easiest trade deal in history .... Regarding this and many other comments about alleged promises made by the leave campaign. The leave campaign was NOT government policy. The government policy was to remain. So was the official oppositions policy. Brexit is NOT a conservative thing. Yes a lot of them are eurosceptic ... but so are a number of labour MPs
Leave sold a vision not a policy. They sold and idea of what may be achievable if we left the EU.
In theory it IS an easy trade deal. But politically the EU at this snapshot of time firstly can not do a trade deal because we have not left. They also do not want to look too keen because They do not want to send a signal to other countries that it can be good outside the EU. Thats fine. But I believe that within a relatively short space of time of leaving a trade deal WILL be done because then there will be a motivation to do it. Right now they probably want to try everything to keep us in.

Take back control - why is that a bad thing to want? Why is it bad to want to be a sovereign nation? It is a concept that is aggressively sneered at yet people throughout history have literally died for the right to be self governing. Why is it bad to want our politicians to have less people to blame for their incompetence? Why is it bad that I want the figurehead of the peole that propose legisation to be removed by the people if they are crap? I can not get rid of junker, tusk, barnier if I wanted to. Neither can anyone else here. At least for all his bluster, Guy Verhofstadt is elected by his constituents. But then so is nigel farage.

All I have seen from the vocal remain side is sneering name calling. Gammons. Racists, Bigots. Pick out a descriptor.

I do not know anyone that voted leave to kick out Johnny foreigner. Wanting to be out of a political union does not mean you want to evict thousands of foreign people. I voted leave but I actually am fine with freedom of movement. I really value the people of all nations that have come in. I would loosen things for non EU people. I think it is unfair they are given priority. We should exercise the right to say no to certain people but I am comfortable with being a welcoming nation. We do not need to be in political union to have this.

Not one person has been able to tell me why we need a political union. Sure I have seen endless lists of benefits of the EU. I agree there are some benefits alongside membership. But I do not believe we need to be linked to other nations and an additional political institution. I do not believe we need "ever closer union".

Please. Someone explain to me why we need that?

There IS a concerted effort to thwart the referendum result. It is clear to see. Again, more sneering in the media says things like "why is it anti democratic to want more votes". "We didnt know what we were voting for", " We dont stop having general election"

This is my take on it those comments

The anti democracy is in not allowing that outcome to be enacted.
ALL mainstream parties are pro EU for their official line. ALL of them. Hell, half the battles May has are to do with the fact she has a split party and Labour are little better.

IF ALL the mainstream parties are pro EU how precisely are we able to get an anti EU view in to the mainstream of politics? It is abundantly clear that the UK is NOT pro EU. It is split down the middle. The slogan of we are the 48% is often used. Lets round it up to 50% for arguments sake. All major parties fundamentally pro EU. Half the people who can be bothered to vote are anti. Where is the representation??

Brexit NEEDS to happen because if it does not this problem will get bigger and bigger and bigger. It wont go away. It cant. True democracy is to allow it to happen then the pro eu lobby can campaign to go back in. Will brexit be a success? I have no idea. Can we even quantify success?? But it needs a chance to see if we can make a go of it. For me the reclaiming of sovereignty is worth more to me though. THEN we can start working on the political system we have of our own which clearly is not working,.

Issues with going back in - we would have to have the euro and be part of schengen and lose rebates. Well that is a risk we have to accept in leaving and a consideration we would have to make if we wished to go back in.

We didn't know what we were voting for? We didnt know what brexit meant. I would dispute this. We voted to leave. Deals were not part of the equation. A proposed trade deal is NOT what has been discussed in parliament. They are pushing for a transition agreement which is not the same thing. TO be frank. The remain campaign should have done a better job in the referendum campaign if they wanted this message heard.
If we were to have a "peoples vote" ir should only be on parliaments sanctioned deal or no deal. We have established a desire to leave.

We absolutely do not stop having general elections. That is correct. But we do not refuse to implement the outcomes of each one. We give the winners a chance to make a go of things then judge them on their efforts.

Regards turks - I have never seen anyone say they will invade. Iraqi's and Syrians already come. OR at least try to.

Paying to leave - well we wouldn't have to if we left with no deal. Its May's idea to pay for things. FWIW I do think we should settle our budgetary commitments and we should be liable for pension contributions at least for our own staff.

Finally. Why would the EU even want us to stay? We are a pain in the ass. We have a split country where we clearly do not want further integration and at the last time of asking more people who bothered to vote wanted to leave the union. We are not willing participants in the EU project. If we go then they can crack on and do whatever the hell they want.

I want to us to be a good neighbour with plenty of cooperation and helping each other. But I also want us to be global and outward looking free of EU restrictions. I do not want us having to lose full function of things like youtube because of link taxes and shifting copyright liability to the platform rather than the individual. I actually could probably get behind the Norway model. They can trade freely with the world signing their own deals as they wish. For Me it is not about some bygone age of world domination. I just want us to plot our own path. If that means we lose some influence ... well what does that matter? As long as we have a good life and can help our fellow people whats the issue.??

top post mate

Interesting observations from Welshrarebit, whichever side of the debate you are on.

Do you mean experts like the Chancellor, who stated in the event of a "leave" vote an emergency budget would be required within weeks to stop the UK economy from falling over the edge of a cliff. Still waiting for that budget, and have been waiting for more than his few weeks. This is the same "expert" who also warned of unemployment going through the roof, shares collapsing, and the country going into recession, and all just by voting "leave". Not quite right with those predictions was he?

Like we're still waiting for:
£350 million a week for the NHS
Not a single job loss
Brexit dividends
Easiest trade deal in history
All the Turks about to 'Invade'
Stay in the single market
Won't pay to leave
All the new trade deals we'll get
Take back control
The Iraqis and Syrians who'd come now that turkey is joining

To be fair re many of those points .... we haven't left yet.

Single market - we could have done that but the MPs rejected it. Along with every single other option including not leaving until we have one of those options.

We WILL get trade deals. Some are lined up. But we cant sign them until we leave the custom union. Which Corbyn wants to keep us in .... although so do a lot of other MPs to be fair.

Easiest trade deal in history .... Regarding this and many other comments about alleged promises made by the leave campaign. The leave campaign was NOT government policy. The government policy was to remain. So was the official oppositions policy. Brexit is NOT a conservative thing. Yes a lot of them are eurosceptic ... but so are a number of labour MPs
Leave sold a vision not a policy. They sold and idea of what may be achievable if we left the EU.
In theory it IS an easy trade deal. But politically the EU at this snapshot of time firstly can not do a trade deal because we have not left. They also do not want to look too keen because They do not want to send a signal to other countries that it can be good outside the EU. Thats fine. But I believe that within a relatively short space of time of leaving a trade deal WILL be done because then there will be a motivation to do it. Right now they probably want to try everything to keep us in.

Take back control - why is that a bad thing to want? Why is it bad to want to be a sovereign nation? It is a concept that is aggressively sneered at yet people throughout history have literally died for the right to be self governing. Why is it bad to want our politicians to have less people to blame for their incompetence? Why is it bad that I want the figurehead of the peole that propose legisation to be removed by the people if they are crap? I can not get rid of junker, tusk, barnier if I wanted to. Neither can anyone else here. At least for all his bluster, Guy Verhofstadt is elected by his constituents. But then so is nigel farage.

All I have seen from the vocal remain side is sneering name calling. Gammons. Racists, Bigots. Pick out a descriptor.

I do not know anyone that voted leave to kick out Johnny foreigner. Wanting to be out of a political union does not mean you want to evict thousands of foreign people. I voted leave but I actually am fine with freedom of movement. I really value the people of all nations that have come in. I would loosen things for non EU people. I think it is unfair they are given priority. We should exercise the right to say no to certain people but I am comfortable with being a welcoming nation. We do not need to be in political union to have this.

Not one person has been able to tell me why we need a political union. Sure I have seen endless lists of benefits of the EU. I agree there are some benefits alongside membership. But I do not believe we need to be linked to other nations and an additional political institution. I do not believe we need "ever closer union".

Please. Someone explain to me why we need that?

There IS a concerted effort to thwart the referendum result. It is clear to see. Again, more sneering in the media says things like "why is it anti democratic to want more votes". "We didnt know what we were voting for", " We dont stop having general election"

This is my take on it those comments

The anti democracy is in not allowing that outcome to be enacted.
ALL mainstream parties are pro EU for their official line. ALL of them. Hell, half the battles May has are to do with the fact she has a split party and Labour are little better.

IF ALL the mainstream parties are pro EU how precisely are we able to get an anti EU view in to the mainstream of politics? It is abundantly clear that the UK is NOT pro EU. It is split down the middle. The slogan of we are the 48% is often used. Lets round it up to 50% for arguments sake. All major parties fundamentally pro EU. Half the people who can be bothered to vote are anti. Where is the representation??

Brexit NEEDS to happen because if it does not this problem will get bigger and bigger and bigger. It wont go away. It cant. True democracy is to allow it to happen then the pro eu lobby can campaign to go back in. Will brexit be a success? I have no idea. Can we even quantify success?? But it needs a chance to see if we can make a go of it. For me the reclaiming of sovereignty is worth more to me though. THEN we can start working on the political system we have of our own which clearly is not working,.

Issues with going back in - we would have to have the euro and be part of schengen and lose rebates. Well that is a risk we have to accept in leaving and a consideration we would have to make if we wished to go back in.

We didn't know what we were voting for? We didnt know what brexit meant. I would dispute this. We voted to leave. Deals were not part of the equation. A proposed trade deal is NOT what has been discussed in parliament. They are pushing for a transition agreement which is not the same thing. TO be frank. The remain campaign should have done a better job in the referendum campaign if they wanted this message heard.
If we were to have a "peoples vote" ir should only be on parliaments sanctioned deal or no deal. We have established a desire to leave.

We absolutely do not stop having general elections. That is correct. But we do not refuse to implement the outcomes of each one. We give the winners a chance to make a go of things then judge them on their efforts.

Regards turks - I have never seen anyone say they will invade. Iraqi's and Syrians already come. OR at least try to.

Paying to leave - well we wouldn't have to if we left with no deal. Its May's idea to pay for things. FWIW I do think we should settle our budgetary commitments and we should be liable for pension contributions at least for our own staff.

Finally. Why would the EU even want us to stay? We are a pain in the ass. We have a split country where we clearly do not want further integration and at the last time of asking more people who bothered to vote wanted to leave the union. We are not willing participants in the EU project. If we go then they can crack on and do whatever the hell they want.

I want to us to be a good neighbour with plenty of cooperation and helping each other. But I also want us to be global and outward looking free of EU restrictions. I do not want us having to lose full function of things like youtube because of link taxes and shifting copyright liability to the platform rather than the individual. I actually could probably get behind the Norway model. They can trade freely with the world signing their own deals as they wish. For Me it is not about some bygone age of world domination. I just want us to plot our own path. If that means we lose some influence ... well what does that matter? As long as we have a good life and can help our fellow people whats the issue.??

As time goes on its become very clear that mps are putting self interests before the voters and EU politicians are rejecting anything we ask so that in hope that brexit does not happen! Latest is no to june date but we Will give you a year instead with strings, by giving a year they hope that the mps will
Force a situation where we stay in euro zone or cancel brexit altogether, got to wonder if this was intentions of our politicians in 1st place knowing there was majority in favour of remain in parliament?

As time goes on its become very clear that mps are putting self interests before the voters and EU politicians are rejecting anything we ask so that in hope that brexit does not happen! Latest is no to june date but we Will give you a year instead with strings, by giving a year they hope that the mps will
Force a situation where we stay in euro zone or cancel brexit altogether, got to wonder if this was intentions of our politicians in 1st place knowing there was majority in favour of remain in parliament?

Lets be honest its only the tory party that have wanted Brexit and not even all of them. Other than that its a handfuk of Labour MP's prepared to respect the vote of their constituents, the rest have been determined to block any meaningful brexit with their end goal of blocking brexit altogether.

If they'd said that to the electorate in 2017 then fair enough, but they could even be honest with their intensions in the Newport West elections last week. The Labour party are determined to overturn brexit and if they had anounce of integrity they would be honest with the public.

As time goes on its become very clear that mps are putting self interests before the voters and EU politicians are rejecting anything we ask so that in hope that brexit does not happen! Latest is no to june date but we Will give you a year instead with strings, by giving a year they hope that the mps will
Force a situation where we stay in euro zone or cancel brexit altogether, got to wonder if this was intentions of our politicians in 1st place knowing there was majority in favour of remain in parliament?

Lets be honest its only the tory party that have wanted Brexit and not even all of them. Other than that its a handfuk of Labour MP's prepared to respect the vote of their constituents, the rest have been determined to block any meaningful brexit with their end goal of blocking brexit altogether.

If they'd said that to the electorate in 2017 then fair enough, but they could even be honest with their intensions in the Newport West elections last week. The Labour party are determined to overturn brexit and if they had anounce of integrity they would be honest with the public.

strange times mate...people voting for candidates they know full well are liars..i know that's always been the case to an extent and sometimes a stance might change through circumstances changing but at the moment there isn't even any intension of being truthful.

As time goes on its become very clear that mps are putting self interests before the voters and EU politicians are rejecting anything we ask so that in hope that brexit does not happen! Latest is no to june date but we Will give you a year instead with strings, by giving a year they hope that the mps will
Force a situation where we stay in euro zone or cancel brexit altogether, got to wonder if this was intentions of our politicians in 1st place knowing there was majority in favour of remain in parliament?

Lets be honest its only the tory party that have wanted Brexit and not even all of them. Other than that its a handfuk of Labour MP's prepared to respect the vote of their constituents, the rest have been determined to block any meaningful brexit with their end goal of blocking brexit altogether.

If they'd said that to the electorate in 2017 then fair enough, but they could even be honest with their intensions in the Newport West elections last week. The Labour party are determined to overturn brexit and if they had anounce of integrity they would be honest with the public.

Two things that are odd to say the least! Firstly the referendum result was not binding so was open to be overturned as we are seeing now? Secondly why the fck did may put in a clause (back stop) that she knew udp would not back and without their backing she wouldn't be in power and not a cats in hell chance of passing brexit in parliament ? As it stands there is only two choices leave no deal or go with this one year delay and probably no brexit by end of it as we cannot change anything in the agreement so cannot go forwards unless we stay in the EU trade organisation which means stay under EU trade laws without a say in implementing them and who wants that besides remain MPS ?