Can’t Compete with Competitors in the Transfer Window?

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/na ... ub-2015-16 2 yeaes out of date thi but its an intresting article

lol youre both crazy


first of all no club sells all those tickets, most are pre bought through season tickets and not 35 quid each (so the leeds example, season tickets for under 500 quid, kids for 69 etc)


what about kids seats? oap? cheaper ones behind the goal

Not really as simple as Attendance X how much away fans pay = match earning



wez dont you own a pub? how much you make off one pint?


be interested to know what a club makes from beer/food but im guessing its not a great deal.

Tickets vary across the board at all clubs (I gave Leeds United as an example) have crowds well in excess of 30k and charge prices ranging from the mid-20's to the high 50's and above

So, it is reasonable to use an average figure of £30 for a low (in some cases) crowd of 30k, which means Wez is right and you are wrong...simples!

Sometimes it would be better to sit back and check the facts and figures before mocking. That way, you just might have some justification in your desperation to try and put people down at every opportunity

Better you say little and let people think you're a not always right, rather than do something like this and prove it beyond doubt!

its not simple or about wez your basis for 30 average is flawed. at least half the seats at leeds are season tickets and the average price of these wont be above 20


you talking about checking facts and havent looked at any yourself

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/football-finance-championship-club-by-club-2015-16 2 yeaes out of date thi but its an intresting article

yikes look at the staff costs, lets hope permenant lessons have been learned.

lol youre both crazy


first of all no club sells all those tickets, most are pre bought through season tickets and not 35 quid each (so the leeds example, season tickets for under 500 quid, kids for 69 etc)


what about kids seats? oap? cheaper ones behind the goal

Not really as simple as Attendance X how much away fans pay = match earning



wez dont you own a pub? how much you make off one pint?


be interested to know what a club makes from beer/food but im guessing its not a great deal.

Tickets vary across the board at all clubs (I gave Leeds United as an example) have crowds well in excess of 30k and charge prices ranging from the mid-20's to the high 50's and above

So, it is reasonable to use an average figure of £30 for a low (in some cases) crowd of 30k, which means Wez is right and you are wrong...simples!

Sometimes it would be better to sit back and check the facts and figures before mocking. That way, you just might have some justification in your desperation to try and put people down at every opportunity

Better you say little and let people think you're a not always right, rather than do something like this and prove it beyond doubt!

its not simple or about wez your basis for 30 average is flawed. at least half the seats at leeds are season tickets and the average price of these wont be above 20


you talking about checking facts and havent looked at any yourself

Is that the best you can do?

Have a look at this and consider again...

https://www.leedsunited.com/tickets/seasontickets

Season tickets (c.15,000+ sold this season) average c.£23 - £28 per game

Match day tickets start at £34 and go up to £44 (not allowing for hospitality and other 'add-on' tickets)

Their average home gates are 34,900 in the Championship so far this season (about twice those of our own) which means around 20,000 pay the top figures

Of course, that will include concessions, such as Pensioners and children, but you still have to consider food, beverages and match day merchandise

All in all, it still adds up to what Wez said for match day takings when all is taken into account!

Note from teacher: "Paul must do better! C-"

lol youre both crazy


first of all no club sells all those tickets, most are pre bought through season tickets and not 35 quid each (so the leeds example, season tickets for under 500 quid, kids for 69 etc)


what about kids seats? oap? cheaper ones behind the goal

Not really as simple as Attendance X how much away fans pay = match earning



wez dont you own a pub? how much you make off one pint?


be interested to know what a club makes from beer/food but im guessing its not a great deal.

Tickets vary across the board at all clubs (I gave Leeds United as an example) have crowds well in excess of 30k and charge prices ranging from the mid-20's to the high 50's and above

So, it is reasonable to use an average figure of £30 for a low (in some cases) crowd of 30k, which means Wez is right and you are wrong...simples!

Sometimes it would be better to sit back and check the facts and figures before mocking. That way, you just might have some justification in your desperation to try and put people down at every opportunity

Better you say little and let people think you're a not always right, rather than do something like this and prove it beyond doubt!

its not simple or about wez your basis for 30 average is flawed. at least half the seats at leeds are season tickets and the average price of these wont be above 20


you talking about checking facts and havent looked at any yourself

Is that the best you can do?

Have a look at this and consider again...

https://www.leedsunited.com/tickets/seasontickets

Season tickets (c.15,000+ sold this season) average c.£23 - £28 per game

Match day tickets start at £34 and go up to £44 (not allowing for hospitality and other 'add-on' tickets)

Their average home gates are 34,900 in the Championship so far this season (about twice those of our own) which means around 20,000 pay the top figures

Of course, that will include concessions, such as Pensioners and children, but you still have to consider food, beverages and match day merchandise

All in all, it still adds up to what Wez said for match day takings when all is taken into account!

Note from teacher: "Paul must do better! C-"

you are shocking, honestly. putting things in italics and bold doesnt make your points more valid.

ok firstly, season ticket prices are 21-28 and they would have sold over 15k (i see they passed 15k in may, so i dunno, maybe 17k ish?) - so thats more, or at least around half of the crowd and not a single ticket over what you claim the average to be

match day tickets do indeed start at 34 but only for a+ category, which you ironically leave out - but yes, match day adult tickets sales will be over 30 quid across a season

average crowds are not 34,900 (where did you make this number up from?)


and you still choose to ignore the massive discount on kids tickets (£3 quid per game for under 11s, 7 quid for under 16s and only 16.5 for under 22s and over 60s)


havent even had to mention tax



the idea that they are walking away with 1m every home game is laughable

Derby, Villa and Wolves with anymore signings will break ffp rules...Boro have a huge parachute payment to finance signings..Leedss are using the £18 million they got for Wood in the summer and Bristol have got a multi, multi millionaire owner who wants the club in the premier league

We haven't got any money to compete because OGS wasted it all on substandard players we had to pay off

I was going to say Ole Gunner messed us right up, put us back five years, controversial but appointing him was as big a mistake as turning us red, financially especially !!!


Well maybe not not, but his 2nd biggest mistake !!!

Derby, Villa and Wolves with anymore signings will break ffp rules...Boro have a huge parachute payment to finance signings..Leedss are using the £18 million they got for Wood in the summer and Bristol have got a multi, multi millionaire owner who wants the club in the premier league

We haven't got any money to compete because OGS wasted it all on substandard players we had to pay off

I was going to say Ole Gunner messed us right up, put us back five years, controversial but appointing him was as big a mistake as turning us red, financially especially !!!


Well maybe not not, but his 2nd biggest mistake !!!

definately a bigger backward step financially for me, though with playing in red in the prem its probably harder to gauge the impact.

all in all a pretty low point in the clubs history in what should have been a high point.

keeping my fingers crossed we do things right from now on

lol youre both crazy


first of all no club sells all those tickets, most are pre bought through season tickets and not 35 quid each (so the leeds example, season tickets for under 500 quid, kids for 69 etc)


what about kids seats? oap? cheaper ones behind the goal

Not really as simple as Attendance X how much away fans pay = match earning



wez dont you own a pub? how much you make off one pint?


be interested to know what a club makes from beer/food but im guessing its not a great deal.

Tickets vary across the board at all clubs (I gave Leeds United as an example) have crowds well in excess of 30k and charge prices ranging from the mid-20's to the high 50's and above

So, it is reasonable to use an average figure of £30 for a low (in some cases) crowd of 30k, which means Wez is right and you are wrong...simples!

Sometimes it would be better to sit back and check the facts and figures before mocking. That way, you just might have some justification in your desperation to try and put people down at every opportunity

Better you say little and let people think you're a not always right, rather than do something like this and prove it beyond doubt!

its not simple or about wez your basis for 30 average is flawed. at least half the seats at leeds are season tickets and the average price of these wont be above 20


you talking about checking facts and havent looked at any yourself

Is that the best you can do?

Have a look at this and consider again...

https://www.leedsunited.com/tickets/seasontickets

Season tickets (c.15,000+ sold this season) average c.£23 - £28 per game

Match day tickets start at £34 and go up to £44 (not allowing for hospitality and other 'add-on' tickets)

Their average home gates are 34,900 in the Championship so far this season (about twice those of our own) which means around 20,000 pay the top figures

Of course, that will include concessions, such as Pensioners and children, but you still have to consider food, beverages and match day merchandise

All in all, it still adds up to what Wez said for match day takings when all is taken into account!

Note from teacher: "Paul must do better! C-"

you are shocking, honestly. putting things in italics and bold doesnt make your points more valid.

ok firstly, season ticket prices are 21-28 and they would have sold over 15k (i see they passed 15k in may, so i dunno, maybe 17k ish?) - so thats more, or at least around half of the crowd and not a single ticket over what you claim the average to be

match day tickets do indeed start at 34 but only for a+ category, which you ironically leave out - but yes, match day adult tickets sales will be over 30 quid across a season

average crowds are not 34,900 (where did you make this number up from?)


and you still choose to ignore the massive discount on kids tickets (£3 quid per game for under 11s, 7 quid for under 16s and only 16.5 for under 22s and over 60s)


havent even had to mention tax



the idea that they are walking away with 1m every home game is laughable

Shocking? For pointing out Wez's figures were achievable?

I think you'll find I accounted for most of that AND used the term 'gross' for the figures, so no one said they are 'walking away' with those figures but they are achievable 'gross' figures on the day of a match and that is what you ridiculed Wez for!

Leeds figures were an acurate example of what can be attained by the clubs with bigger followings and Cardiff City FC clearly do not achieve even half those figures, as they do not have the crowds and they don't rip their supporters off (Blue Lagoon and his Cup 'freebies' apart)

Again, that was the point Wez was trying to make...but you had to jump in once again and ridicule someone without doing your own homework first. It's a habit you have but (like today) you usually fail to follow up any responses with anything of worth

Don't you worry about my style of writing either. That's for me to choose and it's just my style and as I said, if that's the best you've got to say, then it's best you jog on to another topic (hopefully more mindful of mocking or making statements before you know the facts rather than the supposition

i mean... ive followed it up with facts and common sense, that might not be "of worth" to you... but i think that says more about you than me

the 1m pound a game was mentioned by wez, and he wasnt ridiculed,


but as youve been your usual pedantic, condescending self, its actually been a positive, as im even more convinced that figure is way off after looking at it and thats just one club leeds. Derby, Brizzle, Fulham, sheffield united - the main teams around us (though i guess you can put villa in the leeds bracket) wont be gathering anything like that.


just incase you bother to replay to this.... just let me know why you made up a figure for leeds average attendance? but no... apparently its me that didnt do homework

i mean... ive followed it up with facts and common sense, that might not be "of worth" to you... but i think that says more about you than me

the 1m pound a game was mentioned by wez, and he wasnt ridiculed,


but as youve been your usual pedantic, condescending self, its actually been a positive, as im even more convinced that figure is way off after looking at it and thats just one club leeds. Derby, Brizzle, Fulham, sheffield united - the main teams around us (though i guess you can put villa in the leeds bracket) wont be gathering anything like that.


just incase you bother to replay to this.... just let me know why you made up a figure for leeds average attendance? but no... apparently its me that didnt do homework

Ah you do it again, fella!

Check this, add the attendances, take away the two Cup games and divide by 13 Championship games to date...

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/leed ... ttendances

For ease:

Leeds at Home (2017/18):

12/8/2017 Preston North End 32,880
15/8/2017 Fulham 28,918
9/9/2017 Burton Albion 33,404
12/9/2017 Birmingham City 31,507
23/9/2017 Ipswich Town 34,002
14/10/2017 Reading 33,900
27/10/2017 Sheffield United 34,504
31/10/2017 Derby County 28,565
19/11/2017 Middlesbrough 33,771
1/12/2017 Aston Villa 30,547
16/12/2017 Norwich City 30,590
23/12/2017 Hull City 35,156
1/1/2018 Nottingham Forest 32,426
20/1/2018 Millwall 33,564

Total = 453,144 split over 14 (not 13) games = 32,367 average


Keep 'em coming, fella. You're on a roll (sadly downhill)

i mean... ive followed it up with facts and common sense, that might not be "of worth" to you... but i think that says more about you than me

the 1m pound a game was mentioned by wez, and he wasnt ridiculed,


but as youve been your usual pedantic, condescending self, its actually been a positive, as im even more convinced that figure is way off after looking at it and thats just one club leeds. Derby, Brizzle, Fulham, sheffield united - the main teams around us (though i guess you can put villa in the leeds bracket) wont be gathering anything like that.


just incase you bother to replay to this.... just let me know why you made up a figure for leeds average attendance? but no... apparently its me that didnt do homework

Ah you do it again, fella!

Check this, add the attendances, take away the two Cup games and divide by 13 Championship games to date...

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/leed ... ttendances

For ease:

Leeds at Home (2017/18):

12/8/2017 Preston North End 32,880
15/8/2017 Fulham 28,918
9/9/2017 Burton Albion 33,404
12/9/2017 Birmingham City 31,507
23/9/2017 Ipswich Town 34,002
14/10/2017 Reading 33,900
27/10/2017 Sheffield United 34,504
31/10/2017 Derby County 28,565
19/11/2017 Middlesbrough 33,771
1/12/2017 Aston Villa 30,547
16/12/2017 Norwich City 30,590
23/12/2017 Hull City 35,156
1/1/2018 Nottingham Forest 32,426
20/1/2018 Millwall 33,564

Total = 453,144 split over 14 (not 13) games = 32,367 average


Keep 'em coming, fella. You're on a roll (sadly downhill)

you are by far the biggest whopper on here.....



you just proved that your initial post stating their average was 34,900 is completely wrong



all the effort and the stupid bold and into this post, and all you had to do was look here https://www.transfermarkt.com/champions ... bewerb/GB2

didnt even add the numbers up correctly. total attendance is 453,734


get a new calculator sven

Tbe fact is that these clubs are turning more than us over on matchdays

Tbe fact is that these clubs are turning more than us over on matchdays

agreed


im past it now, just want to see what nonsense sven comes out with next

didnt even add the numbers up correctly. total attendance is 453,734


get a new calculator sven

Got to be fair, I miscalculated the number of games played but adjusted and admitted it. Still well over 30k average though and you can't deny that or the prices they charge for the (conservatively) 20K+ non-season ticket holders, can you?

Problem is, you've dug yourself in and just won't admit to your own error and cannot even come up with contrary figures, which leaves you clear to 'suggest' your theories and nothing else!

I'm not for or against things you say; to me, you're either right or wrong and in this case, you're simply wrong but you just can't admit it. You prefer reverting to the stuff above in some weak attempt to deflect from the original point

Did my research and (unlike you) backed up my original statement, according to the links provided

I await your evidence to the contrary. I'm here (on and off) all evening ready to bat it back!

didnt even add the numbers up correctly. total attendance is 453,734


get a new calculator sven

Got to be fair, I miscalculated the number of games played but adjusted and admitted it. Still well over 30k average though and you can't deny that or the prices they charge for the (conservatively) 20K+ non-season ticket holders, can you?

Problem is, you've dug yourself in and just won't admit to your own error and cannot even come up with contrary figures, which leaves you clear to 'suggest' your theories and nothing else!

I'm not for or against things you say; to me, you're either right or wrong and in this case, you're simply wrong but you just can't admit it. You prefer reverting to the stuff above in some weak attempt to deflect from the original point

Did my research and (unlike you) backed up my original statement, according to the links provided

I await your evidence to the contrary. I'm here (on and off) all evening ready to bat it back!

You talk about facts but your at it again. They have a minimum 15k season ticket holders (likely more) so where did 20k+ non season ticket holders come from??

Not even close to a 30 quid average and you haven’t proved anything otherwise

didnt even add the numbers up correctly. total attendance is 453,734


get a new calculator sven

Got to be fair, I miscalculated the number of games played but adjusted and admitted it. Still well over 30k average though and you can't deny that or the prices they charge for the (conservatively) 20K+ non-season ticket holders, can you?

Problem is, you've dug yourself in and just won't admit to your own error and cannot even come up with contrary figures, which leaves you clear to 'suggest' your theories and nothing else!

I'm not for or against things you say; to me, you're either right or wrong and in this case, you're simply wrong but you just can't admit it. You prefer reverting to the stuff above in some weak attempt to deflect from the original point

Did my research and (unlike you) backed up my original statement, according to the links provided

I await your evidence to the contrary. I'm here (on and off) all evening ready to bat it back!

You talk about facts but your at it again. They have a minimum 15k season ticket holders (likely more) so where did 20k+ non season ticket holders come from??

Not even close to a 30 quid average and you haven’t proved anything otherwise

Leeds cheapest adult season ticket is 21.50 per match even if all the 15k were on the cheapest its still over 350k and with the walk up paying 39 plus its still a hell of a lot more than us

didnt even add the numbers up correctly. total attendance is 453,734


get a new calculator sven

Got to be fair, I miscalculated the number of games played but adjusted and admitted it. Still well over 30k average though and you can't deny that or the prices they charge for the (conservatively) 20K+ non-season ticket holders, can you?

Problem is, you've dug yourself in and just won't admit to your own error and cannot even come up with contrary figures, which leaves you clear to 'suggest' your theories and nothing else!

I'm not for or against things you say; to me, you're either right or wrong and in this case, you're simply wrong but you just can't admit it. You prefer reverting to the stuff above in some weak attempt to deflect from the original point

Did my research and (unlike you) backed up my original statement, according to the links provided

I await your evidence to the contrary. I'm here (on and off) all evening ready to bat it back!

You talk about facts but your at it again. They have a minimum 15k season ticket holders (likely more) so where did 20k+ non season ticket holders come from??

Not even close to a 30 quid average and you haven’t proved anything otherwise

Leeds cheapest adult season ticket is 21.50 per match even if all the 15k were on the cheapest its still over 350k and with the walk up paying 39 plus its still a hell of a lot more than us

And all the kids season tickets are 3 quid per match , or 7.50.

16-22 and over 60 are 16.50 per match

didnt even add the numbers up correctly. total attendance is 453,734


get a new calculator sven

Got to be fair, I miscalculated the number of games played but adjusted and admitted it. Still well over 30k average though and you can't deny that or the prices they charge for the (conservatively) 20K+ non-season ticket holders, can you?

Problem is, you've dug yourself in and just won't admit to your own error and cannot even come up with contrary figures, which leaves you clear to 'suggest' your theories and nothing else!

I'm not for or against things you say; to me, you're either right or wrong and in this case, you're simply wrong but you just can't admit it. You prefer reverting to the stuff above in some weak attempt to deflect from the original point

Did my research and (unlike you) backed up my original statement, according to the links provided

I await your evidence to the contrary. I'm here (on and off) all evening ready to bat it back!

You talk about facts but your at it again. They have a minimum 15k season ticket holders (likely more) so where did 20k+ non season ticket holders come from??

Not even close to a 30 quid average and you haven’t proved anything otherwise

Let's do the maths again, then...

17,000 season ticket holders (according to their figures) at an average of c.£25 per game = £425,000

16,000 non season ticket holders (according to their attendance figures) paying c.£35 per game = £560,000

Total= 33,000 (average attendance and average ticket prices) = £985,000

Adding food, beverages, match day merchandise and other bolt-ons and that exceeds £1m (the original point)

I'm not an accountant but the figures add up to clubs (like Leeds) in The Championship being able to gross £1m per game and way outstrip anything our club can muster

It's not rocket science; it's just how it is and you were/still are wrong to make the original point (and several after)

didnt even add the numbers up correctly. total attendance is 453,734


get a new calculator sven

Got to be fair, I miscalculated the number of games played but adjusted and admitted it. Still well over 30k average though and you can't deny that or the prices they charge for the (conservatively) 20K+ non-season ticket holders, can you?

Problem is, you've dug yourself in and just won't admit to your own error and cannot even come up with contrary figures, which leaves you clear to 'suggest' your theories and nothing else!

I'm not for or against things you say; to me, you're either right or wrong and in this case, you're simply wrong but you just can't admit it. You prefer reverting to the stuff above in some weak attempt to deflect from the original point

Did my research and (unlike you) backed up my original statement, according to the links provided

I await your evidence to the contrary. I'm here (on and off) all evening ready to bat it back!

You talk about facts but your at it again. They have a minimum 15k season ticket holders (likely more) so where did 20k+ non season ticket holders come from??

Not even close to a 30 quid average and you haven’t proved anything otherwise

Leeds cheapest adult season ticket is 21.50 per match even if all the 15k were on the cheapest its still over 350k and with the walk up paying 39 plus its still a hell of a lot more than us

And all the kids season tickets are 3 quid per match , or 7.50.

16-22 and over 60 are 16.50 per match

The point is that its a lot more than our match day revenue weve had the safety net of parachute payments recently

didnt even add the numbers up correctly. total attendance is 453,734


get a new calculator sven

Got to be fair, I miscalculated the number of games played but adjusted and admitted it. Still well over 30k average though and you can't deny that or the prices they charge for the (conservatively) 20K+ non-season ticket holders, can you?

Problem is, you've dug yourself in and just won't admit to your own error and cannot even come up with contrary figures, which leaves you clear to 'suggest' your theories and nothing else!

I'm not for or against things you say; to me, you're either right or wrong and in this case, you're simply wrong but you just can't admit it. You prefer reverting to the stuff above in some weak attempt to deflect from the original point

Did my research and (unlike you) backed up my original statement, according to the links provided

I await your evidence to the contrary. I'm here (on and off) all evening ready to bat it back!

You talk about facts but your at it again. They have a minimum 15k season ticket holders (likely more) so where did 20k+ non season ticket holders come from??

Not even close to a 30 quid average and you haven’t proved anything otherwise

Leeds cheapest adult season ticket is 21.50 per match even if all the 15k were on the cheapest its still over 350k and with the walk up paying 39 plus its still a hell of a lot more than us

And all the kids season tickets are 3 quid per match , or 7.50.

16-22 and over 60 are 16.50 per match

The point is that its a lot more than our match day revenue weve had the safety net of parachute payments recently

Yeah I just don’t think it’s groundbreaking when it’s transferred into actual transfer budget /wages

Even reckons they rake in 23m a season but the reality is that averaging 10k more than another club doesn’t give you a massive advantage

Totally can’t compete

You can only polish freebies for a certain time, if we are promoted then we are screwed as next to no investment will be made in my opinion mainly due to player prices

Totally can’t compete

You can only polish freebies for a certain time, if we are promoted then we are screwed as next to no investment will be made in my opinion mainly due to player prices

Very true but I believe and it is only my opinion that we probably have two maybe three who are Premier League standard.

I think that of course Cardiff are not spending as much as the other clubs, but you don't have to keep chucking money for players, I think that Cardiff are playing it safe and will do there main transfers in the summer

Just a point about Villa. When we were relegated last season, we had the advantage of a huge parachute payment, plus a decent wedge from players that we sold. We were in a very strong position.

Last summer, a lot of that money was wasted £12m on Ross McCormack, £5m on Arron Tishibola, £4m on an Italian goalie who doesn't want to play in England. On top of that, we signed players like Tommy Elphick and Richie De Laet who are nowhere near the first team. In addition, we have some of the highest paid players in the division who can't even make the bench: Micha Richards, Gabby and Ross McCormack.

Any advantage we had with parachute payments has long since been thrown away. In fairness to Steve Bruce, he had to sell to buy last January and in the summer was forced to look at the loan market. This window, we have no money to spend.

Villa are on a tightrope with FFP due to the wage bill and the inability to shift high earners. Where I do think we have an advantage over many teams is that we are an attractive proposition for this division - We are expected to be challenging, our training ground is of a very high standard and we are a high profile club.

My feeling is that once the first year in the Championship passes, relegated clubs are no longer in a better position financially than long standing Championship sides. As others have alluded to, throwing money at it does not guarantee promotion in any case.

Just a point about Villa. When we were relegated last season, we had the advantage of a huge parachute payment, plus a decent wedge from players that we sold. We were in a very strong position.

Last summer, a lot of that money was wasted £12m on Ross McCormack, £5m on Arron Tishibola, £4m on an Italian goalie who doesn't want to play in England. On top of that, we signed players like Tommy Elphick and Richie De Laet who are nowhere near the first team. In addition, we have some of the highest paid players in the division who can't even make the bench: Micha Richards, Gabby and Ross McCormack.

Any advantage we had with parachute payments has long since been thrown away. In fairness to Steve Bruce, he had to sell to buy last January and in the summer was forced to look at the loan market. This window, we have no money to spend.

Villa are on a tightrope with FFP due to the wage bill and the inability to shift high earners. Where I do think we have an advantage over many teams is that we are an attractive proposition for this division - We are expected to be challenging, our training ground is of a very high standard and we are a high profile club.

My feeling is that once the first year in the Championship passes, relegated clubs are no longer in a better position financially than long standing Championship sides. As others have alluded to, throwing money at it does not guarantee promotion in any case.

Aren't these just examples of money not spent well though? Surely we have a manager to back as he's got us to 3rd place with a small investment. Fans can see we are a striker short and getting a good one might cost

Just a point about Villa. When we were relegated last season, we had the advantage of a huge parachute payment, plus a decent wedge from players that we sold. We were in a very strong position.

Last summer, a lot of that money was wasted £12m on Ross McCormack, £5m on Arron Tishibola, £4m on an Italian goalie who doesn't want to play in England. On top of that, we signed players like Tommy Elphick and Richie De Laet who are nowhere near the first team. In addition, we have some of the highest paid players in the division who can't even make the bench: Micha Richards, Gabby and Ross McCormack.

Any advantage we had with parachute payments has long since been thrown away. In fairness to Steve Bruce, he had to sell to buy last January and in the summer was forced to look at the loan market. This window, we have no money to spend.

Villa are on a tightrope with FFP due to the wage bill and the inability to shift high earners. Where I do think we have an advantage over many teams is that we are an attractive proposition for this division - We are expected to be challenging, our training ground is of a very high standard and we are a high profile club.

My feeling is that once the first year in the Championship passes, relegated clubs are no longer in a better position financially than long standing Championship sides. As others have alluded to, throwing money at it does not guarantee promotion in any case.

Good points, we had the same issues, probably worse with Ole Gunner, he set us back five years. I think you will give it a push as you are close, and face FFP at the end of the season. if you go up it wouldn't really matter, if you don't you've probably had it for a good few seasons.

Just a point about Villa. When we were relegated last season, we had the advantage of a huge parachute payment, plus a decent wedge from players that we sold. We were in a very strong position.

Last summer, a lot of that money was wasted £12m on Ross McCormack, £5m on Arron Tishibola, £4m on an Italian goalie who doesn't want to play in England. On top of that, we signed players like Tommy Elphick and Richie De Laet who are nowhere near the first team. In addition, we have some of the highest paid players in the division who can't even make the bench: Micha Richards, Gabby and Ross McCormack.

Any advantage we had with parachute payments has long since been thrown away. In fairness to Steve Bruce, he had to sell to buy last January and in the summer was forced to look at the loan market. This window, we have no money to spend.

Villa are on a tightrope with FFP due to the wage bill and the inability to shift high earners. Where I do think we have an advantage over many teams is that we are an attractive proposition for this division - We are expected to be challenging, our training ground is of a very high standard and we are a high profile club.

My feeling is that once the first year in the Championship passes, relegated clubs are no longer in a better position financially than long standing Championship sides. As others have alluded to, throwing money at it does not guarantee promotion in any case.

Good points, we had the same issues, probably worse with Ole Gunner, he set us back five years. I think you will give it a push as you are close, and face FFP at the end of the season. if you go up it wouldn't really matter, if you don't you've probably had it for a good few seasons.

Wouldn't be the end of the world for me if we didn't go up mate. If offered it, I would snatch it but I've really enjoyed the last 18 months. The level of competition in this division is unreal and having more games to go to is a bonus.

Big clubs will always outbid small clubs, that’s the only reason we can’t compete. We have small crowds, they have big crowds and negotiate big sponsorship details, we can’t compete money wise. They shop at M&S we have to shop at Lidl