I have to say my bit Britain's Worse Nightmare

What are Diane Abbots views on immigration.

What are Theresa May's considering she oversaw record immigration as Home Secretary?

The Torys are stating once we take back control of our borders they will get immigration to 10's of 1000's.

What's the labour target.

Honestly, claims that Corbyn et al are a bigger threat to our national security than May et al just defy belief. It's clearly the stuff of right wing media sound bites.

Let's look at the facts. I hate to politicise the Manchester bombing but it cannot be ignored. May was repeatedly warned that cut backs to police and security intelligence would make us vulnerable to an attack. She ignored those warnings. Manchester was the victim of the grim reality of those cuts. That's not spin or political bias. That's fact.

As for Corbyn being a terrorist sympathiser and IRA lover? What a load of BS. Corbyn has never done anything but condemn individuals that have caused harm to innocent people. How did the Good Friday Agreement come about? All parties sat down and talked it out. They understood enough blood had been shed and talking was the only way to achieve peace. Who was pushing for that approach for years before it actually happened? Corbyn. However, he gets labelled a terrorist sympathiser for simply suggesting talking is the way forward. As a sidenote, he's not had the same attitude with ISIS. He accepts some groups cannot be reasoned with but this whole idea that he's a threat to national security?

We are dealing in facts here. May, based on the facts, with her defensive cuts, threats against neighbouring countries over disputed territories, and robust rhetoric regarding Brexit negotiations, is the far bigger threat to our national security than Corbyn who has simply been a supporter of peace. Just look at his voting record. Voting against the wars in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I wonder where we'd be now if the government had listened to Corbyn? I severely doubt we'd be seeing armed police on our streets on bank holiday weekend.

Where to start with this myopic shite?
Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and several more prominent Labour leaders supported the IRA, not the peaceful Republican Party, the SDLP Alliance, indeed Comrade Corbyn called SDLP leader John Hume a sell out.
What do you suggest we do with "disputed" British territories roll over and give them up.
Far higher police numbers did not prevent the 7/7 attacks.
If you are stupid enough to believe we are attacked because of our foreign policy you really haven't got a clue about fundamentalist Islam their aims and objectives.
As for the default position of the left, anyone disagreeing with you does so because they get all their news from the right wing media, really, are you that blinkered. BBC,Channel 4, CNN, and numerous printed media outlets have an absurd left wing bias.
But what's the point, your voting Labour, just like your dad you've always voted Labour and you always will, everything wrong in your own life is the fault of the evil Torys.

Nice to see someone using actual facts Jock, well said that man

ps. why does Thornberry always seem stoned when on tv.

Facts?

why not point out anything I've posted that's not factual

Honestly, claims that Corbyn et al are a bigger threat to our national security than May et al just defy belief. It's clearly the stuff of right wing media sound bites.

Let's look at the facts. I hate to politicise the Manchester bombing but it cannot be ignored. May was repeatedly warned that cut backs to police and security intelligence would make us vulnerable to an attack. She ignored those warnings. Manchester was the victim of the grim reality of those cuts. That's not spin or political bias. That's fact.

As for Corbyn being a terrorist sympathiser and IRA lover? What a load of BS. Corbyn has never done anything but condemn individuals that have caused harm to innocent people. How did the Good Friday Agreement come about? All parties sat down and talked it out. They understood enough blood had been shed and talking was the only way to achieve peace. Who was pushing for that approach for years before it actually happened? Corbyn. However, he gets labelled a terrorist sympathiser for simply suggesting talking is the way forward. As a sidenote, he's not had the same attitude with ISIS. He accepts some groups cannot be reasoned with but this whole idea that he's a threat to national security?

We are dealing in facts here. May, based on the facts, with her defensive cuts, threats against neighbouring countries over disputed territories, and robust rhetoric regarding Brexit negotiations, is the far bigger threat to our national security than Corbyn who has simply been a supporter of peace. Just look at his voting record. Voting against the wars in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I wonder where we'd be now if the government had listened to Corbyn? I severely doubt we'd be seeing armed police on our streets on bank holiday weekend.

Where to start with this myopic shite?
Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and several more prominent Labour leaders supported the IRA, not the peaceful Republican Party, the SDLP Alliance, indeed Comrade Corbyn called SDLP leader John Hume a sell out.
What do you suggest we do with "disputed" British territories roll over and give them up.
Far higher police numbers did not prevent the 7/7 attacks.
If you are stupid enough to believe we are attacked because of our foreign policy you really haven't got a clue about fundamentalist Islam their aims and objectives.
As for the default position of the left, anyone disagreeing with you does so because they get all their news from the right wing media, really, are you that blinkered. BBC,Channel 4, CNN, and numerous printed media outlets have an absurd left wing bias.
But what's the point, your voting Labour, just like your dad you've always voted Labour and you always will, everything wrong in your own life is the fault of the evil Torys.

The agenda that the Sun, the daily Mail and the Express are running in demonising Jeremy Corbyn is not working. People have taken to his brilliant way of campaigning . People are listening and want no more austerity.

Yawn zzzzzzzzzzz the agenda the Guardian, Mirror, BBC etc are running in demonising Theresa May is not working try and get the bigger picture, most news outlets have a political bias.
Nobody wanted austerity so tell me how will Corbyn and Abbott bring about an end to it, will they do what Labour always do and shake the magic money tree.

This thing about getting involved in wars abroad bringing terrorism on us is rubbish imho.

How is it that Germany and Sweden get bombed ?

ISIS own material doesn't say anything about Oraq war etc.. it's irrelevant, they just want to wipe out all unbelievers.

If we'd sat on our hands like we have in Syria then there would have been a massacre like there is there, oh and guess what, thousands of unhappy refugees feeling they had been abandoned and ignored by the West on their way over.

Doing nothing would not have meant terrorism stopped.
It's a ridiculous suggestion and giving the terrorists an excuse by blaming their actions on this frankly makes me sick.

It was a labour decision backed by the vast majority for a government that I voted for and would agsin, but not the currentperennial protestors who live in dream land

Couldn't agree more. Back in 2003 there was no option but to go to war after what happened with 9/11. The mistake was not having a credible exit strategy. But either way Islamic Terrorism was going to happen because as you stated they hate our way of life and are so brainwashed by their disgusting religion they believe they are doing 'God's' work.

Agreed.
Having no exit strategy was a big mistake as was not ensuring there was a stronger message as to why we were going in.
All a bit rushed and I'll thought.

But was it wrong ? Who knows. I don't think Blair could win either way with that one.

I have just gone through my previous voting pattern, as a person i am a reflector

87- SDP
92 - Liberals
97- labour
01- labour
05 - labour
10- libs
15 - UKIP
17-Tories

So why did a centre left voter drift so right in middle age ? I just can't see how socialism or social democratic policies can work in such a globalised world. The welfare system and NHS however correct and noble can not function as if its 1948 or even the 80's with so much migration or immigration. We have such an open compassionate system that someone who has or his forefathers never paid into the system take so much out.

The problem is no party has the balls to talk openly about the issue and when May tried to have a sensible conversation about old age care she lost 10 points in the polls.
The world is basically selfish. Baby boomers have had the lot and want to keep it, generation x (me) are hanging on their coattails, generation Y an millennials are so self absorbed and want everything now for themselves, they appear to care for appearance sake but can't be arsed to do anything about it. This is why i believe the polls always over estimate the left vote.

Oh yes the Utopia of no military spending will solve the debt gap i hear the true left scream, but in todays climate that can't be further from the truth.

Most compassionate people would love to go with Corbyns idea's but unless he genuinely said how he would really fund it he won't be taken seriously. Double VAT to 40% would be transparent and reasonably fair, but issuing 40 and 50 year bonds to pay for a five year failure would cripple our next two generations. We only stopped paying for WW2 in 2006, that is the last time we issued bonds of such duration !!!!

I am not really a tory, but a pragmatist.

As a pragmatist I believe that in the modern world there is no need for such a small amount of people to own so much of the wealth. It is obscene that football players can earn £300,000pw, Phillip Green can be a 3 times billionaire by stealing from pension funds plus huge firms like Amazon and Starbucks can pay next to no corporation tax by using tax avoidance schemes.

Your point about the world being selfish is spot on, but you have chosen the wrong targets. If everyone paid their fair share instead of being greedy then we could fund public services in the 21st Century.

There's a simple way around this and that's a small turnover tax on all businesses.
If this was also combined with a reduction in employers NI then it would rebalance trade and competition between those who make in the U.K. using British labour and those that import, paying duties that are usually well below MI rates.

It would also ensure the likes ofAmazon have to pay something.

Is also increase VAT rates on luxury goods and combine Income Tax with NI to simplify tax and allow us to have some transparency on rates and then change the rates to progressive rates with many layers.
E.g.
First £14k no tax
10% on next £2k
15% on next £3k
20% on next £5k
25% on next £8k
30% on next £12k etc... up to say 40-50%


So then instead of big jumps from one level to another there is a gradual increase, so that people aren't encouraged to change their behaviours to avoid say a 20% increase in their tax

:o

if they are elected , i will join you in spain

I have just gone through my previous voting pattern, as a person i am a reflector

87- SDP
92 - Liberals
97- labour
01- labour
05 - labour
10- libs
15 - UKIP
17-Tories

So why did a centre left voter drift so right in middle age ? I just can't see how socialism or social democratic policies can work in such a globalised world. The welfare system and NHS however correct and noble can not function as if its 1948 or even the 80's with so much migration or immigration. We have such an open compassionate system that someone who has or his forefathers never paid into the system take so much out.

The problem is no party has the balls to talk openly about the issue and when May tried to have a sensible conversation about old age care she lost 10 points in the polls.
The world is basically selfish. Baby boomers have had the lot and want to keep it, generation x (me) are hanging on their coattails, generation Y an millennials are so self absorbed and want everything now for themselves, they appear to care for appearance sake but can't be arsed to do anything about it. This is why i believe the polls always over estimate the left vote.

Oh yes the Utopia of no military spending will solve the debt gap i hear the true left scream, but in todays climate that can't be further from the truth.

Most compassionate people would love to go with Corbyns idea's but unless he genuinely said how he would really fund it he won't be taken seriously. Double VAT to 40% would be transparent and reasonably fair, but issuing 40 and 50 year bonds to pay for a five year failure would cripple our next two generations. We only stopped paying for WW2 in 2006, that is the last time we issued bonds of such duration !!!!

I am not really a tory, but a pragmatist.

As a pragmatist I believe that in the modern world there is no need for such a small amount of people to own so much of the wealth. It is obscene that football players can earn £300,000pw, Phillip Green can be a 3 times billionaire by stealing from pension funds plus huge firms like Amazon and Starbucks can pay next to no corporation tax by using tax avoidance schemes.

Your point about the world being selfish is spot on, but you have chosen the wrong targets. If everyone paid their fair share instead of being greedy then we could fund public services in the 21st Century.

The overall problem is that most who manage to take do not put back in. If there was a system where they were enforced to put back in we would have paid for WWII many decades ago.

The most hated man in America Martin Shkreli bought a Pharmaceutical company that had the rights to a drug that helped Aids sufferers. The drug sold for $13 (£8) but rose to $750 once this Shkreli guy took ownership of the company. This highlights everything wrong with capitalism and it is things like this were you think a bit of socialism is the answer.

I don't believe in capitalism. I also don't believe in socialism because somewhere there is a capitalist in there like Blair. In my life I have yet to see a party anywhere near the middle.

I have just gone through my previous voting pattern, as a person i am a reflector

87- SDP
92 - Liberals
97- labour
01- labour
05 - labour
10- libs
15 - UKIP
17-Tories

So why did a centre left voter drift so right in middle age ? I just can't see how socialism or social democratic policies can work in such a globalised world. The welfare system and NHS however correct and noble can not function as if its 1948 or even the 80's with so much migration or immigration. We have such an open compassionate system that someone who has or his forefathers never paid into the system take so much out.

The problem is no party has the balls to talk openly about the issue and when May tried to have a sensible conversation about old age care she lost 10 points in the polls.
The world is basically selfish. Baby boomers have had the lot and want to keep it, generation x (me) are hanging on their coattails, generation Y an millennials are so self absorbed and want everything now for themselves, they appear to care for appearance sake but can't be arsed to do anything about it. This is why i believe the polls always over estimate the left vote.

Oh yes the Utopia of no military spending will solve the debt gap i hear the true left scream, but in todays climate that can't be further from the truth.

Most compassionate people would love to go with Corbyns idea's but unless he genuinely said how he would really fund it he won't be taken seriously. Double VAT to 40% would be transparent and reasonably fair, but issuing 40 and 50 year bonds to pay for a five year failure would cripple our next two generations. We only stopped paying for WW2 in 2006, that is the last time we issued bonds of such duration !!!!

I am not really a tory, but a pragmatist.

As a pragmatist I believe that in the modern world there is no need for such a small amount of people to own so much of the wealth. It is obscene that football players can earn £300,000pw, Phillip Green can be a 3 times billionaire by stealing from pension funds plus huge firms like Amazon and Starbucks can pay next to no corporation tax by using tax avoidance schemes.

Your point about the world being selfish is spot on, but you have chosen the wrong targets. If everyone paid their fair share instead of being greedy then we could fund public services in the 21st Century.

But without "the market" there will be need of a world wide arbiter who'll will that be...........Another crownie of the system.

The market place is the only arbiter. If you want to pay a player £30K a week and you can afford it, then so be it. We don't have to watch the team play, or listen to the musician or any discretionary purchases.

We have had centre right or left governments since 25 years, if what Philip Green done illegal then he should face trial. But when countries that are considered our close friends offer our corporations huge incentives to offshore any profits like Luxembourg, Ireland and the Netherlands what can you do. The system is shot, and it won't change. This is why true lefties want out of the the ultimate Corporate whore the European Union.

I don't know what the answer is, but believing we can spend our way out and pay for it tomorrow when we are already broke is mental

Honestly, claims that Corbyn et al are a bigger threat to our national security than May et al just defy belief. It's clearly the stuff of right wing media sound bites.

Let's look at the facts. I hate to politicise the Manchester bombing but it cannot be ignored. May was repeatedly warned that cut backs to police and security intelligence would make us vulnerable to an attack. She ignored those warnings. Manchester was the victim of the grim reality of those cuts. That's not spin or political bias. That's fact.

As for Corbyn being a terrorist sympathiser and IRA lover? What a load of BS. Corbyn has never done anything but condemn individuals that have caused harm to innocent people. How did the Good Friday Agreement come about? All parties sat down and talked it out. They understood enough blood had been shed and talking was the only way to achieve peace. Who was pushing for that approach for years before it actually happened? Corbyn. However, he gets labelled a terrorist sympathiser for simply suggesting talking is the way forward. As a sidenote, he's not had the same attitude with ISIS. He accepts some groups cannot be reasoned with but this whole idea that he's a threat to national security?

We are dealing in facts here. May, based on the facts, with her defensive cuts, threats against neighbouring countries over disputed territories, and robust rhetoric regarding Brexit negotiations, is the far bigger threat to our national security than Corbyn who has simply been a supporter of peace. Just look at his voting record. Voting against the wars in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. I wonder where we'd be now if the government had listened to Corbyn? I severely doubt we'd be seeing armed police on our streets on bank holiday weekend.

Where to start with this myopic shite?
Corbyn, Abbott, McDonnell and several more prominent Labour leaders supported the IRA, not the peaceful Republican Party, the SDLP Alliance, indeed Comrade Corbyn called SDLP leader John Hume a sell out.
What do you suggest we do with "disputed" British territories roll over and give them up.
Far higher police numbers did not prevent the 7/7 attacks.
If you are stupid enough to believe we are attacked because of our foreign policy you really haven't got a clue about fundamentalist Islam their aims and objectives.
As for the default position of the left, anyone disagreeing with you does so because they get all their news from the right wing media, really, are you that blinkered. BBC,Channel 4, CNN, and numerous printed media outlets have an absurd left wing bias.
But what's the point, your voting Labour, just like your dad you've always voted Labour and you always will, everything wrong in your own life is the fault of the evil Torys.

Nice to see someone using actual facts Jock, well said that man

ps. why does Thornberry always seem stoned when on tv.

Facts?

Should I say more facts in reply rather than what was responded to.