' CARDIFF CITY LOSE £8.7MILL AS WAGE BILL SLASHED '

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

I can`t disagree with that. The financial mess shouldn`t have been created in the first place. However, if the current work on cost reduction continues and the debt to equity conversion is finalised, then the club will be in a far stronger position than when he took over.

I have also managed to find those debt level figures. These are the net deficit figures (total liabilities less total assets) for the last 7 years , each ending on 31 May

2010 - £4.5m
2011 - £15.9m
2012 - £28.1m
2013 - £56.3m
2014 - £65.8m
2015 - £58.9m
2016 - £67.7m

So net debt has gone up by £63.2m over the period. However , a full debt to equity conversion of the £101m owed to VT as at 31 May 2016 would mean that the net deficit of £4.5m would have been converted into a net surplus of £32m , an improvement of nearly £37m .

Thanks once again Keith

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

Exactly,i think deoman will eventually take over

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

Exactly,i think deoman will eventually take over

Who is he Wez?

















ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

Sorry Keith another question has our Chairman Dalman lent our club Cardiff City more money and in total over the last few years to the amount of approx £16mill at 8% interest?

Also for me this is massive interest as interest has been and is currently at an all time low.

Sorry Keith another question has our Chairman Dalman lent our club Cardiff City more money and in total over the last few years to the amount of approx £16mill at 8% interest?

Also for me this is massive interest as interest has been and is currently at an all time low.

I agree about the interest rate but this money seems to have loaned at high risk and without being secured. It is basically a loan off Wonga and attracts a similar rate of interest.

My commentary on the accounts is on the Trust website if you want to cut and paste it onto here


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=182801

Well im confused
I thought ffp is over 3 year periods and you must not go over 39 million losses in that 3 year period
we made 3.8 million 2 seasons ago lost 8.7 million last season , that is a 4.9 million loss over 2 seasons how the hell are we anywhere near in breach of ffp
also go back 3 and 4 seasons ago we must of lost over those 2 seasons well over 40 million for us to have been under that transfer embargo
or am I wrong and being the forum fool once again as some call me

The rules changed starting from the current season. Financial Fair Play is now badged as Profitability and Sustainability.Chris Wathan did a good article on this recently for Walesonline.

The average over three year period loss is £5m a season. If over that figure , it can go up to an average of £13m a season if the £8m balance is made up by NEW money introduced by the owners (i.e. new real cash , not a debt to equity conversion or a loan write off). If the loss is over £5m , the club has to provide evidence of this new cash injection and also has to provide a two year profit projection to show the loss levels will not be repeated in the future.

The £3.8m profit in 2014/15 was adjusted into a £10m loss by the League not allowing a £13m accounting adjustment to do with long term loans in the period (an adjustment which had to be made to comply with accounting rules).

Thanks Keith I have being trying to find out the exact FFP rules for ages. Not as simple as I thought then

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

Exactly,i think deoman will eventually take over

Who is he Wez?

















ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

typo dalman

I am confused which don't take a lot

Is the Langstone debt cleared or not ?

I am sure I read that Keith said there was no money outstanding to Sam but now your saying that there is more money owed if we get back to the premier ?

Is this loan from Tormen a way of introducing new money into the club to avoid financial fair play regulations as it is classsed as new money and could we see potentially more introduced this way ?

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

I have to laugh Luke from £24mill in debt and a squad worth £millions to a club up to £200mill in debt and had years of sky parachute payments, and don't foget 11 years have gone by,you still can't admit we are in trouble today because of the way Vincent Tan has run our club.

You still blame previous owners for the shambles we are in now

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

I have to laugh Luke from £24mill in debt and a squad worth £millions to a club up to £200mill in debt and had years of sky parachute payments, and don't foget 11 years have gone by,you still can't admit we are in trouble today because of the way Vincent Tan has run our club.

You still blame previous owners for the shambles we are in now

Simples if previous owners had not screwed up our finances we wouldn't have needed outside help and tan wouldn't have got involved, so yes ultimately previous owners Inc Sam are directly to blame and that is a fact

P's at least present owner is going to sort out his mess ! what did previous owner do to sort out mess?

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

I have to laugh Luke from £24mill in debt and a squad worth £millions to a club up to £200mill in debt and had years of sky parachute payments, and don't foget 11 years have gone by,you still can't admit we are in trouble today because of the way Vincent Tan has run our club.

You still blame previous owners for the shambles we are in now

Simples if previous owners had not screwed up our finances we wouldn't have needed outside help and tan wouldn't have got involved, so yes ultimately previous owners Inc Sam are directly to blame and that is a fact

P's at least present owner is going to sort out his mess ! what did previous owner do to sort out mess?

That's gone for years Tony Clemo Kumar Brothers etc etc

Even you have to admit Allan
You can't keep blaming the past, as we could go back 50 years

Tans has had over 7 years of running our club and has had at least 6 CEO'S and has had well over £150 mill come in to the club and up to now the club has been run dire, only now we are finally getting somewhere

My concern all along has been this debt conversion which has been talked about for many years. Only a slight dent has been made to date, and the common phrase seems to be if and when the conversion takes place. As far as I can see, we are a club still massively in debt, and the purse strings are going to have to remain tightly secured for the forseeable future. I said at the begining of this season our main focus was cost cutting, and next season will be the same. This is the reason I do not share the enthusiasm of others on here about our promotion prospects for next year. I think Warnock is going to have to be a miracle worker to get us promoted on the sort of money that will be made available to him. I said exactly the same thing about our previous manager last Summer.

My concern all along has been this debt conversion which has been talked about for many years. Only a slight dent has been made to date, and the common phrase seems to be if and when the conversion takes place. As far as I can see, we are a club still massively in debt, and the purse strings are going to have to remain tightly secured for the forseeable future. I said at the begining of this season our main focus was cost cutting, and next season will be the same. This is the reason I do not share the enthusiasm of others on here about our promotion prospects for next year. I think Warnock is going to have to be a miracle worker to get us promoted on the sort of money that will be made available to him. I said exactly the same thing about our previous manager last Summer.

Watch yourself Steve, I brought this up a few years ago and got slaughtered by the usual Tan followers and was told Tan needs time even though it's been stated many times Tan is in the middle of doing it.
Malky was first blamed for the delay and then Langston.

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

I have to laugh Luke from £24mill in debt and a squad worth £millions to a club up to £200mill in debt and had years of sky parachute payments, and don't foget 11 years have gone by,you still can't admit we are in trouble today because of the way Vincent Tan has run our club.

You still blame previous owners for the shambles we are in now

Annis

The club has never been £200m in debt and parachute payments had only been received for two years as at the date of the May 2016 accounts.

What is the 11 year reference?

Sorry Keith another question has our Chairman Dalman lent our club Cardiff City more money and in total over the last few years to the amount of approx £16mill at 8% interest?

Also for me this is massive interest as interest has been and is currently at an all time low.

A company in which he has a major interest- Tormen- had lent the club £13.5m as at 31 May last year. I have no idea whether further LANs have been made since.

The interest charges are not massive at all in my opinion for the risk involved in lending to a business like CCFC. I have seen far higher rates of interest charged in similar cases elsewhere.It is also a similar rate to that charged by others, including Sam, in recent years

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

I have to laugh Luke from £24mill in debt and a squad worth £millions to a club up to £200mill in debt and had years of sky parachute payments, and don't foget 11 years have gone by,you still can't admit we are in trouble today because of the way Vincent Tan has run our club.

You still blame previous owners for the shambles we are in now

Annis

The club has never been £200m in debt and parachute payments had only been received for two years as at the date of the May 2016 accounts.

What is the 11 year reference?

Keith
Ref to last time Sam owned us as he was still being blamed.

As to the £200 mill Dalman on numerous times had told the media Tan has put that on, I find that hard to believe as our income from sky,sponsors, gate money, merchandise where has it all gone?

Sorry Keith another question has our Chairman Dalman lent our club Cardiff City more money and in total over the last few years to the amount of approx £16mill at 8% interest?

Also for me this is massive interest as interest has been and is currently at an all time low.

?

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

I have to laugh Luke from £24mill in debt and a squad worth £millions to a club up to £200mill in debt and had years of sky parachute payments, and don't foget 11 years have gone by,you still can't admit we are in trouble today because of the way Vincent Tan has run our club.

You still blame previous owners for the shambles we are in now

Annis

The club has never been £200m in debt and parachute payments had only been received for two years as at the date of the May 2016 accounts.

What is the 11 year reference?

Keith
Ref to last time Sam owned us as he was still being blamed.

As to the £200 mill Dalman on numerous times had told the media Tan has put that on, I find that hard to believe as our income from sky,sponsors, gate money, merchandise where has it all gone?

£200m might be the total amount ( rounded up) that Vincent Tan put into the club in total but the debt level never reached anywhere near that figure because of regular large debt write offs and conversions of debt to equity.

The money has all gone in funding the losses made each year due to the running costs of the club being far too high.

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

I have to laugh Luke from £24mill in debt and a squad worth £millions to a club up to £200mill in debt and had years of sky parachute payments, and don't foget 11 years have gone by,you still can't admit we are in trouble today because of the way Vincent Tan has run our club.

You still blame previous owners for the shambles we are in now

Annis

The club has never been £200m in debt and parachute payments had only been received for two years as at the date of the May 2016 accounts.

What is the 11 year reference?

Keith
Ref to last time Sam owned us as he was still being blamed.

As to the £200 mill Dalman on numerous times had told the media Tan has put that on, I find that hard to believe as our income from sky,sponsors, gate money, merchandise where has it all gone?

£200m might be the total amount ( rounded up) that Vincent Tan put into the club in total but the debt level never reached anywhere near that figure because of regular large debt write offs and conversions of debt to equity.

The money has all gone in funding the losses made each year due to the running costs of the club being far too high.

Keith, so what is the highest it's reached?

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

Annis I don't think it matters, he still had to pay Sam off with his own money while paying off the people who had court orders against us to wind us up. He's still paying for the mess of others. Tan seems to be the only one who is actually paying for his mistakes and others.

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

Annis I don't think it matters, he still had to pay Sam off with his own money while paying off the people who had court orders against us to wind us up. He's still paying for the mess of others. Tan seems to be the only one who is actually paying for his mistakes and others.

Luke, The majority of the debt that grew to its highest was Tan's anyway, its Tan who has created most of the debts can't you see that by now after 7 years.

Whatever the accounts say, there is always a clear agenda to try to blame Tan irrespective of how much money he puts into the club. Ffs let's pull together and move on.
If we could have a poll who has done more for the club Tan or Hamman I'd go for Tan even if he pulled out tomorrow.

Whatever the accounts say, there is always a clear agenda to try to blame Tan irrespective of how much money he puts into the club. Ffs let's pull together and move on.
If we could have a poll who has done more for the club Tan or Hamman I'd go for Tan even if he pulled out tomorrow.

Wouldn't go that far but as you can see tan is to blame regardless of whatever argument is used! No other owner paid off the debt they uncured running the club? While tan ecumilated debt like other owners did he is at least going to rectify his mistake! . Like I said did other owners do that answer NO.

Whatever the accounts say, there is always a clear agenda to try to blame Tan irrespective of how much money he puts into the club. Ffs let's pull together and move on.
If we could have a poll who has done more for the club Tan or Hamman I'd go for Tan even if he pulled out tomorrow.

Why are we brining Sam in to it,when Tan has run our club with full control for 7 years and I mean full control.

100% the current debts are all Tans.

Whatever the accounts say, there is always a clear agenda to try to blame Tan irrespective of how much money he puts into the club. Ffs let's pull together and move on.
If we could have a poll who has done more for the club Tan or Hamman I'd go for Tan even if he pulled out tomorrow.

Why are we brining Sam in to it,when Tan has run our club with full control for 7 years and I mean full control.

100% the current debts are all Tans.

How can the current debt all be tans when he paid sam off ?

All the money the club have wasted over the past few years they could have let the 6-8000 hardcore supporters have a free season ticket Hmmm

Whatever the accounts say, there is always a clear agenda to try to blame Tan irrespective of how much money he puts into the club. Ffs let's pull together and move on.
If we could have a poll who has done more for the club Tan or Hamman I'd go for Tan even if he pulled out tomorrow.

Why are we brining Sam in to it,when Tan has run our club with full control for 7 years and I mean full control.

100% the current debts are all Tans.

How can the current debt all be tans when he paid sam off ?

Wez, Tan agreed to the debt 7 years ago and agreed it with the Riddler.

When you agree a debt it becomes yours,he bought our club knowing it inside out and then run up massive debts himself.

Three questions.

Keith, Vincent Tan is currently keeping our club afloat I agree, but is it not years of bad management at the top that has caused our financial mess in the first place and that is why we are in this mess, yes or no?

I thinks its being stated that we are still currently £100mill in debt(I thought it was now actually lower?) and at one stage we reached nearly £200mill debt to Vincent Tan, so what was the actual debt of our club the day Vincent Tan bought in to our club?

And are you able to remember the actual debt our club had when Peter Ridsdale took over?

Cheers Keith

1) I agree that it is bad management over several years and several owners that has got the club into a financial mess

2) the debt owed to Vincent Tan as at 31 May 2016 was £101m and that owed to Tormen was £13.5m. I don`t think the debt ever reached anything like £200m due to Vincent Tan , although that might have been the total gross amount he has put into the club before writing part of it off and converting other parts into shares.
I can`t honestly remember the debt levels from years ago without digging out old sets of accounts (which I don`t have time to do today) , but they were far less than the current ones because the club has made substantial losses in recent years.
Part of the increase in debts is , of course , balanced out by the increase in assets such as the stadium since the Sam Hammam era.

Cheers Keith

To be realistic at this current moment Tan is getting himself out the mess caused during his own reign during the last 7 years.

But in that time didn't he also pay off Langston because of the mess Sam left behind?

At least Tan it seems is trying to pay off his own debt rather than leaving it for others to sort out.

ALL FACTS.

Yes I can answer that Luke, a debt which Riddler agreed to pay off and had a squad worth £30 mill at the time and outline planning for a new stadium and paid Zero off.
Tan then agreed to take on the debt after spending £1mill on checking it out etc, signed for it and then later tried to get out of it costing our club a further £5mill in more searches, court costs and then our club still will owe money in the future if it gets back to the Prem, so over all it cost our club many more £millions thanks to Tan.

Then after 7 years, 6 CEO's and 8 managers and a divided club,we are finally finally starting to get back on track as Keith said

Annis I don't think it matters, he still had to pay Sam off with his own money while paying off the people who had court orders against us to wind us up. He's still paying for the mess of others. Tan seems to be the only one who is actually paying for his mistakes and others.

Luke, The majority of the debt that grew to its highest was Tan's anyway, its Tan who has created most of the debts can't you see that by now after 7 years.

Yeah I appreciated that but that's not what I'm saying. Tan is making himself accountable for his debt and the debt of other owners and is writing off a lot of debt from his own pocket and in the process trying to make us self sufficient. Has any other owner done that? They just seem to pass the buck and them come crying to get every penny they can.