The great Peter Whittingham debate!

I wish articles that use statistics would give the full picture and not that pathetic example of win percentage without PW. What was our win percentage before PW arrived at the club? He has never been the sole reason for our victories or defeats.

I would like to see the stats on the ground he covers, his tackles made, his forward pass completion, his assists, and his goals. The most interesting stat would be his tackles made because I believe he would be close if not equal to Gunner. Just because he hasn't got a beared and isn't a beast like AG, people seem to think he doesn't tackle.

Simple argument for me. No one at Cardiff is irreplaceable but he has over 80 assists and over 90 goals in 360 odd games. His legs aren't gone and he's never relied on pace. There isn't anyone currently in our squad like him or can match his technical ability. Until we sign someone better than him it's a no brainier he has to stay. It's sad to say but I think some people will only realise how good he was when he actually leaves the city.

I would love to know the % of times when he goes missing in games? I don't argue he has been a great servant to the club but come on we know there have been times when games have passed him by on a regular basis.

Also he always seems to have these golden periods when his contract is up for renewal? That's why if he is given a new one now I would like to see it heavily incentivised so has a reason to deliver his best every game rather than take a few games off like he has done so many times before.

Whilst others in the squad will get paid much more than him for sitting in the stands. What an incentive!!!

It is common practise to insert incentives into contracts of players over 30's of age. For example Lambert has to play a certain number of games to trigger a second year.

Really don't see what the problem is?????

Playing X amount of games is completely different to paying bonus for assists. Ive never heard anything so ridiculous.

You want to put him on a basic wage of a third of players wages who are not even making the squad and he can only get close to their wages by performing and you dont see the problem? Behave.

I would suggest if you want to make radical changes to players contracts you start with the players who HAVENT performed before we start putting clauses in for those that have.

Market forces dictate wages anyway and Cardiff City would soon find themselves unable to attract players if you offered them the kind of contracts you and Wez want to introduce.

Brilliant buy he is a club legend but it is time to upgrade now he's coming to his end of his usefulNess for a first team starter, people use statistics alot to big him up but the fact is without him we win more games and that's down to his lack of pace and defensive ability without the ball

it would be interesting if the sample was bigger and not just shoe horned to make a point.
eg. Brian Murphy 2 games 1 win 50% does that also make it obvious to you that we win more with him than Marshall.
i think the real stat is 59 games for 3 different managers

Also, the stats are flawed. Surely the stat should be starting and not starting?

He started as a sub against Newcastle, come on when we were 2 down and got us back in the game but according to this little set of stats and Wez we lost that game because Whitts was involved.

Your the one using stats all the time especially about assists in last week's thread are you Whitts in disguise

No disguise needed Wez my support of PW7 is common knowledge.

You meanwhile seem to think the next Steven Gerrard is playing in the lower leagues somewhere and we can snap him up for 350k

Players have to come from somewhere why not ?

Because its 2017.

Brilliant buy he is a club legend but it is time to upgrade now he's coming to his end of his usefulNess for a first team starter, people use statistics alot to big him up but the fact is without him we win more games and that's down to his lack of pace and defensive ability without the ball

it would be interesting if the sample was bigger and not just shoe horned to make a point.
eg. Brian Murphy 2 games 1 win 50% does that also make it obvious to you that we win more with him than Marshall.
i think the real stat is 59 games for 3 different managers

Also, the stats are flawed. Surely the stat should be starting and not starting?

He started as a sub against Newcastle, come on when we were 2 down and got us back in the game but according to this little set of stats and Wez we lost that game because Whitts was involved.

Your the one using stats all the time especially about assists in last week's thread are you Whitts in disguise

No disguise needed Wez my support of PW7 is common knowledge.

You meanwhile seem to think the next Steven Gerrard is playing in the lower leagues somewhere and we can snap him up for 350k

Players have to come from somewhere why not ?

Because its 2017.

That's crap and you know it

I love it when people roll out these stats about the games won when Peter Whittingham was not playing without any reference to who we actually beat.

For instance how many of the 6 teams beaten in those 11 games without Whitts were in the top 6 NONE. How many were in the top half of the table ONE (Brentford 9th). The remaining 5 were between 15th and 24th. Last season we played top 6 sides 3 times without Whitts and got 2 draws and 1 defeat. There were 9 games where we played top 6 sides with Whitts and we won 3, drew 2 and lost 3.

Without doubt we are a much tougher team to take on with Whitts than without and, in my opinion, it beggars belief that anyone could consider getting rid of him.

In my opinion this is a poorly researched article by the latest excuse for a journalist to infest Walesonline.

Brilliant buy he is a club legend but it is time to upgrade now he's coming to his end of his usefulNess for a first team starter, people use statistics alot to big him up but the fact is without him we win more games and that's down to his lack of pace and defensive ability without the ball

it would be interesting if the sample was bigger and not just shoe horned to make a point.
eg. Brian Murphy 2 games 1 win 50% does that also make it obvious to you that we win more with him than Marshall.
i think the real stat is 59 games for 3 different managers

Also, the stats are flawed. Surely the stat should be starting and not starting?

He started as a sub against Newcastle, come on when we were 2 down and got us back in the game but according to this little set of stats and Wez we lost that game because Whitts was involved.

Your the one using stats all the time especially about assists in last week's thread are you Whitts in disguise

No disguise needed Wez my support of PW7 is common knowledge.

You meanwhile seem to think the next Steven Gerrard is playing in the lower leagues somewhere and we can snap him up for 350k

Players have to come from somewhere why not ?

Because its 2017.

That's crap and you know it

Wez theres kids in academys going for multi millions and you think someone who has "got it all" (Because thats what youre asking with Whitts technical ability + pace + power + defensive ability) is out there in the lower leagues somewhere available for 350k

Earth to Wez. Earth to Wez.

I love it when people roll out these stats about the games won when Peter Whittingham was not playing without any reference to who we actually beat.

For instance how many of the 6 teams beaten in those 11 games without Whitts were in the top 6 NONE. How many were in the top half of the table ONE (Brentford 9th). The remaining 5 were between 15th and 24th. Last season we played top 6 sides 3 times without Whitts and got 2 draws and 1 defeat. There were 9 games where we played top 6 sides with Whitts and we won 3, drew 2 and lost 3.

Without doubt we are a much tougher team to take on with Whitts than without and, in my opinion, it beggars belief that anyone could consider getting rid of him.

In my opinion this is a poorly researched article by the latest excuse for a journalist to infest Walesonline.

As wife often says to me. One day ill walk and you wont realise what you had until im gone.

Same applies to PW7 I feel.

pretty sure hes played a more than 398 times

pretty sure hes played a more than 398 times

He has the 398 are League games. He will soon become only the 6th player to top 400 League games for us ( Burton at Home) should do it.


A massive achievement and I hope the club do something to mark the occasion.

pretty sure hes played a more than 398 times

He has the 398 are League games. He will soon become only the 6th player to top 400 League games for us ( Burton at Home) should do it.


A massive achievement and I hope the club do something to mark the occasion.

They should retire the No.7 shirt when his services are no longer required

Have the number 7 City shirt framed on my office wall - nuff said.

Have the number 7 City shirt framed on my office wall - nuff said.

btw boy from Aberdare did the frame - Chris Davies Illustration on FB; does any design you want.

I'm having number 5 with the late 60's shirt next in honour of Don Murray, who I think emotionally has to be my all time favourite player for the City.

Brilliant buy he is a club legend but it is time to upgrade now he's coming to his end of his usefulNess for a first team starter, people use statistics alot to big him up but the fact is without him we win more games and that's down to his lack of pace and defensive ability without the ball

it would be interesting if the sample was bigger and not just shoe horned to make a point.
eg. Brian Murphy 2 games 1 win 50% does that also make it obvious to you that we win more with him than Marshall.
i think the real stat is 59 games for 3 different managers

Also, the stats are flawed. Surely the stat should be starting and not starting?

He started as a sub against Newcastle, come on when we were 2 down and got us back in the game but according to this little set of stats and Wez we lost that game because Whitts was involved.

Your the one using stats all the time especially about assists in last week's thread are you Whitts in disguise

No disguise needed Wez my support of PW7 is common knowledge.

You meanwhile seem to think the next Steven Gerrard is playing in the lower leagues somewhere and we can snap him up for 350k

Players have to come from somewhere why not ?

Because its 2017.

That's crap and you know it

Wez theres kids in academys going for multi millions and you think someone who has "got it all" (Because thats what youre asking with Whitts technical ability + pace + power + defensive ability) is out there in the lower leagues somewhere available for 350k

Earth to Wez. Earth to Wez.

Earth to polo 350k was 10 years ago what's the equivalent these days a couple of million ? How much did Jamie Verney cost hmmmmmm good players not in the lower leagues ???? Ali ,matt Phillips???? Your speaking poo wake up polo the players are there to be got

Read all the bollocks on stats etc .watch the games that's all you need to do .
He's a very good consistent football hasn't got a grumble in him just does what he wants and that's play for my club where's the blue shirt with pride .still produces the goods says nothing goes home comes back does it again.
Keep the man it's a no brainer for me .let him finish his days here then let stay on with the kids or development squad he knows city more than anyone at the club .
Then you have players like Alf who don't give a shit just want the money.
Whitts is an honest footballer who has given us so much over 10 brilliant years and continues to deliver.
For me he has to stay and he will.

Earth to polo 350k was 10 years ago what's the equivalent these days a couple of million ? How much did Jamie Verney cost hmmmmmm good players not in the lower leagues ???? Ali ,matt Phillips???? Your speaking poo wake up polo the players are there to be got

WHo the f*ck is Jamie Verney? Wheres he from? Grange Albion

Dele Ali cost multi millions a lot more than 350k plus inflation!!!!

Matt Phillips cant defend. Remember Wez you are looking for the new Whitts + pace + power + defnsive ability. For 2m.

Brilliant buy he is a club legend but it is time to upgrade now he's coming to his end of his usefulNess for a first team starter, people use statistics alot to big him up but the fact is without him we win more games and that's down to his lack of pace and defensive ability without the ball

it would be interesting if the sample was bigger and not just shoe horned to make a point.
eg. Brian Murphy 2 games 1 win 50% does that also make it obvious to you that we win more with him than Marshall.
i think the real stat is 59 games for 3 different managers

Also, the stats are flawed. Surely the stat should be starting and not starting?

He started as a sub against Newcastle, come on when we were 2 down and got us back in the game but according to this little set of stats and Wez we lost that game because Whitts was involved.

Your the one using stats all the time especially about assists in last week's thread are you Whitts in disguise

No disguise needed Wez my support of PW7 is common knowledge.

You meanwhile seem to think the next Steven Gerrard is playing in the lower leagues somewhere and we can snap him up for 350k

Players have to come from somewhere why not ?

Because its 2017.

That's crap and you know it

Wez theres kids in academys going for multi millions and you think someone who has "got it all" (Because thats what youre asking with Whitts technical ability + pace + power + defensive ability) is out there in the lower leagues somewhere available for 350k

Earth to Wez. Earth to Wez.

Earth to polo 350k was 10 years ago what's the equivalent these days a couple of million ? How much did Jamie Verney cost hmmmmmm good players not in the lower leagues ???? Ali ,matt Phillips???? Your speaking poo wake up polo the players are there to be got

Comedy gold £350K in 2007 = £485K 2016

http://inflation.stephenmorley.org/

We got away with kick and rush Monday, but that can't be the tactic for a season . We need to find another playmaker because Whitts has had a remarkably good fitness record even when we thrashed him with 40+ games a season.
Funny all the talk was about Whitts before the game, mis-direction by Warnock i believe.

Anthoney Knocheart from Brighton scared the crap out of me every time we played him but he wouldn't do half the work that Whitts does, especially that "getting stuck in" stuff.

2 hard men in the middle, two tricky wingers;a target man with a nippy striker all from yesteryear or the conference.

You need a footballer in the team at this level and we haven't got anyone better, so he has to stay for another two seasons at least, because it would have cost us about £5 million and big wages to get a ready made 27 year old in now, so we need to find another 22/23 year old and let him develop, with Whitts as his mentor.

It is common practise to insert incentives into contracts of players over 30's of age. For example Lambert has to play a certain number of games to trigger a second year.

Really don't see what the problem is?????

Playing X amount of games is completely different to paying bonus for assists. Ive never heard anything so ridiculous.

You want to put him on a basic wage of a third of players wages who are not even making the squad and he can only get close to their wages by performing and you dont see the problem? Behave.

I would suggest if you want to make radical changes to players contracts you start with the players who HAVENT performed before we start putting clauses in for those that have.

Market forces dictate wages anyway and Cardiff City would soon find themselves unable to attract players if you offered them the kind of contracts you and Wez want to introduce.

Utter nonsense. Polo your replies definitely fall into the quantity over quality category.

Whatever is in other players contract has no bearing on any contract between CCFC and any other player including Peter Whittingham. If the club offer a contract it is up to the player to decide if he wants to sign or not. If he does then he abides by it's terms and conditions.

Players over 30 bring an extra risk and that is accepted at every club. I fail to understand your logic that the club should just throw money at PW and ask for no guarantees in return. I stand by my opinion PW should be offered a contract based on incentives in the same way we did with Ricky Lambert. Incentives are just that it doesn't matter whether it is appearances, goals or assists it is up to the player to deliver if he wishes to gain extra payment from the T&C's of his contract. Pretty basic stuff.

Read all the bollocks on stats etc .watch the games that's all you need to do .
He's a very good consistent football hasn't got a grumble in him just does what he wants and that's play for my club where's the blue shirt with pride .still produces the goods says nothing goes home comes back does it again.
Keep the man it's a no brainer for me .let him finish his days here then let stay on with the kids or development squad he knows city more than anyone at the club .
Then you have players like Alf who don't give a shit just want the money.
Whitts is an honest footballer who has given us so much over 10 brilliant years and continues to deliver.
For me he has to stay and he will.

How much should the club be prepared to pay him?

We got away with kick and rush Monday, but that can't be the tactic for a season . We need to find another playmaker because Whitts has had a remarkably good fitness record even when we thrashed him with 40+ games a season.
Funny all the talk was about Whitts before the game, mis-direction by Warnock i believe.

Anthoney Knocheart from Brighton scared the crap out of me every time we played him but he wouldn't do half the work that Whitts does, especially that "getting stuck in" stuff.

2 hard men in the middle, two tricky wingers;a target man with a nippy striker all from yesteryear or the conference.

You need a footballer in the team at this level and we haven't got anyone better, so he has to stay for another two seasons at least, because it would have cost us about £5 million and big wages to get a ready made 27 year old in now, so we need to find another 22/23 year old and let him develop, with Whitts as his mentor.

If that's the case then why have we struggled to score goals for the past few seasons with Whitts in midfield? I can remember under Slade we used to have something like 30% procession even though we had this supposed brilliant player.

I don't want to knock him too much and he has been a great servant to the club. But I also remember the countless games when he went missing and had no incentive to take games by the scruff of the neck as he still went home with his £20kpw wages.

I want to see the game changing goal scoring PW more often. I don't see how giving him another big money contract without incentives is going to achieve that based on his past record of getting too comfortable and knowing putting in a good corner or free-kick every now and again will do. He is a player who needs incentives and we should recognise that before we waste another shed load of cash.

We got away with kick and rush Monday, but that can't be the tactic for a season . We need to find another playmaker because Whitts has had a remarkably good fitness record even when we thrashed him with 40+ games a season.
Funny all the talk was about Whitts before the game, mis-direction by Warnock i believe.

Anthoney Knocheart from Brighton scared the crap out of me every time we played him but he wouldn't do half the work that Whitts does, especially that "getting stuck in" stuff.

2 hard men in the middle, two tricky wingers;a target man with a nippy striker all from yesteryear or the conference.

You need a footballer in the team at this level and we haven't got anyone better, so he has to stay for another two seasons at least, because it would have cost us about £5 million and big wages to get a ready made 27 year old in now, so we need to find another 22/23 year old and let him develop, with Whitts as his mentor.

If that's the case then why have we struggled to score goals for the past few seasons with Whitts in midfield? I can remember under Slade we used to have something like 30% procession even though we had this supposed brilliant player.

I don't want to knock him too much and he has been a great servant to the club. But I also remember the countless games when he went missing and had no incentive to take games by the scruff of the neck as he still went home with his £20kpw wages.

I want to see the game changing goal scoring PW more often. I don't see how giving him another big money contract without incentives is going to achieve that based on his past record of getting too comfortable and knowing putting in a good corner or free-kick every now and again will do. He is a player who needs incentives and we should recognise that before we waste another shed load of cash.

I disagree. I haven't seen any signs that he is motivated by money alone. If he was he could have easily pushed for moves and take the 10%.
Malky killed him. He placed the whole promotion bid on his shoulders and that was one hell of a burden. Dropping deeper made him into a different type of player, one who realised that mistakes could kill a team who have never been free scoring since DJ.

Fundamentally he is an attacking midfielder. If Gunnarson and Bamba are your stoppers he can easily be one of the 4 offensive players (as DJ used him) thats where i would play him left mid in a 4231

great player for city, great role model for young kids starting to play and still has a lot to offer in the championship

It is common practise to insert incentives into contracts of players over 30's of age. For example Lambert has to play a certain number of games to trigger a second year.

Really don't see what the problem is?????

Playing X amount of games is completely different to paying bonus for assists. Ive never heard anything so ridiculous.

You want to put him on a basic wage of a third of players wages who are not even making the squad and he can only get close to their wages by performing and you dont see the problem? Behave.

I would suggest if you want to make radical changes to players contracts you start with the players who HAVENT performed before we start putting clauses in for those that have.

Market forces dictate wages anyway and Cardiff City would soon find themselves unable to attract players if you offered them the kind of contracts you and Wez want to introduce.

Utter nonsense. Polo your replies definitely fall into the quantity over quality category.

Whatever is in other players contract has no bearing on any contract between CCFC and any other player including Peter Whittingham. If the club offer a contract it is up to the player to decide if he wants to sign or not. If he does then he abides by it's terms and conditions.

Players over 30 bring an extra risk and that is accepted at every club. I fail to understand your logic that the club should just throw money at PW and ask for no guarantees in return. I stand by my opinion PW should be offered a contract based on incentives in the same way we did with Ricky Lambert. Incentives are just that it doesn't matter whether it is appearances, goals or assists it is up to the player to deliver if he wishes to gain extra payment from the T&C's of his contract. Pretty basic stuff.

Utter bollox. Utter utter bollox.

Lambert is one of if not the highest earner at the club do you think he left West Brom for the 5k a week plus bonus you want to pay Whitts

If the club offered that contract to Whitts I'd imagine which his agent would just laugh in their face.

As for wasting "another shed load of cash" I'd suggest you like at the players we sign who never get a game for the real waste not the guy who tops the combined goslsassists charts year on year

Lex Immers let go for free 6 months after arriving, another in a long list of signings that weve just thrown money down the drain on and people complain Peter Whittinghams wages are a waste of money.

Lex Immers let go for free 6 months after arriving, another in a long list of signings that weve just thrown money down the drain on and people complain Peter Whittinghams wages are a waste of money.

Wheres has anyone said his wages are a waste ? People have been commenting on he should be on lower in his new contract just like the rest of the players should be ,we got far too many players on premiership contracts when we are a championship club

Lex Immers let go for free 6 months after arriving, another in a long list of signings that weve just thrown money down the drain on and people complain Peter Whittinghams wages are a waste of money.

Wheres has anyone said his wages are a waste ? People have been commenting on he should be on lower in his new contract just like the rest of the players should be ,we got far too many players on premiership contracts when we are a championship club

Tony has said, several times, and stop talking nonsense Wez. I wouldnt say 20k a week could be classed as a Premiership contract anymore.

Lex Immers let go for free 6 months after arriving, another in a long list of signings that weve just thrown money down the drain on and people complain Peter Whittinghams wages are a waste of money.

Wheres has anyone said his wages are a waste ? People have been commenting on he should be on lower in his new contract just like the rest of the players should be ,we got far too many players on premiership contracts when we are a championship club

Tony has said, several times, and stop talking nonsense Wez. I wouldnt say 20k a week could be classed as a Premiership contract anymore.

It certainly not an average championship contract remember what position we are in 20k a week is too much for Whitts in his new contract

Lex Immers let go for free 6 months after arriving, another in a long list of signings that weve just thrown money down the drain on and people complain Peter Whittinghams wages are a waste of money.

Wheres has anyone said his wages are a waste ? People have been commenting on he should be on lower in his new contract just like the rest of the players should be ,we got far too many players on premiership contracts when we are a championship club

Tony has said, several times, and stop talking nonsense Wez. I wouldnt say 20k a week could be classed as a Premiership contract anymore.

It certainly not an average championship contract remember what position we are in 20k a week is too much for Whitts in his new contract

Yes he may have to come down from 20k although to ask him to take 5k a week plus incentives if he "proves himself" is a f*cking insult!!!!

I wouldnt expect the club to be so insulting to a club legend.

In the twighlight of his career he's not going to get the offers the big players in prem get to play abroad on massive deals - he is going to probably become more a bit part player, and I can see him eventually tailing off with us and going into coaching.

I wouldn't be surprised if this contract is reduced in salary but higher in incentive bonuses - and then getting into his latter years maybe ending up on bonus related appearance pay alongside a coaching salary. He won't love club his family is settled and there isn't another club "locally" that could afford him or want him.

Lex Immers let go for free 6 months after arriving, another in a long list of signings that weve just thrown money down the drain on and people complain Peter Whittinghams wages are a waste of money.

Wheres has anyone said his wages are a waste ? People have been commenting on he should be on lower in his new contract just like the rest of the players should be ,we got far too many players on premiership contracts when we are a championship club

Tony has said, several times, and stop talking nonsense Wez. I wouldnt say 20k a week could be classed as a Premiership contract anymore.

It certainly not an average championship contract remember what position we are in 20k a week is too much for Whitts in his new contract

Yes he may have to come down from 20k although to ask him to take 5k a week plus incentives if he "proves himself" is a f*cking insult!!!!

I wouldnt expect the club to be so insulting to a club legend.

5k is a bit low but I do think 10 k a week plus bonuses is fair

Lex Immers let go for free 6 months after arriving, another in a long list of signings that weve just thrown money down the drain on and people complain Peter Whittinghams wages are a waste of money.

Wheres has anyone said his wages are a waste ? People have been commenting on he should be on lower in his new contract just like the rest of the players should be ,we got far too many players on premiership contracts when we are a championship club

Tony has said, several times, and stop talking nonsense Wez. I wouldnt say 20k a week could be classed as a Premiership contract anymore.

It certainly not an average championship contract remember what position we are in 20k a week is too much for Whitts in his new contract

Yes he may have to come down from 20k although to ask him to take 5k a week plus incentives if he "proves himself" is a f*cking insult!!!!

I wouldnt expect the club to be so insulting to a club legend.

5k is a bit low but I do think 10 k a week plus bonuses is fair

Appearence bonus maybe but to put an "Assist" bonus is absurd IMO.