' Brexit Strategy '

You say I'm deluded you use a local London rag naming people by only their first name, then go onto use a survey/poll......do you forget the surveys and polls got the brexit vote horribly wrong, remember in America how the surveys and polls showed Clinton to win.

How do they prove the people they surveyed did actually vote out? How do they know they are not actually asking a renowned who's just stirring the shit up? They can't.

So how would you like me to show you then? It may be easier if you tell me. Polls of voters and first hand accounts don't seem to be enough, not to mention obvious common sense.

What would common sense have to do with it? Because I questioned your proof I'm someway lacking in common sense? Let's be honest here you can't prove it. These polls have been proven to be miles off the mark.
Your first hand accounts from "Adam" and "Diane" are tosh.

Give it up you lost the vote stop crying accept it and move on or you'll make yourself ill.

So you have asked me for proof, I have showed you polls and forst hand accounts yet that isnn't good enough, and when asked what proof you want, you don't seem to know.

How have I lost a vote? I have never voted for anything in my life. I am completely on the fence and have no preference, I have a relatively well paid and secure job, so things like this don't really affect me either way. However, from the people I have spoken to on the issue there is definately a feeling of regret and when searching there is only evidence to back this up rather than the opposite.

One telling point is that those who voted out would never in a million years allow a re-vote - that is because deep down they know what the outcome would be. So you have to decide what is democracy? Pushing through something that isn't really the view of the country, or sticking with a vote that people didn't understand?

You say I'm deluded you use a local London rag naming people by only their first name, then go onto use a survey/poll......do you forget the surveys and polls got the brexit vote horribly wrong, remember in America how the surveys and polls showed Clinton to win.

How do they prove the people they surveyed did actually vote out? How do they know they are not actually asking a renowned who's just stirring the shit up? They can't.

So how would you like me to show you then? It may be easier if you tell me. Polls of voters and first hand accounts don't seem to be enough, not to mention obvious common sense.

What would common sense have to do with it? Because I questioned your proof I'm someway lacking in common sense? Let's be honest here you can't prove it. These polls have been proven to be miles off the mark.
Your first hand accounts from "Adam" and "Diane" are tosh.

Give it up you lost the vote stop crying accept it and move on or you'll make yourself ill.

So you have asked me for proof, I have showed you polls and forst hand accounts yet that isnn't good enough, and when asked what proof you want, you don't seem to know.

How have I lost a vote? I have never voted for anything in my life. I am completely on the fence and have no preference, I have a relatively well paid and secure job, so things like this don't really affect me either way. However, from the people I have spoken to on the issue there is definately a feeling of regret and when searching there is only evidence to back this up rather than the opposite.

One telling point is that those who voted out would never in a million years allow a re-vote - that is because deep down they know what the outcome would be. So you have to decide what is democracy? Pushing through something that isn't really the view of the country, or sticking with a vote that people didn't understand?

See you say about common sense them claim the result of a referendum isn't the view of the country because you can find 100 people who claim to have changed their minds.. I'm done here.

100? Where did you pluck that number from? 7% of out voters is what I put forward, which seems to also tie in with my experience of talking to both sides of the fence. Not to mention the millions of people who didn't vote as they didnn't kniw enough who have now seen the value of their currency plummet, and the 2% of the population of the United Kingdom who are now old enough to vote due to the length of time it has taken - and with most of the youth votng to stay that would suggest yet more remain voters, so although it was technically a democratic vote at the time, it doesn't really represent the mass feeling of today. As I have pointed out, a re-vote is a brexit voters worst nightmare - ask yourself why.

Last edited by EalingBluebird on Sat Dec 10, 2016 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You say I'm deluded you use a local London rag naming people by only their first name, then go onto use a survey/poll......do you forget the surveys and polls got the brexit vote horribly wrong, remember in America how the surveys and polls showed Clinton to win.

How do they prove the people they surveyed did actually vote out? How do they know they are not actually asking a renowned who's just stirring the shit up? They can't.

So how would you like me to show you then? It may be easier if you tell me. Polls of voters and first hand accounts don't seem to be enough, not to mention obvious common sense.

What would common sense have to do with it? Because I questioned your proof I'm someway lacking in common sense? Let's be honest here you can't prove it. These polls have been proven to be miles off the mark.
Your first hand accounts from "Adam" and "Diane" are tosh.

Give it up you lost the vote stop crying accept it and move on or you'll make yourself ill.

So you have asked me for proof, I have showed you polls and forst hand accounts yet that isnn't good enough, and when asked what proof you want, you don't seem to know.

How have I lost a vote? I have never voted for anything in my life. I am completely on the fence and have no preference, I have a relatively well paid and secure job, so things like this don't really affect me either way. However, from the people I have spoken to on the issue there is definately a feeling of regret and when searching there is only evidence to back this up rather than the opposite.

One telling point is that those who voted out would never in a million years allow a re-vote - that is because deep down they know what the outcome would be. So you have to decide what is democracy? Pushing through something that isn't really the view of the country, or sticking with a vote that people didn't understand?

See you say about common sense them claim the result of a referendum isn't the view of the country because you can find 100 people who claim to have changed their minds.. I'm done here.

So a poll of exit voters said they would change their minds so overturning result? Mmmm what about remainers changing their minds? Oh I know none of then would change their minds? Sounds like a one sided debate !:laughing6:

P's I'm out of here as well

So a poll of exit voters said they would change their minds so overturning result? Mmmm what about remainers changing their minds? Oh I know none of then would change their minds? Sounds like a one sided debate !:laughing6:

There you go then. With so many changing their mind, it is clear that the vote was compromised by lack of information either way. Surely a re-vote now everybody seems to understand the implications would represent a more accurate democratic vote? Do you honestly believe that result would be an out vote still? I doubt many do if they are being honest, which means democracy isn't really at play here.

100? Where did you pluck that number from? 7% of out voters is what I put forward, which seems to also tie in with my experience of talking to both sides of the fence. Not to mention the millions of people who didn't vote as they didnn't kniw enough who have now seen the value of their currency plummet, and the 2% of the population of the United Kingdom who are now old enough to vote due to the length of time it has taken - and with most of the youth votng to stay that would suggest yet more remain voters, so although it was technically a democratic vote at the time, it doesn't really represent the mass feeling of today. As I have pointed out, a re-vote is a brexit voters worst nightmare - ask yourself why.

You really are scraping the barrel now including those who weren't old enough at the time lol can we wait 5 years then my boy will be bold enough too youcan count him as an out voter in all your polls etc .

As far as we can tell, there is no coherent strategy or plan. The closest we've got: a 'red white and blue Brexit.' If anyone knows what that means, feel free to explain.

Leave's share of the vote was 52%, and, let's be honest, that was on the basis of no clear plan or strategy. Whether you think that was wise is up to you.

There's division at the top of Government, not least between the PM and the Foreign Secretary, over fundamental issues like Middle East strategy.

The Brexit referendum happened on the basis of an In/Out question, which left all the detail wide open. It was offering a simple choice on a very complicated matter.

My tuppence worth of opinion is that no-one knows what's best from here on, or how to approach it. Most of it will be guesswork, and raw politics, and neither side is going to be happy.

100? Where did you pluck that number from? 7% of out voters is what I put forward, which seems to also tie in with my experience of talking to both sides of the fence. Not to mention the millions of people who didn't vote as they didnn't kniw enough who have now seen the value of their currency plummet, and the 2% of the population of the United Kingdom who are now old enough to vote due to the length of time it has taken - and with most of the youth votng to stay that would suggest yet more remain voters, so although it was technically a democratic vote at the time, it doesn't really represent the mass feeling of today. As I have pointed out, a re-vote is a brexit voters worst nightmare - ask yourself why.

You really are scraping the barrel now including those who weren't old enough at the time lol can we wait 5 years then my boy will be bold enough too youcan count him as an out voter in all your polls etc .

I think that is pure and utter common sense. To be scraping the barrel I would have to be lobbying for one side or the other, however I did not vote, never have, and probably never will - I don't have a side to lobby. Apart from the common sense side which people seem to dislike if it goes against their particular agenda.

If in 5 years time we still havent done what was voted 5 years previous then absolutely your boy could have a case that he should have a say on the future of his country so the actions represent the wishes of the country at that particular time - even more so if his view seems to be represented by the majority and it is clear that both sides were misrepresented at the time.

Last edited by EalingBluebird on Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So a poll of exit voters said they would change their minds so overturning result? Mmmm what about remainers changing their minds? Oh I know none of then would change their minds? Sounds like a one sided debate !:laughing6:

There you go then. With so many changing their mind, it is clear that the vote was compromised by lack of information either way. Surely a re-vote now everybody seems to understand the implications would represent a more accurate democratic vote? Do you honestly believe that result would be an out vote still? I doubt many do if they are being honest, which means democracy isn't really at play here.

You really have me and probably many others baffled. I thought democracy was all about people voting, with the outcome decided by who gains the most votes. I think you will find that sometime during a governmen'ts reign, many people will change their minds, as is often shown in by-elections. We are still a democracy though. You sound like a person who does not believe in democracy unless the result coincides with the way you voted. My wife voted remain, if we were to vote again she would now vote out because she disagrees with having to hold further referendums until a certain group get their own way. I imagine she is not alone in her views.

So a poll of exit voters said they would change their minds so overturning result? Mmmm what about remainers changing their minds? Oh I know none of then would change their minds? Sounds like a one sided debate !:laughing6:

There you go then. With so many changing their mind, it is clear that the vote was compromised by lack of information either way. Surely a re-vote now everybody seems to understand the implications would represent a more accurate democratic vote? Do you honestly believe that result would be an out vote still? I doubt many do if they are being honest, which means democracy isn't really at play here.

You really have me and probably many others baffled. I thought democracy was all about people voting, with the outcome decided by who gains the most votes. I think you will find that sometime during a governmen'ts reign, many people will change their minds, as is often shown in by-elections. We are still a democracy though. You sound like a person who does not believe in democracy unless the result coincides with the way you voted. My wife voted remain, if we were to vote again she would now vote out because she disagrees with having to hold further referendums until a certain group get their own way. I imagine she is not alone in her views.

Spot on. But democracy is a vote to determine the desire of the country. Due to the nature of this particular vote, one in which very few people knew in any sort of depth what they were actually voting for or against to the point where millions didnt even vote, and so many (allegedly from both sides according to a few on here) now changing their minds since it had now become apparent, then surely everybody would be happy with a re-vote if democracy really was the goal of everyone? Then there can be no dispute either way, everyone knows the score now. But again, the ones that voted out would be so against this as they know the vote would be different - so we have a strange dilemma of a case where a democratic vote currently probably isn't representing democracy.

Good news for those of us who still want to be Welsh and European and certainly NOT British.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... ebook-post

People want a re vote? Jesus christ. I have no time for remainers who want to overturn the vote and I have no time for leavers who think we shouldn't enact article 50 but instead leave straight away. I voted for Brexit, I didn't vote Brexit at all costs. I'd like May to wait until June 2017 before enacting article 50, September at the latest. We are leaving the EU, most politicians dare not go against 52% of the electorate.

By waiting as long as possible to enact article 50 it gives us the best chance to negotiate the best deal for our country. If we just leave we are going to be up the creek without a paddle very quickly.

Everyone's guna f*cking complain anyway. f**k all is guna change.

A well thought out and eloquent post, fantastic contribution.

People want a re vote? Jesus christ. I have no time for remainers who want to overturn the vote and I have no time for leavers who think we shouldn't enact article 50 but instead leave straight away. I voted for Brexit, I didn't vote Brexit at all costs. I'd like May to wait until June 2017 before enacting article 50, September at the latest. We are leaving the EU, most politicians dare not go against 52% of the electorate.

By waiting as long as possible to enact article 50 it gives us the best chance to negotiate the best deal for our country. If we just leave we are going to be up the creek without a paddle very quickly.

Surely the only way they could overturn the result is if a re-vote goes in their favour - In which case surely democracy wins? If people genuinelly felt that democracy won initially then a re-vote is absolutely no issue at all. The people that are dead against it are the ones that know that due to the lack of information at the time, in all probability due to non voters etc, the minority won out. The will of the UK people post Brexit doesnt relect the will of the people pre Brexit.

But that is the point isn't it. It may reinforce those that voted out to feel even stronger about it, but they still only get 1 vote. Undoubtedly there are many that voted out that didnt realise the implications and now regret it - which is the important point. I dont really see a case for those who voted in that would now vote out. There would undoubtedly be a different result if another referendum was announced.

Italy (Europe's 4th biggest economy) is on the verge of financial meltdown and you claim that is no reason for those who voted for remain to change their minds? The EU is imploding and the quicker we get away from it the better.

People want a re vote? Jesus christ. I have no time for remainers who want to overturn the vote and I have no time for leavers who think we shouldn't enact article 50 but instead leave straight away. I voted for Brexit, I didn't vote Brexit at all costs. I'd like May to wait until June 2017 before enacting article 50, September at the latest. We are leaving the EU, most politicians dare not go against 52% of the electorate.

By waiting as long as possible to enact article 50 it gives us the best chance to negotiate the best deal for our country. If we just leave we are going to be up the creek without a paddle very quickly.

What about the cost of leaving the enacting of Article 50 for too long? We miss out on getting trade deals with the 50 odd countries (including the USA) who have expressed a desire to trade freely with us.

Italy's financial situation is looking more grim by the day and we could get sucked in if that country went broke. The EU project is busted and is falling apart. The clever move is to get out as soon as possible.

The EU can chest thump all they want but the sad fact for them is we are far more important to them than they are to us.

But that is the point isn't it. It may reinforce those that voted out to feel even stronger about it, but they still only get 1 vote. Undoubtedly there are many that voted out that didnt realise the implications and now regret it - which is the important point. I dont really see a case for those who voted in that would now vote out. There would undoubtedly be a different result if another referendum was announced.

Italy (Europe's 4th biggest economy) is on the verge of financial meltdown and you claim that is no reason for those who voted for remain to change their minds? The EU is imploding and the quicker we get away from it the better.

You may be right, but if you are, then even more reason for a re-vote. Surely everybody can agree that at the time of the vote uncertainty ruked the roost. Now everyone can make somewhat of an informed opinion, whether that be sticking to their guns or changing their mind - more of the UK would certainly vote now and the true picture of the UK feeling can be known. The only reason to not want that is fear that it may not go your way, in which case democracy takes a back seat.

But that is the point isn't it. It may reinforce those that voted out to feel even stronger about it, but they still only get 1 vote. Undoubtedly there are many that voted out that didnt realise the implications and now regret it - which is the important point. I dont really see a case for those who voted in that would now vote out. There would undoubtedly be a different result if another referendum was announced.

Italy (Europe's 4th biggest economy) is on the verge of financial meltdown and you claim that is no reason for those who voted for remain to change their minds? The EU is imploding and the quicker we get away from it the better.

You may be right, but if you are, then even more reason for a re-vote. Surely everybody can agree that at the time of the vote uncertainty ruked the roost. Now everyone can make somewhat of an informed opinion, whether that be sticking to their guns or changing their mind - more of the UK would certainly vote now and the true picture of the UK feeling can be known. The only reason to not want that is fear that it may not go your way, in which case democracy takes a back seat.

And if the situation changes again after a second referendum should we hold a third?

But that is the point isn't it. It may reinforce those that voted out to feel even stronger about it, but they still only get 1 vote. Undoubtedly there are many that voted out that didnt realise the implications and now regret it - which is the important point. I dont really see a case for those who voted in that would now vote out. There would undoubtedly be a different result if another referendum was announced.

Italy (Europe's 4th biggest economy) is on the verge of financial meltdown and you claim that is no reason for those who voted for remain to change their minds? The EU is imploding and the quicker we get away from it the better.

You may be right, but if you are, then even more reason for a re-vote. Surely everybody can agree that at the time of the vote uncertainty ruked the roost. Now everyone can make somewhat of an informed opinion, whether that be sticking to their guns or changing their mind - more of the UK would certainly vote now and the true picture of the UK feeling can be known. The only reason to not want that is fear that it may not go your way, in which case democracy takes a back seat.

OK you get what you want a second referendum. Say remain wins that one 52% to 48% is that the end of the matter or should it be a best of 3 because leavers would use the same excuse that voters were ill informed?

Frankly mate your logic is nonsense and is basically the same crap Tim Farron was spouting on Question Time that the British public were not 'intelligent' enough to vote the right way as they don't understand the issues so there should be a second referendum where remain can try again to frighten them into changing their vote.

Sorry it is the Tim Farron's of this world who don't understand. The social pressures free movement of people puts on schools, hospitals, jobs and housing is causing the working class great pain. We voted the way we did because no-one was listening so we decided to change this by using our democratic right. Trouble is ever since the vote people like you and Tim Farron have done everything you can to deny us that democratic right.

Man up you lost end of story.

But that is the point isn't it. It may reinforce those that voted out to feel even stronger about it, but they still only get 1 vote. Undoubtedly there are many that voted out that didnt realise the implications and now regret it - which is the important point. I dont really see a case for those who voted in that would now vote out. There would undoubtedly be a different result if another referendum was announced.

Italy (Europe's 4th biggest economy) is on the verge of financial meltdown and you claim that is no reason for those who voted for remain to change their minds? The EU is imploding and the quicker we get away from it the better.

You may be right, but if you are, then even more reason for a re-vote. Surely everybody can agree that at the time of the vote uncertainty ruked the roost. Now everyone can make somewhat of an informed opinion, whether that be sticking to their guns or changing their mind - more of the UK would certainly vote now and the true picture of the UK feeling can be known. The only reason to not want that is fear that it may not go your way, in which case democracy takes a back seat.

And if the situation changes again after a second referendum should we hold a third?

I think a second referendum is sufficient as I don't think levels of understanding would be significantly different between a 2nd and 3rd the way it currently from a 1st to a 2nd (depending how much time lapses of course). The levels of understanding now to what they were at the time of the vote is like chalk and cheese, hence the mind changers and non voters. People voted on the NHS getting that lump payment (which was retracted the day after the result), people voted on immigration issues (even though it looks likely immigration won't change). Etc etc I don't think true democracy is able to be achieved when people do not know what they are voting for and in a situation where millions of people don't vote for the same reasons.

I think a second referendum is sufficient as I don't think levels of understanding would be significantly different between a 2nd and 3rd the way it currently from a 1st to a 2nd (depending how much time lapses of course). The levels of understanding now to what they were at the time of the vote is like chalk and cheese, hence the mind changers and non voters. People voted on the NHS getting that lump payment (which was retracted the day after the result), people voted on immigration issues (even though it looks likely immigration won't change). Etc etc I don't think true democracy is able to be achieved when people do not know what they are voting for and in a situation where millions of people don't vote for the same reasons.

What evidence do you have that 2million people have changed their minds? Nearly everyone I know voted out and I haven't come across anyone who has admitted to changing their minds.

At the time I thought the bus slogan was stupid and still do, but it had no affect on the way I voted. Also don't forget the nonsense the remain side came out with, the punishment budget, World War 3 and the loss of foreign investment (Nissan are not going anywhere for starters).

The fact is your 'informed decisions' will be made on the back of more project fear which failed so badly first time around. If the economy was going the way of Italy since June then you might have a point. But all economic factors employment, inflation, stock market etc. are performing BETTER since June when according to project fear they should be falling off a cliff by now.

There is no credible reason for a second referendum except in the minds of the deluded remainers who just can't accept they lost.

I think a second referendum is sufficient as I don't think levels of understanding would be significantly different between a 2nd and 3rd the way it currently from a 1st to a 2nd (depending how much time lapses of course). The levels of understanding now to what they were at the time of the vote is like chalk and cheese, hence the mind changers and non voters. People voted on the NHS getting that lump payment (which was retracted the day after the result), people voted on immigration issues (even though it looks likely immigration won't change). Etc etc I don't think true democracy is able to be achieved when people do not know what they are voting for and in a situation where millions of people don't vote for the same reasons.

What evidence do you have that 2million people have changed their minds? Nearly everyone I know voted out and I haven't come across anyone who has admitted to changing their minds.

At the time I thought the bus slogan was stupid and still do, but it had no affect on the way I voted. Also don't forget the nonsense the remain side came out with, the punishment budget, World War 3 and the loss of foreign investment (Nissan are not going anywhere for starters).

The fact is your 'informed decisions' will be made on the back of more project fear which failed so badly first time around. If the economy was going the way of Italy since June then you might have a point. But all economic factors employment, inflation, stock market etc. are performing BETTER since June when according to project fear they should be falling off a cliff by now.

There is no credible reason for a second referendum except in the minds of the deluded remainers who just can't accept they lost.

And I am sure you are right that many, many people who voted to leave are entirely happy with their vote. In fact I have no doubt on that. In which case any 2nd referendum surely would be no problem at all and give a similar result? The issue we are debating is although there are many happy with their vote, there are also many that are not, and even worse - those that did not even participate due to the lack of information and are now condemned to a decision they may not agree with now the information is clear. It is not a game of winning and losing, its a decision that will better the country in view of the populations informed wishes. Informed wishes are something that severely was lacking first time round.

If democracy is what everybody wants, then democracy is best served on a basis where the electorate know what they are voting for, or against. Should the result be the same then excellent, we have made an informed decision. However I am 99.9999% sure any re-vote would result in a landslide remain and the Brexiters that I have spoke to share that opinion by proxy as they are so fearful of any kind of re-vote.

I think a second referendum is sufficient as I don't think levels of understanding would be significantly different between a 2nd and 3rd the way it currently from a 1st to a 2nd (depending how much time lapses of course). The levels of understanding now to what they were at the time of the vote is like chalk and cheese, hence the mind changers and non voters. People voted on the NHS getting that lump payment (which was retracted the day after the result), people voted on immigration issues (even though it looks likely immigration won't change). Etc etc I don't think true democracy is able to be achieved when people do not know what they are voting for and in a situation where millions of people don't vote for the same reasons.

What evidence do you have that 2million people have changed their minds? Nearly everyone I know voted out and I haven't come across anyone who has admitted to changing their minds.

At the time I thought the bus slogan was stupid and still do, but it had no affect on the way I voted. Also don't forget the nonsense the remain side came out with, the punishment budget, World War 3 and the loss of foreign investment (Nissan are not going anywhere for starters).

The fact is your 'informed decisions' will be made on the back of more project fear which failed so badly first time around. If the economy was going the way of Italy since June then you might have a point. But all economic factors employment, inflation, stock market etc. are performing BETTER since June when according to project fear they should be falling off a cliff by now.

There is no credible reason for a second referendum except in the minds of the deluded remainers who just can't accept they lost.

And I am sure you are right that many, many people who voted to leave are entirely happy with their vote. In fact I have no doubt on that. In which case any 2nd referendum surely would be no problem at all and give a similar result? The issue we are debating is although there are many happy with their vote, there are also many that are not, and even worse - those that did not even participate due to the lack of information and are now condemned to a decision they may not agree with now the information is clear. It is not a game of winning and losing, its a decision that will better the country in view of the populations informed wishes. Informed wishes are something that severely was lacking first time round.

If democracy is what everybody wants, then democracy is best served on a basis where the electorate know what they are voting for, or against. Should the result be the same then excellent, we have made an informed decision. However I am 99.9999% sure any re-vote would result in a landslide remain and the Brexiters that I have spoke to share that opinion by proxy as they are so fearful of any kind of re-vote.

Give it up mate, now after we shot down your "many who voted out have changed their mind" your now saying the people who didn't vote now are unhappy with the result.

You keep spouting people didn't know what they were voting for, do you realise how offensive that us to 17.5 million people, sorry 17.5 dull thickos who voted purely based on racism.

I think a second referendum is sufficient as I don't think levels of understanding would be significantly different between a 2nd and 3rd the way it currently from a 1st to a 2nd (depending how much time lapses of course). The levels of understanding now to what they were at the time of the vote is like chalk and cheese, hence the mind changers and non voters. People voted on the NHS getting that lump payment (which was retracted the day after the result), people voted on immigration issues (even though it looks likely immigration won't change). Etc etc I don't think true democracy is able to be achieved when people do not know what they are voting for and in a situation where millions of people don't vote for the same reasons.

What evidence do you have that 2million people have changed their minds? Nearly everyone I know voted out and I haven't come across anyone who has admitted to changing their minds.

At the time I thought the bus slogan was stupid and still do, but it had no affect on the way I voted. Also don't forget the nonsense the remain side came out with, the punishment budget, World War 3 and the loss of foreign investment (Nissan are not going anywhere for starters).

The fact is your 'informed decisions' will be made on the back of more project fear which failed so badly first time around. If the economy was going the way of Italy since June then you might have a point. But all economic factors employment, inflation, stock market etc. are performing BETTER since June when according to project fear they should be falling off a cliff by now.

There is no credible reason for a second referendum except in the minds of the deluded remainers who just can't accept they lost.

And I am sure you are right that many, many people who voted to leave are entirely happy with their vote. In fact I have no doubt on that. In which case any 2nd referendum surely would be no problem at all and give a similar result? The issue we are debating is although there are many happy with their vote, there are also many that are not, and even worse - those that did not even participate due to the lack of information and are now condemned to a decision they may not agree with now the information is clear. It is not a game of winning and losing, its a decision that will better the country in view of the populations informed wishes. Informed wishes are something that severely was lacking first time round.

If democracy is what everybody wants, then democracy is best served on a basis where the electorate know what they are voting for, or against. Should the result be the same then excellent, we have made an informed decision. However I am 99.9999% sure any re-vote would result in a landslide remain and the Brexiters that I have spoke to share that opinion by proxy as they are so fearful of any kind of re-vote.

Give it up mate, now after we shot down your "many who voted out have changed their mind" your now saying the people who didn't vote now are unhappy with the result.

You keep spouting people didn't know what they were voting for, do you realise how offensive that us to 17.5 million people, sorry 17.5 dull thickos who voted purely based on racism.

Nothing has been shot down at all, I think it is completely obvious people are unhappy with their vote. I think it is also complete common sense to suggest that of the 28% of the UK that did not vote due to not having enough information - will now have formed an opinion either way.

Some knew what they were voting for, sure. Many did not. Many now feel misled as the reasons they voted for were not even applicable to the situation. All of that boils down to a lack of information, and no fair democracy can be based on such a foundation. Again common sense says that. Common sense also says that there should be nobody in the UK against a re-vote if democracy is their values.

As it stands if you scale down the electorate by a million per 1 person. It is the equivelant of 17 people in a room of 48 deciding the fate for them all, where undoubtedly even some of those 17 now regret it. I don't think that is what democracy was intended to achieve.

By the way, i have not labelled anybody thick or racist. I have merely pointed out that there was a lack of information available at the time so many people voting did not have a full picture of what they were voting for. I have also said immigration was the driving force for many people to vote out (I am of the opinion you can be against immigration and still not be racist by the way) and yet it looks like free movement may well remain as part of the deal. So when the main things people are voting for are taken away, I think it is safe to say their view on the situation may well change.

And as I keep saying, surely a re-vote makes no difference to anyone? The only way it can affect you personally is if your personal opinion gets overturned, in which case as a fan of democracy you should be happy with it. Surely it is far better to have a referendum now everybody knows the score rather than the unknown, media driven mysery of the intial vote? People have seen for themselves and experienced a little bit of Brexit without it actually happening. People are now aware the NHS will not recieve a lump sum, people are aware that immigration probably wont change a great deal and people are aware of issues on the other side like a European army. A more informed vote surely can only be a good thing and welcomed by all?

People want a re vote? Jesus christ. I have no time for remainers who want to overturn the vote and I have no time for leavers who think we shouldn't enact article 50 but instead leave straight away. I voted for Brexit, I didn't vote Brexit at all costs. I'd like May to wait until June 2017 before enacting article 50, September at the latest. We are leaving the EU, most politicians dare not go against 52% of the electorate.

By waiting as long as possible to enact article 50 it gives us the best chance to negotiate the best deal for our country. If we just leave we are going to be up the creek without a paddle very quickly.

Surely the only way they could overturn the result is if a re-vote goes in their favour - In which case surely democracy wins? If people genuinelly felt that democracy won initially then a re-vote is absolutely no issue at all. The people that are dead against it are the ones that know that due to the lack of information at the time, in all probability due to non voters etc, the minority won out. The will of the UK people post Brexit doesnt relect the will of the people pre Brexit.

Oh come off it. How many times do we re do the vote then? Best out of 7? 9? The wording in the leaflet that the government delivered to every house in the UK at great cost was "The Government will implement what you decide" and that is what they must do. Democracy has already won, we had a referendum and leave won, we are Brexiting end of. Whether you think people will vote differently this time is neither here nor there, the vote has taken place.

I don't give a toss about people who have changed their minds, they had their vote and should have done their homework. Your going on about lack of information but in the three months leading up the vote we had wall to wall coverage over here, you would have to be incredibly thick to not know what you were voting for or that there was a vote on leaving the EU at all. I given even less of a f**k for people who couldn't be arsed to vote. You can't include the people who didn't vote as remainers. If you didn't vote then that means you didn't care enough and must go with the decision of the people who did vote.

People want a re vote? Jesus christ. I have no time for remainers who want to overturn the vote and I have no time for leavers who think we shouldn't enact article 50 but instead leave straight away. I voted for Brexit, I didn't vote Brexit at all costs. I'd like May to wait until June 2017 before enacting article 50, September at the latest. We are leaving the EU, most politicians dare not go against 52% of the electorate.

By waiting as long as possible to enact article 50 it gives us the best chance to negotiate the best deal for our country. If we just leave we are going to be up the creek without a paddle very quickly.

Surely the only way they could overturn the result is if a re-vote goes in their favour - In which case surely democracy wins? If people genuinelly felt that democracy won initially then a re-vote is absolutely no issue at all. The people that are dead against it are the ones that know that due to the lack of information at the time, in all probability due to non voters etc, the minority won out. The will of the UK people post Brexit doesnt relect the will of the people pre Brexit.

Oh come off it. How many times do we re do the vote then? Best out of 7? 9? The wording in the leaflet that the government delivered to every house in the UK at great cost was "The Government will implement what you decide" and that is what they must do. Democracy has already won, we had a referendum and leave won, we are Brexiting end of. Whether you think people will vote differently this time is neither here nor there, the vote has taken place.

I don't give a toss about people who have changed their minds, they had their vote and should have done their homework. Your going on about lack of information but in the three months leading up the vote we had wall to wall coverage over here, you would have to be incredibly thick to not know what you were voting for or that there was a vote on leaving the EU at all. I given even less of a f**k for people who couldn't be arsed to vote. You can't include the people who didn't vote as remainers. If you didn't vote then that means you didn't care enough and must go with the decision of the people who did vote.

Just once. It is not a normal situation.

Democracy is an action that represents the true informed opinion of the electorate. It isn't a case of "you lost, we won, regardless of the fact a load of people had no idea what was going on na na na na na". The notion that people would vote defferently now it is clear what everyone was voting for, is the opposite of "neither here nor there" and is entirely relevant. Otherwise we are faced with a situation where an action is being carried out against the current will of its public.

I don't think 17 should ever have a deciding rule over 48, especially on the grounds of the misinformation around at the time of it.

Answer me completely honestly - what do you believe the result would be if there was a 2nd referendum tomorrow and everyone voted. No time for any media driven nonsense, just people voting on the realities of what is put in front of us. Be as honest as you can.

I think a second referendum is sufficient as I don't think levels of understanding would be significantly different between a 2nd and 3rd the way it currently from a 1st to a 2nd (depending how much time lapses of course). The levels of understanding now to what they were at the time of the vote is like chalk and cheese, hence the mind changers and non voters. People voted on the NHS getting that lump payment (which was retracted the day after the result), people voted on immigration issues (even though it looks likely immigration won't change). Etc etc I don't think true democracy is able to be achieved when people do not know what they are voting for and in a situation where millions of people don't vote for the same reasons.

What evidence do you have that 2million people have changed their minds? Nearly everyone I know voted out and I haven't come across anyone who has admitted to changing their minds.

At the time I thought the bus slogan was stupid and still do, but it had no affect on the way I voted. Also don't forget the nonsense the remain side came out with, the punishment budget, World War 3 and the loss of foreign investment (Nissan are not going anywhere for starters).

The fact is your 'informed decisions' will be made on the back of more project fear which failed so badly first time around. If the economy was going the way of Italy since June then you might have a point. But all economic factors employment, inflation, stock market etc. are performing BETTER since June when according to project fear they should be falling off a cliff by now.

There is no credible reason for a second referendum except in the minds of the deluded remainers who just can't accept they lost.

And I am sure you are right that many, many people who voted to leave are entirely happy with their vote. In fact I have no doubt on that. In which case any 2nd referendum surely would be no problem at all and give a similar result? The issue we are debating is although there are many happy with their vote, there are also many that are not, and even worse - those that did not even participate due to the lack of information and are now condemned to a decision they may not agree with now the information is clear. It is not a game of winning and losing, its a decision that will better the country in view of the populations informed wishes. Informed wishes are something that severely was lacking first time round.

If democracy is what everybody wants, then democracy is best served on a basis where the electorate know what they are voting for, or against. Should the result be the same then excellent, we have made an informed decision. However I am 99.9999% sure any re-vote would result in a landslide remain and the Brexiters that I have spoke to share that opinion by proxy as they are so fearful of any kind of re-vote.

Give it up mate, now after we shot down your "many who voted out have changed their mind" your now saying the people who didn't vote now are unhappy with the result.

You keep spouting people didn't know what they were voting for, do you realise how offensive that us to 17.5 million people, sorry 17.5 dull thickos who voted purely based on racism.

Nothing has been shot down at all, I think it is completely obvious people are unhappy with their vote. I think it is also complete common sense to suggest that of the 28% of the UK that did not vote due to not having enough information - will now have formed an opinion either way.

Some knew what they were voting for, sure. Many did not. Many now feel misled as the reasons they voted for were not even applicable to the situation. All of that boils down to a lack of information, and no fair democracy can be based on such a foundation. Again common sense says that. Common sense also says that there should be nobody in the UK against a re-vote if democracy is their values.

As it stands if you scale down the electorate by a million per 1 person. It is the equivelant of 17 people in a room of 48 deciding the fate for them all, where undoubtedly even some of those 17 now regret it. I don't think that is what democracy was intended to achieve.

Really? Now your shooting down the biggest turn outfor a vote since 1992 as not being representative of the nation. Your on a different planet mate really. And again you say it's "obvious" people are unhappy with their vote, your talking waffle.

People who voted to leave were almost entirely motivated by the fear of immigrants and refugees. I voted to remain and I stick by that, the amount of people I have met who voted to leave but would now vote to remain due to the shocking rise of racism since the vote is astounding. Proud of the fact that Plaid MPs are fighting so hard against Brexit and we must continue the fight. We cannot let fascism take a grip on us, the EU unites where the Tories and UKIP divide us.

I think a second referendum is sufficient as I don't think levels of understanding would be significantly different between a 2nd and 3rd the way it currently from a 1st to a 2nd (depending how much time lapses of course). The levels of understanding now to what they were at the time of the vote is like chalk and cheese, hence the mind changers and non voters. People voted on the NHS getting that lump payment (which was retracted the day after the result), people voted on immigration issues (even though it looks likely immigration won't change). Etc etc I don't think true democracy is able to be achieved when people do not know what they are voting for and in a situation where millions of people don't vote for the same reasons.

What evidence do you have that 2million people have changed their minds? Nearly everyone I know voted out and I haven't come across anyone who has admitted to changing their minds.

At the time I thought the bus slogan was stupid and still do, but it had no affect on the way I voted. Also don't forget the nonsense the remain side came out with, the punishment budget, World War 3 and the loss of foreign investment (Nissan are not going anywhere for starters).

The fact is your 'informed decisions' will be made on the back of more project fear which failed so badly first time around. If the economy was going the way of Italy since June then you might have a point. But all economic factors employment, inflation, stock market etc. are performing BETTER since June when according to project fear they should be falling off a cliff by now.

There is no credible reason for a second referendum except in the minds of the deluded remainers who just can't accept they lost.

And I am sure you are right that many, many people who voted to leave are entirely happy with their vote. In fact I have no doubt on that. In which case any 2nd referendum surely would be no problem at all and give a similar result? The issue we are debating is although there are many happy with their vote, there are also many that are not, and even worse - those that did not even participate due to the lack of information and are now condemned to a decision they may not agree with now the information is clear. It is not a game of winning and losing, its a decision that will better the country in view of the populations informed wishes. Informed wishes are something that severely was lacking first time round.

If democracy is what everybody wants, then democracy is best served on a basis where the electorate know what they are voting for, or against. Should the result be the same then excellent, we have made an informed decision. However I am 99.9999% sure any re-vote would result in a landslide remain and the Brexiters that I have spoke to share that opinion by proxy as they are so fearful of any kind of re-vote.

Give it up mate, now after we shot down your "many who voted out have changed their mind" your now saying the people who didn't vote now are unhappy with the result.

You keep spouting people didn't know what they were voting for, do you realise how offensive that us to 17.5 million people, sorry 17.5 dull thickos who voted purely based on racism.

Nothing has been shot down at all, I think it is completely obvious people are unhappy with their vote. I think it is also complete common sense to suggest that of the 28% of the UK that did not vote due to not having enough information - will now have formed an opinion either way.

Some knew what they were voting for, sure. Many did not. Many now feel misled as the reasons they voted for were not even applicable to the situation. All of that boils down to a lack of information, and no fair democracy can be based on such a foundation. Again common sense says that. Common sense also says that there should be nobody in the UK against a re-vote if democracy is their values.

As it stands if you scale down the electorate by a million per 1 person. It is the equivelant of 17 people in a room of 48 deciding the fate for them all, where undoubtedly even some of those 17 now regret it. I don't think that is what democracy was intended to achieve.

Really? Now your shooting down the biggest turn outfor a vote since 1992 as not being representative of the nation. Your on a different planet mate really. And again you say it's "obvious" people are unhappy with their vote, your talking waffle.

Absolutely am. I don't think any vote in history was based on so much misinformation. If the out vote was a landslide winner so that it dwarfed the non voters to make them irrelevant then we wouldn't be having this conversation. However the fact is 17 million people have made a decision that the other 31 million did not vote for. Many of those 17 million have no changed their mind.

I see you conveniently ignored my question on whether you think there would be a different outcome if the vote was held again tomorrow.