Coleman Tactically Inept or lost to a far better team?

I think a bit of both. We were beaten by a better team, however England were allowed to play and never put under pressure. We sat back, and that much pressure was always going to tell in the end.

I think a bit of both. We were beaten by a better team, however England were allowed to play and never put under pressure. We sat back, and that much pressure was always going to tell in the end.

Agree.

I think a bit of both. We were beaten by a better team, however England were allowed to play and never put under pressure. We sat back, and that much pressure was always going to tell in the end.

Equally if we went attacked instead, we would have been ripped to shreds.

We are a counter attacking side, of very limited technical ability. Our strength is our work rate, team cohesion and rigid formation. Our fans really do need to understand that. We WILLINGLY surrender posession in non dangerous areas of the field, we are not forced to do that, we want to - it is the plan. I am stunned that there are people who actually believe if we go toe to toe with teams such as England, we should be coming out on top. Its utterly bizarre.

We have TWO Reading players in our starting 11 for heavens sake, not to mention players from the likes of MK Dons and Wolves regularly getting game time. To be winning at half time and drawing 1-1 after 91 mins is a credit and testament to that style of play, the manager and the tram as a whole. Amazing.

I think a bit of both. We were beaten by a better team, however England were allowed to play and never put under pressure. We sat back, and that much pressure was always going to tell in the end.

Equally if we went attacked instead, we would have been ripped to shreds.

We are a counter attacking side, of very limited technical ability. Our strength is our work rate, team cohesion and rigid formation. Our fans really do need to understand that. We WILLINGLY surrender posession in non dangerous areas of the field, we are not forced to do that, we want to - it is the plan. I am stunned that there are people who actually believe if we go toe to toe with teams such as England, we should be coming out on top. Its utterly bizarre.

We have TWO Reading players in our starting 11 for heavens sake, not to mention players from the likes of MK Dons and Wolves regularly getting game time. To be winning at half time and drawing 1-1 after 91 mins is a credit and testament to that style of play, the manager and the tram as a whole. Amazing.

I agree with this, though the thread does make some interesting points. I'm not blaming Ashley Williams for our loss, but I am stating categorically that he headed the ball to Vardy for his tap in that at a distance looked offside but wasn't as one of our own players gave him the ball!

I know he does a huge amount and I am grateful as a Wales supporter for that, but boy he had a mare in the first minute and he does seem to have an unhappy knack of making some awful mistakes at times.

Anyhow, the boys were magnificent in their effort and commitment, and although it may appear I argue against myself, I wouldn't swap one of them for any English player thanks - they are ours, let us treasure them. England football team will fail yet again at this tournament leaving their whole country in meltdown and wondering yet again why it has happened. I'll tell you why it happens - you ain't good enough chief, end of!!

Coleman is a Jack - he has done well with our team, and it hurts me to say it but he has. Good luck to him and the team for the Russia game.

I think a bit of both. We were beaten by a better team, however England were allowed to play and never put under pressure. We sat back, and that much pressure was always going to tell in the end.

Equally if we went attacked instead, we would have been ripped to shreds.

We are a counter attacking side, of very limited technical ability. Our strength is our work rate, team cohesion and rigid formation. Our fans really do need to understand that. We WILLINGLY surrender posession in non dangerous areas of the field, we are not forced to do that, we want to - it is the plan. I am stunned that there are people who actually believe if we go toe to toe with teams such as England, we should be coming out on top. Its utterly bizarre.

We have TWO Reading players in our starting 11 for heavens sake, not to mention players from the likes of MK Dons and Wolves regularly getting game time. To be winning at half time and drawing 1-1 after 91 mins is a credit and testament to that style of play, the manager and the tram as a whole. Amazing.

Very true, however England played us at our own game yesterday, straight from the kick off, they were in our faces, & whenever we did get the ball, they were on us like a rash, forcing us into mistakes, & poor passes all game. We weren't allowed to hold on to possession for very long, therefore our counter attacks were virtually non existent.
For me it was like watching a Quality Premiership team playing a bottom three Premiership team, on another day we could have earned a point, but no amount of passion & commitment will ever be enough to overcome sheer quality & brilliance, when you need it most.

Better team won with better players that's the hard facts, we created hardly nothing bar a goal from bale from a set piece, sat back the whole game more or less and that hardly wins you games 9 times out of 10, a bit unlucky to lose at the end but that's what happens now and then when you put 11men behind the ball just outside your own area for most of a game. Sadly we didn't have enough quality compared to the England squad

Yes we lost to a better team, if you looked at what England had on the bench they would of all been in Wales starting 11 for sure! But I don't think the tactics helped us, it was said before the game England will prob go 433 with them focusing on double up on our outside CBs.

They put up a good effort, but the poor formation which should of been changed left us unable to get out of our box, no options to clear the ball to.

I think a bit of both. We were beaten by a better team, however England were allowed to play and never put under pressure. We sat back, and that much pressure was always going to tell in the end.

Equally if we went attacked instead, we would have been ripped to shreds.

We are a counter attacking side, of very limited technical ability. Our strength is our work rate, team cohesion and rigid formation. Our fans really do need to understand that. We WILLINGLY surrender posession in non dangerous areas of the field, we are not forced to do that, we want to - it is the plan. I am stunned that there are people who actually believe if we go toe to toe with teams such as England, we should be coming out on top. Its utterly bizarre.

We have TWO Reading players in our starting 11 for heavens sake, not to mention players from the likes of MK Dons and Wolves regularly getting game time. To be winning at half time and drawing 1-1 after 91 mins is a credit and testament to that style of play, the manager and the tram as a whole. Amazing.

Very true, however England played us at our own game yesterday, straight from the kick off
, they were in our faces, & whenever we did get the ball, they were on us like a rash, forcing us into mistakes, & poor passes all game. We weren't allowed to hold on to possession for very long, therefore our counter attacks were virtually non existent.
For me it was like watching a Quality Premiership team playing a bottom three Premiership team, on another day we could have earned a point, but no amount of passion & commitment will ever be enough to overcome sheer quality & brilliance, when you need it most.

But a top quality Prem team against a lower end Prem team is basically exactly what it is. Yes we have Bale and Ramsey as our flagship players, but the rest are made up of mid table Prem, lower end Prem and championship players. I do not think this squad would fare well in the Premier league.

Thats why I think our defeat was heroic rather than something we must now try to apportion blame to. I am pinching myself at the position we find ourselves in. It has been a remarkable few years.

I've never been a fan of coleman and have been slatted on here and social media for my views. To me he is a lucky manager who got us through qualifying because we have 3 real quality players (Ashley Williams, Ramsey and Bale). At club level he was shocking.

On Saturday v Slovakia we were good in first half but as soon as the Slovakians made a change we were on back foot and we struggled. They equalised and were better team until HRK's late goal.

Todays game was similar. First half there wasn't a lot between teams. Second half Woy changed tactics and we were battered for 45 minutes. What did Coleman do? He stood there like a young Russell Slade and took ages to change things. We desperately needed someone up front to hold the ball up. Vokes could have done that.

Maybe i'm being harsh and England were far superior but I genuinely believe that after taking the lead we should have got a point from this.

what you fail to mention in your selective post is that Coleman changed things after slovakia equalised and were on top... or does he not deserve any credit for that?

Vardy was barely involved in the game yesterday, it was - for me - the introduction of Sturridge that changed the game. just have to accept that they have far more rescources that we do... still proud of the team!

Agree with the above.

When somene does not like a manager, for whatever reason that may be... (ahem), then they tend to want to blame him when the team loses, even if the opposition is 10 times better on paper and the defeat by the narrowest of margins. However the telling thing is when the team wins, then it is down to the players, the manager is merely a lucky passenger - even if it was the manager that clearly changed the game for the better (slovakia). I cannot understand why anybody would want to pick holes, blame and alienate in what is such a fabulous time to be a Wales fan. I am truly beaming with pride these days and not felt like that about the international set up for a long time.

And that my friend has been my Cardiff city experience for over 40 years a couple of quality players each year with the rest if the team made up of trier's who lack ability.

Coleman has limited resources.

Wales and England look like parks teams - poor touch, huff and puff, no brains. Spain first half tonight looked great.

Even Albania look better than England.

I am not knocking the tactics, but, I would have Ben Davies down the flank, offers much more than Taylor attacking and defending.

I've never been a fan of coleman and have been slatted on here and social media for my views. To me he is a lucky manager who got us through qualifying because we have 3 real quality players (Ashley Williams, Ramsey and Bale). At club level he was shocking.

On Saturday v Slovakia we were good in first half but as soon as the Slovakians made a change we were on back foot and we struggled. They equalised and were better team until HRK's late goal.

Todays game was similar. First half there wasn't a lot between teams. Second half Woy changed tactics and we were battered for 45 minutes. What did Coleman do? He stood there like a young Russell Slade and took ages to change things. We desperately needed someone up front to hold the ball up. Vokes could have done that.

Maybe i'm being harsh and England were far superior but I genuinely believe that after taking the lead we should have got a point from this.

what you fail to mention in your selective post is that Coleman changed things after slovakia equalised and were on top... or does he not deserve any credit for that?

Vardy was barely involved in the game yesterday, it was - for me - the introduction of Sturridge that changed the game. just have to accept that they have far more rescources that we do... still proud of the team!

it took him over 20 minutes to change things v the Slovaks by which time we were lucky not to be behind. As for vardy being barely involved he scored a bloody goal!

Coleman in my opinion is tactically inept which is why in both games we have lost the lead. I hope i'm wrong as id love to see wales qualify but the international version of slade will cost us a top 2 place.

My case in point revealed above. When he wins - he is lucky. When he loses - he is crap. As a result - this thread becomes pointless, because he will never be able to do right in a minority of peoples eyes.

He is the most successful Welsh manager in most peoples living memory and despite having to put up with a minority of people wishing the side fails because they dont like where he is from or who he supports, he has us on the brink of the last 16. Truly incredible achievement regardless of what happens on Monday.

The overwhelming majority of the footballing world will recognise that anyway.

My case in point revealed above. When he wins - he is lucky. When he loses - he is crap. As a result - this thread becomes pointless, because he will never be able to do right in a minority of peoples eyes.

He is the most successful Welsh manager in most peoples living memory and despite having to put up with a minority of people wishing the side fails because they dont like where he is from or who he supports, he has us on the brink of the last 16. Truly incredible achievement regardless of what happens on Monday.

The overwhelming majority of the footballing world will recognise that anyway. :roll:

Totally agree with you.

Seems to me Gareth has some personal vendetta against Coleman. Each to they own I guess.

Trying to work out which thread is more embarrassing this one of nuclerablues lads one lol. ;-)

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

It is because of the players we have I predicted we would not have a chance of getting out of the group stages. Three points more than I expected already, and still in with a shout and not having to rely on other teams to do us a favour. Our destiny is within our own hands, and although I am not a fan of Coleman, I can't see how he can be criticised for getting us into this position.

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

It is because of the players we have I predicted we would not have a chance of getting out of the group stages. Three points more than I expected already, and still in with a shout and not having to rely on other teams to do us a favour. Our destiny is within our own hands, and although I am not a fan of Coleman, I can't see how he can be criticised for getting us into this position.

Do you genuinely believe that Russia and the Slovaks have better squads than us? I think that people don't realise what a good squad we have. Hennessy is reasonable but certainly not top quality. Ashley Williams has been one of the best defenders in pl for last 4 seasons and would get in most teams. James Collins who can't get in is a good player. Taylor is a solid defender as is Davies. Rambo and Bale would get into most teams in tournament. We have other good players like King, Ledley and Vokes. More importantly because we have some good leaders (especially Williams) there is a great team spirit which is something money can't buy. Add in the legacy of Gary speed and we have a squad that should qualify in 2nd place.

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

It is because of the players we have I predicted we would not have a chance of getting out of the group stages. Three points more than I expected already, and still in with a shout and not having to rely on other teams to do us a favour. Our destiny is within our own hands, and although I am not a fan of Coleman, I can't see how he can be criticised for getting us into this position.

Do you genuinely believe that Russia and the Slovaks have better squads than us? I think that people don't realise what a good squad we have. Hennessy is reasonable but certainly not top quality. Ashley Williams has been one of the best defenders in pl for last 4 seasons and would get in most teams. James Collins who can't get in is a good player. Taylor is a solid defender as is Davies. Rambo and Bale would get into most teams in tournament. We have other good players like King, Ledley and Vokes. More importantly because we have some good leaders (especially Williams) there is a great team spirit which is something money can't buy. Add in the legacy of Gary speed and we have a squad that should qualify in 2nd place.

Correct Gareth Some people think it's some kind of magic spell that got us to the tournament and that criticism of Coleman's team selection/tactics is off limits

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

It is because of the players we have I predicted we would not have a chance of getting out of the group stages. Three points more than I expected already, and still in with a shout and not having to rely on other teams to do us a favour. Our destiny is within our own hands, and although I am not a fan of Coleman, I can't see how he can be criticised for getting us into this position.

Do you genuinely believe that Russia and the Slovaks have better squads than us? I think that people don't realise what a good squad we have. Hennessy is reasonable but certainly not top quality. Ashley Williams has been one of the best defenders in pl for last 4 seasons and would get in most teams. James Collins who can't get in is a good player. Taylor is a solid defender as is Davies. Rambo and Bale would get into most teams in tournament. We have other good players like King, Ledley and Vokes. More importantly because we have some good leaders (especially Williams) there is a great team spirit which is something money can't buy. Add in the legacy of Gary speed and we have a squad that should qualify in 2nd place.

Correct Gareth Some people think it's some kind of magic spell that got us to the tournament and that criticism of Coleman's team selection/tactics is off limits

Unbelievable.

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

It is because of the players we have I predicted we would not have a chance of getting out of the group stages. Three points more than I expected already, and still in with a shout and not having to rely on other teams to do us a favour. Our destiny is within our own hands, and although I am not a fan of Coleman, I can't see how he can be criticised for getting us into this position.

Do you genuinely believe that Russia and the Slovaks have better squads than us? I think that people don't realise what a good squad we have. Hennessy is reasonable but certainly not top quality. Ashley Williams has been one of the best defenders in pl for last 4 seasons and would get in most teams. James Collins who can't get in is a good player. Taylor is a solid defender as is Davies. Rambo and Bale would get into most teams in tournament. We have other good players like King, Ledley and Vokes. More importantly because we have some good leaders (especially Williams) there is a great team spirit which is something money can't buy. Add in the legacy of Gary speed and we have a squad that should qualify in 2nd place.

Perhaps you see something in players that I don't. Lots on here started last season saying City would be win the league, then that they would certainly be in the play offs, and then how we would win at Wednesday to get 6th place. I was in the group who said from day one that we would'nt finish in the top 6, based on taking a neutral point of view and looking at our team without blue tinted glasses. I am doing the same with Wales. We have a world class player who apart from two free kicks has done little else yet, a class player in Ramsey, and one or two good players plus six or seven average players. As far as squads are concerned, our strength in depth compared to the stronger sides could be seen in our last match. England are no world beaters but look at the subs they made. All of them would have walked into our team. I am not a fan of Coleman, and was disappointed when he was chosen as Wales manager. However, he has done ok so far, and if you look at his win ratio, his stats to date are very similar to Speed.

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

Criticism or a critique is a rationale based opinion on an event or events. You are not using rationale so I think that as abuse. If you were using rationale then you would have the ability to accept when he wins us matched with his decisions. When that happens you still try and put a negative on it by either claiming he was lucky, we won despite him, the changes he made which won us the game came too late (that was was my fave). So on that basis it is a situation where he cannot win, that is not a critique.. or criticism. its abuse.

The fact you still say ''I hope he proves me wrong'' is telling in itself - when most would make the point that he has already quite categorically proven you wrong by being the most successful manager of our side in history, certainly in the last 60 years anyway.

we play 4-5-1 (5-3-2 actually) because our strength is counter attacking. It doesn't matter what formations they play at their clubs, this is a different side as is the case for all international set ups. Why should Andy King command a place? Id rather the trio of Ramsey, Allen and Ledley to be fair. Unless you want to make him a wing back ... which is a decision crazier than anything you have unfairly levelled at Coleman.

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

Criticism or a critique is a rationale based opinion on an event or events. You are not using rationale so I think that as abuse. If you were using rationale then you would have the ability to accept when he wins us matched with his decisions. When that happens you still try and put a negative on it by either claiming he was lucky, we won despite him, the changes he made which won us the game came too late (that was was my fave). So on that basis it is a situation where he cannot win, that is not a critique.. or criticism. its abuse.

The fact you still say ''I hope he proves me wrong'' is telling in itself - when most would make the point that he has already quite categorically proven you wrong by being the most successful manager of our side in history, certainly in the last 60 years anyway.

we play 4-5-1 (5-3-2 actually) because our strength is counter attacking. It doesn't matter what formations they play at their clubs, this is a different side as is the case for all international set ups. Why should Andy King command a place? Id rather the trio of Ramsey, Allen and Ledley to be fair. Unless you want to make him a wing back ... which is a decision crazier than anything you have unfairly levelled at Coleman.

It's all about opinions. In my opinion the team should be Hennesey, Gunter, Chester, Williams, and Davies. Midfield should be Allen, Ramsey, Ledley and King. Vokes up front with Bale in a free role.

As for your comment that 451 is 532 please explain.

You say Coleman is most successful manager in our history. Our qualification group was not exactly difficult with only Belgium being decent opposition. Our performances against them were excellent. The only other good performance is qualifying was Israel away where Bale put in a world class performance. No doubt you will say how wonderful coleman was in inspiring the team to beat Andorra on an artificial pitch.

Agree with Mr Zodiak.

According to transfermarket.com Russia have a squad worth of £104 million. It is an even spread too, there is no one player bumping that up and holding the vast majority of that transfer value. These are rough guides but are comparable so its still useful

Our squad worth is £124 million. But Bale commands over half of that on his own. So without him, our squad is worth 64 million and almist half as valuable as Russias. Not surprising considering Russias population is 48 times greater than Wales'. It also brings us in line with Slovakias squad value. So a match against Slovakia should be very tight with Bale being the difference - which was exactly the case. A match against Russia will see Russias overall quality being better than us, but with us having a player than could potentially undo them, if he is on song, again another accurate situation considering Russia are faves to beat us at the bookies.

Can we beat Russia? Yes. Should we beat Russia? No. Do we have an overall better squad than Russia? No.. But we have the best player.

There is a reason we have not qualified for a major competition for 60 years. We have always had a smattering of superstars like Giggs, Rush, Hughes, Bellamy etc but the reason we haven't, is because our strength in depth is awful. Would two Reading players get into Russias starting 11? No. Would an MK Dons player and a Wolves one get game time in a major competition? No. People need to stop getting carried away and realise the realistic nature of where we are as a nation and be thankful where we currently are, which is punching way above our weight as it is.

Its nausiating really mate. How any proud welshman can try to point fingers and abuse individuals in this set up just to satisfy some vendetta, after all they have given us - and continue to give us, is beyond me. Very sad indeed.

You watch now on Monday night, if he leads us to the last 16 then again he will be "lucky". If we miss out then its down to him. And you can pretty much repeat that no matter what stage we get to in this competition, probably even the final.

Where have I abused him? Unless calling him tactically inept is abuse!!!

I have given a personal opinion and despite not liking him as a manager I have said I hope he proves me wrong.

I see similarities with slade in Coleman. All of last season we were on brink of play offs yet because of slade we fell short. Wales are not good enough to win the group (although they can) but we should qualify with the players we have. I can't understand why we play 5-4-1. Our defenders are all used to playing in a back 4 for their clubs. Why is king not playing? Why was vokes not played v England?

Criticism or a critique is a rationale based opinion on an event or events. You are not using rationale so I think that as abuse. If you were using rationale then you would have the ability to accept when he wins us matched with his decisions. When that happens you still try and put a negative on it by either claiming he was lucky, we won despite him, the changes he made which won us the game came too late (that was was my fave). So on that basis it is a situation where he cannot win, that is not a critique.. or criticism. its abuse.

The fact you still say ''I hope he proves me wrong'' is telling in itself - when most would make the point that he has already quite categorically proven you wrong by being the most successful manager of our side in history, certainly in the last 60 years anyway.

we play 4-5-1 (5-3-2 actually) because our strength is counter attacking. It doesn't matter what formations they play at their clubs, this is a different side as is the case for all international set ups. Why should Andy King command a place? Id rather the trio of Ramsey, Allen and Ledley to be fair. Unless you want to make him a wing back ... which is a decision crazier than anything you have unfairly levelled at Coleman.

It's all about opinions. In my opinion the team should be Hennesey, Gunter, Chester, Williams, and Davies. Midfield should be Allen, Ramsey, Ledley and King. Vokes up front with Bale in a free role.

As for your comment that 451 is 532 please explain.

You say Coleman is most successful manager in our history. Our qualification group was not exactly difficult with only Belgium being decent opposition. Our performances against them were excellent. The only other good performance is qualifying was Israel away where Bale put in a world class performance. No doubt you will say how wonderful coleman was in inspiring the team to beat Andorra on an artificial pitch.

Thats great, opinions are what makes football a great game. But when you are saying our manager is tactically inept because he doesnt agree woth you (presumably a profession nothing even close to football) I am sure you can see why actual supporters of the side may get a little irked by it.

5-3-2. 3 center backs, two wing backs, 3 central midfielders, 2 up front is the more accurate description of our formation. Bale is given a free role but he is essentially a second striker supporting Kanu.

Of course he is our most successful manager. To suggest otherwise just smacks of one sided vendetta. You do realise we got 4 points from the two Belgium games right and didnt concede a goal? Guess we were just lucky again.

What a joke Coleman is totally inept. Only winning 3-0 and winning the group. Then takes bale off. He off his rocker get him out now before he does to much damage to welsh football by taking them even further in to the euros.

He got lucky

Not read my post praising Coleman for getting it right tonight? Strange that from faceless keyboard warriors!