Sam today

It is always easy to point to specific circumstances and apportion blame.

However, the way I look it is this. If we take as given the club will be debt free in 2021 then we can judge the period 2000-2021 as a complete success. In 2000 Sam Hammam turned up at CCFC as we got used to life again in the Fourth Division. His stated plan was to build a new stadium and make the club debt free.

By 2021 that will have been achieved. Of course others have contributed and the Lion's share has come from Vincent Tan.

That's why unlike 99% of other fans I admire both Sam Hammam and Vincent Tan because without either the new stadium project and the long term outlook would-not be bright. Both men are out of pocket (Sam received no return on his £24m over a 12 year period) and VT is highly unlikely to ever see the most of his again.

If there were pantomime villains during that period then it was Peter Ridsdale/PMG. Both took cost the club a substantial amount of money and despite their self-proclaimed boasts their involvement in the stadium project was both peripheral and costly.

Tony I agree with you on all points apart from the last bit.

The involvement of both Peter Ridsdale ( who I think should never again have been allowed to have a role in football after what he did to us and other clubs) and PMG was far from peripheral, it was vital to make the new stadium a reality. Under Sam the project was dead in the water and would have remained so if he had not been forced out of the club ( in a way which I believe was underhand and callous mind). PMG put up the money and financial guarantees and also got the retail park development plans back on their feet after a period when it was going nowhere and Ridsdale pursuaded the Council to support the plan after they said they wouldn't if Sam stayed.

Of course what you are saying is correct about PMG and probably their role was more than peripheral in the stadium project.

However, the real point I was trying to make was that Sam and Tan should be lorded for their foresight and financial contributions to CCFC mainly because both are well out of pocket. In the case of Ridsdale he walked away well paid for the havoc he caused and PMG although putting up the money, walked away handsomely in profit by effectively asset stripping the stadium project for their own gain. There would never have been a project to save without Sam and it was dirty business the way it was taken from him in 2006.

It is always easy to point to specific circumstances and apportion blame.

However, the way I look it is this. If we take as given the club will be debt free in 2021 then we can judge the period 2000-2021 as a complete success. In 2000 Sam Hammam turned up at CCFC as we got used to life again in the Fourth Division. His stated plan was to build a new stadium and make the club debt free.

By 2021 that will have been achieved. Of course others have contributed and the Lion's share has come from Vincent Tan.

That's why unlike 99% of other fans I admire both Sam Hammam and Vincent Tan because without either the new stadium project and the long term outlook would-not be bright. Both men are out of pocket (Sam received no return on his £24m over a 12 year period) and VT is highly unlikely to ever see the most of his again.

If there were pantomime villains during that period then it was Peter Ridsdale/PMG. Both took cost the club a substantial amount of money and despite their self-proclaimed boasts their involvement in the stadium project was both peripheral and costly.

Tony I agree with you on all points apart from the last bit.

The involvement of both Peter Ridsdale ( who I think should never again have been allowed to have a role in football after what he did to us and other clubs) and PMG was far from peripheral, it was vital to make the new stadium a reality. Under Sam the project was dead in the water and would have remained so if he had not been forced out of the club ( in a way which I believe was underhand and callous mind). PMG put up the money and financial guarantees and also got the retail park development plans back on their feet after a period when it was going nowhere and Ridsdale pursuaded the Council to support the plan after they said they wouldn't if Sam stayed.

Of course what you are saying is correct about PMG and probably their role was more than peripheral in the stadium project.

However, the real point I was trying to make was that Sam and Tan should be lorded for their foresight and financial contributions to CCFC mainly because both are well out of pocket. In the case of Ridsdale he walked away well paid for the havoc he caused and PMG although putting up the money, walked away handsomely in profit by effectively asset stripping the stadium project for their own gain. There would never have been a project to save without Sam and it was dirty business the way it was taken from him in 2006.

how is Sam out of pocket ????? Tan is yes Sam no way is out of pocket at all

There was no need to abuse Sam or those that was around him. For me I didn't want to see him so stayed well away. As for going at fellow fans that is inexcusable especially as some had there kids with them.

It is always easy to point to specific circumstances and apportion blame.

However, the way I look it is this. If we take as given the club will be debt free in 2021 then we can judge the period 2000-2021 as a complete success. In 2000 Sam Hammam turned up at CCFC as we got used to life again in the Fourth Division. His stated plan was to build a new stadium and make the club debt free.

By 2021 that will have been achieved. Of course others have contributed and the Lion's share has come from Vincent Tan.

That's why unlike 99% of other fans I admire both Sam Hammam and Vincent Tan because without either the new stadium project and the long term outlook would-not be bright. Both men are out of pocket (Sam received no return on his £24m over a 12 year period) and VT is highly unlikely to ever see the most of his again.

If there were pantomime villains during that period then it was Peter Ridsdale/PMG. Both took cost the club a substantial amount of money and despite their self-proclaimed boasts their involvement in the stadium project was both peripheral and costly.

Tony I agree with you on all points apart from the last bit.

The involvement of both Peter Ridsdale ( who I think should never again have been allowed to have a role in football after what he did to us and other clubs) and PMG was far from peripheral, it was vital to make the new stadium a reality. Under Sam the project was dead in the water and would have remained so if he had not been forced out of the club ( in a way which I believe was underhand and callous mind). PMG put up the money and financial guarantees and also got the retail park development plans back on their feet after a period when it was going nowhere and Ridsdale pursuaded the Council to support the plan after they said they wouldn't if Sam stayed.

Of course what you are saying is correct about PMG and probably their role was more than peripheral in the stadium project.

However, the real point I was trying to make was that Sam and Tan should be lorded for their foresight and financial contributions to CCFC mainly because both are well out of pocket. In the case of Ridsdale he walked away well paid for the havoc he caused and PMG although putting up the money, walked away handsomely in profit by effectively asset stripping the stadium project for their own gain. There would never have been a project to save without Sam and it was dirty business the way it was taken from him in 2006.

Tony.

Having seen the figures , PMG didn`t make much out of the stadium development for the risk they took in putting up the money and the guarantees , other than getting their money back plus 7% p.a. interest (the same rate as directors and others lent money to the club).

They took on responsibility for getting investors and tenants into the retail park development after the previous agents brought in by Sam had failed to attract a major tenant and the whole scheme looked like falling apart. I have no personal views on Paul Guy and Mike Hall at PMG , but it certainly unfair to say that they in any way "asset stripped" the stadium project as there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate they did.

The only "asset stripping" as such appears to be where Ridsdale gave certain contracts and jobs to "mates" (possibly on favourable terms?) and took out large salaries and share allocations himself (at the time I stated that they were taken when the conditions to do so had not been met).

I agree entirely that it was dirty business the manner in which Sam was removed even though it was essential to rescue the stadium project that he went. It had been his idea and inspiration that got the project off the ground , for which he is due great credit , but it was floundering badly under his control and he had lost all confidence and support from the key players involved in making it actually happen , like the Council , investors etc.

Keith

It is always easy to point to specific circumstances and apportion blame.

However, the way I look it is this. If we take as given the club will be debt free in 2021 then we can judge the period 2000-2021 as a complete success. In 2000 Sam Hammam turned up at CCFC as we got used to life again in the Fourth Division. His stated plan was to build a new stadium and make the club debt free.

By 2021 that will have been achieved. Of course others have contributed and the Lion's share has come from Vincent Tan.

That's why unlike 99% of other fans I admire both Sam Hammam and Vincent Tan because without either the new stadium project and the long term outlook would-not be bright. Both men are out of pocket (Sam received no return on his £24m over a 12 year period) and VT is highly unlikely to ever see the most of his again.

If there were pantomime villains during that period then it was Peter Ridsdale/PMG. Both took cost the club a substantial amount of money and despite their self-proclaimed boasts their involvement in the stadium project was both peripheral and costly.

Tony I agree with you on all points apart from the last bit.

The involvement of both Peter Ridsdale ( who I think should never again have been allowed to have a role in football after what he did to us and other clubs) and PMG was far from peripheral, it was vital to make the new stadium a reality. Under Sam the project was dead in the water and would have remained so if he had not been forced out of the club ( in a way which I believe was underhand and callous mind). PMG put up the money and financial guarantees and also got the retail park development plans back on their feet after a period when it was going nowhere and Ridsdale pursuaded the Council to support the plan after they said they wouldn't if Sam stayed.

Of course what you are saying is correct about PMG and probably their role was more than peripheral in the stadium project.

However, the real point I was trying to make was that Sam and Tan should be lorded for their foresight and financial contributions to CCFC mainly because both are well out of pocket. In the case of Ridsdale he walked away well paid for the havoc he caused and PMG although putting up the money, walked away handsomely in profit by effectively asset stripping the stadium project for their own gain. There would never have been a project to save without Sam and it was dirty business the way it was taken from him in 2006.

how is Sam out of pocket ????? Tan is yes Sam no way is out of pocket at all

In my earlier post I explained that Sam had £24m tied up in loan notes for the best part of 12 years. In that time the money good have earned him a sizable amount in interest or investment else where. What effectively happened was we received a loan of £24m for 12 years at 0%APR.