1948s weekly poll - Welsh Independence

No. I support the Wales football team, but that's as far as my Welshness goes. Got more in common with an English football fan, than a Welsh egg-chaser. Got more in common with an English worker than with a Welsh academic, or poet, etc.

In Cardiff we have far more in common culturally with say Scousers than we do with the people of welsh speaking Gwynedd.

Such as ?

Docks, Irish immigration

No. I support the Wales football team, but that's as far as my Welshness goes. Got more in common with an English football fan, than a Welsh egg-chaser. Got more in common with an English worker than with a Welsh academic, or poet, etc.

In Cardiff we have far more in common culturally with say Scousers than we do with the people of welsh speaking Gwynedd.

Such as ?

Docks, Irish immigration

Car thieves.

No. I support the Wales football team, but that's as far as my Welshness goes. Got more in common with an English football fan, than a Welsh egg-chaser. Got more in common with an English worker than with a Welsh academic, or poet, etc.

In Cardiff we have far more in common culturally with say Scousers than we do with the people of welsh speaking Gwynedd.

Such as ?

Docks, Irish immigration

Car thieves.

Robbie Fowler

No. I support the Wales football team, but that's as far as my Welshness goes. Got more in common with an English football fan, than a Welsh egg-chaser. Got more in common with an English worker than with a Welsh academic, or poet, etc.

In Cardiff we have far more in common culturally with say Scousers than we do with the people of welsh speaking Gwynedd.

Such as ?

The history of both Liverpool and Cardiff are inter connected and broadly the same.

I have nothing in common with North Walians and would feel more at home up North in England.Many North Walians do not consider us Southern Welsh as Welsh at all.As far as the Cottage Burners well the less said the better.As for the Welsh Assembly.... another layer off useless parasitic turds who talk a lot and do f**k all whilst simultaneously granting themselves pay rises well over and above the rate of inflation .Most of them are barely literate and regularly make fools of themselves on TV attempting to string a coherent argument together.The vote in 1997 was surely rigged with the sausage jockey, bush creeping Ron Davies in charge.Wales is the land of "jobs for the boyo's", political corruption that would make the Spanish blush

I have nothing in common with North Walians and would feel more at home up North in England.Many North Walians do not consider us Southern Welsh as Welsh at all.As far as the Cottage Burners well the less said the better.As for the Welsh Assembly.... another layer off useless parasitic turds who talk a lot and do f**k all whilst simultaneously granting themselves pay rises well over and above the rate of inflation .Most of them are barely literate and regularly make fools of themselves on TV attempting to string a coherent argument together.The vote in 1997 was surely rigged with the sausage jockey, bush creeping Ron Davies in charge.Wales is the land of "jobs for the boyo's", political corruption that would make the Spanish blush

Oh dear

It's far more one sided than I though it would be, seems as though there's little appetite for independence at the moment.

Far less one sided than I expected, typical polls report independence support at less than 5%.

That particular poll was a complete fraud though.

There were a number of different options, only one of them said "Do you support independence at all costs" other options were stuff like "more devolution with a view to independence". The problem Plaid have is they only seem to care about Welsh speakers which leaves the majority of Wales excluded.

The Welsh Government is a good thing, it's not devolution which is the problem it's the labour party (which plaid will go into coalition with and thus back into power this May).

That old chestnut. You can't keep using that one unless you have proof that they only care about Welsh speakers.

I have nothing in common with North Walians and would feel more at home up North in England.Many North Walians do not consider us Southern Welsh as Welsh at all.As far as the Cottage Burners well the less said the better.As for the Welsh Assembly.... another layer off useless parasitic turds who talk a lot and do f**k all whilst simultaneously granting themselves pay rises well over and above the rate of inflation .Most of them are barely literate and regularly make fools of themselves on TV attempting to string a coherent argument together.The vote in 1997 was surely rigged with the sausage jockey, bush creeping Ron Davies in charge.Wales is the land of "jobs for the boyo's", political corruption that would make the Spanish blush

OMG

Moonboots - I said "seem to" it's very different to saying they only care about Welsh speakers. They are perceived by large parts of the country to not care about them.

My evidence? Look at the latest General election results, Plaids only seats come in areas with high amount of Welsh speakers. They got beaten comfortably in the Valleys by UKIP who got 20k more votes than them nationwide. I am afraid it seems like I am not alone in making that assumption.

No. I support the Wales football team, but that's as far as my Welshness goes. Got more in common with an English football fan, than a Welsh egg-chaser. Got more in common with an English worker than with a Welsh academic, or poet, etc.

In Cardiff we have far more in common culturally with say Scousers than we do with the people of welsh speaking Gwynedd.

Such as ?

The history of both Liverpool and Cardiff are inter connected and broadly the same.

As is Glasgow, Belfast and (dare I say it) Swansea and any other seaside city with a docks and an industrial past

I have nothing in common with North Walians and would feel more at home up North in England.Many North Walians do not consider us Southern Welsh as Welsh at all.As far as the Cottage Burners well the less said the better.As for the Welsh Assembly.... another layer off useless parasitic turds who talk a lot and do f**k all whilst simultaneously granting themselves pay rises well over and above the rate of inflation .Most of them are barely literate and regularly make fools of themselves on TV attempting to string a coherent argument together.The vote in 1997 was surely rigged with the sausage jockey, bush creeping Ron Davies in charge.Wales is the land of "jobs for the boyo's", political corruption that would make the Spanish blush

You've pretty much covered every cliche and sweeping generalisation in one small paragraph

Wales could not run itself end.

We take a lot of money from the UK coffers and for Wales to be able to run itself it would have to raise the tax levels to silly levels. Add to that we have high unemployment and low wages and a country that is obsessed with a dead language

Game over

Nearly 600,000 speakers says otherwise . . .

Yes....On the weekend the govt announces big cutbacks to Welsh language education. It also announces it will spend millions to make sure that. Muslim immigrants learn English or get sent home.What about sending all the English in Wales who complain about the Welsh language back home go England.

Why would they complain about the Welsh language, when the official language of Wales is English?

Besides, alot of the English living here, usually have money.

Wales has two official languages, not one.

I have nothing in common with North Walians and would feel more at home up North in England.Many North Walians do not consider us Southern Welsh as Welsh at all.As far as the Cottage Burners well the less said the better.As for the Welsh Assembly.... another layer off useless parasitic turds who talk a lot and do f**k all whilst simultaneously granting themselves pay rises well over and above the rate of inflation .Most of them are barely literate and regularly make fools of themselves on TV attempting to string a coherent argument together.The vote in 1997 was surely rigged with the sausage jockey, bush creeping Ron Davies in charge.Wales is the land of "jobs for the boyo's", political corruption that would make the Spanish blush

A noble cause if ever there was one

Moonboots - I said "seem to" it's very different to saying they only care about Welsh speakers. They are perceived by large parts of the country to not care about them.

My evidence? Look at the latest General election results, Plaids only seats come in areas with high amount of Welsh speakers. They got beaten comfortably in the Valleys by UKIP who got 20k more votes than them nationwide. I am afraid it seems like I am not alone in making that assumption.

At one time most people thought the earth was flat!!! Were they right?? Most people in Wales don't speak Welsh and many who don't seem to have a chip on their shoulder about those that do. And just because Plaid get most of their support from Welsh speaking areas it certainly doesn't mean that Plaid only care about Welsh speakers. There is no evidence as far as I can see that they favour Welsh speakers over non Welsh speakers. It's just a perception that many like to put about for some reason.

Moonboots - I said "seem to" it's very different to saying they only care about Welsh speakers. They are perceived by large parts of the country to not care about them.

My evidence? Look at the latest General election results, Plaids only seats come in areas with high amount of Welsh speakers. They got beaten comfortably in the Valleys by UKIP who got 20k more votes than them nationwide. I am afraid it seems like I am not alone in making that assumption.

At one time most people thought the earth was flat!!! Were they right?? Most people in Wales don't speak Welsh and many who don't seem to have a chip on their shoulder about those that do. And just because Plaid get most of their support from Welsh speaking areas it certainly doesn't mean that Plaid only care about Welsh speakers. There is no evidence as far as I can see that they favour Welsh speakers over non Welsh speakers. It's just a perception that many like to put about for some reason.

You can use the "people thought the earth was flat" argument against Plaid or any opinion for that matter.

I'll change the wording of my statement to Plaid only being relevant to Welsh speaking areas then. They don't seem to be making any inroads into English speaking areas of Wales and are almost certainly going to come fourth in the elections in May behind Labour, Conservatives and UKIP in terms of number of votes. Iv'e provided plenty of evidence as to why I believe people perceive Plaid to only care about Welsh speaking areas, instead of arguing against it perhaps Plaid supporters should look at why that perception exists and is "put about".

Moonboots - I said "seem to" it's very different to saying they only care about Welsh speakers. They are perceived by large parts of the country to not care about them.

My evidence? Look at the latest General election results, Plaids only seats come in areas with high amount of Welsh speakers. They got beaten comfortably in the Valleys by UKIP who got 20k more votes than them nationwide. I am afraid it seems like I am not alone in making that assumption.

At one time most people thought the earth was flat!!! Were they right?? Most people in Wales don't speak Welsh and many who don't seem to have a chip on their shoulder about those that do. And just because Plaid get most of their support from Welsh speaking areas it certainly doesn't mean that Plaid only care about Welsh speakers. There is no evidence as far as I can see that they favour Welsh speakers over non Welsh speakers. It's just a perception that many like to put about for some reason.

You can use the "people thought the earth was flat" argument against Plaid or any opinion for that matter.

I'll change the wording of my statement to Plaid only being relevant to Welsh speaking areas then. They don't seem to be making any inroads into English speaking areas of Wales and are almost certainly going to come fourth in the elections in May behind Labour, Conservatives and UKIP in terms of number of votes. Iv'e provided plenty of evidence as to why I believe people perceive Plaid to only care about Welsh speaking areas, instead of arguing against it perhaps Plaid supporters should look at why that perception exists and is "put about".

What evidence? The evidence of perception?? That doesn't count! You believe that people perceive....not exactly evidence!! At least you were big enough to withdraw your original statement....fair play

The evidence is the repeated general election results which shows that Plaid has not made much of an impact on non Welsh speaking areas. What more do you want? Leanne Wood and Plaid supporters have repeatedly made out UKIP are anti Welsh etc, was very embarrassing for them when UKIP achieved 20k more votes than Plaid in the last election. Until Plaid win seats in the cities and the Valleys they won't get anywhere, denying you have problem with how the electorate in these areas perceive them will just further the issue.

It's not the language that stops me voting for Plaid it's their left wing socialist views that alienate me.

The evidence is the repeated general election results which shows that Plaid has not made much of an impact on non Welsh speaking areas. What more do you want? Leanne Wood and Plaid supporters have repeatedly made out UKIP are anti Welsh etc, was very embarrassing for them when UKIP achieved 20k more votes than Plaid in the last election. Until Plaid win seats in the cities and the Valleys they won't get anywhere, denying you have problem with how the electorate in these areas perceive them will just further the issue.

It's not the language that stops me voting for Plaid it's their left wing socialist views that alienate me.

So if Plaid were a right wing party that wanted Welsh independence you would vote for them?

So if Plaid were a right wing party that wanted Welsh independence you would vote for them?

I'd certainly consider it more that's for sure. At the moment I can't vote for them because they are so left wing, they just take the left wing stance on everything, just lazy really. It flies in the face of everything I believe in. Not everyone who votes for Plaid will believe in independence as the Scottish referendum proved. Plaid wanting independence would not stop me voting for them, if they could prove that Wales would be better off as a separate country then I would even vote to leave the UK. I'm open minded about the idea of independence.

So if Plaid were a right wing party that wanted Welsh independence you would vote for them?

I'd certainly consider it more that's for sure. At the moment I can't vote for them because they are so left wing, they just take the left wing stance on everything, just lazy really. It flies in the face of everything I believe in. Not everyone who votes for Plaid will believe in independence as the Scottish referendum proved. Plaid wanting independence would not stop me voting for them, if they could prove that Wales would be better off as a separate country then I would even vote to leave the UK. I'm open minded about the idea of independence.

I can't ever see a right wing independent Wales. It does piss me off how Wales is always shafted by Westminster. All the major investment seems to have gone to London and the south east. Wales has been starved of investment for years and since they destroyed manufacturing and coal mining it means our economy is fucked leaving us vulnerable and dependent upon benefits and public sector jobs. We are not in a position to be financially independent as a nation at the moment (even Plaid admit that) but we should definitely try to pull together in an effort to try and achieve financial independence. This could still be done within a federal UK but we need to have control of all our resources such as the ability to control all of our natural resources. Energy production is the future and has the potential to create a lot of wealth for Wales. Surely, even those who don't want Wales to be an independent nation should still wish to see a Wales that can stand on its own feet financially and not be dependent upon handouts....if only from the point of view of pride.

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Yes....On the weekend the govt announces big cutbacks to Welsh language education. It also announces it will spend millions to make sure that. Muslim immigrants learn English or get sent home.What about sending all the English in Wales who complain about the Welsh language back home go England.

Why would they complain about the Welsh language, when the official language of Wales is English?

Besides, alot of the English living here, usually have money.

Wales has two official languages, not one.

I stand corrected. Apparently a law came into effect as of 2011 stating Welsh is an official language of Wales. My apologies.

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

We dont sponge off London. That myth is derogatory and misleading.
We all pay tax and Nat Ins.

London raped us of our natural resources. Destroying and flooding our land.
But
We have renewalable power sources they could only pray for, thats why they still wont let us go.

They need us.

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

We dont sponge off London. That myth is derogatory and misleading.
We all pay tax and Nat Ins.

London raped us of our natural resources. Destroying and flooding our land.
But
We have renewalable power sources they could only pray for, thats why they still wont let us go.

They need us.

With all due respect it's not up to London to let us go, it's up to the Welsh people to vote for parties and people that want to achieve independence. We are free to vote for who we want, we are not be oppressed.

Sponging wasn't the right word perhaps but we do spend more money in Wales than what we make through taxes. A massive public sector and areas of high unemployment see to that.

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

Totally agree

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

We dont sponge off London. That myth is derogatory and misleading.
We all pay tax and Nat Ins.

London raped us of our natural resources. Destroying and flooding our land.
But
We have renewalable power sources they could only pray for, thats why they still wont let us go.

They need us.

With all due respect it's not up to London to let us go, it's up to the Welsh people to vote for parties and people that want to achieve independence. We are free to vote for who we want, we are not be oppressed.

Sponging wasn't the right word perhaps but we do spend more money in Wales than what we make through taxes. A massive public sector and areas of high unemployment see to that.

Fair play
And in fairness let us go was a poor description.
But i do feel there is a poor man of britain mentality in wales which really holds us back.

Also the welsh language arguement sometimes derails things when in reality a goverment with more powers would make rules according to the majority of the people of Wales.
If the majority wanted to stick with bi-lingualism then thats what we would have. Or English or esperanto or welsh.
Ditto EU membership, ditto immigration laws, ditto Nato membership etc etc.

Plaid Cymru would become just another party and the country could move whichever way the people would want. But we could look after ourselves. And i bet those poor sods in Port Talbot would have had more support.

Sadly a lot of the posts on here reflect the brainwashing of the British media which largely ignores Wales. Look at the interest and extra support and powers given to Scotland. You hardly ever hear of any Welsh issues - we are an after thought.

Using the logic of some on here In Glasgow they should have just said "we've got more in common with Liverpool".

As for the post saying his Welshness extends to supporting the Welsh in football only etc - you should hang your head! In my book thats not really not Welsh at all nor is it really English. Maybe "without roots "? "Taeog?

The " Welsh speaking Wales v non Welsh speaking Wales is a case of swallowing " the divide and rule" mentality.I was brought up in Llanrumney not speaking Welsh. I dont think less of anyone who is non Welsh speaking Welsh. (Although I would want them to give their children the opportunity)

Also we should judge people as people and that is unaffected by whether they speak Welsh or not. Similarly I dont judge individuals because they are Welsh or English.But I am proud to be Welsh and we need to stand up and be counted!

(Although I did think the rant about salaries in the Assembly and the fixed devolution vote / Ron Davies etc was very funny

Yma o hyd

In terms of Plaid, it is difficult to judge them on their UK performances as they perform better in Assembly elections. For example, they are the only party in Wales who will spend more on the Assembly elections than they did Westminster.

Also, polls show that many people have 'positive feelings' towards Plaid. However, they just aren't able to turn that into votes.

On the right wing thing, Plaid's initial history is quite murky, with elements of the right interlocked with Welsh nationalism. There are pockets of nationalists on the right, mainly Jac o' the North.

One thing to argue against is that they will put Wales first every single time. That alone, is enough for me to vote for them.

Jac o Norths blog is great, I always enjoy reading it. He's putting a good argument forward against Wales being in the EU too. That's another thing, Plaid don't want to be ran by London but are happy to whore ourselves out to Brussells. Plaid don't want to sponge of London but are happy to sponge off Brussells. Hypocrisy.

We dont sponge off London. That myth is derogatory and misleading.
We all pay tax and Nat Ins.

London raped us of our natural resources. Destroying and flooding our land.
But
We have renewalable power sources they could only pray for, thats why they still wont let us go.

They need us.

With all due respect it's not up to London to let us go, it's up to the Welsh people to vote for parties and people that want to achieve independence. We are free to vote for who we want, we are not be oppressed.

Sponging wasn't the right word perhaps but we do spend more money in Wales than what we make through taxes. A massive public sector and areas of high unemployment see to that.

Fair play
And in fairness let us go was a poor description.
But i do feel there is a poor man of britain mentality in wales which really holds us back.

Also the welsh language arguement sometimes derails things when in reality a goverment with more powers would make rules according to the majority of the people of Wales.
If the majority wanted to stick with bi-lingualism then thats what we would have. Or English or esperanto or welsh.
Ditto EU membership, ditto immigration laws, ditto Nato membership etc etc.

Plaid Cymru would become just another party and the country could move whichever way the people would want. But we could look after ourselves. And i bet those poor sods in Port Talbot would have had more support.

I think you make a lot of good points. We have become the poor man of Britain, not because we are inferior in any way to the rest of the UK, but because we have been very badly treated by London governments. The resultant effect is that many Welsh people now feel scared to go it alone, fearful of possible failure and the negative consequences. It results, for many, in a subconscious inferiority complex. Our collective mindset tells us we would be better off by staying as we are.