' Without Peter Whittingham '

Here's a stat for you Tonteg. Ralls has played 2 more games than Whitts this season and has one less assist than him and one less goal.

I know you love a stat.

You should point out that Whittingham's only goal this season cam from the penalty spot. He hasn't scored from open paly since October last season. I believe this is symptomatic of his inability to get into forward positions from midfield. He doesn't have faith in his athletic abilities to advance then recover position quickly enough.

As illustrated by the second Burnley goal, his defensive frailties can be costly. He tends to close down space not the player with the ball and is very vulnerable to players running at him exposing his lack of pace.

Currently we have stronger players in the squad to cover the positions of centre and left sided midfield player in Slade 's preferred 4-4-2.


I thought the opening post was a fair and valid observation of Whittingham's current contribution to the team. It feels like people are replying to the poster not the actual content of the post.

The stat that I've giving is correct no matter which way you look at it. Tonteg came up with a stat to make Whitts look shit, I've pulled one out to say otherwise, point being you can twist stats to suit yourself.

Can't compare as Ralls has only played a few games in the middle. Whitts will always be a legend but you choose to ignore our form without him over the past 3 seasons which is quite astonishing.

You're missing the point also, I'm not choosing to ignore anything at all as you put it. I've just made the point that you can twist stats to suit any argument.

Yes but a stat around Whitts playing and not playing is comparable. Comparing Ralls and Whitts playing stats around goals and assists when they both have played in different areas of the field and Whitts having taken 90%+ of corners, free kicks and penalties is a pretty pointless stat

Here's a stat for you Tonteg. Ralls has played 2 more games than Whitts this season and has one less assist than him and one less goal.

I know you love a stat.

I do love a stat.

I don't think it's a surprise Whittingham will have more assists and goals than Ralls at this stage of the season as until now, Whittingham has taken all the corners, free kicks and penalties.

But Ralls has shown this season he can take very good corners and free kicks himself. Ralls' free kick to set up Kenwyne's header last Saturday was perfect. I think Ralls could rack up many more assists if given the opportunity. We will see what Ralls can do now Whittingham is out of the team.

It's over to Joe Ralls now, who for the record is also a fantastic player. We are very lucky to have two very good players in that position in him and Whitts.

It's just people are quick to forget how good Whitts really is. Ralls has the shirt now and I hope he takes his chance with more wins follow.

It certainly wasn't my intention to dismiss what Whittingham has done for our club. I will be forever thankful for all the great moments he's given us. His free kick away to Leicester in the playoffs, his corner for Ben Turner's equaliser at Wembley, his incredible goals etc.

If Ralls develops into a player anywhere close to how Whittingham was in is prime, we will have a very special player on our hands.

When Whitts played in Ralls position (left midfield) his stats smashed Ralls out of the park

Never ceases to amaze me Cardiff fans ability to always throw club legends under the bus.

The OP even seems to argue that he's not a legend, incredible!

If you pair think my honest, fair post backed up with facts is "throwing a club legend under a bus", I dread to think what you'll say when someone properly slates one of our players.

So are you saying that he's not a club legend?

There are pros and cons on both sides of the debate when trying compare the relative values of individual players, like so far this season Ralls has lost possession of the ball the same number of times that Whittingham did in the 43 games he played in last season. In fact so far this season Ralls is 5 times more likely to lose possession than Whittingham, like he did at Derby just before they scored thier 2nd goal.

To counter that stat Ralls shows greater tenacity than Whittingham in the CM role, he is 3 times as likely to win a tackle and twice as likely to block a shot or cross. Ralls also has a better short passing accuracy, about 3% better than Whittingham, but 5% less when it comes to long passing accuracy.

Whittingham remains our best player at controlling and keeping possession but people only seem to comment on his set piece delivery, which is exceptional at this level, but there is so much more to this player than corners and freekicks. It's sad that so many people don't see this.

Yesterday RS said he wished he had the Peter Whittingham of 3 seasons ago but I bet Whitts wishes he had the same manager as 3 years ago. That player from 3 seasons ago is very much alive but sadly he doesn't have a manager to get the best out of him.

The OP has a point and Ralls fully deserves his current place in CM but for me the question is why can't RS get the best out of our most gifted player?

Never ceases to amaze me Cardiff fans ability to always throw club legends under the bus.

The OP even seems to argue that he's not a legend, incredible!

If you pair think my honest, fair post backed up with facts is "throwing a club legend under a bus", I dread to think what you'll say when someone properly slates one of our players.

So are you saying that he's not a club legend?

I personally think Whittingham is a club legend, but Whittingham is the one player who brings such a divided opinion with our fans. That's why I said "some" would say he's a club legend in my OP.

There are pros and cons on both sides of the debate when trying compare the relative values of individual players, like so far this season Ralls has lost possession of the ball the same number of times that Whittingham did in the 43 games he played in last season. In fact so far this season Ralls is 5 times more likely to lose possession than Whittingham, like he did at Derby just before they scored thier 2nd goal.

To counter that stat Ralls shows greater tenacity than Whittingham in the CM role, he is 3 times as likely to win a tackle and twice as likely to block a shot or cross. Ralls also has a better short passing accuracy, about 3% better than Whittingham, but 5% less when it comes to long passing accuracy.

Whittingham remains our best player at controlling and keeping possession but people only seem to comment on his set piece delivery, which is exceptional at this level, but there is so much more to this player than corners and freekicks. It's sad that so many people don't see this.

Yesterday RS said he wished he had the Peter Whittingham of 3 seasons ago but I bet Whitts wishes he had the same manager as 3 years ago. That player from 3 seasons ago is very much alive but sadly he doesn't have a manager to get the best out of him.

The OP has a point and Ralls fully deserves his current place in CM but for me the question is why can't RS get the best out of our most gifted player?

Well said that man

If whitts was the player who lost the ball like Ralls did year Derby for their 2nd there would be outrage.

In fact One guy even blamed Whitts instead of Ralls for losing the ball and he was actually at the game such is the need to blame and knock a club legend at every opportunity. Sad state of affairs.

When Whitts played in Ralls position (left midfield) his stats smashed Ralls out of the park

Agreed and don;t think you will find anyone disagreeing with what he has done for this club but every player loses it. Ian Rush was amazing but look how his career ended, very sad.

Unfortunately Whitt's best days are behind him and in the centre of the pitch, Ralls has to start ahead of him every single time and you also won't find many who don;t want Ralls taking all of our corners and free kicks from now on

Never ceases to amaze me Cardiff fans ability to always throw club legends under the bus.

The OP even seems to argue that he's not a legend, incredible!

If you pair think my honest, fair post backed up with facts is "throwing a club legend under a bus", I dread to think what you'll say when someone properly slates one of our players.

So are you saying that he's not a club legend?

I personally think Whittingham is a club legend, but Whittingham is the one player who brings such a divided opinion with our fans. That's why I said "some" would say he's a club legend in my OP.

You followed that with a "not the last two seasons tell the story"

No they don't it's over the 9 seasons what determines wether or not he's a club legend not the 5 games he's missed in last 2 seasons.

Never ceases to amaze me Cardiff fans ability to always throw club legends under the bus.

The OP even seems to argue that he's not a legend, incredible!

If you pair think my honest, fair post backed up with facts is "throwing a club legend under a bus", I dread to think what you'll say when someone properly slates one of our players.

So are you saying that he's not a club legend?

I personally think Whittingham is a club legend, but Whittingham is the one player who brings such a divided opinion with our fans. That's why I said "some" would say he's a club legend in my OP.

I'm confident that in the cold light of day, most would class him as a club legend.

When Whitts played in Ralls position (left midfield) his stats smashed Ralls out of the park

Agreed and don;t think you will find anyone disagreeing with what he has done for this club but every player loses it. Ian Rush was amazing but look how his career ended, very sad.

Unfortunately Whitt's best days are behind him and in the centre of the pitch, Ralls has to start ahead of him every single time and you also won't find many who don;t want Ralls taking all of our corners and free kicks from now on

Why won't I find many who don't want Whitts to take our corners and free kicks? They've been our main supply of goals for 2 seasons??

His legs may have gone but his set piece delivery is still quality.

I'm a massive Whitts fan but I agree in Skades outdated style of 442 he's not best suited but I'd have him on the left instead of No one with Pilkington on the right.

I just tbink that whitts best days are behind him ,he has been a legend over the years tho

When Whitts played in Ralls position (left midfield) his stats smashed Ralls out of the park

Agreed and don;t think you will find anyone disagreeing with what he has done for this club but every player loses it. Ian Rush was amazing but look how his career ended, very sad.

Unfortunately Whitt's best days are behind him and in the centre of the pitch, Ralls has to start ahead of him every single time and you also won't find many who don;t want Ralls taking all of our corners and free kicks from now on

Why won't I find many who don't want Whitts to take our corners and free kicks? They've been our main supply of goals for 2 seasons??

His legs may have gone but his set piece delivery is still quality.

I'm a massive Whitts fan but I agree in Skades outdated style of 442 he's not best suited but I'd have him on the left instead of No one with Pilkington on the right.

Whitts has taken them all for years and been exceptional but this season they have been pretty woeful. Ralls has been taking more and more and puts in one hell of a ball. Sure he will never score anywhere near the amount of goals that Whitts has done but neither unfortunately will Whitts anymore

Without Peter Whittingham the past 2 seasons, the stats are as follows:

Played 5
Won 5
Scored 13

Some would say Peter Whittingham is a Cardiff City legend from all the seasons of service he's given us, giving us some incredible goals and performances. But the stats these past 2 seasons tells the story.

Opposing teams with more pace, power and energy get the better of us with an aging Whittingham in the centre. As soon as I read the team sheet today seeing Whittingham was dropped, I was more positive we would win today.

Whittingham's fans would comment on his set piece delivery, but Ralls and Pilkington's set piece deliveries are more than good enough. We also overly rely on Whittingham's set pieces when he's playing, because when Whittingham's on the pitch, we lack the pace and dynamism to open up the opposition during open play. We have scored 13 goals in the last 5 league games without Whittingham in the team.

With Slade's 4-4-2 system, Whittingham will always be struggling now. He can't go box to box, he can't track runners, he isn't physical enough to win aerial duos or tackles and his aging legs can't manoeuvre him into the dangerous positions he was once able to take up to score the great goals he was once able to.

Whittingham has been a great servant and I will forever thank him for all the great memories he has given us. But if Slade sticks to his 4-4-2 system, Whittingham should continue to be nothing more than a squad player from now onwards.

Great post and a million % spot on. The guy is just a liability, as we saw with the equalising goal against Burnley last week;even a Sunday League parks player would have at least made some effort to have stopped the cross into the box. Good player in his day but times move on; even Pele couldn't play these days!

The problem you have is that you can't say the truth on this forum because for many who are in love with Whittingham he is a "God" and they would have preferred City had lost without him in the team today. If its City or Whittingham then for some he would always get the vote.

As you said the stats don't lie and I've never been a Slade supporter but he's gained a lot of credit from me for his Eureka moment today.

There are players in our squad who can make up for Whitt's shortfalls (tackling etc) but no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham does however.

I like Ralls but to mind he's being fronted as a great player by the Whittingham haters who've infested this bored for years.

There are players in our squad who can make up for Whitt's shortfalls (tackling etc) but no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham does however.

I like Ralls but to mind he's being fronted as a great player by the Whittingham haters who've infested this bored for years.

No disrespect meant as I have always appreciated Whitts and he will go down as a legend but i think you meant to say 'no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham DID however'

Without Peter Whittingham the past 2 seasons, the stats are as follows:

Played 5
Won 5
Scored 13

Some would say Peter Whittingham is a Cardiff City legend from all the seasons of service he's given us, giving us some incredible goals and performances. But the stats these past 2 seasons tells the story.

Opposing teams with more pace, power and energy get the better of us with an aging Whittingham in the centre. As soon as I read the team sheet today seeing Whittingham was dropped, I was more positive we would win today.

Whittingham's fans would comment on his set piece delivery, but Ralls and Pilkington's set piece deliveries are more than good enough. We also overly rely on Whittingham's set pieces when he's playing, because when Whittingham's on the pitch, we lack the pace and dynamism to open up the opposition during open play. We have scored 13 goals in the last 5 league games without Whittingham in the team.

With Slade's 4-4-2 system, Whittingham will always be struggling now. He can't go box to box, he can't track runners, he isn't physical enough to win aerial duos or tackles and his aging legs can't manoeuvre him into the dangerous positions he was once able to take up to score the great goals he was once able to.

Whittingham has been a great servant and I will forever thank him for all the great memories he has given us. But if Slade sticks to his 4-4-2 system, Whittingham should continue to be nothing more than a squad player from now onwards.

Totally perfect post without slating whittlingham which some clowns do, be a great squad player but your correct in all you say

There are players in our squad who can make up for Whitt's shortfalls (tackling etc) but no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham does however.

I like Ralls but to mind he's being fronted as a great player by the Whittingham haters who've infested this bored for years.

Spot on. I like Ralls but he's being made out to be the next Stephen Gerrard by the Whitts haters.

Ralls is an out and out CM, Whitts isn't. The problem started when Ole started plying him CM in a 442 with Noone and Deahli out wide.

Malky did have other players to make up his shortfalls and played him in roving role that later was a set 4141

Slade doesn't do anything else other than a 442 and if we continue with 2 real wingers especially Noone we will get over run as soon as an opposing team play anything remotely modern.

There are players in our squad who can make up for Whitt's shortfalls (tackling etc) but no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham does however.

I like Ralls but to mind he's being fronted as a great player by the Whittingham haters who've infested this bored for years.

Spot on. I like Ralls but he's being made out to be the next Stephen Gerrard by the Whitts haters.

Got to laugh at the post that label posters who still rate Whitts as "in love with him" and think he's "God" and would "Rather see us lose when Whitts isn't playing"

How can City fans turn on their own so quickly? Whitts has been and still is a fantastic servant to Cardiff and some still appreciate a good footballer when they see one.

Ralls deserves his chance but Whitts can still do a job for us also.

There are players in our squad who can make up for Whitt's shortfalls (tackling etc) but no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham does however.

I like Ralls but to mind he's being fronted as a great player by the Whittingham haters who've infested this bored for years.

Spot on. I like Ralls but he's being made out to be the next Stephen Gerrard by the Whitts haters.

Got to laugh at the post that label posters who still rate Whitts as "in love with him" and think he's "God" and would "Rather see us lose when Whitts isn't playing"

How can City fans turn on their own so quickly? Whitts has been and still is a fantastic servant to Cardiff and some still appreciate a good footballer when they see one.

Ralls deserves his chance but Whitts can still do a job for us also.

I'd have Whitts and Ralls in midfield with Gunnar (home) and Digi (away) personally.

There are players in our squad who can make up for Whitt's shortfalls (tackling etc) but no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham does however.

I like Ralls but to mind he's being fronted as a great player by the Whittingham haters who've infested this bored for years.

Spot on. I like Ralls but he's being made out to be the next Stephen Gerrard by the Whitts haters.

Got to laugh at the post that label posters who still rate Whitts as "in love with him" and think he's "God" and would "Rather see us lose when Whitts isn't playing"

How can City fans turn on their own so quickly? Whitts has been and still is a fantastic servant to Cardiff and some still appreciate a good footballer when they see one.

Ralls deserves his chance but Whitts can still do a job for us also.

f**k me thank God you're laughing for a change

There are players in our squad who can make up for Whitt's shortfalls (tackling etc) but no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham does however.

I like Ralls but to mind he's being fronted as a great player by the Whittingham haters who've infested this bored for years.

Spot on. I like Ralls but he's being made out to be the next Stephen Gerrard by the Whitts haters.

Got to laugh at the post that label posters who still rate Whitts as "in love with him" and think he's "God" and would "Rather see us lose when Whitts isn't playing"

How can City fans turn on their own so quickly? Whitts has been and still is a fantastic servant to Cardiff and some still appreciate a good footballer when they see one.

Ralls deserves his chance but Whitts can still do a job for us also.

f**k me thank God you're laughing for a change

Good one.

There are players in our squad who can make up for Whitt's shortfalls (tackling etc) but no other player in the squad can do what Whittingham does however.

I like Ralls but to mind he's being fronted as a great player by the Whittingham haters who've infested this bored for years.

Spot on. I like Ralls but he's being made out to be the next Stephen Gerrard by the Whitts haters.

Got to laugh at the post that label posters who still rate Whitts as "in love with him" and think he's "God" and would "Rather see us lose when Whitts isn't playing"

How can City fans turn on their own so quickly? Whitts has been and still is a fantastic servant to Cardiff and some still appreciate a good footballer when they see one.

Ralls deserves his chance but Whitts can still do a job for us also.

f**k me thank God you're laughing for a change

Good one.

Muchas Gracias

Without Peter Whittingham the past 2 seasons, the stats are as follows:

Played 5
Won 5
Scored 13

Some would say Peter Whittingham is a Cardiff City legend from all the seasons of service he's given us, giving us some incredible goals and performances. But the stats these past 2 seasons tells the story.

Opposing teams with more pace, power and energy get the better of us with an aging Whittingham in the centre. As soon as I read the team sheet today seeing Whittingham was dropped, I was more positive we would win today.

Whittingham's fans would comment on his set piece delivery, but Ralls and Pilkington's set piece deliveries are more than good enough. We also overly rely on Whittingham's set pieces when he's playing, because when Whittingham's on the pitch, we lack the pace and dynamism to open up the opposition during open play. We have scored 13 goals in the last 5 league games without Whittingham in the team.

With Slade's 4-4-2 system, Whittingham will always be struggling now. He can't go box to box, he can't track runners, he isn't physical enough to win aerial duos or tackles and his aging legs can't manoeuvre him into the dangerous positions he was once able to take up to score the great goals he was once able to.

Whittingham has been a great servant and I will forever thank him for all the great memories he has given us. But if Slade sticks to his 4-4-2 system, Whittingham should continue to be nothing more than a squad player from now onwards.

I agree with most of your post and Whitts has been overplayed these past few seasons by successive managers and needs a spell out of the side
You have quoted the five games we have won without him in the side over the last two seasons
Why have you failed to mention the amount of games we have won with him in the side over the same period
That part of your post is not a balanced view

Without Peter Whittingham the past 2 seasons, the stats are as follows:

Played 5
Won 5
Scored 13

Some would say Peter Whittingham is a Cardiff City legend from all the seasons of service he's given us, giving us some incredible goals and performances. But the stats these past 2 seasons tells the story.

Opposing teams with more pace, power and energy get the better of us with an aging Whittingham in the centre. As soon as I read the team sheet today seeing Whittingham was dropped, I was more positive we would win today.

Whittingham's fans would comment on his set piece delivery, but Ralls and Pilkington's set piece deliveries are more than good enough. We also overly rely on Whittingham's set pieces when he's playing, because when Whittingham's on the pitch, we lack the pace and dynamism to open up the opposition during open play. We have scored 13 goals in the last 5 league games without Whittingham in the team.

With Slade's 4-4-2 system, Whittingham will always be struggling now. He can't go box to box, he can't track runners, he isn't physical enough to win aerial duos or tackles and his aging legs can't manoeuvre him into the dangerous positions he was once able to take up to score the great goals he was once able to.

Whittingham has been a great servant and I will forever thank him for all the great memories he has given us. But if Slade sticks to his 4-4-2 system, Whittingham should continue to be nothing more than a squad player from now onwards.

I agree with most of your post and Whitts has been overplayed these past few seasons by successive managers and needs a spell out of the side
You have quoted the five games we have won without him in the side over the last two seasons
Why have you failed to mention the amount of games we have won with him in the side over the same period
That part of your post is not a balanced view

I agree about Whitts being overplayed and this has probably contributed to him looking jaded and off the pace. Hopefully he will return revitalised and get back to playing like his old self.

Regarding my post not being a balanced view, I can only go by our results and what I see. With Whittingham in the team, we get outplayed, struggle and drop points more often than not, especially in a basic 4-4-2 system away from home. The past 2 seasons, we have won all 5 games without Whittingham and overall, have looked more comfortable in those 5 games.

I don't see how my opinion on that is not a balanced view. I'm just giving an honest opinion on what I see, whether you agree or disagree.

since these posts we've played 4

Won -1 (last kick of the game)
draw - 1
Lost - 2

Its the system, Ralls and Gunnar got all the youth and athleticism to play the role, but they can't control the pace or possession,(Brum planned to invite us on) with so few bodied in the middle...

I hope Slade goes soon, its painful.

PS= Set play goals have dried up to

since these posts we've played 4

Won -1 (last kick of the game)
draw - 1
Lost - 2

Its the system, Ralls and Gunnar got all the youth and athleticism to play the role, but they can't control the pace or possession,(Brum planned to invite us on) with so few bodied in the middle...

I hope Slade goes soon, its painful.

PS= Set play goals have dried up to

Ralls delivery from set pieces haven't been very good the last few games, and he's also spending too much time picking up 5 yard passes from the centre backs.

since these posts we've played 4

Won -1 (last kick of the game)
draw - 1
Lost - 2

Its the system, Ralls and Gunnar got all the youth and athleticism to play the role, but they can't control the pace or possession,(Brum planned to invite us on) with so few bodied in the middle...

I hope Slade goes soon, its painful.

PS= Set play goals have dried up to

But anyone be can take a corner

I think we should start with Whitts or Dikgacoi behind the midfield 4 and push them further up field at the expense of Jones.

Surprised the boo boys haven't started Gunnar threads.