YMA O HYD

Caerdydd isn't traditionally a Welsh speaking place? That is wider off the mark than a Leo Fortune-West header (Sorry Leo)

Welsh was the main language in Cardiff from the 13th century right up to the Victorian era. Only in the last 150 years has English become the dominant language in Cardiff.

So to say that Cardiff isn't a traditionally Welsh place is completely wrong and a very very short sighted view of history. I can't blame you though, so many Welsh people do not know their history. For example, today is an important day in Welsh history:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-nort ... s-34019801

Personally, I believe Yma o Hyd is very relevant to us and every effort should be made to get the chant going today. I once heard it mumbled at a half empty Wales game and it sent shivers down my spine.

In a era where all stadiums look the same, all websites are the same, all kits are the same, I feel anything that can make us stand out a bit from the crowd should be promoted and celebrated.

2-1 Caerdydd heddiw (gyda llaw)

Caerdydd isn't traditionally a Welsh speaking place? That is wider off the mark than a Leo Fortune-West header (Sorry Leo)

Welsh was the main language in Cardiff from the 13th century right up to the Victorian era. Only in the last 150 years has English become the dominant language in Cardiff.

So to say that Cardiff isn't a traditionally Welsh place is completely wrong and a very very short sighted view of history. I can't blame you though, so many Welsh people do not know their history. For example, today is an important day in Welsh history:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-nort ... s-34019801

Personally, I believe Yma o Hyd is very relevant to us and every effort should be made to get the chant going today. I once heard it mumbled at a half empty Wales game and it sent shivers down my spine.

In a era where all stadiums look the same, all websites are the same, all kits are the same, I feel anything that can make us stand out a bit from the crowd should be promoted and celebrated.

You have just reaffirmed my point, not gone against it.

How can the Welsh language be a part of Cardiff City history and its fans history if you are telling me that the Welsh language died out before the club even existed? Come on now, you are scraping the barrel all in the name of creating a pretty shallow and meaningless sense of identity.

I understand your point regarding making us stand out, but unless its genuine and real - what is the point? Isnt that just the same as Tan and his changes believing it would make us stand out and be more marketable? The main flaw was that it wasnt real and nobody identified with it.

We are traditionally an English speaking club that is situated in a traditionally English speaking area since its inception. Whether it was a Welsh speaking area 150 years ago diesnt really come into it. So to try and create some sort of welsh speaking herritage for the club is just fake and try hard.

As I have already stated, the clubs that do have Welsh songs at their games are STILL Welsh speaking areas. It is part of their daily life and is spoken in and around the grounds by many week in week out, which is why it spills over into the terraces.

Lets stop trying to be something we are not. We have had enough fake history and forced tradition to last a life time. We have finally got our blue back, now lets exentuate what we are (pick and shovel) and not what some wish we were.

Anyone in 104/105 canton fancy starting this? I've tried in 106, doesn't seem to catch on

As much as people may like to believe, one idiot like me can't seem to get a song started There has to be a few people around them willing to carry it on

I admit, I can see your viewpoint and you have made some good points. It is nice to have a debate on here with someone who argues with logic!

In the end, we will have to agree to disgree as I believe that Cardiff City, being from Cardiff (the capital of Wales) has a 'Welsh'
tradition.

Maybe we should put more emphasis on our Scottish heritage and chant in Gaelic in thanks to Lord Ninian

For example, fairly strong rumours that the Ayatollah comes from Iran via a Welsh language band the day before an away game. (whether or not that is true, I have no idea!) Should we scrap that as we do not have a tradition of mourning the deaths of Iranian leaders?

I am aware I'm building straw men here.

I will also point out that I wouldn't releagte 'pick and shovel' at all. Have that as our main song, but still sing Men of Harlech and even Yma o Hyd. For me, the more songs, chants, drums, flares, flags the better as they help the team.

The ayotollah is a perfect example of spontanaity which then transcends into tradition. Rather than a pre concieved attempt to try and create one.

Identity is something that just happens.

heard this played at np rousing song let,s get this played at ccs asap love it

This will never happen.
And sing it in Welsh? Ridiculous.
Even with a full stadium in the Prem we couldn't sing Men Of Harlech and the words were put up for us!
Even the song which I consider to be belong to us and us alone - Little Pick & Shovel - is only sung occasionally and then, only by a handful.

Exactly

Caerdydd isn't traditionally a Welsh speaking place? That is wider off the mark than a Leo Fortune-West header (Sorry Leo)

Welsh was the main language in Cardiff from the 13th century right up to the Victorian era. Only in the last 150 years has English become the dominant language in Cardiff.

So to say that Cardiff isn't a traditionally Welsh place is completely wrong and a very very short sighted view of history. I can't blame you though, so many Welsh people do not know their history. For example, today is an important day in Welsh history:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-nort ... s-34019801

Personally, I believe Yma o Hyd is very relevant to us and every effort should be made to get the chant going today. I once heard it mumbled at a half empty Wales game and it sent shivers down my spine.

In a era where all stadiums look the same, all websites are the same, all kits are the same, I feel anything that can make us stand out a bit from the crowd should be promoted and celebrated.

You have just reaffirmed my point, not gone against it.

How can the Welsh language be a part of Cardiff City history and its fans history if you are telling me that the Welsh language died out before the club even existed? Come on now, you are scraping the barrel all in the name of creating a pretty shallow and meaningless sense of identity.

I understand your point regarding making us stand out, but unless its genuine and real - what is the point? Isnt that just the same as Tan and his changes believing it would make us stand out and be more marketable? The main flaw was that it wasnt real and nobody identified with it.

We are traditionally an English speaking club that is situated in a traditionally English speaking area since its inception. Whether it was a Welsh speaking area 150 years ago diesnt really come into it. So to try and create some sort of welsh speaking herritage for the club is just fake and try hard.

As I have already stated, the clubs that do have Welsh songs at their games are STILL Welsh speaking areas. It is part of their daily life and is spoken in and around the grounds by many week in week out, which is why it spills over into the terraces.

Lets stop trying to be something we are not. We have had enough fake history and forced tradition to last a life time. We have finally got our blue back, now lets exentuate what we are (pick and shovel) and not what some wish we were.

If anything, us speaking English is fake. We should all be speaking Welsh as we are in Wales like... It's people like you with that attitude that's killing the Welsh language. I can't understand Welsh people who are against the Welsh language. So what about the Welsh speaking element that want to sing Welsh songs at a Cardiff game?

Spot on Seanmogs I couldnt have put it better myself.
Wiltshireblue seems to repeat the same"shallow and meaningless" arguement in the vain hope that it will make him sound profound. However, continuous repetition of weak and fallacious comments on the nature of club identity does not make them any less weak and incorrect. Just as a simple illustration,I dont think that any of the chants and songs that we sang when I first started watching City are sung anymore, eg pick and shovel was nt sung! Pick and shovel is a decent chant during the game, as opposed a song to be played beforehand.

Unfortunately, Men of Harlech is a bit of a dirge and I think Yma o Hyd is a rousing song that gets the juices flowing. If Yma o hyd is played before each match - it will either prove to be an improvement on Men of Harlech or it wont. End of. Give it a try!

If anything, us speaking English is fake. We should all be speaking Welsh as we are in Wales like... It's people like you with that attitude that's killing the Welsh language. I can't understand Welsh people who are against the Welsh language. So what about the Welsh speaking element that want to sing Welsh songs at a Cardiff game?

Nothing fake about it, it is how we have naturally evolved socially. The same as the Irish dont speak Gaelic and as a resukt very rarely do you hear it on the terraces.

Spot on Seanmogs I couldnt have put it better myself.
Wiltshireblue seems to repeat the same"shallow and meaningless" arguement in the vain hope that it will make him sound profound. However, continuous repetition of weak and fallacious comments on the nature of club identity does not make them any less weak and incorrect. Just as a simple illustration,I dont think that any of the chants and songs that we sang when I first started watching City are sung anymore, eg pick and shovel was nt sung! Pick and shovel is a decent chant during the game, as opposed a song to be played beforehand.

Unfortunately, Men of Harlech is a bit of a dirge and I think Yma o Hyd is a rousing song that gets the juices flowing. If Yma o hyd is played before each match - it will either prove to be an improvement on Men of Harlech or it wont. End of. Give it a try!

Nothing profound about what I have said at all, it is all pretty obvious and backed up by actions and behaviour of our fans week on week. We are not Welsh speakers, dont have it as part of our daily lives, dont identify with it - so dont sing it. It really is that simple.

Its like being handed an italian phrase book and being told to learn a few lines to impress the ladies on a night out and potray a multi lingual intelect. If it is not genuine then everyone sees through it.

Spot on Seanmogs I couldnt have put it better myself.
Wiltshireblue seems to repeat the same"shallow and meaningless" arguement in the vain hope that it will make him sound profound. However, continuous repetition of weak and fallacious comments on the nature of club identity does not make them any less weak and incorrect. Just as a simple illustration,I dont think that any of the chants and songs that we sang when I first started watching City are sung anymore, eg pick and shovel was nt sung! Pick and shovel is a decent chant during the game, as opposed a song to be played beforehand.

Unfortunately, Men of Harlech is a bit of a dirge and I think Yma o Hyd is a rousing song that gets the juices flowing. If Yma o hyd is played before each match - it will either prove to be an improvement on Men of Harlech or it wont. End of. Give it a try!

Nothing profound about what I have said at all, it is all pretty obvious and backed up by actions and behaviour of our fans week on week. We are not Welsh speakers, dont have it as part of our daily lives, dont identify with it - so dont sing it. It really is that simple.

Its like being handed an italian phrase book and being told to learn a few lines to impress the ladies on a night out and potray a multi lingual intelect. If it is not genuine then everyone sees through it.

'If its not genuine then everyone sees through it.'

Not in your case apparently. The charade continues

Spot on Seanmogs I couldnt have put it better myself.
Wiltshireblue seems to repeat the same"shallow and meaningless" arguement in the vain hope that it will make him sound profound. However, continuous repetition of weak and fallacious comments on the nature of club identity does not make them any less weak and incorrect. Just as a simple illustration,I dont think that any of the chants and songs that we sang when I first started watching City are sung anymore, eg pick and shovel was nt sung! Pick and shovel is a decent chant during the game, as opposed a song to be played beforehand.

Unfortunately, Men of Harlech is a bit of a dirge and I think Yma o Hyd is a rousing song that gets the juices flowing. If Yma o hyd is played before each match - it will either prove to be an improvement on Men of Harlech or it wont. End of. Give it a try!

Nothing profound about what I have said at all, it is all pretty obvious and backed up by actions and behaviour of our fans week on week. We are not Welsh speakers, dont have it as part of our daily lives, dont identify with it - so dont sing it. It really is that simple.

Its like being handed an italian phrase book and being told to learn a few lines to impress the ladies on a night out and potray a multi lingual intelect. If it is not genuine then everyone sees through it.

'If its not genuine then everyone sees through it.'

Not in your case apparently. The charade continues

Yawn. (Thats not welsh btw)

Spot on Seanmogs I couldnt have put it better myself.
Wiltshireblue seems to repeat the same"shallow and meaningless" arguement in the vain hope that it will make him sound profound. However, continuous repetition of weak and fallacious comments on the nature of club identity does not make them any less weak and incorrect. Just as a simple illustration,I dont think that any of the chants and songs that we sang when I first started watching City are sung anymore, eg pick and shovel was nt sung! Pick and shovel is a decent chant during the game, as opposed a song to be played beforehand.

Unfortunately, Men of Harlech is a bit of a dirge and I think Yma o Hyd is a rousing song that gets the juices flowing. If Yma o hyd is played before each match - it will either prove to be an improvement on Men of Harlech or it wont. End of. Give it a try!

Nothing profound about what I have said at all, it is all pretty obvious and backed up by actions and behaviour of our fans week on week. We are not Welsh speakers, dont have it as part of our daily lives, dont identify with it - so dont sing it. It really is that simple.

Its like being handed an italian phrase book and being told to learn a few lines to impress the ladies on a night out and potray a multi lingual intelect. If it is not genuine then everyone sees through it.

But I am a Welsh speaker and I support Cardiff..... Would you believe it!!!!

Men of Harlech was sung properly in English on Saturday.

Spot on Seanmogs I couldnt have put it better myself.
Wiltshireblue seems to repeat the same"shallow and meaningless" arguement in the vain hope that it will make him sound profound. However, continuous repetition of weak and fallacious comments on the nature of club identity does not make them any less weak and incorrect. Just as a simple illustration,I dont think that any of the chants and songs that we sang when I first started watching City are sung anymore, eg pick and shovel was nt sung! Pick and shovel is a decent chant during the game, as opposed a song to be played beforehand.

Unfortunately, Men of Harlech is a bit of a dirge and I think Yma o Hyd is a rousing song that gets the juices flowing. If Yma o hyd is played before each match - it will either prove to be an improvement on Men of Harlech or it wont. End of. Give it a try!

Nothing profound about what I have said at all, it is all pretty obvious and backed up by actions and behaviour of our fans week on week. We are not Welsh speakers, dont have it as part of our daily lives, dont identify with it - so dont sing it. It really is that simple.

Its like being handed an italian phrase book and being told to learn a few lines to impress the ladies on a night out and potray a multi lingual intelect. If it is not genuine then everyone sees through it.

'If its not genuine then everyone sees through it.'

Not in your case apparently. The charade continues

Yawn. (Thats not welsh btw)

Celwyddog. (That is Welsh btw)

Spot on Seanmogs I couldnt have put it better myself.
Wiltshireblue seems to repeat the same"shallow and meaningless" arguement in the vain hope that it will make him sound profound. However, continuous repetition of weak and fallacious comments on the nature of club identity does not make them any less weak and incorrect. Just as a simple illustration,I dont think that any of the chants and songs that we sang when I first started watching City are sung anymore, eg pick and shovel was nt sung! Pick and shovel is a decent chant during the game, as opposed a song to be played beforehand.

Unfortunately, Men of Harlech is a bit of a dirge and I think Yma o Hyd is a rousing song that gets the juices flowing. If Yma o hyd is played before each match - it will either prove to be an improvement on Men of Harlech or it wont. End of. Give it a try!

Nothing profound about what I have said at all, it is all pretty obvious and backed up by actions and behaviour of our fans week on week. We are not Welsh speakers, dont have it as part of our daily lives, dont identify with it - so dont sing it. It really is that simple.

Its like being handed an italian phrase book and being told to learn a few lines to impress the ladies on a night out and potray a multi lingual intelect. If it is not genuine then everyone sees through it.

But I am a Welsh speaker and I support Cardiff..... Would you believe it!!!!

And as a result you are more than welcome to sing it, however the majority of fans arent - which is why the ones that insist on persisting with it are largely left on their own.

Celwyddog. (That is Welsh btw)

Cool bro.

Celwyddog. (That is Welsh btw)

Cool bro.

In da house mofo.

Innit blud

Innit blud

Aye probably.

At last.

Wiltshireblue ( ) yr gair olaf yw.........off (English).

Wiltshireblue ( ) yr gair olaf yw.........off (English).

If you dont like people telling you straight then dont post. I have been very polite and extremely patient.

Maybe its best you just go in a room on your own and wonder why nobody joins in these welsh songs, then there will be nobody to give you the obvious replies that you clearly dont want to hear.

As for it being in Welsh - so what? I comes from Llanrumney in Cairdiff

bottom or top shops m8?

Welsh is awesome. Welsh should be the first language throughout Wales and English should be learnt as a business language. I love Wales but cant stand England.

Welsh is awesome. Welsh should be the first language throughout Wales and English should be learnt as a business language. I love Wales but cant stand England.

I thought you were Cardiffian first, British second?

More flip flopping from the forum chameleon.

If anything, us speaking English is fake. We should all be speaking Welsh as we are in Wales like... It's people like you with that attitude that's killing the Welsh language. I can't understand Welsh people who are against the Welsh language. So what about the Welsh speaking element that want to sing Welsh songs at a Cardiff game?

Nothing fake about it, it is how we have naturally evolved socially. The same as the Irish dont speak Gaelic and as a resukt very rarely do you hear it on the terraces.

Bullshit. Ever heard of the Treachery of the Blue Books? You want to look it up.