' WE ARE GOING BACKWARDS '

Surely sales depend on success? Get relegated they drop (usually) promotion the go up! Of course if show intent in summer by good signings that will help, but seriously got no chance of keeping 75%of last seasons fans as we are not successful same will go for lot of clubs through out leagues!

Of course sales will drop, nobody is denying that Allan but to lose possibly 10,000 between two seasons is more than just a drop for crying out loud.

Something far more severe is wrong when you drop by approx 60%.

I think to many fans are throwing their toys out the pram after finally getting used to relative success. Some might not want to hear that including the OP but it's true. Just watch the Charlton match in red and tan as owner. We have had terrible owners but always a connection with the club, we have had a few terrible years both on and off the pitch snf that will naturally take its toll. While I agree with OP ideas that will not connect a lot of fans, somethings just take time to mend. I say it over and over, it's all about on the pitch. It's when it goes wrong people get fed up and all the things come out.

1. Get rid of all the red in and outside the stadium. It will help rid us of the rebrand bad feeling.
2. Give us back our pre rebrand badge - help restore our identity.
3. Play some attractive football!

Surely sales depend on success? Get relegated they drop (usually) promotion the go up! Of course if show intent in summer by good signings that will help, but seriously got no chance of keeping 75%of last seasons fans as we are not successful same will go for lot of clubs through out leagues!

Of course sales will drop, nobody is denying that Allan but to lose possibly 10,000 between two seasons is more than just a drop for crying out loud.

Something far more severe is wrong when you drop by approx 60%.

Probably right Carl but not surprising as football generally is suffering from lack of sales at ordinary clubs!
PS you paying for the coffee? As club on money saving mode.

He invited me so I better bloody not be

Mmmm can feel update coming soon after? And OK for some us mere mortals don't get invited!
ST sales will be about 8to 10k ?

I have renewed but I can understand why many fans gave up this season and have not renewed because they do not want to see boring, abysmal, dire football under a clueless manager.

Bring in a decent manager with 3/4 new signings and add 5-8k on the crowd straight away.

It's been the worst football seen at CCS/ Ninian Park for a decade, NQAT.

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

The club continues to go backwards because far too many things are done on a whim. The rebrand, managerial appointments, and player signings continue to be implemented without any real thought.

One of the reasons for the Jacks' success is that their board has a clear philosophy which they abide to at all levels, on and off the field.

If Tan is serious about rebuilding, he needs to overhaul the entire operation. We don't need expensive player signings. We need a clear indication that we are working to a sensible plan, ideally under the leadership of a manager that has experience at our current level. Slade's ludicrous appointment, like so many other decisions under Tan's ownership, should never have happened.

If we had a play off final, a cup final or a premiership campaign to help sell season tickets we would have thousands more. It's all about success.

What a legend Hef is. Took him to a few games when I was based at RAF Valley. Awesome guy.

I would like to see incentives for the away fans.

Half price tickets for certain matches, cheap coach travel......

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

The thing about debt Annis is that it's all relative. When your mate Sam took us on the amazing roller coaster ride the debt increased massively in relation to the value of the club and turnover. We simply couldn't sustain it. Don't forget he was also taking a wage out of the club for services to the club. He also was spending other people's money. We were in the dwang up to our ears. We never recovered and Riddler simply papered over the cracks with us being kept afloat by selling players and season tickets far into the future. The money ran out and we were literally screwed. The culmination of years of mis management meant we owed money to companies, football clubs and most importantly HMRC. VT took us over and yes the debt has increased. But in proportion to turnover and value of the club we aren't screwed. Plus the debt is to one man who is our owner. Crucially it's not to external companies and most importantly not to HMRC.

If we are no longer losing money due to the cost cutting I think the future is brighter than it has been. Certainly since Black Friday.

I can remember when the fans and stewards was friends. Thats long gone now
Eddiep with some great points i agree with there

i cant see summer signings,making fans buy season tickets either,

most if not all reasons stated here are relevant probably to large percentage of other clubs in football league!
and ones seeing upturn in sales are of course successful at present!

Just start going to games and support the team ffs! True fans here will go and support the team through the bad times and the good times, were not going to be winning games with no support and no atmosphere, but I bet you will all jump on the bandwagon if were winning but we can only do this if we all make an atmosphere at the CCS stadium again!

a team that gives 100% and lose, i can support, a team thats giving 45% and just plodding a long, picking up there high paypackets are a no go,

Our hard core fans remember the atmosphere of Ninian Park .
Modern football is a turn off, no atmosphere and expensive prices.

Just start going to games and support the team ffs! True fans here will go and support the team through the bad times and the good times, were not going to be winning games with no support and no atmosphere, but I bet you will all jump on the bandwagon if were winning but we can only do this if we all make an atmosphere at the CCS stadium again!

Most sensible post on this thread ,and it's by a 11year old
Sometimes all the qestioning and demands for the ins and outs of our club overtake the real reason we support our club
It's because after going to your first game it's your club for ever
My grandson William who's 8 years old lives and breaths cardiff city
Does he need to know about debt or about policies and the like ,can he influence any of that ,no he can't
What he does is go to games scream and shout in support ,does the ayatollah all the time ,contributes to our clubs income ,and never moans win lose or draw ,but always asks gramps who we playing next ,and when ,and is it home or away
And he will tell you he also hates the jack bas..rds that for me is what it's about ,it was like that for me since 1966
And I know William will always be a city fan

"If we start winning they will come back"

True fans support their team through thick and thin

Id renew for 250 including my 11 year old.

We over think EVERYTHING.

I am aware that some people will want to use our current situation to lambast the current owner and board but there is nothing they have done that has not been reversed or could affect ST sales.

So the only reason for the ticket sales is ...... Success. We are just levelling out as to where we should be with lower ST sales and a large turnout on the day.

Whilst in the Championship and since the 2007/08 season we have had something to elate the fans and push sales to a HIGHER than expected average.

Everything below has had a cumulative effect, year on year, on ST sales.

2007/08 - FA cup Final
2008/09 - Play- Off Push (7th Place)
2009/10 - Play-Off Final & New CCS
2010/11 - Play-Off Semi Final
2011/12 - Play-Off Semi Final
2012/13 - Promoted as Champions
2013/14 - Premier League Season

2014/15 - Even this season was affected with ST's being bought while EPL survival was still possible and fans not wanting to miss out.

Face it, fans are a fickle bunch and only sustained success or Premier League football with have us maintain large attendance's.

The club haven't got a clue,they have no idea what the fans want,and they don't care,perfect example for me is the £200,000 they were given to help with away fans,most clubs spent it helping their own fans,Stoke give free away travel,cardiff spent most of it to help the away fans experience at the ccs,whilst we were treated like shit at their ground

IF THAT STATEMENT IS TRUE, IS IT ANY WONDER THAT FANS ARE TURNING AWAY IN THEIR DROVES?

It's time Our club started to treat it's own fans better and put our needs before the red carpet treatment of away fans. Anyone else agree? Teza

Just start going to games and support the team ffs! True fans here will go and support the team through the bad times and the good times, were not going to be winning games with no support and no atmosphere, but I bet you will all jump on the bandwagon if were winning but we can only do this if we all make an atmosphere at the CCS stadium again!

Well said that man Honestly reading this thread has been painful and you wonder why so many individuals want so much attention in exchange for their continued support?

The sooner fans adopt the attitude "what can I do for my club" rather than "what can my club can do for me" the sooner we will start resembling a properly run and supported football club.

All I can say is when this informous Coffee morning happens it should at least be a 2 way conversation.

We over think EVERYTHING.

I am aware that some people will want to use our current situation to lambast the current owner and board but there is nothing they have done that has not been reversed or could affect ST sales.

So the only reason for the ticket sales is ...... Success. We are just levelling out as to where we should be with lower ST sales and a large turnout on the day.

Whilst in the Championship and since the 2007/08 season we have had something to elate the fans and push sales to a HIGHER than expected average.

Everything below has had a cumulative effect, year on year, on ST sales.

2007/08 - FA cup Final
2008/09 - Play- Off Push (7th Place)
2009/10 - Play-Off Final & New CCS
2010/11 - Play-Off Semi Final
2011/12 - Play-Off Semi Final
2012/13 - Promoted as Champions
2013/14 - Premier League Season

2014/15 - Even this season was affected with ST's being bought while EPL survival was still possible and fans not wanting to miss out.

Face it, fans are a fickle bunch and only sustained success or Premier League football with have us maintain large attendance's.

I'm not agreeing with the OP but in fairness he has stated the club is going "backwards". Your very well put forward stats seem only to prove his point, after all we were in mid-table obscurity for the last thrid of last season with nothing to play for.

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

You cant really say that Annis before his money we were on the verge of liquidation.

I think its a simple case of value for money, previous years people have had a reason for buying a season ticket, IE A Cup final or a manager in place who people believes we would be pushing for promotion.

I don't think many have any faith in slade or that we will be going for promotion so don't feel the price is a fair one. I think quite a few expect a relegation battle.

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

You cant really say that Annis before his money we were on the verge of liquidation.

I think its a simple case of value for money, previous years people have had a reason for buying a season ticket, IE A Cup final or a manager in place who people believes we would be pushing for promotion.

I don't think many have any faith in slade or that we will be going for promotion so don't feel the price is a fair one. I think quite a few expect a relegation battle.

The year we drew Arsenal in the FA Cup which I think was the 2004/5 season, I remember there was 6,500 season ticket holders. I remember this because there was just enough of an allocation from Arsenal to give every season ticket holder a ticket for the game at Highbury, which turned out to be the last FA Cup tie played there.

The point being we had 6,500 season ticket holders then which was the best for many seasons. Apparently we have sold that many already and we all know there will be big take up in the summer, as there always is. So "going backwards" is subjective on where you place the starting point.

I'm not agreeing with the OP but in fairness he has stated the club is going "backwards". Your very well put forward stats seem only to prove his point, after all we were in mid-table obscurity for the last thrid of last season with nothing to play for.

It's not the "Going Backwards" statement that I am questioning as that is obvious. It's the reasons for it.

It is purely success on the pitch that pushes tickets sales.

There are a few thousand that react to positive changes in colour, seating configuration and dialogue with fans. However, the missing 10k will begin their return when the football is better and we are pressing for promotion again.

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

The thing about debt Annis is that it's all relative. When your mate Sam took us on the amazing roller coaster ride the debt increased massively in relation to the value of the club and turnover. We simply couldn't sustain it. Don't forget he was also taking a wage out of the club for services to the club. He also was spending other people's money. We were in the dwang up to our ears. We never recovered and Riddler simply papered over the cracks with us being kept afloat by selling players and season tickets far into the future. The money ran out and we were literally screwed. The culmination of years of mis management meant we owed money to companies, football clubs and most importantly HMRC. VT took us over and yes the debt has increased. But in proportion to turnover and value of the club we aren't screwed. Plus the debt is to one man who is our owner. Crucially it's not to external companies and most importantly not to HMRC.

If we are no longer losing money due to the cost cutting I think the future is brighter than it has been. Certainly since Black Friday.

For me this post is spot on but the Sam lovers wont agree and a big part also is people hate the fact that they are not in the know since Sam left

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

The thing about debt Annis is that it's all relative. When your mate Sam took us on the amazing roller coaster ride the debt increased massively in relation to the value of the club and turnover. We simply couldn't sustain it. Don't forget he was also taking a wage out of the club for services to the club. He also was spending other people's money. We were in the dwang up to our ears. We never recovered and Riddler simply papered over the cracks with us being kept afloat by selling players and season tickets far into the future. The money ran out and we were literally screwed. The culmination of years of mis management meant we owed money to companies, football clubs and most importantly HMRC. VT took us over and yes the debt has increased. But in proportion to turnover and value of the club we aren't screwed. Plus the debt is to one man who is our owner. Crucially it's not to external companies and most importantly not to HMRC.

If we are no longer losing money due to the cost cutting I think the future is brighter than it has been. Certainly since Black Friday.

Neil,
Sam did increase the debt on paper,but the players he left and the planning for the new stadium out ways that and I have proved this in the past,dozens of times. Sam left us 2 Divisions higher.
Sam made many mistakes and he admits it.
Also no one else would touch a 4th Division club in those days.


The worst mismanagement of all is Tan,by a mile,£170 million

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

The thing about debt Annis is that it's all relative. When your mate Sam took us on the amazing roller coaster ride the debt increased massively in relation to the value of the club and turnover. We simply couldn't sustain it. Don't forget he was also taking a wage out of the club for services to the club. He also was spending other people's money. We were in the dwang up to our ears. We never recovered and Riddler simply papered over the cracks with us being kept afloat by selling players and season tickets far into the future. The money ran out and we were literally screwed. The culmination of years of mis management meant we owed money to companies, football clubs and most importantly HMRC. VT took us over and yes the debt has increased. But in proportion to turnover and value of the club we aren't screwed. Plus the debt is to one man who is our owner. Crucially it's not to external companies and most importantly not to HMRC.

If we are no longer losing money due to the cost cutting I think the future is brighter than it has been. Certainly since Black Friday.

Neil,
Sam did increase the debt on paper,but the players he left and the planning for the new stadium out ways that and I have proved this in the past,dozens of times. Sam left us 2 Divisions higher.
Sam made many mistakes and he admits it.
Also no one else would touch a 4th Division club in those days.


The worst mismanagement of all is Tan,by a mile,£170 million

170m minus whatever the debt owed to sam? trouble is annis you can say all this now, but in reality can only judge tan if when he leaves! as we may not have any debt then?

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

The thing about debt Annis is that it's all relative. When your mate Sam took us on the amazing roller coaster ride the debt increased massively in relation to the value of the club and turnover. We simply couldn't sustain it. Don't forget he was also taking a wage out of the club for services to the club. He also was spending other people's money. We were in the dwang up to our ears. We never recovered and Riddler simply papered over the cracks with us being kept afloat by selling players and season tickets far into the future. The money ran out and we were literally screwed. The culmination of years of mis management meant we owed money to companies, football clubs and most importantly HMRC. VT took us over and yes the debt has increased. But in proportion to turnover and value of the club we aren't screwed. Plus the debt is to one man who is our owner. Crucially it's not to external companies and most importantly not to HMRC.

If we are no longer losing money due to the cost cutting I think the future is brighter than it has been. Certainly since Black Friday.

Neil,
Sam did increase the debt on paper,but the players he left and the planning for the new stadium out ways that and I have proved this in the past,dozens of times. Sam left us 2 Divisions higher.
Sam made many mistakes and he admits it.
Also no one else would touch a 4th Division club in those days.


The worst mismanagement of all is Tan,by a mile,£170 million

170m minus whatever the debt owed to sam? trouble is annis you can say all this now, but in reality can only judge tan if when he leaves! as we may not have any debt then?

Allan, yes minus £22million to Sam, leaves about £150 mill to Tan

Carl, The facts show that under Vincent Tan Our club is going backwards.

Debt has risen to a record high under Tan.
Crowds were well down this season.
Season ticket sales dropping drastically.
Club divided & fan base feeling the lowest they have for many years.

The club need to sort this out this Summer, just winning games will not get the crowds rushing back.

The thing about debt Annis is that it's all relative. When your mate Sam took us on the amazing roller coaster ride the debt increased massively in relation to the value of the club and turnover. We simply couldn't sustain it. Don't forget he was also taking a wage out of the club for services to the club. He also was spending other people's money. We were in the dwang up to our ears. We never recovered and Riddler simply papered over the cracks with us being kept afloat by selling players and season tickets far into the future. The money ran out and we were literally screwed. The culmination of years of mis management meant we owed money to companies, football clubs and most importantly HMRC. VT took us over and yes the debt has increased. But in proportion to turnover and value of the club we aren't screwed. Plus the debt is to one man who is our owner. Crucially it's not to external companies and most importantly not to HMRC.

If we are no longer losing money due to the cost cutting I think the future is brighter than it has been. Certainly since Black Friday.

Neil,
Sam did increase the debt on paper,but the players he left and the planning for the new stadium out ways that and I have proved this in the past,dozens of times. Sam left us 2 Divisions higher.
Sam made many mistakes and he admits it.
Also no one else would touch a 4th Division club in those days.


The worst mismanagement of all is Tan,by a mile,£170 million

Mate I totally agree. No one would have touched us in division 4. Many could have. We were available for a pittance.