More people should vote Plaid Cymru

If you want to improve the education of Welsh children don't waste their time learning Welsh. Teach them Spanish or Mandarin as both would be much more useful towards a global economy. Also I would suggest maths and English would me more helpful.

Norwegians learn Norwegian and English. Why can't the Welsh learn Welsh first, English second? Still no true rebuttal in this thread. Just ad hominem attacks and fallacies.

Hmm all this but who do you have as an Avitar ? An Englishman Hmmmmmm

Hmm all this but who do you have as an Avitar ? An Englishman Hmmmmmm

Peter Whittingham is not English. He's a bluebird aka a higher power!

I hope you like the idea of the Euro if you wish to become independent.

As we have seen around the EU, it is doing marvelously well.

http://www.welshindependence.net/p/busting-myths.html

Next...................

I hope you like the idea of the Euro if you wish to become independent.

As we have seen around the EU, it is doing marvelously well.

http://www.welshindependence.net/p/busting-myths.html

Next...................

Great linking of a totally neutral website hahahahaha. And a link that doesn't even answer the question.

If we started making ultimatums about leaving the union, Westminster would simply say we would not be able to carry over the pound. So what do we do then brains? Create a Welsh currency, with a picture of a sheep instead of a monarch on the front?.

Or take over the Euro and go down that yellow brick road.

With independence we would take our countries debts, which would be a fair section of the entire unions debt. How would we pay that off? Loans.

quote="maccydee"]

If you want to improve the education of Welsh children don't waste their time learning Welsh. Teach them Spanish or Mandarin as both would be much more useful towards a global economy. Also I would suggest maths and English would me more helpful.[/quote......

IMO the word BO!!OCKS springs to mind. All the research shows that teaching a second language at a young age is of great help to kids education and development.
So which language?
I am from Llanrumney and I was told when in Ball Road school that French and German were more imp with us joining the Common market etc. I dropped Welsh and chose French. Much as I like the French language I have only used pidgeon French for a couple of weeks in France!!
Yet in my 20s I decided to learn Welsh on the Wlpan course. Later I married a Welsh speaking girl and now have Welsh speaking kids. Welsh helps us to preserve our Welsh identity. It is sad that whether you speak Welsh or not largely depends on where you are born in Wales. Yet most of us are proud Welshmen. All kids should be taught Welsh. By not having the chance to speak Welsh you lose out on a lot. It is OUR country and OUR language. SUPPORT it!!
As for politics .....I am sceptical of all parties including Plaid Cymru.

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

Just today it has been announced that a tidal lagoon at Cardiff would produce enough electricity to satisfy the whole of Wales for 120 years. They also plan to build tidal lagoons at Swansea, Newport and Colwyn Bay so we do have the potential to generate huge amounts of money from those four projects alone. Also, I would rather trust the current crop at the WAG than any of the twats at Westminster who don't give a shit about Wales, have decimated our industrial base and replaced it with call centres and are now putting a huge financial squeeze on our public services by massively underfunding us and all because their butties who control the banks made gigantic fuck-ups for which the working classes of Wales and the rest of the UK are having to pay.

I want what you are smoking.

Thats 2 ad hominem attacks now. No true credible counter argument put forward.

Well let's start with making Welsh the official language? How would that help anything?

Plaid Cymru mismanage everything they get their useless hands on.

Like......?

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

Just today it has been announced that a tidal lagoon at Cardiff would produce enough electricity to satisfy the whole of Wales for 120 years. They also plan to build tidal lagoons at Swansea, Newport and Colwyn Bay so we do have the potential to generate huge amounts of money from those four projects alone. Also, I would rather trust the current crop at the WAG than any of the twats at Westminster who don't give a shit about Wales, have decimated our industrial base and replaced it with call centres and are now putting a huge financial squeeze on our public services by massively underfunding us and all because their butties who control the banks made gigantic fuck-ups for which the working classes of Wales and the rest of the UK are having to pay.

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

Just today it has been announced that a tidal lagoon at Cardiff would produce enough electricity to satisfy the whole of Wales for 120 years. They also plan to build tidal lagoons at Swansea, Newport and Colwyn Bay so we do have the potential to generate huge amounts of money from those four projects alone. Also, I would rather trust the current crop at the WAG than any of the twats at Westminster who don't give a shit about Wales, have decimated our industrial base and replaced it with call centres and are now putting a huge financial squeeze on our public services by massively underfunding us and all because their butties who control the banks made gigantic fuck-ups for which the working classes of Wales and the rest of the UK are having to pay.

So we let the UK as a whole fund these tidal lagoons and then as soon as they are completed devolve away from the UK and start flogging the electricity to England? Genius. Do we also devolve away from the national debt? you folks are living in cloud cuckoo, you want to have your cake and eat it. The fundamental structural problem with Wales is that a quarter of the workforce works for the public sector, this is far too high and as a result our structural deficit in Wales is considerably higher than the UK average. Giving that the UK is already running a deficit, an independent Wales would have to have a combination of heavy public funding cuts and significant tax rises just to balance the books, we would go the way of Ireland, Greece and Portugal.

Bring back the empire, problem solved.

I'd rather eat shit than vote for that bunch of parochial bigots

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

Just today it has been announced that a tidal lagoon at Cardiff would produce enough electricity to satisfy the whole of Wales for 120 years. They also plan to build tidal lagoons at Swansea, Newport and Colwyn Bay so we do have the potential to generate huge amounts of money from those four projects alone. Also, I would rather trust the current crop at the WAG than any of the twats at Westminster who don't give a shit about Wales, have decimated our industrial base and replaced it with call centres and are now putting a huge financial squeeze on our public services by massively underfunding us and all because their butties who control the banks made gigantic fuck-ups for which the working classes of Wales and the rest of the UK are having to pay.

So we let the UK as a whole fund these tidal lagoons and then as soon as they are completed devolve away from the UK and start flogging the electricity to England? Genius. Do we also devolve away from the national debt? you folks are living in cloud cuckoo, you want to have your cake and eat it. The fundamental structural problem with Wales is that a quarter of the workforce works for the public sector, this is far too high and as a result our structural deficit in Wales is considerably higher than the UK average. Giving that the UK is already running a deficit, an independent Wales would have to have a combination of heavy public funding cuts and significant tax rises just to balance the books, we would go the way of Ireland, Greece and Portugal.

It will no doubt be mostly, if not all, private money funding these projects genius and if it was government money so what? London governments for centuries plundered all of our natural resources which helped them to create the wealth to build ships and armies to conquer half the world in order to steal the resources from lots of other helpless countries, and when we ran out of natural resources they fucked us off, so don't feel sorry for the twats. Also, what some Westminster lovers need to wise up to is that one day when the Scots do eventually go for independence, (and next time they won't be conned by the London scaremongering) which might not be as far away as many think, the whole UK will tumble like a pack of cards, and when that day comes Wales needs to be ready for it. English nationalism is rising and when the general population gets a whiff of the fact that they get less than we do in public expenditure per head of population they will stop subsidising us altogether and more than likely kick us into touch. We need to be ready for that eventuality by radically improving our economy in Wales because at the moment our tax take is so weak we would be unable to sustain things as they are now, and things aint exactly brilliant at the moment. The English need Scotland for it's oil, even though that is diminishing, but the moment the Scots decide to leave our days will be numbered. The only government that is going to invest in Wales and get our economy moving is a Welsh Government, preferably led by Plaid Cymru because they are the only party that truly cares about Wales. People should take the time to go onto their website and see what plans they have for Wales. They are detailed and show what is possible if everyone pulls together. Unfortunately most people are too small minded and can't be bothered to take their heads out of their arses and would rather believe the old clap trap that Plaid will make us all learn Welsh and they only care about Welsh speaking Wales and the farmers. It's easier to spout that rubbish than take the time to read and learn a few things...like for instance there is an alternative to London rule which has put Wales in the mess we find ourselves in today.

I'd rather eat shit than vote for that bunch of parochial bigots

Who you voting for?

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

Just today it has been announced that a tidal lagoon at Cardiff would produce enough electricity to satisfy the whole of Wales for 120 years. They also plan to build tidal lagoons at Swansea, Newport and Colwyn Bay so we do have the potential to generate huge amounts of money from those four projects alone. Also, I would rather trust the current crop at the WAG than any of the twats at Westminster who don't give a shit about Wales, have decimated our industrial base and replaced it with call centres and are now putting a huge financial squeeze on our public services by massively underfunding us and all because their butties who control the banks made gigantic fuck-ups for which the working classes of Wales and the rest of the UK are having to pay.

So we let the UK as a whole fund these tidal lagoons and then as soon as they are completed devolve away from the UK and start flogging the electricity to England? Genius. Do we also devolve away from the national debt? you folks are living in cloud cuckoo, you want to have your cake and eat it. The fundamental structural problem with Wales is that a quarter of the workforce works for the public sector, this is far too high and as a result our structural deficit in Wales is considerably higher than the UK average. Giving that the UK is already running a deficit, an independent Wales would have to have a combination of heavy public funding cuts and significant tax rises just to balance the books, we would go the way of Ireland, Greece and Portugal.

It will no doubt be mostly, if not all, private money funding these projects genius and if it was government money so what? London governments for centuries plundered all of our natural resources which helped them to create the wealth to build ships and armies to conquer half the world in order to steal the resources from lots of other helpless countries, and when we ran out of natural resources they fucked us off, so don't feel sorry for the twats. Also, what some Westminster lovers need to wise up to is that one day when the Scots do eventually go for independence, (and next time they won't be conned by the London scaremongering) which might not be as far away as many think, the whole UK will tumble like a pack of cards, and when that day comes Wales needs to be ready for it. English nationalism is rising and when the general population gets a whiff of the fact that they get less than we do in public expenditure per head of population they will stop subsidising us altogether and more than likely kick us into touch. We need to be ready for that eventuality by radically improving our economy in Wales because at the moment our tax take is so weak we would be unable to sustain things as they are now, and things aint exactly brilliant at the moment. The English need Scotland for it's oil, even though that is diminishing, but the moment the Scots decide to leave our days will be numbered. The only government that is going to invest in Wales and get our economy moving is a Welsh Government, preferably led by Plaid Cymru because they are the only party that truly cares about Wales. People should take the time to go onto their website and see what plans they have for Wales. They are detailed and show what is possible if everyone pulls together. Unfortunately most people are too small minded and can't be bothered to take their heads out of their arses and would rather believe the old clap trap that Plaid will make us all learn Welsh and they only care about Welsh speaking Wales and the farmers. It's easier to spout that rubbish than take the time to read and learn a few things...like for instance there is an alternative to London rule which has put Wales in the mess we find ourselves in today.

I am afraid that the idea that private money funds these tidal lagoons and then simply relinquishes the ownership to Wales is not going to happen. Like the Severn crossings the running rights are held be a 3rd party for a set period of time meaning Wales will get nothing other than perhaps below market value energy prices for a while. And if the british government fund these barrages do you not think they might build into any contracts that the UK treasury is the beneficiary for a certain term?

The idea of simply "f**k em, they have been plundering their way around the world for centuries" looks to me like an attitude of the little guy, the ankle snapping Jack Russell. You say small minded............... I say touché.

quote="maccydee"]

If you want to improve the education of Welsh children don't waste their time learning Welsh. Teach them Spanish or Mandarin as both would be much more useful towards a global economy. Also I would suggest maths and English would me more helpful.[/quote......

IMO the word BO!!OCKS springs to mind. All the research shows that teaching a second language at a young age is of great help to kids education and development.
So which language?
I am from Llanrumney and I was told when in Ball Road school that French and German were more imp with us joining the Common market etc. I dropped Welsh and chose French. Much as I like the French language I have only used pidgeon French for a couple of weeks in France!!
Yet in my 20s I decided to learn Welsh on the Wlpan course. Later I married a Welsh speaking girl and now have Welsh speaking kids. Welsh helps us to preserve our Welsh identity. It is sad that whether you speak Welsh or not largely depends on where you are born in Wales. Yet most of us are proud Welshmen. All kids should be taught Welsh. By not having the chance to speak Welsh you lose out on a lot. It is OUR country and OUR language. SUPPORT it!!
As for politics .....I am sceptical of all parties including Plaid Cymru.

Fully agree about the language. It is our heritage and identity. Not coal mining or playing rugby. They are part of the social media elite version of our nations history that have been around for only 100-200years and have no relevance to our country.

Im very tempted to vote for Plaid Cymru, but im not convinced about the leadership of Leanne Wood I much prefer the always impressive Elfyn Llwyd.

The english have robbed & pillaged Wales for far to long & its about time we stood up for ourselves because these mainstream political parties are not interested in Wales.

Don't know if anyone has seen this excellent documentry on how valuable a commodity water is?.

Some interesting facts on Water like it takes on average 750,000 litres of wate to manufacture an average car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1a3tjqQiBI

Im very tempted to vote for Plaid Cymru, but im not convinced about the leadership of Leanne Wood I much prefer the always impressive Elfyn Llwyd.

The english have robbed & pillaged Wales for far to long & its about time we stood up for ourselves because these mainstream political parties are not interested in Wales.

Don't know if anyone has seen this excellent documentry on how valuable a commodity water is?.

Some interesting facts on Water like it takes on average 750,000 litres of wate to manufacture an average car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1a3tjqQiBI

Excellent post and I agree with you on Elfyn Llwyd too. I'll definitely be voting for them. I've seen that disgusting Westminster elite neglect Wales in my short life so I'm guessing for others older than me its even worse. Yet I've moved to England and I've seen development in the South East happening all the time. They only care about London, the fringe who commute in and the South East where all their country homes are when they want to retreat from the city. Couldn't care less about Wales, the North or Scotland.

Also, on the water as a commodity comment.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101789481
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/06/water.asp

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

Just today it has been announced that a tidal lagoon at Cardiff would produce enough electricity to satisfy the whole of Wales for 120 years. They also plan to build tidal lagoons at Swansea, Newport and Colwyn Bay so we do have the potential to generate huge amounts of money from those four projects alone. Also, I would rather trust the current crop at the WAG than any of the twats at Westminster who don't give a shit about Wales, have decimated our industrial base and replaced it with call centres and are now putting a huge financial squeeze on our public services by massively underfunding us and all because their butties who control the banks made gigantic fuck-ups for which the working classes of Wales and the rest of the UK are having to pay.

So we let the UK as a whole fund these tidal lagoons and then as soon as they are completed devolve away from the UK and start flogging the electricity to England? Genius. Do we also devolve away from the national debt? you folks are living in cloud cuckoo, you want to have your cake and eat it. The fundamental structural problem with Wales is that a quarter of the workforce works for the public sector, this is far too high and as a result our structural deficit in Wales is considerably higher than the UK average. Giving that the UK is already running a deficit, an independent Wales would have to have a combination of heavy public funding cuts and significant tax rises just to balance the books, we would go the way of Ireland, Greece and Portugal.

It will no doubt be mostly, if not all, private money funding these projects genius and if it was government money so what? London governments for centuries plundered all of our natural resources which helped them to create the wealth to build ships and armies to conquer half the world in order to steal the resources from lots of other helpless countries, and when we ran out of natural resources they fucked us off, so don't feel sorry for the twats. Also, what some Westminster lovers need to wise up to is that one day when the Scots do eventually go for independence, (and next time they won't be conned by the London scaremongering) which might not be as far away as many think, the whole UK will tumble like a pack of cards, and when that day comes Wales needs to be ready for it. English nationalism is rising and when the general population gets a whiff of the fact that they get less than we do in public expenditure per head of population they will stop subsidising us altogether and more than likely kick us into touch. We need to be ready for that eventuality by radically improving our economy in Wales because at the moment our tax take is so weak we would be unable to sustain things as they are now, and things aint exactly brilliant at the moment. The English need Scotland for it's oil, even though that is diminishing, but the moment the Scots decide to leave our days will be numbered. The only government that is going to invest in Wales and get our economy moving is a Welsh Government, preferably led by Plaid Cymru because they are the only party that truly cares about Wales. People should take the time to go onto their website and see what plans they have for Wales. They are detailed and show what is possible if everyone pulls together. Unfortunately most people are too small minded and can't be bothered to take their heads out of their arses and would rather believe the old clap trap that Plaid will make us all learn Welsh and they only care about Welsh speaking Wales and the farmers. It's easier to spout that rubbish than take the time to read and learn a few things...like for instance there is an alternative to London rule which has put Wales in the mess we find ourselves in today.

I am afraid that the idea that private money funds these tidal lagoons and then simply relinquishes the ownership to Wales is not going to happen. Like the Severn crossings the running rights are held be a 3rd party for a set period of time meaning Wales will get nothing other than perhaps below market value energy prices for a while. And if the british government fund these barrages do you not think they might build into any contracts that the UK treasury is the beneficiary for a certain term?

The idea of simply "f**k em, they have been plundering their way around the world for centuries" looks to me like an attitude of the little guy, the ankle snapping Jack Russell. You say small minded............... I say touché.

We are the little guy. Nothing wrong with that. Also these tidal lagoons are for 120 years so Wales will benefit from them because governments will use private money to get them constructed but will be smart enough to ensure that the country will benefit too. You are naïve to think otherwise so you can stick your touché up your tush. Only joking..no offence like. And by the way I'd like to know your views on getting Wales' economy up to scratch so that if the English ever get fed up of subsidising us we are able to fund our own public services. Even Plaid Cymru admits we are a long way from that at the moment but we should all be working towards that because it's the sensible thing to do and morally we should be looking to fund ourselves somehow rather than relying on other people. Or are you happy to take their cash forever?

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

Just today it has been announced that a tidal lagoon at Cardiff would produce enough electricity to satisfy the whole of Wales for 120 years. They also plan to build tidal lagoons at Swansea, Newport and Colwyn Bay so we do have the potential to generate huge amounts of money from those four projects alone. Also, I would rather trust the current crop at the WAG than any of the twats at Westminster who don't give a shit about Wales, have decimated our industrial base and replaced it with call centres and are now putting a huge financial squeeze on our public services by massively underfunding us and all because their butties who control the banks made gigantic fuck-ups for which the working classes of Wales and the rest of the UK are having to pay.

So we let the UK as a whole fund these tidal lagoons and then as soon as they are completed devolve away from the UK and start flogging the electricity to England? Genius. Do we also devolve away from the national debt? you folks are living in cloud cuckoo, you want to have your cake and eat it. The fundamental structural problem with Wales is that a quarter of the workforce works for the public sector, this is far too high and as a result our structural deficit in Wales is considerably higher than the UK average. Giving that the UK is already running a deficit, an independent Wales would have to have a combination of heavy public funding cuts and significant tax rises just to balance the books, we would go the way of Ireland, Greece and Portugal.

It will no doubt be mostly, if not all, private money funding these projects genius and if it was government money so what? London governments for centuries plundered all of our natural resources which helped them to create the wealth to build ships and armies to conquer half the world in order to steal the resources from lots of other helpless countries, and when we ran out of natural resources they fucked us off, so don't feel sorry for the twats. Also, what some Westminster lovers need to wise up to is that one day when the Scots do eventually go for independence, (and next time they won't be conned by the London scaremongering) which might not be as far away as many think, the whole UK will tumble like a pack of cards, and when that day comes Wales needs to be ready for it. English nationalism is rising and when the general population gets a whiff of the fact that they get less than we do in public expenditure per head of population they will stop subsidising us altogether and more than likely kick us into touch. We need to be ready for that eventuality by radically improving our economy in Wales because at the moment our tax take is so weak we would be unable to sustain things as they are now, and things aint exactly brilliant at the moment. The English need Scotland for it's oil, even though that is diminishing, but the moment the Scots decide to leave our days will be numbered. The only government that is going to invest in Wales and get our economy moving is a Welsh Government, preferably led by Plaid Cymru because they are the only party that truly cares about Wales. People should take the time to go onto their website and see what plans they have for Wales. They are detailed and show what is possible if everyone pulls together. Unfortunately most people are too small minded and can't be bothered to take their heads out of their arses and would rather believe the old clap trap that Plaid will make us all learn Welsh and they only care about Welsh speaking Wales and the farmers. It's easier to spout that rubbish than take the time to read and learn a few things...like for instance there is an alternative to London rule which has put Wales in the mess we find ourselves in today.

I am afraid that the idea that private money funds these tidal lagoons and then simply relinquishes the ownership to Wales is not going to happen. Like the Severn crossings the running rights are held be a 3rd party for a set period of time meaning Wales will get nothing other than perhaps below market value energy prices for a while. And if the british government fund these barrages do you not think they might build into any contracts that the UK treasury is the beneficiary for a certain term?

The idea of simply "f**k em, they have been plundering their way around the world for centuries" looks to me like an attitude of the little guy, the ankle snapping Jack Russell. You say small minded............... I say touché.

We are the little guy. Nothing wrong with that. Also these tidal lagoons are for 120 years so Wales will benefit from them because governments will use private money to get them constructed but will be smart enough to ensure that the country will benefit too. You are naïve to think otherwise so you can stick your touché up your tush. Only joking..no offence like. And by the way I'd like to know your views on getting Wales' economy up to scratch so that if the English ever get fed up of subsidising us we are able to fund our own public services. Even Plaid Cymru admits we are a long way from that at the moment but we should all be working towards that because it's the sensible thing to do and morally we should be looking to fund ourselves somehow rather than relying on other people. Or are you happy to take their cash forever?

"smart enough to ensure that the country will benefit too" but not smart enough to adjust or close a £500k unused airport bus service. It is the small things that i see as a pretty strong indicator in what a shower shit it would become if the WAG had even more power. I have to be honest given the state of Wales as is I don't really have a suggestion of what to do if England kick us to the kerb, we are far too reliant at this time on the private service sector in London (including those b*stard bankers). Until there is significant regional economical development i would say we are in no position to push for separation in any meaningful way from England, we simply would be insolvent before long. I am happy to be part of a United Kingdom as a think this gives us a better buffer in harsh times. I cant say that PC are the right guys as for start they have just announced that they want to block any prospects of fracking in the Vale, this is reactionary and could in fact bring about the self sufficient Wales you speak of.

CYMRU AM BYTH!!!

CYMRU AM BYTH!!!

With Plaid Cymru "Wedyn byddai Cymru wedi rhannu am byth"

80 years too late.......

The rest of the Uk is there to service the London banking sector.

An independant Wales is only a pipe dream of a few nationalists, it probaly carries as much support as the free Cornwall brigade.

Plaids will gain less votes than UKIP which is an embarassement. Yes they will get thier usual MP in Angelsy and west Wales. Leanne Wood is possibly the least effective party leader I have seen. Is she standing for a Westminster seat ?

Leanne Wood "ineffective", you say!

I'm not a Plaid supporter, but I do rate individuals in their own right and I think if we could have a Parliament of politicians we actually respected (i.e. cross-party) we would have a Government to be proud of!

I think you need to sit down with Leanne Wood and talk to her. She may just surprise you (positively) IF you are prepared to listen before responding

I thought you were being serious until - "small countries with well managed economies". The WAG can't even run an airport bus service. One thing that may help the welsh economy is if you bottle up whatever you have been taking and flog this to pessimists like me so I can see the world in some weird idealistic haze like you.

I wouldn't trust the current crop of WAG members at all. We have no real natural resources that are viable, even Scotland with their oil wealth are going to find it troubling now that the oil price has dropped.

Just today it has been announced that a tidal lagoon at Cardiff would produce enough electricity to satisfy the whole of Wales for 120 years. They also plan to build tidal lagoons at Swansea, Newport and Colwyn Bay so we do have the potential to generate huge amounts of money from those four projects alone. Also, I would rather trust the current crop at the WAG than any of the twats at Westminster who don't give a shit about Wales, have decimated our industrial base and replaced it with call centres and are now putting a huge financial squeeze on our public services by massively underfunding us and all because their butties who control the banks made gigantic fuck-ups for which the working classes of Wales and the rest of the UK are having to pay.

So we let the UK as a whole fund these tidal lagoons and then as soon as they are completed devolve away from the UK and start flogging the electricity to England? Genius. Do we also devolve away from the national debt? you folks are living in cloud cuckoo, you want to have your cake and eat it. The fundamental structural problem with Wales is that a quarter of the workforce works for the public sector, this is far too high and as a result our structural deficit in Wales is considerably higher than the UK average. Giving that the UK is already running a deficit, an independent Wales would have to have a combination of heavy public funding cuts and significant tax rises just to balance the books, we would go the way of Ireland, Greece and Portugal.

It will no doubt be mostly, if not all, private money funding these projects genius and if it was government money so what? London governments for centuries plundered all of our natural resources which helped them to create the wealth to build ships and armies to conquer half the world in order to steal the resources from lots of other helpless countries, and when we ran out of natural resources they fucked us off, so don't feel sorry for the twats. Also, what some Westminster lovers need to wise up to is that one day when the Scots do eventually go for independence, (and next time they won't be conned by the London scaremongering) which might not be as far away as many think, the whole UK will tumble like a pack of cards, and when that day comes Wales needs to be ready for it. English nationalism is rising and when the general population gets a whiff of the fact that they get less than we do in public expenditure per head of population they will stop subsidising us altogether and more than likely kick us into touch. We need to be ready for that eventuality by radically improving our economy in Wales because at the moment our tax take is so weak we would be unable to sustain things as they are now, and things aint exactly brilliant at the moment. The English need Scotland for it's oil, even though that is diminishing, but the moment the Scots decide to leave our days will be numbered. The only government that is going to invest in Wales and get our economy moving is a Welsh Government, preferably led by Plaid Cymru because they are the only party that truly cares about Wales. People should take the time to go onto their website and see what plans they have for Wales. They are detailed and show what is possible if everyone pulls together. Unfortunately most people are too small minded and can't be bothered to take their heads out of their arses and would rather believe the old clap trap that Plaid will make us all learn Welsh and they only care about Welsh speaking Wales and the farmers. It's easier to spout that rubbish than take the time to read and learn a few things...like for instance there is an alternative to London rule which has put Wales in the mess we find ourselves in today.

I am afraid that the idea that private money funds these tidal lagoons and then simply relinquishes the ownership to Wales is not going to happen. Like the Severn crossings the running rights are held be a 3rd party for a set period of time meaning Wales will get nothing other than perhaps below market value energy prices for a while. And if the british government fund these barrages do you not think they might build into any contracts that the UK treasury is the beneficiary for a certain term?

The idea of simply "f**k em, they have been plundering their way around the world for centuries" looks to me like an attitude of the little guy, the ankle snapping Jack Russell. You say small minded............... I say touché.

We are the little guy. Nothing wrong with that. Also these tidal lagoons are for 120 years so Wales will benefit from them because governments will use private money to get them constructed but will be smart enough to ensure that the country will benefit too. You are naïve to think otherwise so you can stick your touché up your tush. Only joking..no offence like. And by the way I'd like to know your views on getting Wales' economy up to scratch so that if the English ever get fed up of subsidising us we are able to fund our own public services. Even Plaid Cymru admits we are a long way from that at the moment but we should all be working towards that because it's the sensible thing to do and morally we should be looking to fund ourselves somehow rather than relying on other people. Or are you happy to take their cash forever?

"smart enough to ensure that the country will benefit too" but not smart enough to adjust or close a £500k unused airport bus service. It is the small things that i see as a pretty strong indicator in what a shower shit it would become if the WAG had even more power. I have to be honest given the state of Wales as is I don't really have a suggestion of what to do if England kick us to the kerb, we are far too reliant at this time on the private service sector in London (including those b*stard bankers). Until there is significant regional economical development i would say we are in no position to push for separation in any meaningful way from England, we simply would be insolvent before long. I am happy to be part of a United Kingdom as a think this gives us a better buffer in harsh times. I cant say that PC are the right guys as for start they have just announced that they want to block any prospects of fracking in the Vale, this is reactionary and could in fact bring about the self sufficient Wales you speak of.

Look, all governments make bad decisions. None worse than Westminster, but given the fact that they have had to endure huge cuts to their budget and they have virtually no economic levers to use I think the Welsh Government have made more good decisions than bad ones. Personally I believe that Plaid Cymru are more in touch with Welsh people than the other parties in Wales simply because the other parties all have to answer to their London HQs whereas Plaid are only answerable to the people of Wales. Lots of people say that Leanne Wood is too lightweight, and to be honest she probably isn't as clever or fluent as Cameron and Clegg, but if you listen to her she is passionate about Wales and is clever enough to do a good job for us. When I look at her compared to the likes of Cameron and Osborne I know who I would rather trust when it comes to making judgement calls on Wales. I feel that I can identify with her. To put it simply I see her as one of us and not one of them. Plaid are not perfect, no party is, but unlike many people I have taken the time to read their detailed policies on their website and in general I like them and believe they would be good for Wales. The London based parties are all hand in hand with big business and the banks who are all driven by greed. The bankers fucked up on a scale that is hard to imagine and created such a huge mess that it will takes many years to recover. The Government's reaction was to bail out the banks to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds. Would they have done that for the NHS or the farmers? Like f**k! The very people who created the mess through their greed are still picking up huge financial bonuses whereas the people who have picked up the tab are the poorest in society who have been conned by this noble concept of austerity where we are all supposed to be in this together and just roll our sleeves up and get on with it. Where is the morality in that? How can anyone ever trust these London based parties to do their best for the working classes? I don't know if you saw the Panorama programme recently on the super rich. It was quite frankly sickening how the big financial corporations deliberately created the conditions that led to the crash and resulted in middle and lower class people becoming considerably worse off while the super rich actually became even richer. Some people knock Wales for the sake of it and like to slag off the Welsh Government without even bothering to look into the facts, but Wales is our country and one thing is for sure, no one else is going to make things better for us. History will tell you that. We all need to have a bit of positivity and believe that we are as good as anyone else and strive for a society based on fairness and equality.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/5b73945e-c0c9-1 ... i_referer=

Wales would be much richer as an independent country and as a member of the EU. Eventually, this will happen anyway as England will eventually leave the EU and Wales will want to stay in it to receive EU funding. Wales should work towards making the Welsh language the official language, English and German/French as the business and international languages and move towards us becoming us embracing who we truly are and being a proud member of the EU block.

Also, Wales as an independent country could hurt England by doing what Ireland have done and lowering corporation tax seeking investment. Why would a company invest in London when they can invest in the South Wales area, roughly 2 hours away and pay less tax? The reality is England knows this is the case, well certainly those in Westminster do, so they continue to try and tell us we need them when in reality they fear us going it alone.

Wales would eventually become strong as hell as an independent country. Its not a massive country with an out of control population. The majority of economic activity is concentrated in the South and it has a vast amount of land available for companies to invest and build. On top of that, land is genuinely cheaper, tax rates could be much more competitive, we could ensure the NHS stays the NHS and we can ensure that the youth of today are given opportunities in manufacturing and other sectors rather than being continuously forced into the service sector by an out of touch economic model centred around London.

In conclusion, many continue to perpetuate the myth that Wales as an independent country and member of the EU (cue the pedants who'll say Wales as an EU member isn't an independent country - you know what I mean) are still suffering from a colonial mindset being fed lies by self serving elites in Westminster who love nothing more than to serve themselves at the expense of the electorate. The EU and the wider modern world has shown through globalisation that small countries with well managed economies can thrive. An economic revolution could occur in Wales if it went alone as well just as has happened in much of the wider world.

Wales also has a vastly superior landscape which is much more desirable. Millionaires could eventually live between mountains in highly sought valley areas whereas England is mostly an urban concrete jungle and to many that is totally unappealing. Then you have hidden gems like Barafundle Bay and other wonderful beaches along the coast, the possibility of further economic trade with Ireland on the west coast and a possible boost in tourism with the right investment could also increase revenue for both countries.

Vote for Wales. Vote for Plaid Cymru.

After reading that sh*t I think I'd vote for Al Queida before I voted for Plaid Cymru..

[/quote]

Look, all governments make bad decisions. None worse than Westminster, but given the fact that they have had to endure huge cuts to their budget and they have virtually no economic levers to use I think the Welsh Government have made more good decisions than bad ones. Personally I believe that Plaid Cymru are more in touch with Welsh people than the other parties in Wales simply because the other parties all have to answer to their London HQs whereas Plaid are only answerable to the people of Wales. Lots of people say that Leanne Wood is too lightweight, and to be honest she probably isn't as clever or fluent as Cameron and Clegg, but if you listen to her she is passionate about Wales and is clever enough to do a good job for us. When I look at her compared to the likes of Cameron and Osborne I know who I would rather trust when it comes to making judgement calls on Wales. I feel that I can identify with her. To put it simply I see her as one of us and not one of them. Plaid are not perfect, no party is, but unlike many people I have taken the time to read their detailed policies on their website and in general I like them and believe they would be good for Wales. The London based parties are all hand in hand with big business and the banks who are all driven by greed. The bankers fucked up on a scale that is hard to imagine and created such a huge mess that it will takes many years to recover. The Government's reaction was to bail out the banks to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds. Would they have done that for the NHS or the farmers? Like f**k! The very people who created the mess through their greed are still picking up huge financial bonuses whereas the people who have picked up the tab are the poorest in society who have been conned by this noble concept of austerity where we are all supposed to be in this together and just roll our sleeves up and get on with it. Where is the morality in that? How can anyone ever trust these London based parties to do their best for the working classes? I don't know if you saw the Panorama programme recently on the super rich. It was quite frankly sickening how the big financial corporations deliberately created the conditions that led to the crash and resulted in middle and lower class people becoming considerably worse off while the super rich actually became even richer. Some people knock Wales for the sake of it and like to slag off the Welsh Government without even bothering to look into the facts, but Wales is our country and one thing is for sure, no one else is going to make things better for us. History will tell you that. We all need to have a bit of positivity and believe that we are as good as anyone else and strive for a society based on fairness and equality. [/quote]

I have looked in detail at the PC website and very little of it actually resonates with me, even the abbreviation of the party now makes sense. For me there is no one party that fits with me but it would probably by a hybrid of UKIP and Cons. Labour, Lib Dems & the greens are lacking any credibility. I am for any party that fundamentally believes in smaller governments and Plaid Cymru doesn't think in this way.

Plaid Cymru? No thanks!

After reading that sh*t I think I'd vote for Al Queida before I voted for Plaid Cymru..

Says more about you than Plaid really. The fact you'd even consider voting for a terrorist organisation just shows you up for who you are. Disgusting.

Plaid Cymru, bringing back Fireman Sam is in their manifesto?