" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

Keith aka Since62, a question to you, hopefully you can answer this. How the hell are we in so much debt still after all the incomes we have received?

Also, Do you believe our club has been run right or badly?

We remain in so much debt because it appears that we have simply spent all the extra income we got from being in the Premier League.Much of that spending was , in my personal opinion , avoidable or unnecessary.

When the 2014 accounts are published , I will be doing a comparison of our financial figures against Swansea`s. They finished higher than us in the League of course so got more Sky income than us by about £10m (£75m compared to our £64m as part of the Sky deal gives clubs an extra £1.2m for every place above bottom they finish in the final league table).
Their total income that season was £99m , so they made £24m from non-Sky money - I would bet that we didn`t , but don`t know for sure until I see the figures.I suspect we didn`t do as well as them because I fear we didn`t maximise potential income such as advertising from companies not owned or controlled by VT.

Despite SCFC paying out over £30m in the cost of new players (and no income from player sales) they still made a profit of nearly £2m , while CCFC now appear to have made a loss in that period.

Keith, Thanks

I honestly cant believe we never made a profit in the Premier League and not forgetting sold out crowds week in week out. For me this just shows that our club has been run beyond belief,worse than Shocking.

The biggest monthly outgoings in virtually any big business are staff costs. I have no idea how much a month the club have to fork out on players wages, admin staff, matchday staff, policing costs, etc. but I would imagine it comes to quite a large amount. There are plenty of extra costs such as taxes and the like, and until the official accounts become available, it would be pretty hard to estimate the total debts. As a rule, football clubs are not the most sensible investment for people looking to make a nice profit. Two things banks were very wary of lending to not so many years back were pubs & football clubs. Were always considered high risk.

Paying off players & managers for a start, going into this season with crowds falling and still the usual bills to pay.
The debt should be down but not really by much.

Paul, We havent paid of Malky or Ole yet.
And everyone praised how Tan got rid of players so quick.

The truth is, that The Club has been run worse than a joke and it looks like its to late to save it. 4 years of bad management from the top, SHOCKING.

" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

Vincent Tan said he had put in £170m?(Tan has repeated this on several occasions).

Since then we have received £61m income from The Premier League

Received £25m from player sales (Medel £11m, Caulker £8m, Mutch £5m and Campbell £1m)

Spent up to £15m (Manga £5m, Morrison £5m, plus Le Fondre, Macheda etc)

So £10m made on sales

Received £23m on parachute payments this season.

£94m income to come off debt ?

How much has Vincent Tan converted out of the £170m/Tan himself said he was doing that quite a while ago.

£36 million when Tan/TG FIRST CAME IN - Was this converted to shares ?


Is the debt now less than £40m ? If so Our Club is staring to look good to sell on

If were relegated it would not really hurt Tan that much as the club would still receive another parachute payment, the out goings would be a lot less and Tan no doubt would clear out another 12 or so players, reducing the debt again, just my opinion.
Yes buyers could say,but your lower league? but to many that would be a great challenge for a big club,with a massive fan base.

I might be wrong? I am not an accountant,but surely our debt must have fallen fast?
The Accounts should start showing this
Tan wants his money back that he has lent us ASAP and wants out of our club ASAP.

My figures are prob not exact,but I think they are there or there about's .

Keith Morgan aka Since62 can you help ?

Have done some responses elsewhere in this thread.

Debt currently due to VT now more than the £130m he claimed he was owed in July 2013.
Despite what Simon Lim previously said about making a profit in the year in the Premier League , accounts filed later this month will show a loss for that season.
I can only attempt to do an explanation of why this is once the May 2014 accounts are available to read.

Well Keith, If we still owe Tan more than £130million, Tan has totally mismanaged this club from top to bottom and deserves to lose the lot. For me No way after all the money we have received from Sky/Transfers etc should we now be still over £130mill in debt

Which would mean I have been virtually right all along, but in fact its been far worse than I ever imagined

Wez, your thoughts? as youve always said it was no where near what Ive always stated and said I was just try to frightening fans etc,but in fact according to Keith its far worse

it shouldn't of gone up from the last accounts of 119 million ,we will have to wait and see when they are released

" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

Vincent Tan said he had put in £170m?(Tan has repeated this on several occasions).

Since then we have received £61m income from The Premier League

Received £25m from player sales (Medel £11m, Caulker £8m, Mutch £5m and Campbell £1m)

Spent up to £15m (Manga £5m, Morrison £5m, plus Le Fondre, Macheda etc)

So £10m made on sales

Received £23m on parachute payments this season.

£94m income to come off debt ?

How much has Vincent Tan converted out of the £170m/Tan himself said he was doing that quite a while ago.

£36 million when Tan/TG FIRST CAME IN - Was this converted to shares ?


Is the debt now less than £40m ? If so Our Club is staring to look good to sell on

If were relegated it would not really hurt Tan that much as the club would still receive another parachute payment, the out goings would be a lot less and Tan no doubt would clear out another 12 or so players, reducing the debt again, just my opinion.
Yes buyers could say,but your lower league? but to many that would be a great challenge for a big club,with a massive fan base.

I might be wrong? I am not an accountant,but surely our debt must have fallen fast?
The Accounts should start showing this
Tan wants his money back that he has lent us ASAP and wants out of our club ASAP.

My figures are prob not exact,but I think they are there or there about's .

Keith Morgan aka Since62 can you help ?

Have done some responses elsewhere in this thread.

Debt currently due to VT now more than the £130m he claimed he was owed in July 2013.
Despite what Simon Lim previously said about making a profit in the year in the Premier League , accounts filed later this month will show a loss for that season.
I can only attempt to do an explanation of why this is once the May 2014 accounts are available to read.

Well Keith, If we still owe Tan more than £130million, Tan has totally mismanaged this club from top to bottom and deserves to lose the lot. For me No way after all the money we have received from Sky/Transfers etc should we now be still over £130mill in debt

Which would mean I have been virtually right all along, but in fact its been far worse than I ever imagined

Wez, your thoughts? as youve always said it was no where near what Ive always stated and said I was just try to frightening fans etc,but in fact according to Keith its far worse

it shouldn't of gone up from the last accounts of 119 million ,we will have to wait and see when they are released but you have been saying that it's 170 million which is clearly isn't

Paying off players & managers for a start, going into this season with crowds falling and still the usual bills to pay.
The debt should be down but not really by much.

Paul, We havent paid of Malky or Ole yet.
And everyone praised how Tan got rid of players so quick.

The truth is, that The Club has been run worse than a joke and it looks like its to late to save it. 4 years of bad management from the top, SHOCKING.

What do you mean to late annis?
Surely it's only a problem if Tan demands his money back straight away like Langston did.

I think we have been mismanaged but I'm pleased the way we are now cutting back the wage bill.

Paying off players & managers for a start, going into this season with crowds falling and still the usual bills to pay.
The debt should be down but not really by much.

Paul, We havent paid of Malky or Ole yet.
And everyone praised how Tan got rid of players so quick.

The truth is, that The Club has been run worse than a joke and it looks like its to late to save it. 4 years of bad management from the top, SHOCKING.

If only it was the last 4 years annis but the truth is we have been like it for the last 15 years with no owner or chairman attempting to bring it under control.

Paying off players & managers for a start, going into this season with crowds falling and still the usual bills to pay.
The debt should be down but not really by much.

Paul, We havent paid of Malky or Ole yet.
And everyone praised how Tan got rid of players so quick.

The truth is, that The Club has been run worse than a joke and it looks like its to late to save it. 4 years of bad management from the top, SHOCKING.

What do you mean to late annis?
Surely it's only a problem if Tan demands his money back straight away like Langston did.

I think we have been mismanaged but I'm pleased the way we are now cutting back the wage bill.

Luke,What I mean is then its to late to get the Club debt down so low other parties would be interested, if the debt has not been reduced down to below £50mill, Some how I still believe they might be? Remember these accounts will be nearly a year old. I just cant imagine that our club could run worse than I had ever imagined.

But like I said Keith is an accountant I'm not, so if Keith is right, then our club has been run by worse than lunatics.

Paying off players & managers for a start, going into this season with crowds falling and still the usual bills to pay.
The debt should be down but not really by much.

Paul, We havent paid of Malky or Ole yet.
And everyone praised how Tan got rid of players so quick.

The truth is, that The Club has been run worse than a joke and it looks like its to late to save it. 4 years of bad management from the top, SHOCKING.

If only it was the last 4 years annis but the truth is we have been like it for the last 15 years with no owner or chairman attempting to bring it under control.

Very true its not past 4 years its been iffy for a lot longer and previous owner as got us in this mess by outlandish spending and borrowing ! But never know the soap opera that is ccfc may have happy ending as the soap opera is still running!!

Annis.
Out of what Tan has put in about £20-£30m was equity.
Also he gave several different debt figures in my memory ranging from £70-£150m

It's complicated,but the last accounts showed £65m owing to him and £22m accruals and £25m other debts.
Since then he's spent a load on players for the Prem, stadium extension and paying off debts.

Most of the Premier league money and para payments have gone on wages.

IMHO we will still be well over £100m in debt to Tan.

Tim, This is one of many reports and I have been told by Directors at our club. Like I have said I dont know every figure exactly,but hopefully near enough and Tan wants his money back and out of CCFC ASAP





Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan reveals he has ploughed £170m into Bluebirds but vows 'I will make us profitable'
1 October 2014

Head of Sport Paul Abbandonato

Bluebirds boss admits he would not have got involved if he had forseen problems, but maintains Cardiff will work for him


Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan is adamant he can turn the Bluebirds into a profitable business despite stating he has already invested £170million into the club.

The Malaysian billionaire says he would never have come on board if he had foreseen the problems thrown his way.

But Tan maintains he can still make Wales’ capital city club a thriving business venture... and reiterated his belief that the ‘lucky red’ will help him.

In the third part of an interview with Sky Sports News, Tan stood by his controversial decision to rebrand the Bluebirds and insists the challenge he has taken on will end well.

“If I had known that it was so difficult and the problems that we faced, maybe I wouldn’t have invested,” said Tan.

“But having said that, I think it is a challenge and I believe that eventually this will end well. I believe that I can make this investment profitable.

“Of course, my friends think I’m crazy, that it is impossible to make it profitable, but I believe that it is possible, so time will tell.”

Annis, The £170m figure there would be the £150m DEBT + the £20m of EQUITY he held at that time.
The equity has increased by about £5m since then.

However the figures he quoted di fluctuate quite dramatically.
Here's one article which is quite helpful

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30533112

Cardiff City have said that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of the clubs debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debts racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also been resolved.
The amount owed to the billionaire by Cardiff could now rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils Tan's commitment to "consolidate third party debt".
Tan is now the only creditor with any legal claim over the club's assets, apart from Cardiff City Council.
The Bluebirds were on the verge of administration when Tan took over in May 2010 and survived three winding-up orders in the 2009-10 season over unpaid taxes.
An outstanding debt of £24m to main creditors Langstone was settled in July 2013.
In January 2014, Cardiff City reported a loss of £30m for the season 2012-13 season, when they were promoted to the Premier League.
The club's overall debt rose to £118m, with just over half - £66m - owed to Tan.
But at the time, Cardiff chairman Mehmet Dalman said Tan had put as much as £150m into the club since 2010.
Dalman added the Bluebirds had been on course to become "debt free" and were in the "process of paying off" a lot of the debt, which had been "inherited" from previous owners.
In May 2014, Tan said he was considering turning a third of the £150m owed to him by the club into equity.
Cardiff City Supporters Trust called on Tan to leave the club debt free and convert all his loans into shares.
Trust board member and director of international accountancy firm Mazars, Keith Morgan, told BBC Sport Wales that Tan's clearing of the third-party debts had done little to achieve this.
"It's like moving the deckchairs on the Titanic," said Morgan.
"It's not reducing the liabilities on the business, just changes to who it's owed.
"The club still can't afford to pay back the money it owes.
"He [Tan] needs to fulfil his promise to convert all his loans into shares."

Annis.
Out of what Tan has put in about £20-£30m was equity.
Also he gave several different debt figures in my memory ranging from £70-£150m

It's complicated,but the last accounts showed £65m owing to him and £22m accruals and £25m other debts.
Since then he's spent a load on players for the Prem, stadium extension and paying off debts.

Most of the Premier league money and para payments have gone on wages.

IMHO we will still be well over £100m in debt to Tan.

Tim

The club`s board now state that the debt due to VT is now greater than the £130m he himself claimed was owed to him back in July 2013. The 2014 accounts may give some steer on this as , although they relate to May 2014 , they will have notes in them on material events happening up to when they were signed off by the board and auditors (which I think was Nov 2014).

Keith

Cheers Keith,

That's at the high end of what I was expecting.

A lot will be affected by the timing of transfer fee money and parachute payments, timings which I'm not aware of, but account for £50m. There could still be £30m of this left to come in.

It's still horrendous - and no wonder the wage bill needed slashing.

Maybe that's where the 'difference in philosophy ' with Ole came from

As it stands this club is only going to be attractive to a new buyer if Tan accepts a loss on his loans or a long term payment schedule.
The asset value of the players can't be more than £15m and the first season onf parachuite money is gone, so it will be difficult to recoup any significant portion through trading without promotion now.

Back to where we were with Sam- only on a bigger scale.

Keith aka Since62, a question to you, hopefully you can answer this. How the hell are we in so much debt still after all the incomes we have received?

Also, Do you believe our club has been run right or badly?

We remain in so much debt because it appears that we have simply spent all the extra income we got from being in the Premier League.Much of that spending was , in my personal opinion , avoidable or unnecessary.

When the 2014 accounts are published , I will be doing a comparison of our financial figures against Swansea`s. They finished higher than us in the League of course so got more Sky income than us by about £10m (£75m compared to our £64m as part of the Sky deal gives clubs an extra £1.2m for every place above bottom they finish in the final league table).
Their total income that season was £99m , so they made £24m from non-Sky money - I would bet that we didn`t , but don`t know for sure until I see the figures.I suspect we didn`t do as well as them because I fear we didn`t maximise potential income such as advertising from companies not owned or controlled by VT.

Despite SCFC paying out over £30m in the cost of new players (and no income from player sales) they still made a profit of nearly £2m , while CCFC now appear to have made a loss in that period.

Keith, just so people aren't mislead that £30m transfer figure is only relevant if it's written off straight to the P and L.
I would be surprised if Swansea had a completely different accounting system to everyone else who write off transfer fees over the length of the contract.

This is the extract from their own statement

Expenditure increased by £29.7m due to additional player amortisation and trading of £21.2m and all other operational costs of £8.5m resulting in an operating profit of £1.3m, which is a marked improvement over a loss of £600,000 previously.
Read more at http://www.swanseacity.net/news/article ... yJkuHh9.99

The additional player and amortisation and trading (as Keith will know- so for the benfit of others) will include signing on fees, agents fees etc.. maybe even losses on contracts which have been cancelled (maybe Laudrup ?).

The amortisation would be something like 25-30% of the money spent on transfer fees, so about £7-£10m.

Swansea have done really well in the transfer market, with Joe Allen, Ben Davies and now Bony amongst others. Which has allowed them to invest without breaking the bank, but it does show what a thin line it is.

The fact Swansea made only £1.3m operating profit on £99m of turnover was a surprise to me, as I had expected them to be putting money away for 'prudence' and just shows how high their wage bill must also be .

Very interesting thread, got some insightful postings on it and I honestly would have been taking a stab in the dark if someone had asked me how much our debt was, but to read that it is likely to be over £130m is mind blowing.

Paying off players & managers for a start, going into this season with crowds falling and still the usual bills to pay.
The debt should be down but not really by much.

Paul, We havent paid of Malky or Ole yet.
And everyone praised how Tan got rid of players so quick.

The truth is, that The Club has been run worse than a joke and it looks like its to late to save it. 4 years of bad management from the top, SHOCKING.

No arguments there. It's easy to praise him for fetting rid of players, but we don't know the costs incurred. I'll be shocked if any player left with nothing in their back pocket! I said when PR was still here that someone had to steady the ship and get the finances on an even keel. If that meant going down then so be it. Sadly, as good as some of it was at times, we've went the other way.

Will catch you for a pint before the Brum game next month.

No doubt those players would have had some kind of pay off. Im guessing it's happened now because we have the extra money from the parachute payments and van reduce the wage bill by paying people off and it not effecting the fair play rules?

If we are in that kind debt there's no way we will be compliant with ffp! And that spells trouble, even tan will know about ffp hence cost cutting i presume?

If we are in that kind debt there's no way we will be compliant with ffp! And that spells trouble, even tan will know about ffs hence cost cutting?

it's the losses per season. Not the total amount of debt in the Ffp rules ,your allowed to lose 8 million a season

If we are in that kind debt there's no way we will be compliant with ffp! And that spells trouble, even tan will know about ffs hence cost cutting?

it's the losses per season. Not the total amount of debt in the Ffp rules ,your allowed to lose 8 million a season

isnt it income against expenditure as well? If it is we are not exactly boyant in that way!

Paying off players & managers for a start, going into this season with crowds falling and still the usual bills to pay.
The debt should be down but not really by much.

Paul, We havent paid of Malky or Ole yet.
And everyone praised how Tan got rid of players so quick.

The truth is, that The Club has been run worse than a joke and it looks like its to late to save it. 4 years of bad management from the top, SHOCKING.

If only it was the last 4 years annis but the truth is we have been like it for the last 15 years with no owner or chairman attempting to bring it under control.

Steve, Your right when you think about it, but now its well out of control and not just that a Club with its heart taken out.

Annis.
Out of what Tan has put in about £20-£30m was equity.
Also he gave several different debt figures in my memory ranging from £70-£150m

It's complicated,but the last accounts showed £65m owing to him and £22m accruals and £25m other debts.
Since then he's spent a load on players for the Prem, stadium extension and paying off debts.

Most of the Premier league money and para payments have gone on wages.

IMHO we will still be well over £100m in debt to Tan.

Tim, This is one of many reports and I have been told by Directors at our club. Like I have said I dont know every figure exactly,but hopefully near enough and Tan wants his money back and out of CCFC ASAP





Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan reveals he has ploughed £170m into Bluebirds but vows 'I will make us profitable'
1 October 2014

Head of Sport Paul Abbandonato

Bluebirds boss admits he would not have got involved if he had forseen problems, but maintains Cardiff will work for him


Cardiff City owner Vincent Tan is adamant he can turn the Bluebirds into a profitable business despite stating he has already invested £170million into the club.

The Malaysian billionaire says he would never have come on board if he had foreseen the problems thrown his way.

But Tan maintains he can still make Wales’ capital city club a thriving business venture... and reiterated his belief that the ‘lucky red’ will help him.

In the third part of an interview with Sky Sports News, Tan stood by his controversial decision to rebrand the Bluebirds and insists the challenge he has taken on will end well.

“If I had known that it was so difficult and the problems that we faced, maybe I wouldn’t have invested,” said Tan.

“But having said that, I think it is a challenge and I believe that eventually this will end well. I believe that I can make this investment profitable.

“Of course, my friends think I’m crazy, that it is impossible to make it profitable, but I believe that it is possible, so time will tell.”

Annis, The £170m figure there would be the £150m DEBT + the £20m of EQUITY he held at that time.
The equity has increased by about £5m since then.

However the figures he quoted di fluctuate quite dramatically.
Here's one article which is quite helpful

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30533112

Cardiff City have said that owner Vincent Tan has cleared some of the clubs debts relating to the building of its new stadium in 2009.
Debts racked up by player purchases under previous owners have also been resolved.
The amount owed to the billionaire by Cardiff could now rise above the £150m it was estimated to be in May 2014.
The club says the action fulfils Tan's commitment to "consolidate third party debt".
Tan is now the only creditor with any legal claim over the club's assets, apart from Cardiff City Council.
The Bluebirds were on the verge of administration when Tan took over in May 2010 and survived three winding-up orders in the 2009-10 season over unpaid taxes.
An outstanding debt of £24m to main creditors Langstone was settled in July 2013.
In January 2014, Cardiff City reported a loss of £30m for the season 2012-13 season, when they were promoted to the Premier League.
The club's overall debt rose to £118m, with just over half - £66m - owed to Tan.
But at the time, Cardiff chairman Mehmet Dalman said Tan had put as much as £150m into the club since 2010.
Dalman added the Bluebirds had been on course to become "debt free" and were in the "process of paying off" a lot of the debt, which had been "inherited" from previous owners.
In May 2014, Tan said he was considering turning a third of the £150m owed to him by the club into equity.
Cardiff City Supporters Trust called on Tan to leave the club debt free and convert all his loans into shares.
Trust board member and director of international accountancy firm Mazars, Keith Morgan, told BBC Sport Wales that Tan's clearing of the third-party debts had done little to achieve this.
"It's like moving the deckchairs on the Titanic," said Morgan.
"It's not reducing the liabilities on the business, just changes to who it's owed.
"The club still can't afford to pay back the money it owes.
"He [Tan] needs to fulfil his promise to convert all his loans into shares."

Funny story is Tim, that for well over a year now,Ive been saying the debt was well out of control,but some on here shot me down for it day after day. Sadly its all true.

Funny thing is we are in exactly same position befoore tan came in ? Multi millions in debt with no way of paying it just like before! only difference is we await the final outcome if and when that comes, and unless tan puls plug and except loses of many millions, we should be far more stable than we have ever been when he leaves

Well if annis is any where near with his knowledge and he says about 40 million in debt and you app loud him
Why do you question my thoughts of 50 million
Or is it troobloo 3339 that puts you into questionable mode
And forever blue that puts you into a agreeable mode

Who said Annis was anywhere close to being correct?? I said at least he backed his guess work up with figures, you have just gone and added £10 million to Annis's figures

Funny thing is we are in exactly same position befoore tan came in ? Multi millions in debt with no way of paying it just like before! only difference is we await the final outcome if and when that comes, and unless tan puls plug and except loses of many millions, we should be far more stable than we have ever been when he leaves

Allan, Were def in a worse position, higher debt,fans fed up, the loss of our identity, lost many fans and Weve been a laughing stock for 4 years a fact. At least in the Old 3rd/4th DIvision days Our fans were Proud of their Club no matter what

Well if annis is any where near with his knowledge and he says about 40 million in debt and you app loud him
Why do you question my thoughts of 50 million
Or is it troobloo 3339 that puts you into questionable mode
And forever blue that puts you into a agreeable mode

Who said Annis was anywhere close to being correct?? I said at least he backed his guess work up with figures, you have just gone and added £10 million to Annis's figures

I tried my best with the figures,but it looks like Tan managed our club so bad, I was way out

" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

Vincent Tan said he had put in £170m?(Tan has repeated this on several occasions).

Since then we have received £61m income from The Premier League

Received £25m from player sales (Medel £11m, Caulker £8m, Mutch £5m and Campbell £1m)

Spent up to £15m (Manga £5m, Morrison £5m, plus Le Fondre, Macheda etc)

So £10m made on sales

Received £23m on parachute payments this season.

£94m income to come off debt ?

How much has Vincent Tan converted out of the £170m/Tan himself said he was doing that quite a while ago.

£36 million when Tan/TG FIRST CAME IN - Was this converted to shares ?


Is the debt now less than £40m ? If so Our Club is staring to look good to sell on

If were relegated it would not really hurt Tan that much as the club would still receive another parachute payment, the out goings would be a lot less and Tan no doubt would clear out another 12 or so players, reducing the debt again, just my opinion.
Yes buyers could say,but your lower league? but to many that would be a great challenge for a big club,with a massive fan base.

I might be wrong? I am not an accountant,but surely our debt must have fallen fast?
The Accounts should start showing this
Tan wants his money back that he has lent us ASAP and wants out of our club ASAP.

My figures are prob not exact,but I think they are there or there about's .

Keith Morgan aka Since62 can you help ?

Have done some responses elsewhere in this thread.

Debt currently due to VT now more than the £130m he claimed he was owed in July 2013.
Despite what Simon Lim previously said about making a profit in the year in the Premier League , accounts filed later this month will show a loss for that season.
I can only attempt to do an explanation of why this is once the May 2014 accounts are available to read.

Well Keith, If we still owe Tan more than £130million, Tan has totally mismanaged this club from top to bottom and deserves to lose the lot. For me No way after all the money we have received from Sky/Transfers etc should we now be still over £130mill in debt

Which would mean I have been virtually right all along, but in fact its been far worse than I ever imagined

Wez, your thoughts? as youve always said it was no where near what Ive always stated and said I was just try to frightening fans etc,but in fact according to Keith its far worse

it shouldn't of gone up from the last accounts of 119 million ,we will have to wait and see when they are released but you have been saying that it's 170 million which is clearly isn't

The debt due to VT in the last accounts to May 2013 was nowhere near £119m. I don't have the accounts with me as I respond but from memory it was about £67m plus shares of £6m

He'll sell once he's recouped has much as he can from the parachute payments

Until then he's just going through the motions.

He's a proud business man who has no interest in City anymore but will not just let the club go until he has as much money back as possible.

Funny thing is we are in exactly same position befoore tan came in ? Multi millions in debt with no way of paying it just like before! only difference is we await the final outcome if and when that comes, and unless tan puls plug and except loses of many millions, we should be far more stable than we have ever been when he leaves

Allan, Were def in a worse position, higher debt,fans fed up, the loss of our identity, lost many fans and Weve been a laughing stock for 4 years a fact. At least in the Old 3rd/4th DIvision days Our fans were Proud of their Club no matter what

Talking financially at end of day only two real scenarios 1, tan pulls out losing x amount of millions , 2, tan sorts out debt one way or other and sells us , which would leave us in more stable condition than before! annis i know we are mess ect ect even i can see that?

Funny thing is we are in exactly same position befoore tan came in ? Multi millions in debt with no way of paying it just like before! only difference is we await the final outcome if and when that comes, and unless tan puls plug and except loses of many millions, we should be far more stable than we have ever been when he leaves

Allan, Were def in a worse position, higher debt,fans fed up, the loss of our identity, lost many fans and Weve been a laughing stock for 4 years a fact. At least in the Old 3rd/4th DIvision days Our fans were Proud of their Club no matter what

Talking financially at end of day only two real scenarios 1, tan pulls out losing x amount of millions , 2, tan sorts out debt one way or other and sells us , which would leave us in more stable condition than before! annis i know we are mess ect ect even i can see that?

Allan, If Keiths figures are correct and I have no doubting them, then Tan will have to accept a massive loss one day,as I cant see how he will get his money back? ? ?

Funny thing is we are in exactly same position befoore tan came in ? Multi millions in debt with no way of paying it just like before! only difference is we await the final outcome if and when that comes, and unless tan puls plug and except loses of many millions, we should be far more stable than we have ever been when he leaves

Allan, Were def in a worse position, higher debt,fans fed up, the loss of our identity, lost many fans and Weve been a laughing stock for 4 years a fact. At least in the Old 3rd/4th DIvision days Our fans were Proud of their Club no matter what

Talking financially at end of day only two real scenarios 1, tan pulls out losing x amount of millions , 2, tan sorts out debt one way or other and sells us , which would leave us in more stable condition than before! annis i know we are mess ect ect even i can see that?

Allan, If Keiths figures are correct and I have no doubting them, then Tan will have to accept a massive loss one day,as I cant see how he will get his money back? ? ?[/quot


I AGREE annis just wonder what is in tans mind ? Dalman says still plan to turn debt equity, so what on earth is his plan to achieve
financial equality to do this?

" CARDIFF CITY LOOKING GOOD TO SELL? "

Vincent Tan said he had put in £170m?(Tan has repeated this on several occasions).

Since then we have received £61m income from The Premier League

Received £25m from player sales (Medel £11m, Caulker £8m, Mutch £5m and Campbell £1m)

Spent up to £15m (Manga £5m, Morrison £5m, plus Le Fondre, Macheda etc)

So £10m made on sales

Received £23m on parachute payments this season.

£94m income to come off debt ?

How much has Vincent Tan converted out of the £170m/Tan himself said he was doing that quite a while ago.

£36 million when Tan/TG FIRST CAME IN - Was this converted to shares ?


Is the debt now less than £40m ? If so Our Club is staring to look good to sell on

If were relegated it would not really hurt Tan that much as the club would still receive another parachute payment, the out goings would be a lot less and Tan no doubt would clear out another 12 or so players, reducing the debt again, just my opinion.
Yes buyers could say,but your lower league? but to many that would be a great challenge for a big club,with a massive fan base.

I might be wrong? I am not an accountant,but surely our debt must have fallen fast?
The Accounts should start showing this
Tan wants his money back that he has lent us ASAP and wants out of our club ASAP.

My figures are prob not exact,but I think they are there or there about's .

Keith Morgan aka Since62 can you help ?

Have done some responses elsewhere in this thread.

Debt currently due to VT now more than the £130m he claimed he was owed in July 2013.
Despite what Simon Lim previously said about making a profit in the year in the Premier League , accounts filed later this month will show a loss for that season.
I can only attempt to do an explanation of why this is once the May 2014 accounts are available to read.

Well Keith, If we still owe Tan more than £130million, Tan has totally mismanaged this club from top to bottom and deserves to lose the lot. For me No way after all the money we have received from Sky/Transfers etc should we now be still over £130mill in debt

Which would mean I have been virtually right all along, but in fact its been far worse than I ever imagined

Wez, your thoughts? as youve always said it was no where near what Ive always stated and said I was just try to frightening fans etc,but in fact according to Keith its far worse

it shouldn't of gone up from the last accounts of 119 million ,we will have to wait and see when they are released but you have been saying that it's 170 million which is clearly isn't

The debt due to VT in the last accounts to May 2013 was nowhere near £119m. I don't have the accounts with me as I respond but from memory it was about £67m plus shares of £6m

119 m was the overall club debt ,including Langston and all other liability s most of it has been paid off by tans money and pmg by the premier club sales ,I seen you said earlier in this thread that you dont think we would of gained as much as Swansea other than the sky money but our crowds were 7 k more plus our hospitality day tickets and revenue is a lot more