Why the hatred

it's disappointing that the so called leaders of our supporter groups have not got together and are yet to take Vincent Tan seriously on his offer of compromise. It does appear our leaders are lacking the skills of negotiation, surely with red on the field and blue off it things can only get better as we are now in a good position to negotiate should our leaders take the right approach. Common ground needs to be established before the season starts such as uncompromising support of our team during this promotion attempt, continue wearing blue however silently rejecting the re-brand.I would settle for blue home and red away with the traditional bluebird badge at home and the new badge away.

I am a supporter since 1970

Really....did you ever buy one of those tickets guessing what time the first goal was scored..now what were they called?

No I have never purchased a golden goal ticket why?

Could not remember their name.

I used to travel to the away games on the supporters club bus run by the likes of Kevin or roger if you can remember them?

Never went on the buses. Use to do the transit fan with the Kerslakes from Barry and the Oldrigdes from St Athan.

I used to do the transit as well with some friends from the westgate in Cardiff. apologies for being off the subject maybe I should introduce myself being a new poster.

it's disappointing that the so called leaders of our supporter groups have not got together and are yet to take Vincent Tan seriously on his offer of compromise. It does appear our leaders are lacking the skills of negotiation, surely with red on the field and blue off it things can only get better as we are now in a good position to negotiate should our leaders take the right approach. Common ground needs to be established before the season starts such as uncompromising support of our team during this promotion attempt, continue wearing blue however silently rejecting the re-brand.I would settle for blue home and red away with the traditional bluebird badge at home and the new badge away.

I am a supporter since 1970

Three different meetings were arranged and Tan has cancelled all of them, with no good reason given.

Of course the fans would like to sit down with him and talk,but if he is not willing to, we cant force him can we?

Are there any further plans in place for a united group of supporter representatives to arrange a meeting with the club before the season starts?

it's disappointing that the so called leaders of our supporter groups have not got together and are yet to take Vincent Tan seriously on his offer of compromise. It does appear our leaders are lacking the skills of negotiation, surely with red on the field and blue off it things can only get better as we are now in a good position to negotiate should our leaders take the right approach. Common ground needs to be established before the season starts such as uncompromising support of our team during this promotion attempt, continue wearing blue however silently rejecting the re-brand.I would settle for blue home and red away with the traditional bluebird badge at home and the new badge away.

I am a supporter since 1970

Really....did you ever buy one of those tickets guessing what time the first goal was scored..now what were they called?

No I have never purchased a golden goal ticket why?

lol............i never bought one either,or could i remember the name.....id have it engrained if i knew it was the acid test, feel a bit like Gordon Jackson in the great escape..........

I am a big Cardiff fan nothing compared to some but my 1st game was oxford home 4-1 loss Paul Moody Hat trick. Vincent Tan has invested loads of money for a return no doubt but otherwise we would be a struggling team at best. We seam to think that we as fans choose colour of kit identity etc. but the truth is if you loaned anybody the amount of money Tan has invested I would want everything Tan has asked for, im not a Tan fan but I got to admit loan or equity without Tan we would be a Leeds bringing in shit players with their own packed lunches. Yes we should tell him colour change is not ideal but would anybody storm into their bosses office telling him he is a tool knowing full well without him he ends up with no job. Sympathise no doubt but I am a realist.

When a bank lends you money to buy your house they don't tell you what colour to paint it

BUT IF THE .............ONLY........MORTGAGE YOU COULD GET WAS FROM A COMPANY THAT INSISTED THEY CHOOSE THE COLOUR.................YOUD LIVE WITH IT.....

I am a big Cardiff fan nothing compared to some but my 1st game was oxford home 4-1 loss Paul Moody Hat trick. Vincent Tan has invested loads of money for a return no doubt but otherwise we would be a struggling team at best. We seam to think that we as fans choose colour of kit identity etc. but the truth is if you loaned anybody the amount of money Tan has invested I would want everything Tan has asked for, im not a Tan fan but I got to admit loan or equity without Tan we would be a Leeds bringing in shit players with their own packed lunches. Yes we should tell him colour change is not ideal but would anybody storm into their bosses office telling him he is a tool knowing full well without him he ends up with no job. Sympathise no doubt but I am a realist.

When a bank lends you money to buy your house they don't tell you what colour to paint it

More comedy gold from kcb!

Again no ticket last season so no games to watch and a friend of mine told me in December we were down because of no atmoshphere all in fighting by our own fans,that is our fault, we as fans are there to support our team, who,s players are on loads of money because Tan said he would cover it the fact is Tan is here to invest and take out a profit but look at Blackburn leeds etc its all gone wrong because of fans please don't let us become the next team. All im saying is if you believe in blue wear blue and protest after the final whistle not when we are playing and need the 12th man like we had in championship and early premier league games no fluke we beat the champions with a full house of support.

Why do you feel that supporting the team at games and protesting against the enforced and unexplained colour change are mutually exclusive?

The in-game protests are against Tan and not the players (who have no choice either in what kit they play in) and they are perfectly well aware of this.

Look im not looking for a right answer but it doesn't matter to me if we play in red,blue or any other colour the truth is if Tan never said we will be red some fans wouldn't be bothered myself included.There is a bigger picture and I for 1 think all this blue or I am not a fan is hypocritical. I am a Cardiff fan not a colour fan even though when shouting bluebirds in red seemed ironic !!

Could you please explain what the "bigger picture" is , as Mr Tan seems unable to do so , even after 2 years of having the opportunity to do so?

[quote="Simple Man"]it's disappointing that the so called leaders of our supporter groups have not got together and are yet to take Vincent Tan seriously on his offer of compromise. It does appear our leaders are lacking the skills of negotiation, surely with red on the field and blue off it things can only get better as we are now in a good position to negotiate should our leaders take the right approach. Common ground needs to be established before the season starts such as uncompromising support of our team during this promotion attempt, continue wearing blue however silently rejecting the re-brand.I would settle for blue home and red away with the traditional bluebird badge at home and the new badge away.

I am a supporter since 1970[/quote

The various supporter groups have tried very hard to discuss such issues with Vincent Tan. As Annis has said elsewhere in this thread many attempts have been made to have such a debate but all have been cancelled , usually at short notice. The only time Mr Tan has met with fans` groups was for a brief half hour session where he basically talked at the people present and listened to nothing they said to him.

The so called offer of compromise has so many strings attached to it that it is no compromise at all. No meeting to discuss rebranding at all unless and until the club is promoted to the Premier League (may take several seasons) and then only a "compromise" that meets Tan`s own wishes (so probably no compromise at all).

I truly believe that Mr Tan will never wish to have an honest and open debate over the rebranding or indeed any other issue involving the football club as he simply couldn`t handle people putting logical arguments to him or failing to "bow down" unconditionally to his views as he is used to with his employees. For instance , a live television debate independently chaired would make both sides` views clear but can you really see him agreeing to that or the club Chairman risking him doing so?

Why should fans be limited to a silent protest against the kit change? Who sets the rules for what they can or can`t do? You? Vincent Tan?

I have been a fan since 1962.

I am a big Cardiff fan nothing compared to some but my 1st game was oxford home 4-1 loss Paul Moody Hat trick. Vincent Tan has invested loads of money for a return no doubt but otherwise we would be a struggling team at best. We seam to think that we as fans choose colour of kit identity etc. but the truth is if you loaned anybody the amount of money Tan has invested I would want everything Tan has asked for, im not a Tan fan but I got to admit loan or equity without Tan we would be a Leeds bringing in shit players with their own packed lunches. Yes we should tell him colour change is not ideal but would anybody storm into their bosses office telling him he is a tool knowing full well without him he ends up with no job. Sympathise no doubt but I am a realist.

We've all watched cardiff struggle for our whole lives and they were the better days. Last seasons short lived PL was the most shallow and unenjoyable season I've ever witnessed because regardless of our results, before the rebrand we were always proud of who we were but now I cant even recognise my team when they run out onto the field

it's disappointing that the so called leaders of our supporter groups have not got together and are yet to take Vincent Tan seriously on his offer of compromise. It does appear our leaders are lacking the skills of negotiation, surely with red on the field and blue off it things can only get better as we are now in a good position to negotiate should our leaders take the right approach. Common ground needs to be established before the season starts such as uncompromising support of our team during this promotion attempt, continue wearing blue however silently rejecting the re-brand.I would settle for blue home and red away with the traditional bluebird badge at home and the new badge away.

I am a supporter since 1970

The various supporter groups have tried very hard to discuss such issues with Vincent Tan. As Annis has said elsewhere in this thread many attempts have been made to have such a debate but all have been cancelled , usually at short notice. The only time Mr Tan has met with fans` groups was for a brief half hour session where he basically talked at the people present and listened to nothing they said to him.
If I am correct the 'meetings' were prior to hi compromise offer, so he has listened.

The so called offer of compromise has so many strings attached to it that it is no compromise at all. No meeting to discuss rebranding at all unless and until the club is promoted to the Premier League (may take several seasons) and then only a "compromise" that meets Tan`s own wishes (so probably no compromise at all).

I listened carefully to the interview and in short what he said was - look get behind the team ,let's get back to the PL and at that point I'll talk a compromise kit (but if I'm going to back down give me some space to do it gracefully). - If you and your gang had any sense you would engage with him on that and put the ball in his court to respond in good faith in due course. There's no way it can change this season so don't be so blinkered.

I truly believe that Mr Tan will never wish to have an honest and open debate over the rebranding or indeed any other issue involving the football club as he simply couldn`t handle people putting logical arguments to him or failing to "bow down" unconditionally to his views as he is used to with his employees. For instance , a live television debate independently chaired would make both sides` views clear but can you really see him agreeing to that or the club Chairman risking him doing so?
Why should he do that? What a waste of time. Listen to the Trust? ha ha ha. The cabal who gave Malky the life presidency or whatever as an anti-Tan gesture. Get real.

Why should fans be limited to a silent protest against the kit change? Who sets the rules for what they can or can`t do? You? Vincent Tan?

Wear as many blue shirts and make as much money as you like, just don't be offensive, chant nasty chants and generally poison the atmosphere. Like I said publicly accept his compromise and put the ball in his court. If you want Tan out, the quickest way is to get back to the PL and let him secure his exit (without jeopardising the stability of the club).

I have been a fan since 1962.

Then you ought to have a little more perspective and be less parochial,particularly as a professional man. I suggest you have lost all balance on this issue and your outpourings should be treated accordingly.




















]

Then you ought to have a little more perspective and be less parochial,particularly as a professional man. I suggest you have lost all balance on this issue and your outpourings should be treated accordingly.

What a load of rubbish.

it's disappointing that the so called leaders of our supporter groups have not got together and are yet to take Vincent Tan seriously on his offer of compromise. It does appear our leaders are lacking the skills of negotiation, surely with red on the field and blue off it things can only get better as we are now in a good position to negotiate should our leaders take the right approach. Common ground needs to be established before the season starts such as uncompromising support of our team during this promotion attempt, continue wearing blue however silently rejecting the re-brand.I would settle for blue home and red away with the traditional bluebird badge at home and the new badge away.

I am a supporter since 1970

The various supporter groups have tried very hard to discuss such issues with Vincent Tan. As Annis has said elsewhere in this thread many attempts have been made to have such a debate but all have been cancelled , usually at short notice. The only time Mr Tan has met with fans` groups was for a brief half hour session where he basically talked at the people present and listened to nothing they said to him.
If I am correct the 'meetings' were prior to hi compromise offer, so he has listened.

BUT SEVERAL ATTEMPTS HAVE BEEN MADE SINCE THAT INITIAL MEETING TO SET UP A FURTHER MEETING TO DISCUSS THIS OPENLY AND HONESTLY , AND ALL SUCH REQUESTS HAVE BEEN IGNORED.



The so called offer of compromise has so many strings attached to it that it is no compromise at all. No meeting to discuss rebranding at all unless and until the club is promoted to the Premier League (may take several seasons) and then only a "compromise" that meets Tan`s own wishes (so probably no compromise at all).

I listened carefully to the interview and in short what he said was - look get behind the team ,let's get back to the PL and at that point I'll talk a compromise kit (but if I'm going to back down give me some space to do it gracefully). - If you and your gang had any sense you would engage with him on that and put the ball in his court to respond in good faith in due course. There's no way it can change this season so don't be so blinkered.

I ALSO LISTENED CAREFULLY TO THE INTERVIEW AND DISCUSSED IT WITH THE INTERVIEWER. GETTING BACK TO THE PREMIER LEAGUE FIRST IS JUST A DELAYING TACTIC (IT COULD TAKE AGES), NOT A COMPROMISE. NO-ONE IS SUGGESTING NOT GETTING BEHIND THE TEAM - EVERYONE DID LAST SEASON DESPITE SUCH STRONG FEELINGS AGAINST THE REBRAND AND WILL DO AGAIN THIS COMING SEASON. THERE IS NO VALID REASON WHY MR TAN CANNOT SIT DOWN NOW AND DISCUSS/AGREE A COMPROMISE FOR NEXT SEASON (WHATEVER DIVISON WE ARE IN).THAT GIVES PLENTY OF TIME FOR HIM TO AGREE SOMETHING THAT SAVES HIM SOME "FACE".
I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY "GANG" AS YOU PUT IT , JUST SEEK TO REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF TRUST MEMBERS AS THEY VOTED.BASED ON THAT INITIAL MEETING WITH MR TAN , THESE VIEWS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE VIEWS OF THE ELECTED BOARD OF THE SUPPORTERS CLUB AND THE DISABLED SUPPORTERS WHO WERE BOTH PRESENT AT THAT MEETING.
I HAVE NEVER SUGGESTED THAT THINGS CAN CHANGE THIS SEASON (ALTHOUGH THEY COULD HAVE SHOULD MR TAN HAVE BEEN WILLING TO DISCUSS THESE THINGS WHEN THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY MONTHS AGO.

I truly believe that Mr Tan will never wish to have an honest and open debate over the rebranding or indeed any other issue involving the football club as he simply couldn`t handle people putting logical arguments to him or failing to "bow down" unconditionally to his views as he is used to with his employees. For instance , a live television debate independently chaired would make both sides` views clear but can you really see him agreeing to that or the club Chairman risking him doing so?
Why should he do that? What a waste of time. Listen to the Trust? ha ha ha. The cabal who gave Malky the life presidency or whatever as an anti-Tan gesture. Get real.

I WAS ONLY GIVING AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT AN OPEN AND HONEST DEBATE ON THE TOPIC COULD INVOLVE. I CLEARLY SAID I DIDN`T EXPECT IT TO HAPPEN. WHY SHOULDN`T HE LISTEN TO THE TRUST AND THE OTHER ELECTED SUPPORTERS GROUPS? AND WHY IS THE TRUST A"CABAL" ? I HAVE ALREADY CLEARLY EXPLAINED THAT HONARARY MEMBERSHIP (NOT LIFE PRESIDENCY AS YOU DESCRIBE IT) WAS A THANK YOU FOR PROMOTION AND NOT AT ALL AN "ANTI-TAN GESTURE". I KNOW THAT TO BE A FACT BECAUSE I WAS AT THE MEETING WHERE IT WAS DECIDED UPON.

Why should fans be limited to a silent protest against the kit change? Who sets the rules for what they can or can`t do? You? Vincent Tan?

Wear as many blue shirts and make as much money as you like, just don't be offensive, chant nasty chants and generally poison the atmosphere. Like I said publicly accept his compromise and put the ball in his court. If you want Tan out, the quickest way is to get back to the PL and let him secure his exit (without jeopardising the stability of the club).

WHO IS MAKING MONEY FROM BLUE SHIRT SALES? CERTAINLY NOT THE TRUST , AND THE MANUFACTURER IS ALSO MAKING VERY LITTLE AS I UNDERSTAND IT FROM PHIL JONES WHO HAS DONE SUCH A GREAT JOB IN KICK STARTING AND OVERSEEING THE INITIATIVE.
I PERSONALLY DON`T CHANT "NASTY CHANTS" BUT ALSO DON`T FEEL I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL OTHERS WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT DO TO EXPRESS THEIR DISASTISFACTION. WHY DO YOU FEEL YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT?

ALSO FROM A PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW , I HAVE STATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT I DO NOT WANT VINCENT TAN OUT OF THE CLUB ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS I WANT HIM TO CHANGE HIS ATTITUDE AND APPROACH , BUT THE LATTER ROUTE SEEMS INCREASINGLY UNLIKELY AS TIME PROGRESSES - AS WITNESSED BY THE ONGOING SACKINGS OF ALL WHO DISAGREE WITH HIM.

I have been a fan since 1962.

Then you ought to have a little more perspective and be less parochial,particularly as a professional man. I suggest you have lost all balance on this issue and your outpourings should be treated accordingly.

I HAVE PLENTY OF PERSPECTIVE THANKS AND , AS A PROFESSIONAL MAN , AM ASTOUNDED AND DEPERATELY DISAPPOINTED AT THE THOROUGHLY UNPROFESSIONAL WAY IN WHICH THE CLUB HAS BEEN RUN. FOLLOWING THE DEBACLE THAT WAS THE HAMMAM/RIDSDALE REIGNS I EXPECTED FAR BETTER FROM VINCENT TAN BUT CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE CLUB (MARKETING , PR , COST CONTROLS ETC) HAVE GOT EVEN WORSE.

I APPRECIATE THAT OTHERS MAY HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW , BUT I DO NOT REGARD MY CRITICISMS TO BE "OUTPOURINGS" BUT REASONED ARGUMENTS AS TO HOW THE CLUB COULD DO SUCH MUCH BETTER SO EASILY SHOULD IT CHOOSE TO DO SO.




















]

We all know we're going to be back to blue under a new owner so lets just bide our time

We all know we're going to be back to blue under a new owner so lets just bide our time

We do? I wish I shared your optimism...

Biding our time will do nothing. The longer the red remains, the harder it will be to remove. It needs to go ASAP.

The hatred is because of the fact it doesn't feel like Cardiff City anymore and i don't find it enjoyable going down there anymore, ripped the heart and soul out of the club. I have stopped going for the time being, and it's Tans fault.

same here...

it's disappointing that the so called leaders of our supporter groups have not got together and are yet to take Vincent Tan seriously on his offer of compromise. It does appear our leaders are lacking the skills of negotiation, surely with red on the field and blue off it things can only get better as we are now in a good position to negotiate should our leaders take the right approach. Common ground needs to be established before the season starts such as uncompromising support of our team during this promotion attempt, continue wearing blue however silently rejecting the re-brand.I would settle for blue home and red away with the traditional bluebird badge at home and the new badge away.

I am a supporter since 1970

The various supporter groups have tried very hard to discuss such issues with Vincent Tan. As Annis has said elsewhere in this thread many attempts have been made to have such a debate but all have been cancelled , usually at short notice. The only time Mr Tan has met with fans` groups was for a brief half hour session where he basically talked at the people present and listened to nothing they said to him.
If I am correct the 'meetings' were prior to hi compromise offer, so he has listened.

BUT SEVERAL ATTEMPTS HAVE BEEN MADE SINCE THAT INITIAL MEETING TO SET UP A FURTHER MEETING TO DISCUSS THIS OPENLY AND HONESTLY , AND ALL SUCH REQUESTS HAVE BEEN IGNORED.



The so called offer of compromise has so many strings attached to it that it is no compromise at all. No meeting to discuss rebranding at all unless and until the club is promoted to the Premier League (may take several seasons) and then only a "compromise" that meets Tan`s own wishes (so probably no compromise at all).

I listened carefully to the interview and in short what he said was - look get behind the team ,let's get back to the PL and at that point I'll talk a compromise kit (but if I'm going to back down give me some space to do it gracefully). - If you and your gang had any sense you would engage with him on that and put the ball in his court to respond in good faith in due course. There's no way it can change this season so don't be so blinkered.

I ALSO LISTENED CAREFULLY TO THE INTERVIEW AND DISCUSSED IT WITH THE INTERVIEWER. GETTING BACK TO THE PREMIER LEAGUE FIRST IS JUST A DELAYING TACTIC (IT COULD TAKE AGES), NOT A COMPROMISE. NO-ONE IS SUGGESTING NOT GETTING BEHIND THE TEAM - EVERYONE DID LAST SEASON DESPITE SUCH STRONG FEELINGS AGAINST THE REBRAND AND WILL DO AGAIN THIS COMING SEASON. THERE IS NO VALID REASON WHY MR TAN CANNOT SIT DOWN NOW AND DISCUSS/AGREE A COMPROMISE FOR NEXT SEASON (WHATEVER DIVISON WE ARE IN).THAT GIVES PLENTY OF TIME FOR HIM TO AGREE SOMETHING THAT SAVES HIM SOME "FACE".
I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY "GANG" AS YOU PUT IT , JUST SEEK TO REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF TRUST MEMBERS AS THEY VOTED.BASED ON THAT INITIAL MEETING WITH MR TAN , THESE VIEWS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE VIEWS OF THE ELECTED BOARD OF THE SUPPORTERS CLUB AND THE DISABLED SUPPORTERS WHO WERE BOTH PRESENT AT THAT MEETING.
I HAVE NEVER SUGGESTED THAT THINGS CAN CHANGE THIS SEASON (ALTHOUGH THEY COULD HAVE SHOULD MR TAN HAVE BEEN WILLING TO DISCUSS THESE THINGS WHEN THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY MONTHS AGO.

I truly believe that Mr Tan will never wish to have an honest and open debate over the rebranding or indeed any other issue involving the football club as he simply couldn`t handle people putting logical arguments to him or failing to "bow down" unconditionally to his views as he is used to with his employees. For instance , a live television debate independently chaired would make both sides` views clear but can you really see him agreeing to that or the club Chairman risking him doing so?
Why should he do that? What a waste of time. Listen to the Trust? ha ha ha. The cabal who gave Malky the life presidency or whatever as an anti-Tan gesture. Get real.

I WAS ONLY GIVING AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT AN OPEN AND HONEST DEBATE ON THE TOPIC COULD INVOLVE. I CLEARLY SAID I DIDN`T EXPECT IT TO HAPPEN. WHY SHOULDN`T HE LISTEN TO THE TRUST AND THE OTHER ELECTED SUPPORTERS GROUPS? AND WHY IS THE TRUST A"CABAL" ? I HAVE ALREADY CLEARLY EXPLAINED THAT HONARARY MEMBERSHIP (NOT LIFE PRESIDENCY AS YOU DESCRIBE IT) WAS A THANK YOU FOR PROMOTION AND NOT AT ALL AN "ANTI-TAN GESTURE". I KNOW THAT TO BE A FACT BECAUSE I WAS AT THE MEETING WHERE IT WAS DECIDED UPON.

Why should fans be limited to a silent protest against the kit change? Who sets the rules for what they can or can`t do? You? Vincent Tan?

Wear as many blue shirts and make as much money as you like, just don't be offensive, chant nasty chants and generally poison the atmosphere. Like I said publicly accept his compromise and put the ball in his court. If you want Tan out, the quickest way is to get back to the PL and let him secure his exit (without jeopardising the stability of the club).

WHO IS MAKING MONEY FROM BLUE SHIRT SALES? CERTAINLY NOT THE TRUST , AND THE MANUFACTURER IS ALSO MAKING VERY LITTLE AS I UNDERSTAND IT FROM PHIL JONES WHO HAS DONE SUCH A GREAT JOB IN KICK STARTING AND OVERSEEING THE INITIATIVE.
I PERSONALLY DON`T CHANT "NASTY CHANTS" BUT ALSO DON`T FEEL I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL OTHERS WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT DO TO EXPRESS THEIR DISASTISFACTION. WHY DO YOU FEEL YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT?

ALSO FROM A PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW , I HAVE STATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT I DO NOT WANT VINCENT TAN OUT OF THE CLUB ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS I WANT HIM TO CHANGE HIS ATTITUDE AND APPROACH , BUT THE LATTER ROUTE SEEMS INCREASINGLY UNLIKELY AS TIME PROGRESSES - AS WITNESSED BY THE ONGOING SACKINGS OF ALL WHO DISAGREE WITH HIM.

I have been a fan since 1962.

Then you ought to have a little more perspective and be less parochial,particularly as a professional man. I suggest you have lost all balance on this issue and your outpourings should be treated accordingly.

I HAVE PLENTY OF PERSPECTIVE THANKS AND , AS A PROFESSIONAL MAN , AM ASTOUNDED AND DEPERATELY DISAPPOINTED AT THE THOROUGHLY UNPROFESSIONAL WAY IN WHICH THE CLUB HAS BEEN RUN. FOLLOWING THE DEBACLE THAT WAS THE HAMMAM/RIDSDALE REIGNS I EXPECTED FAR BETTER FROM VINCENT TAN BUT CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE CLUB (MARKETING , PR , COST CONTROLS ETC) HAVE GOT EVEN WORSE.

I APPRECIATE THAT OTHERS MAY HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW , BUT I DO NOT REGARD MY CRITICISMS TO BE "OUTPOURINGS" BUT REASONED ARGUMENTS AS TO HOW THE CLUB COULD DO SUCH MUCH BETTER SO EASILY SHOULD IT CHOOSE TO DO SO.


There you go again. Your hatred of Mr Tan shines through.Objectivity switched off.No reason whatsoever.you're worse than one of those Cardiff blues fans sitting in the Goat Major.
Marketing -no worse or better than before but there has been a constant in this and who I believe left the club some weeks ago.
PR - well it was a tricky situation to have your manager and his agent leaking provocative and destabilising snippets to the national press
Cost control- do you mean the transfer fees/budgeting which was trusted to M M and his crony? Out of his depth and out of control and you gave him a medal as a deliberate slight to Mr Tan. That displayed a total lack of perspective, balance and good sense.

And stop rattling on about corporate governance. I'd bin that copy of the Cadbury report if I were you.

I suggest a period of honest reflection would do you good.

Finally f.a.o. chockle the grass -do one.















]

I am a big Cardiff fan nothing compared to some but my 1st game was oxford home 4-1 loss Paul Moody Hat trick. Vincent Tan has invested loads of money for a return no doubt but otherwise we would be a struggling team at best. We seam to think that we as fans choose colour of kit identity etc. but the truth is if you loaned anybody the amount of money Tan has invested I would want everything Tan has asked for, im not a Tan fan but I got to admit loan or equity without Tan we would be a Leeds bringing in shit players with their own packed lunches. Yes we should tell him colour change is not ideal but would anybody storm into their bosses office telling him he is a tool knowing full well without him he ends up with no job. Sympathise no doubt but I am a realist.

When a bank lends you money to buy your house they don't tell you what colour to paint it

And when a privately owned public house is flattened, neither you or anyone else should get involved...

I am a big Cardiff fan nothing compared to some but my 1st game was oxford home 4-1 loss Paul Moody Hat trick. Vincent Tan has invested loads of money for a return no doubt but otherwise we would be a struggling team at best. We seam to think that we as fans choose colour of kit identity etc. but the truth is if you loaned anybody the amount of money Tan has invested I would want everything Tan has asked for, im not a Tan fan but I got to admit loan or equity without Tan we would be a Leeds bringing in shit players with their own packed lunches. Yes we should tell him colour change is not ideal but would anybody storm into their bosses office telling him he is a tool knowing full well without him he ends up with no job. Sympathise no doubt but I am a realist.

We've all watched cardiff struggle for our whole lives and they were the better days. Last seasons short lived PL was the most shallow and unenjoyable season I've ever witnessed because regardless of our results, before the rebrand we were always proud of who we were but now I cant even recognise my team when they run out onto the field

there wasnt one fan that was not enthusiastic , chuffed, and delighted after the games against City and the Jacks.........so was it the rebrand.?

it's disappointing that the so called leaders of our supporter groups have not got together and are yet to take Vincent Tan seriously on his offer of compromise. It does appear our leaders are lacking the skills of negotiation, surely with red on the field and blue off it things can only get better as we are now in a good position to negotiate should our leaders take the right approach. Common ground needs to be established before the season starts such as uncompromising support of our team during this promotion attempt, continue wearing blue however silently rejecting the re-brand.I would settle for blue home and red away with the traditional bluebird badge at home and the new badge away.

I am a supporter since 1970

The various supporter groups have tried very hard to discuss such issues with Vincent Tan. As Annis has said elsewhere in this thread many attempts have been made to have such a debate but all have been cancelled , usually at short notice. The only time Mr Tan has met with fans` groups was for a brief half hour session where he basically talked at the people present and listened to nothing they said to him.
If I am correct the 'meetings' were prior to hi compromise offer, so he has listened.

BUT SEVERAL ATTEMPTS HAVE BEEN MADE SINCE THAT INITIAL MEETING TO SET UP A FURTHER MEETING TO DISCUSS THIS OPENLY AND HONESTLY , AND ALL SUCH REQUESTS HAVE BEEN IGNORED.



The so called offer of compromise has so many strings attached to it that it is no compromise at all. No meeting to discuss rebranding at all unless and until the club is promoted to the Premier League (may take several seasons) and then only a "compromise" that meets Tan`s own wishes (so probably no compromise at all).

I listened carefully to the interview and in short what he said was - look get behind the team ,let's get back to the PL and at that point I'll talk a compromise kit (but if I'm going to back down give me some space to do it gracefully). - If you and your gang had any sense you would engage with him on that and put the ball in his court to respond in good faith in due course. There's no way it can change this season so don't be so blinkered.

I ALSO LISTENED CAREFULLY TO THE INTERVIEW AND DISCUSSED IT WITH THE INTERVIEWER. GETTING BACK TO THE PREMIER LEAGUE FIRST IS JUST A DELAYING TACTIC (IT COULD TAKE AGES), NOT A COMPROMISE. NO-ONE IS SUGGESTING NOT GETTING BEHIND THE TEAM - EVERYONE DID LAST SEASON DESPITE SUCH STRONG FEELINGS AGAINST THE REBRAND AND WILL DO AGAIN THIS COMING SEASON. THERE IS NO VALID REASON WHY MR TAN CANNOT SIT DOWN NOW AND DISCUSS/AGREE A COMPROMISE FOR NEXT SEASON (WHATEVER DIVISON WE ARE IN).THAT GIVES PLENTY OF TIME FOR HIM TO AGREE SOMETHING THAT SAVES HIM SOME "FACE".
I AM NOT A MEMBER OF ANY "GANG" AS YOU PUT IT , JUST SEEK TO REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF TRUST MEMBERS AS THEY VOTED.BASED ON THAT INITIAL MEETING WITH MR TAN , THESE VIEWS ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE VIEWS OF THE ELECTED BOARD OF THE SUPPORTERS CLUB AND THE DISABLED SUPPORTERS WHO WERE BOTH PRESENT AT THAT MEETING.
I HAVE NEVER SUGGESTED THAT THINGS CAN CHANGE THIS SEASON (ALTHOUGH THEY COULD HAVE SHOULD MR TAN HAVE BEEN WILLING TO DISCUSS THESE THINGS WHEN THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY MONTHS AGO.

I truly believe that Mr Tan will never wish to have an honest and open debate over the rebranding or indeed any other issue involving the football club as he simply couldn`t handle people putting logical arguments to him or failing to "bow down" unconditionally to his views as he is used to with his employees. For instance , a live television debate independently chaired would make both sides` views clear but can you really see him agreeing to that or the club Chairman risking him doing so?
Why should he do that? What a waste of time. Listen to the Trust? ha ha ha. The cabal who gave Malky the life presidency or whatever as an anti-Tan gesture. Get real.

I WAS ONLY GIVING AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT AN OPEN AND HONEST DEBATE ON THE TOPIC COULD INVOLVE. I CLEARLY SAID I DIDN`T EXPECT IT TO HAPPEN. WHY SHOULDN`T HE LISTEN TO THE TRUST AND THE OTHER ELECTED SUPPORTERS GROUPS? AND WHY IS THE TRUST A"CABAL" ? I HAVE ALREADY CLEARLY EXPLAINED THAT HONARARY MEMBERSHIP (NOT LIFE PRESIDENCY AS YOU DESCRIBE IT) WAS A THANK YOU FOR PROMOTION AND NOT AT ALL AN "ANTI-TAN GESTURE". I KNOW THAT TO BE A FACT BECAUSE I WAS AT THE MEETING WHERE IT WAS DECIDED UPON.

Why should fans be limited to a silent protest against the kit change? Who sets the rules for what they can or can`t do? You? Vincent Tan?

Wear as many blue shirts and make as much money as you like, just don't be offensive, chant nasty chants and generally poison the atmosphere. Like I said publicly accept his compromise and put the ball in his court. If you want Tan out, the quickest way is to get back to the PL and let him secure his exit (without jeopardising the stability of the club).

WHO IS MAKING MONEY FROM BLUE SHIRT SALES? CERTAINLY NOT THE TRUST , AND THE MANUFACTURER IS ALSO MAKING VERY LITTLE AS I UNDERSTAND IT FROM PHIL JONES WHO HAS DONE SUCH A GREAT JOB IN KICK STARTING AND OVERSEEING THE INITIATIVE.
I PERSONALLY DON`T CHANT "NASTY CHANTS" BUT ALSO DON`T FEEL I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL OTHERS WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT DO TO EXPRESS THEIR DISASTISFACTION. WHY DO YOU FEEL YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT?

ALSO FROM A PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW , I HAVE STATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT I DO NOT WANT VINCENT TAN OUT OF THE CLUB ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS I WANT HIM TO CHANGE HIS ATTITUDE AND APPROACH , BUT THE LATTER ROUTE SEEMS INCREASINGLY UNLIKELY AS TIME PROGRESSES - AS WITNESSED BY THE ONGOING SACKINGS OF ALL WHO DISAGREE WITH HIM.

I have been a fan since 1962.

Then you ought to have a little more perspective and be less parochial,particularly as a professional man. I suggest you have lost all balance on this issue and your outpourings should be treated accordingly.

I HAVE PLENTY OF PERSPECTIVE THANKS AND , AS A PROFESSIONAL MAN , AM ASTOUNDED AND DEPERATELY DISAPPOINTED AT THE THOROUGHLY UNPROFESSIONAL WAY IN WHICH THE CLUB HAS BEEN RUN. FOLLOWING THE DEBACLE THAT WAS THE HAMMAM/RIDSDALE REIGNS I EXPECTED FAR BETTER FROM VINCENT TAN BUT CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE CLUB (MARKETING , PR , COST CONTROLS ETC) HAVE GOT EVEN WORSE.

I APPRECIATE THAT OTHERS MAY HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE VIEW , BUT I DO NOT REGARD MY CRITICISMS TO BE "OUTPOURINGS" BUT REASONED ARGUMENTS AS TO HOW THE CLUB COULD DO SUCH MUCH BETTER SO EASILY SHOULD IT CHOOSE TO DO SO.


There you go again. Your hatred of Mr Tan shines through.Objectivity switched off.No reason whatsoever.you're worse than one of those Cardiff blues fans sitting in the Goat Major.
Marketing -no worse or better than before but there has been a constant in this and who I believe left the club some weeks ago.
PR - well it was a tricky situation to have your manager and his agent leaking provocative and destabilising snippets to the national press
Cost control- do you mean the transfer fees/budgeting which was trusted to M M and his crony? Out of his depth and out of control and you gave him a medal as a deliberate slight to Mr Tan. That displayed a total lack of perspective, balance and good sense.

And stop rattling on about corporate governance. I'd bin that copy of the Cadbury report if I were you.

I suggest a period of honest reflection would do you good.

Finally f.a.o. chockle the grass -do one.

I don`t hate Vincent Tan - I don`t know the man. I hate what he has done in his approach to Cardiff City fans which is a separate issue. I am quite happy to take an objective view of his plans and intentions , but this is extremely difficult when he is unable to communicate what they are , even to the club`s directors. I think he is very unskilled in man management and PR matters and should leave them alone. He obviously believes he has such skills and doesn`t need to employ anyone else with them.

The marketing has got worse recently. Last season the club seemed to be restricted to using its valuable electronic advertising space for either League sponsors (as they were obliged to do) or for Vincent Tan`s own companies. So a missed opportunity to earn income from full commercial rate advertising by independent companies. And do you not agree that PR emanating from the club has been a disaster? I agree that it is very tricky to have leaks of damaging snippets to the press , but these came as much from Vincent Tan himself (without prior discussion with the club`s board or legal advisers) as from the likes of Mackay and Moody. He can hardly complain about leaks being unfair when he does it himself.

I agree that Mackay and Moody must take blame for overspend on players. But so must Simon Lim (more so in my view)who was the man who actually committed the club to that spend and to Vincent Tan for employing such an individual who he knew had no knowledge of such matters. Simon Lim has now gone of course , but to be replaced by an individual with seemingly a similar lack of knowledge or experience , so what lesson has been learned or taken on board by the owner?

You keep repeating the claim that the Trust gave Malky Mackay honorary membership of the Trust just to spite Vincent Tan. I can only repeat my clear previous statements , based on the fact I was actually there when the decision was made, that this is simply untrue and that it was purely as a thank you to a manager who got the club promoted to the top level for the first time in over 50 years. Mr tan wasn`t even mentioned in the discussions leading to that decision.

I raise the corporate governance issue as one which has had a specific adverse impact on the club , as evidenced by the transfer losses and the lack of any sensible decision making framework rather than any theoretical basis such as the Cadbury report. I am also well aware that Mehmet Dalman regards corporate governance as a key issue to be addressed at the club. Were you aware that he left his previous role as Chair of ENRC in Kazahkstan because of his publicly stated concerns over the lack of it there and the impact on his own reputation as a former main board director of a German bank if he failed to address the issue. Were you also aware that he has openly stated that his corporate governance concerns at CCFC when he arrived included the lack of formal recorded board meetings before he arrived , the "leaks" of sensitive information by senior employees and directors , and the number of Malaysian directors on the holding company board who appeared to make no positive contribution whatsoever to the football club? Now it appears that there are proper meetings but , if you believe Carl and Annis` posts on here , the leaks still continue and the "of no use" directors position is yet to be resolved.

Keith















]

None of us work for Tan so that argument doesn't wash.

We've all watched a struggling team and at times and I'm sure many would again.

Quote: "We've ALL watched a struggling team..."

Hmmmm, I don't think so, fella. A few thousand apart (no doubt you are one of them ) most Cardiff City fans have only really seen the good days

Point taken chief

The hatred is because of the fact it doesn't feel like Cardiff City anymore and i don't find it enjoyable going down there anymore, ripped the heart and soul out of the club. I have stopped going for the time being, and it's Tans fault.

Sorry, but you cannot blame Tan completely for the lack of atmosphere. That, in part, is still the remnants of the stadium move and (latterly) the larger 'general' support the club now has. The latter are simply not as "up for it" as the small but fiercely passionate crowds were back in Ninian Park

Not 'knocking' anyone for that; it's a simple fact that those times have gone for good and a new style of fan has arrived

The fact that you claim to have "stopped going for now" is largely down to you, fella, the same as others who have done the same

Wild horses wouldn't drag me away from supporting Cardiff City FC on match day and for 90 minutes at least, I am able to forget about our temporary owner and support our team on the pitch come rain, shine, champagne or shite!

This thread reminds me of the bloke who asked a girl if she'd sleep with him for a million quid and she said yes. He asked if she'd sleep with him for thirty quid, she said "what do you think I am"? He said. "we've established what you are, its just a matter of negotiating a sensible price.

There are those who are willing to get screwed by Tan for the sake of a season in the PL, and there are those who want nothing to do with him.

Only sayin' like.

The hatred is because of the fact it doesn't feel like Cardiff City anymore and i don't find it enjoyable going down there anymore, ripped the heart and soul out of the club. I have stopped going for the time being, and it's Tans fault.

Sorry, but you cannot blame Tan completely for the lack of atmosphere. That, in part, is still the remnants of the stadium move and (latterly) the larger 'general' support the club now has. The latter are simply not as "up for it" as the small but fiercely passionate crowds were back in Ninian Park

Not 'knocking' anyone for that; it's a simple fact that those times have gone for good and a new style of fan has arrived

The fact that you claim to have "stopped going for now" is largely down to you, fella, the same as others who have done the same

Wild horses wouldn't drag me away from supporting Cardiff City FC on match day and for 90 minutes at least, I am able to forget about our temporary owner and support our team on the pitch come rain, shine, champagne or shite!

I didn't say anything about atmosphere. And yes it is Tans fault il not going down, if we were still blue and our original badge without all the stupid on goings behind the scene, I'd still be going. Tans at fault for that. Clubs not the same anymore, it feels fake.

There you go again. Your hatred of Mr Tan shines through.Objectivity switched off.No reason whatsoever.you're worse than one of those Cardiff blues fans sitting in the Goat Major.
Marketing -no worse or better than before but there has been a constant in this and who I believe left the club some weeks ago.
PR - well it was a tricky situation to have your manager and his agent leaking provocative and destabilising snippets to the national press
Cost control- do you mean the transfer fees/budgeting which was trusted to M M and his crony? Out of his depth and out of control and you gave him a medal as a deliberate slight to Mr Tan. That displayed a total lack of perspective, balance and good sense.

And stop rattling on about corporate governance. I'd bin that copy of the Cadbury report if I were you.

I suggest a period of honest reflection would do you good.

Finally f.a.o. chockle the grass -do one.

I don`t hate Vincent Tan - I don`t know the man. I hate what he has done in his approach to Cardiff City fans which is a separate issue. I am quite happy to take an objective view of his plans and intentions , but this is extremely difficult when he is unable to communicate what they are , even to the club`s directors. I think he is very unskilled in man management and PR matters and should leave them alone. He obviously believes he has such skills and doesn`t need to employ anyone else with them.

[color=#FF0000][color=#FF0000]
Firstly I suggest you read the original letter/message issued by DT at the time of the rebrand announcement and Mr Tan's subsequent interviews which might give you a clue. I suspect these are more reliable than anything that came from the lips of Mr Ridsdale. And as for personnel, he obviously has to have people in place he can trust and rather a lot of people seem to have let him down. I doubt that in reality he has a huge day to day involvement and with the new people in post perhaps we will see some continuity.
[/color][/color]The marketing has got worse recently. Last season the club seemed to be restricted to using its valuable electronic advertising space for either League sponsors (as they were obliged to do) or for Vincent Tan`s own companies. So a missed opportunity to earn income from full commercial rate advertising by independent companies. [color=#FF0000][color=#FF0000]As far as I am concerned he is entitled to do this given the scale of his investment. Not unusual e.g. Newcastle/ Sports Direct and Man City/Etihad and general marketing has been shite for ever. I hope they do appoint a new marketing person
[/color][/color]
And do you not agree that PR emanating from the club has been a disaster? I agree that it is very tricky to have leaks of damaging snippets to the press , but these came as much from Vincent Tan himself (without prior discussion with the club`s board or legal advisers) as from the likes of Mackay and Moody. He can hardly complain about leaks being unfair when he does it himself. [color=#FF0000]Not in the early stages of the Malky affair as far as I could tell - only possibly at the end(you may mean the wages disclosure)and not directly from him at any point I suggest. You think he picked up the phone to the reporter on the Sun or whatever? I am not standing up for the rebrand but this was fully backed by your mate Malky - almost had carpe diem on the badge don't forget. The criticism I would have of Mr Tan is that he didn't get a PR team on the case when things stated to go sour and got left way behind and/or sacked Malky after the Stoke/Palace games.

[/color]I agree that Mackay and Moody must take blame for overspend on players. But so must Simon Lim (more so in my view)who was the man who actually committed the club to that spend and to Vincent Tan for employing such an individual who he knew had no knowledge of such matters. Simon Lim has now gone of course , but to be replaced by an individual with seemingly a similar lack of knowledge or experience , so what lesson has been learned or taken on board by the owner[color=#FF0000]?[color=#FF0000]I think his new team look to be a much more organised bunch. It seems to me that Mr Tan put a huge amount of faith in Malky and was royally screwed.
[/color]
[/color]You keep repeating the claim that the Trust gave Malky Mackay honorary membership of the Trust just to spite Vincent Tan. I can only repeat my clear previous statements , based on the fact I was actually there when the decision was made, that this is simply untrue and that it was purely as a thank you to a manager who got the club promoted to the top level for the first time in over 50 years. Mr tan wasn`t even mentioned in the discussions leading to that decision. [color=#FF0000]See above, naiive at best.

[/color]I raise the corporate governance issue as one which has had a specific adverse impact on the club , as evidenced by the transfer losses and the lack of any sensible decision making framework rather than any theoretical basis such as the Cadbury report. I am also well aware that Mehmet Dalman regards corporate governance as a key issue to be addressed at the club. Were you aware that he left his previous role as Chair of ENRC in Kazahkstan because of his publicly stated concerns over the lack of it there and the impact on his own reputation as a former main board director of a German bank if he failed to address the issue. Were you also aware that he has openly stated that his corporate governance concerns at CCFC when he arrived included the lack of formal recorded board meetings before he arrived , the "leaks" of sensitive information by senior employees and directors , and the number of Malaysian directors on the holding company board who appeared to make no positive contribution whatsoever to the football club[color=#FF0000]?[color=#FF0000][color=#FF0000][color=#FF0000]color=#FF0000].[color=#FF0000] If they are hangers on and have no input what does it matter? As to leaks, well, obviously there have been some changes very recently. I'm not going to speculate on this board as to where in the main they arose but my guess is that they will be fewer from now on in and it's not just one person.
[/color][/color]No problem with those issues being resolved and you should be welcoming the new arrangements and not griping (again).[/color]
[/color]Now it appears that there are proper meetings but , if you believe Carl and Annis` posts on here , the leaks still continue and the "of no use" directors position is yet to be resolved[
[/color][/color]Keith

[color=#FF0000]Your post begs a response. - See above.I would urge you and the Trust to have a serious think about what you are doing and how best to develop a positive engagement. Less parochial,appreciate what you are dealing with and adapt accordingly.


[/color]

It's down to frustration

We all recognise the investment Tan has made in the club and if it were not for the rebrand he would be treated with the utmost respect and reverence by everybody on here because of his financial investment.

However it's his stubbornness and unwillingness to recognise the failure and PR disaster that the rebrand has been is what attacks the venom.

It's obvious to everyone bar one man.

It could be oh so different but one mans ego is stopping the decision that could change all this and bring a disunited club back together again and we would be better and stronger going forward as a club as a result.

It's just plain bonkers really.

This is how I feel about it all