Tan: Fans should be grateful for investment.

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Which fans did, I didn't !
The only fans I seen beg for it was Gwyn on the news he didn't speak for me or the majorityt they should of done a season ticket ballot
You mean the country which chooses lately to play in blue as they see at as "lucky" instead ofthe black and gold , who's tourism logo is blue and even Tans Beyjaya company logo is blue , is that the far east you mean?

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego ... ot-yellow/

you know the far east isn't just one country right? its just a very small part of it.

and the tourism logo isnt designed to attract people from the area..as they're already there..its designed to attract people in europe and the americas, where red and blue hold entirely different cultural significances. so just as a "for dummies" example, west to east: use red. east to west: use blue.

i actually hold the same stance on the rebrand as you. but if pro-blues keep trotting out the same old inaccurate crap then it does nothing to help our cause

ofcourse I do but he is from Malaysia and focusing on that

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Which fans did, I didn't !
The only fans I seen beg for it was Gwyn on the news he didn't speak for me or the majorityt they should of done a season ticket ballot
You mean the country which chooses lately to play in blue as they see at as "lucky" instead ofthe black and gold , who's tourism logo is blue and even Tans Beyjaya company logo is blue , is that the far east you mean?

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego ... ot-yellow/

you know the far east isn't just one country right? its just a very small part of it.

and the tourism logo isnt designed to attract people from the area..as they're already there..its designed to attract people in europe and the americas, where red and blue hold entirely different cultural significances. so just as a "for dummies" example, west to east: use red. east to west: use blue.

i actually hold the same stance on the rebrand as you. but if pro-blues keep trotting out the same old inaccurate crap then it does nothing to help our cause

ofcourse I do but he is from Malaysia and focusing on that

i believe china is his primary market as he is currently building the biggest shopping centre in the continent there

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Which fans did, I didn't !
The only fans I seen beg for it was Gwyn on the news he didn't speak for me or the majorityt they should of done a season ticket ballot
You mean the country which chooses lately to play in blue as they see at as "lucky" instead ofthe black and gold , who's tourism logo is blue and even Tans Beyjaya company logo is blue , is that the far east you mean?

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego ... ot-yellow/

you know the far east isn't just one country right? its just a very small part of it.

and the tourism logo isnt designed to attract people from the area..as they're already there..its designed to attract people in europe and the americas, where red and blue hold entirely different cultural significances. so just as a "for dummies" example, west to east: use red. east to west: use blue.

i actually hold the same stance on the rebrand as you. but if pro-blues keep trotting out the same old inaccurate crap then it does nothing to help our cause

of course I do but he is from Malaysia and focusing on that . What I have said isn't inaccurate either. The Malaysian team choose to play in blue as they thought it was lucky. And the tourism logo is blue and Tans logo is blue. I'm pointing out that it's absolutely nothing to do with promoting us over there , we are red because Tan likes red no other reason

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Which fans did, I didn't !
The only fans I seen beg for it was Gwyn on the news he didn't speak for me or the majorityt they should of done a season ticket ballot
You mean the country which chooses lately to play in blue as they see at as "lucky" instead ofthe black and gold , who's tourism logo is blue and even Tans Beyjaya company logo is blue , is that the far east you mean?

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego ... ot-yellow/

you know the far east isn't just one country right? its just a very small part of it.

and the tourism logo isnt designed to attract people from the area..as they're already there..its designed to attract people in europe and the americas, where red and blue hold entirely different cultural significances. so just as a "for dummies" example, west to east: use red. east to west: use blue.

i actually hold the same stance on the rebrand as you. but if pro-blues keep trotting out the same old inaccurate crap then it does nothing to help our cause

ofcourse I do but he is from Malaysia and focusing on that

i believe china is his primary market as he is currently building the biggest shopping centre in the continent there

still don't need to be red to be promoted over there just ask Chelsea and Man City, success is what sells shirts nothing else, we are red because Tan likes red no other reason

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Which fans did, I didn't !
The only fans I seen beg for it was Gwyn on the news he didn't speak for me or the majorityt they should of done a season ticket ballot
You mean the country which chooses lately to play in blue as they see at as "lucky" instead ofthe black and gold , who's tourism logo is blue and even Tans Beyjaya company logo is blue , is that the far east you mean?

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego ... ot-yellow/

you know the far east isn't just one country right? its just a very small part of it.

and the tourism logo isnt designed to attract people from the area..as they're already there..its designed to attract people in europe and the americas, where red and blue hold entirely different cultural significances. so just as a "for dummies" example, west to east: use red. east to west: use blue.

i actually hold the same stance on the rebrand as you. but if pro-blues keep trotting out the same old inaccurate crap then it does nothing to help our cause

ofcourse I do but he is from Malaysia and focusing on that

i believe china is his primary market as he is currently building the biggest shopping centre in the continent there

still don't need to be red to be promoted over there just ask Chelsea and Man City, success is what sells shirts nothing else, we are red because Tan likes red no other reason

yeah im not disagreeing with you on that, im just saying it makes the pro blue argument look weak when people come out with crap thats been disproved time and again. not you specificly tho mate obviously

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Which fans did, I didn't !
The only fans I seen beg for it was Gwyn on the news he didn't speak for me or the majorityt they should of done a season ticket ballot
You mean the country which chooses lately to play in blue as they see at as "lucky" instead ofthe black and gold , who's tourism logo is blue and even Tans Beyjaya company logo is blue , is that the far east you mean?

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego ... ot-yellow/

you know the far east isn't just one country right? its just a very small part of it.

and the tourism logo isnt designed to attract people from the area..as they're already there..its designed to attract people in europe and the americas, where red and blue hold entirely different cultural significances. so just as a "for dummies" example, west to east: use red. east to west: use blue.

i actually hold the same stance on the rebrand as you. but if pro-blues keep trotting out the same old inaccurate crap then it does nothing to help our cause

ofcourse I do but he is from Malaysia and focusing on that

i believe china is his primary market as he is currently building the biggest shopping centre in the continent there

still don't need to be red to be promoted over there just ask Chelsea and Man City, success is what sells shirts nothing else, we are red because Tan likes red no other reason

yeah im not disagreeing with you on that, im just saying it makes the pro blue argument look weak when people come out with crap thats been disproved time and again. not you specificly tho mate obviously

fair eenough, I know rebrand threads have been done to death on here and tbh they do annoy me as nothing more can be said on the subject (but cant help reply as I hate the rebrand)now until we return to blue (live and hope) ,just hate the red and get wound up by it.

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

Where this all fails is in the actual brand we already had. A strong, memorable name inextricably linked to a colour.

The point is that in our case, the colour is crucial to the name: BLUEbirds.

I have said this before, but if you adopt a colour-change, but the club nickname is not colour-specific, it hardly matters.

These are non-football examples (so hopefully won't cause world war 3.

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Makes me sick when Tan comes out with such patronising crap.

Well Tan you might have the likes of Natman Blue, Gwyn Davies and MWY I love Jesus on board but for the rest of us you have not won over. That I know is eating into you and the rest of your arse lickers. Perhaps you might realise as well the likes of Borley and Isaacs are scamming you.

Grateful....wishful thinking on your behalf. At least you know where you stand with the likes of me unlike those I have mentioned.

Ian, I think it's eating into you and other pro blues far more than its eating into me. But what happened to no name calling our sniping? People have been warned for far less than what you've just said there.

Willie, I see your point about the colour. The historical commercial strength of the brand hasn't been great, unlike Liverpool on Manchester clubs. No part due to our lack of success. However, I do think that the potential of of a Bluebird brand in my eyes would be quite strong, but I'm no marketing professional and neither do I have an international portfolio.

Ian, I think it's eating into you and other pro blues far more than its eating into me. But what happened to no name calling our sniping? People have been warned for far less than what you've just said there.

Willie, I see your point about the colour. The historical commercial strength of the brand hasn't been great, unlike Liverpool on Manchester clubs. No part due to our lack of success. However, I do think that the potential of of a Bluebird brand in my eyes would be quite strong, but I'm no marketing professional and neither do I have an international portfolio.

Yeah that right Tan is eating into me with his attitude I should be grateful to him. I can imagine the likes of him would like to see the likes of me walk away. Well while the fans want the blue I'm going nowhere.

Tan can stuff his money.

Ian, I think it's eating into you and other pro blues far more than its eating into me. But what happened to no name calling our sniping? People have been warned for far less than what you've just said there.

Willie, I see your point about the colour. The historical commercial strength of the brand hasn't been great, unlike Liverpool on Manchester clubs. No part due to our lack of success. However, I do think that the potential of of a Bluebird brand in my eyes would be quite strong, but I'm no marketing professional and neither do I have an international portfolio.

Yeah that right Tan is eating into me with his attitude I should be grateful to him. I can imagine the likes of him would like to see the likes of me walk away. Well while the fans want the blue I'm going nowhere.

Tan can stuff his money.

Now I definitely think you're reading too much into it

Ian, I think it's eating into you and other pro blues far more than its eating into me. But what happened to no name calling our sniping? People have been warned for far less than what you've just said there.

Willie, I see your point about the colour. The historical commercial strength of the brand hasn't been great, unlike Liverpool on Manchester clubs. No part due to our lack of success. However, I do think that the potential of of a Bluebird brand in my eyes would be quite strong, but I'm no marketing professional and neither do I have an international portfolio.

Yeah that right Tan is eating into me with his attitude I should be grateful to him. I can imagine the likes of him would like to see the likes of me walk away. Well while the fans want the blue I'm going nowhere.

Tan can stuff his money.

Now I definitely think you're reading too much into it

Into what?

Ian, I think it's eating into you and other pro blues far more than its eating into me. But what happened to no name calling our sniping? People have been warned for far less than what you've just said there.

Willie, I see your point about the colour. The historical commercial strength of the brand hasn't been great, unlike Liverpool on Manchester clubs. No part due to our lack of success. However, I do think that the potential of of a Bluebird brand in my eyes would be quite strong, but I'm no marketing professional and neither do I have an international portfolio.

Thanks for that. Not many of us are in the position of commanding a large portfolio so it could be argued that none of us have the insight.

I really do think the Bluebird is a highly marketable, recognisable emblem. Our present badge is a confusing, cluttered design. Are we a Welsh club? Well we are based in Wales in the Capital (sorry Newport, etc.) but our squad is international and our supporters reflect the cosmopolitan nature of the city. No need for the dragon or the daffodil then.

Fire and Passion - A great mission statement, but open to ridicule if we don't do well.

A plain, stylised Bluebird would convey all we need to.

The 3 colours traditionally adopted by the club are blue, white and yellow. No objection to any colour for the away strip (Swansea's hideous away top last year was their biggest ever seller).

Predominantly blue home kit, any colour away, Bluebird badge. Easy.

Ian, I think it's eating into you and other pro blues far more than its eating into me. But what happened to no name calling our sniping? People have been warned for far less than what you've just said there.

Willie, I see your point about the colour. The historical commercial strength of the brand hasn't been great, unlike Liverpool on Manchester clubs. No part due to our lack of success. However, I do think that the potential of of a Bluebird brand in my eyes would be quite strong, but I'm no marketing professional and neither do I have an international portfolio.

Thanks for that. Not many of us are in the position of commanding a large portfolio so it could be argued that none of us have the insight.

I really do think the Bluebird is a highly marketable, recognisable emblem. Our present badge is a confusing, cluttered design. Are we a Welsh club? Well we are based in Wales in the Capital (sorry Newport, etc.) but our squad is international and our supporters reflect the cosmopolitan nature of the city. No need for the dragon or the daffodil then.

Fire and Passion - A great mission statement, but open to ridicule if we don't do well.

A plain, stylised Bluebird would convey all we need to.

The 3 colours traditionally adopted by the club are blue, white and yellow. No objection to any colour for the away strip (Swansea's hideous away top last year was their biggest ever seller).

Predominantly blue home kit, any colour away, Bluebird badge. Easy.

Perhaps we should give him the benefit of the doubt for a while and just see what happens and comes of it?

Ian, I think it's eating into you and other pro blues far more than its eating into me. But what happened to no name calling our sniping? People have been warned for far less than what you've just said there.

Willie, I see your point about the colour. The historical commercial strength of the brand hasn't been great, unlike Liverpool on Manchester clubs. No part due to our lack of success. However, I do think that the potential of of a Bluebird brand in my eyes would be quite strong, but I'm no marketing professional and neither do I have an international portfolio.

Yeah that right Tan is eating into me with his attitude I should be grateful to him. I can imagine the likes of him would like to see the likes of me walk away. Well while the fans want the blue I'm going nowhere.

Tan can stuff his money.

Now I definitely think you're reading too much into it

You're making out that Tan has a personal vendetta against you.
Into what?

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Which fans did, I didn't !
The only fans I seen beg for it was Gwyn on the news he didn't speak for me or the majorityt they should of done a season ticket ballot
You mean the country which chooses lately to play in blue as they see at as "lucky" instead ofthe black and gold , who's tourism logo is blue and even Tans Beyjaya company logo is blue , is that the far east you mean?

1000000000000000000000000000000000000% correct

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

The big investment in the "Great Mall" is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia - if the opposition gets in no more favours to gain lucrative contracts. I agree not linked to CCFC at all , except to the extent that it might prove to be a financial drain on Vincent Tan.

I don`t see how a change to red might be felt to be a stronger brand. As I point out , blue doesn`t seem to be a problem for either the Chinese business community or its football fans.

Not saying I disagree with you on that Keith. Just that it wasn't our decision and maybe we should give tan the benefit of the doubt on that front bearing in mind his experience. We will see in the end

Not saying I disagree with you on that Keith. Just that it wasn't our decision and maybe we should give tan the benefit of the doubt on that front bearing in mind his experience. We will see in the end

What experience in football has he had then ? Many top businessman have come and failed including the likes of Alan Sugar who has stated that buying a football club was one of the worst things he has ever done

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

The big investment in the "Great Mall" is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia - if the opposition gets in no more favours to gain lucrative contracts. I agree not linked to CCFC at all , except to the extent that it might prove to be a financial drain on Vincent Tan.

I don`t see how a change to red might be felt to be a stronger brand. As I point out , blue doesn`t seem to be a problem for either the Chinese business community or its football fans.

What are you on about ? "Is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia." Firstly the Mall has been on the drawing board since 2003 a year after Berjaya bought Farmland some 40 k from Bejing. In fact over the last 3 years Tan had tried to offload it via a number methods jointly or otherwise. The first phase totaling almost 800.000 sq mtrs
Was due for completetion last year with the final 2 phases completed by 2017. Totaling in all 1.8 million sq mtrs. Tan first invested in the area in 2001 in filterisation and inferstucture all part of the plan.Regarding the color you like the rest of us have no idea just part of a deal that most of us accepted when given the choice. Some have stuck by their word others have welched. I never realised that Tan was that good he would plan for political change some 15 years in advance. Absolute nonsense if you expect people to swallow that. It was certainly no plan to counteract political change in fact financially its done Tan no favours what so ever.

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

The big investment in the "Great Mall" is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia - if the opposition gets in no more favours to gain lucrative contracts. I agree not linked to CCFC at all , except to the extent that it might prove to be a financial drain on Vincent Tan.

I don`t see how a change to red might be felt to be a stronger brand. As I point out , blue doesn`t seem to be a problem for either the Chinese business community or its football fans.

What are you on about ? "Is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia." Firstly the Mall has been on the drawing board since 2003 a year after Berjaya bought Farmland some 40 k from Bejing. In fact over the last 3 years Tan had tried to offload it via a number methods jointly or otherwise. The first phase totaling almost 800.000 sq mtrs
Was due for completetion last year with the final 2 phases completed by 2017. Totaling in all 1.8 million sq mtrs. Tan first invested in the area in 2001 in filterisation and inferstucture all part of the plan.Regarding the color you like the rest of us have no idea just part of a deal that most of us accepted when given the choice. Some have stuck by their word others have welched. I never realised that Tan was that good he would plan for political change some 15 years in advance. Absolute nonsense if you expect people to swallow that. It was certainly no plan to counteract political change in fact financially its done Tan no favours what so ever.

its one thing buying a bit of cheap farm land and getting planning permission , but when did he start the build project and putting substantial money into it? And analyse where the majority of Berjaya and VT personal company investment has been made recently.

When were people given a choice about accepting the deal you refer to? Wasn`t it just imposed without consultation or explanation? And why , even after 2 years since its imposition , has there been no cogent explanation of any business reason for the colour change? In the absence of such an explanation for such a long time , is it not reasonable to assume there isn`t one?

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

The big investment in the "Great Mall" is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia - if the opposition gets in no more favours to gain lucrative contracts. I agree not linked to CCFC at all , except to the extent that it might prove to be a financial drain on Vincent Tan.

I don`t see how a change to red might be felt to be a stronger brand. As I point out , blue doesn`t seem to be a problem for either the Chinese business community or its football fans.

What are you on about ? "Is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia." Firstly the Mall has been on the drawing board since 2003 a year after Berjaya bought Farmland some 40 k from Bejing. In fact over the last 3 years Tan had tried to offload it via a number methods jointly or otherwise. The first phase totaling almost 800.000 sq mtrs
Was due for completetion last year with the final 2 phases completed by 2017. Totaling in all 1.8 million sq mtrs. Tan first invested in the area in 2001 in filterisation and inferstucture all part of the plan.Regarding the color you like the rest of us have no idea just part of a deal that most of us accepted when given the choice. Some have stuck by their word others have welched. I never realised that Tan was that good he would plan for political change some 15 years in advance. Absolute nonsense if you expect people to swallow that. It was certainly no plan to counteract political change in fact financially its done Tan no favours what so ever.

its one thing buying a bit of cheap farm land and getting planning permission , but when did he start the build project and putting substantial money into it? And analyse where the majority of Berjaya and VT personal company investment has been made recently.

When were people given a choice about accepting the deal you refer to? Wasn`t it just imposed without consultation or explanation? And why , even after 2 years since its imposition , has there been no cogent explanation of any business reason for the colour change? In the absence of such an explanation for such a long time , is it not reasonable to assume there isn`t one?

Are you the bloke that gets up at the shareholder's meetings and asks some questions on the accounts and looks smug about it afterwards?
Were you one of the prime movers in giving Mackay the lifetime Trust membership? Sure that gave the Trust a load of credibility with the owner.
Can you claim to know exactly what was in Mr Tan's mind regarding the change. I don't condone it but perhaps he had a good business reason. And why the f**k should he tell you?

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

The big investment in the "Great Mall" is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia - if the opposition gets in no more favours to gain lucrative contracts. I agree not linked to CCFC at all , except to the extent that it might prove to be a financial drain on Vincent Tan.

I don`t see how a change to red might be felt to be a stronger brand. As I point out , blue doesn`t seem to be a problem for either the Chinese business community or its football fans.

What are you on about ? "Is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia." Firstly the Mall has been on the drawing board since 2003 a year after Berjaya bought Farmland some 40 k from Bejing. In fact over the last 3 years Tan had tried to offload it via a number methods jointly or otherwise. The first phase totaling almost 800.000 sq mtrs
Was due for completetion last year with the final 2 phases completed by 2017. Totaling in all 1.8 million sq mtrs. Tan first invested in the area in 2001 in filterisation and inferstucture all part of the plan.Regarding the color you like the rest of us have no idea just part of a deal that most of us accepted when given the choice. Some have stuck by their word others have welched. I never realised that Tan was that good he would plan for political change some 15 years in advance. Absolute nonsense if you expect people to swallow that. It was certainly no plan to counteract political change in fact financially its done Tan no favours what so ever.

its one thing buying a bit of cheap farm land and getting planning permission , but when did he start the build project and putting substantial money into it? And analyse where the majority of Berjaya and VT personal company investment has been made recently.

When were people given a choice about accepting the deal you refer to? Wasn`t it just imposed without consultation or explanation? And why , even after 2 years since its imposition , has there been no cogent explanation of any business reason for the colour change? In the absence of such an explanation for such a long time , is it not reasonable to assume there isn`t one?

Are you the bloke that gets up at the shareholder's meetings and asks some questions on the accounts and looks smug about it afterwards?
Were you one of the prime movers in giving Mackay the lifetime Trust membership? Sure that gave the Trust a load of credibility with the owner.
Can you claim to know exactly what was in Mr Tan's mind regarding the change. I don't condone it but perhaps he had a good business reason. And why the f**k should he tell you?

I have asked questions at shareholders` meetings in the past , although there hasn`t been one for some time. I have done so based on questions Trust members have asked me to , and the financial element of it has been entrusted to me because that is what I do as a profession. All questions asked and all answers given are reported back to members on the Trust messageboard. I apologise to you (even though I haven`t a clue who you are from your messageboard name) if you felt that you think that is "smug".

As a Trust board member , yes I did agree with the vote to offer Malky Mackay an honorary Trust membership as a thank you for being the manager that got us promoted to the to the top division for the first time in over 50 years.

I have never claimed to know what was in Vincent Tan`s mind regarding the colour change , and that is the point - no-one does , not even successive CEOs of the club. I don`t feel Mr Tan owes me a personal explanation of his reasons , but do feel that he has a strong moral obligation to explain it to the fans as a whole. In the absence of any sensible explanation , then he shouldn`t complain if people question the logic of it. I also feel that it is accepted corporate governance that he should at least explain himself to the club`s board of directors (from the Chairman down , they have stated that he never has).

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

The big investment in the "Great Mall" is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia - if the opposition gets in no more favours to gain lucrative contracts. I agree not linked to CCFC at all , except to the extent that it might prove to be a financial drain on Vincent Tan.

I don`t see how a change to red might be felt to be a stronger brand. As I point out , blue doesn`t seem to be a problem for either the Chinese business community or its football fans.

What are you on about ? "Is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia." Firstly the Mall has been on the drawing board since 2003 a year after Berjaya bought Farmland some 40 k from Bejing. In fact over the last 3 years Tan had tried to offload it via a number methods jointly or otherwise. The first phase totaling almost 800.000 sq mtrs
Was due for completetion last year with the final 2 phases completed by 2017. Totaling in all 1.8 million sq mtrs. Tan first invested in the area in 2001 in filterisation and inferstucture all part of the plan.Regarding the color you like the rest of us have no idea just part of a deal that most of us accepted when given the choice. Some have stuck by their word others have welched. I never realised that Tan was that good he would plan for political change some 15 years in advance. Absolute nonsense if you expect people to swallow that. It was certainly no plan to counteract political change in fact financially its done Tan no favours what so ever.

its one thing buying a bit of cheap farm land and getting planning permission , but when did he start the build project and putting substantial money into it? And analyse where the majority of Berjaya and VT personal company investment has been made recently.

When were people given a choice about accepting the deal you refer to? Wasn`t it just imposed without consultation or explanation? And why , even after 2 years since its imposition , has there been no cogent explanation of any business reason for the colour change? In the absence of such an explanation for such a long time , is it not reasonable to assume there isn`t one?

Are you the bloke that gets up at the shareholder's meetings and asks some questions on the accounts and looks smug about it afterwards?
Were you one of the prime movers in giving Mackay the lifetime Trust membership? Sure that gave the Trust a load of credibility with the owner.
Can you claim to know exactly what was in Mr Tan's mind regarding the change. I don't condone it but perhaps he had a good business reason. And why the f**k should he tell you?

I have asked questions at shareholders` meetings in the past , although there hasn`t been one for some time. I have done so based on questions Trust members have asked me to , and the financial element of it has been entrusted to me because that is what I do as a profession. All questions asked and all answers given are reported back to members on the Trust messageboard. I apologise to you (even though I haven`t a clue who you are from your messageboard name) if you felt that you think that is "smug".

As a Trust board member , yes I did agree with the vote to offer Malky Mackay an honorary Trust membership as a thank you for being the manager that got us promoted to the to the top division for the first time in over 50 years.

I have never claimed to know what was in Vincent Tan`s mind regarding the colour change , and that is the point - no-one does , not even successive CEOs of the club. I don`t feel Mr Tan owes me a personal explanation of his reasons , but do feel that he has a strong moral obligation to explain it to the fans as a whole. In the absence of any sensible explanation , then he shouldn`t complain if people question the logic of it. I also feel that it is accepted corporate governance that he should at least explain himself to the club`s board of directors (from the Chairman down , they have stated that he never has).

I can assure you I have a little bit more knowledge on the Mall than what you can Google. Your reasoning in Tans motive for the project couldn't be further from the truth.
Every one who faces up to the fact that Tan said he would ditch the re brand but hold back on investment realised they had a choice.
I made my views quite clear re the mackay
Thing and I'm my view it was to get at Tan.
Or was it coincidence that the trust echo and others all joined forces the same time. Say it how you like the trust like others have welched
Any independent would say that.

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

The big investment in the "Great Mall" is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia - if the opposition gets in no more favours to gain lucrative contracts. I agree not linked to CCFC at all , except to the extent that it might prove to be a financial drain on Vincent Tan.

I don`t see how a change to red might be felt to be a stronger brand. As I point out , blue doesn`t seem to be a problem for either the Chinese business community or its football fans.

What are you on about ? "Is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia." Firstly the Mall has been on the drawing board since 2003 a year after Berjaya bought Farmland some 40 k from Bejing. In fact over the last 3 years Tan had tried to offload it via a number methods jointly or otherwise. The first phase totaling almost 800.000 sq mtrs
Was due for completetion last year with the final 2 phases completed by 2017. Totaling in all 1.8 million sq mtrs. Tan first invested in the area in 2001 in filterisation and inferstucture all part of the plan.Regarding the color you like the rest of us have no idea just part of a deal that most of us accepted when given the choice. Some have stuck by their word others have welched. I never realised that Tan was that good he would plan for political change some 15 years in advance. Absolute nonsense if you expect people to swallow that. It was certainly no plan to counteract political change in fact financially its done Tan no favours what so ever.

its one thing buying a bit of cheap farm land and getting planning permission , but when did he start the build project and putting substantial money into it? And analyse where the majority of Berjaya and VT personal company investment has been made recently.

When were people given a choice about accepting the deal you refer to? Wasn`t it just imposed without consultation or explanation? And why , even after 2 years since its imposition , has there been no cogent explanation of any business reason for the colour change? In the absence of such an explanation for such a long time , is it not reasonable to assume there isn`t one?

Are you the bloke that gets up at the shareholder's meetings and asks some questions on the accounts and looks smug about it afterwards?
Were you one of the prime movers in giving Mackay the lifetime Trust membership? Sure that gave the Trust a load of credibility with the owner.
Can you claim to know exactly what was in Mr Tan's mind regarding the change. I don't condone it but perhaps he had a good business reason. And why the f**k should he tell you?

I have asked questions at shareholders` meetings in the past , although there hasn`t been one for some time. I have done so based on questions Trust members have asked me to , and the financial element of it has been entrusted to me because that is what I do as a profession. All questions asked and all answers given are reported back to members on the Trust messageboard. I apologise to you (even though I haven`t a clue who you are from your messageboard name) if you felt that you think that is "smug".

As a Trust board member , yes I did agree with the vote to offer Malky Mackay an honorary Trust membership as a thank you for being the manager that got us promoted to the to the top division for the first time in over 50 years.

I have never claimed to know what was in Vincent Tan`s mind regarding the colour change , and that is the point - no-one does , not even successive CEOs of the club. I don`t feel Mr Tan owes me a personal explanation of his reasons , but do feel that he has a strong moral obligation to explain it to the fans as a whole. In the absence of any sensible explanation , then he shouldn`t complain if people question the logic of it. I also feel that it is accepted corporate governance that he should at least explain himself to the club`s board of directors (from the Chairman down , they have stated that he never has).

I can assure you I have a little bit more knowledge on the Mall than what you can Google. Your reasoning in Tans motive for the project couldn't be further from the truth.
Every one who faces up to the fact that Tan said he would ditch the re brand but hold back on investment realised they had a choice.
I made my views quite clear re the mackay
Thing and I'm my view it was to get at Tan.
Or was it coincidence that the trust echo and others all joined forces the same time. Say it how you like the trust like others have welched
Any independent would say that.

I am perfectly happy to accept that you may have some more knowledge about the Mall development. Based on your knowledge and your assertion that my reasons for it "couldn`t be further from the truth" , could you say what the reasoning was/is?

Re the Trust awarding life membership to Malky Mackay I can state with certainty that I have more knowledge than you on this as I was present at the Trust board meeting where it was decided and I can categorically state that "to get at Tan" was never given any consideration whatsoever. It was merely as appreciation of a manager that got us promoted to the top tier for the first time in over 50 years - simple as that.

I don`t understand your reference to the Trust has "welched" unless I have misunderstood the meaning of the word and the context in which you use it. In what way has the Trust avoided doing something it promised to do? or indeed the "others(you don`t specify them)" you refer to?

Keith

And then the fans begged him to invest and go ahead with the rebrand. It also says in that article that it wasn't a slight on our history and tradition but to make it more marketable in the far east etc. So why do fans choose to ignore that bit?

Just a thought, but isn't there a equally a contradiction in what you are saying? If tan loves red why are all his other brands Blue?

what i have heard is that it was someone in the wru that gave tan the idea. Welsh being a red colour etc. But this great mall of china makes sense.

1) the Great Mall of China is proving to be a big problem financially - £160m over budget and a year behind schedule in its 5 year build programme. Phase 1 completion now way behind schedule so no income from it until at least October 2014 or beyond (if current attempts to raise new finance for it succeed). The last "great mall" built in China was an unmitigated disaster and remains 98% empty 10 years on.

2) red is not integral to marketing in China anyway

a) Berjaya retains its blue logo in all advertising for it , both on site and elsewhere
b) architects impression drawings of the development show large parts of it will be blue in colour
c) more Chinese top division football teams use blue as their colours than use red

3) Chinese fans and business will only invest large amounts in CCFC if we are successful at the top level for several years. The level of investment will be equally as high (or low) whether we play in red , blue or any other colour - it is the success they will follow not the colour.

Keith, in regards to point 1, this was two years ago we turned red. So recent hiccups in the Great Mall wouldn't be a true reflection on that original decision.

2) As I said, I'm not the marketing guru but I would think a bluebird could be a potentially strong brand but as you say in point 3, it is our historical lack of success that has undermined it. The question is whether you maintain it and develop or try again with a clean slate with something you feel could create a stronger brand. Tan obviously thought the second option was the way to go, whether we agree/like it or not.

The big investment in the "Great Mall" is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia - if the opposition gets in no more favours to gain lucrative contracts. I agree not linked to CCFC at all , except to the extent that it might prove to be a financial drain on Vincent Tan.

I don`t see how a change to red might be felt to be a stronger brand. As I point out , blue doesn`t seem to be a problem for either the Chinese business community or its football fans.

What are you on about ? "Is part of the plan to get out of the risk of upcoming likely political change in Malaysia." Firstly the Mall has been on the drawing board since 2003 a year after Berjaya bought Farmland some 40 k from Bejing. In fact over the last 3 years Tan had tried to offload it via a number methods jointly or otherwise. The first phase totaling almost 800.000 sq mtrs
Was due for completetion last year with the final 2 phases completed by 2017. Totaling in all 1.8 million sq mtrs. Tan first invested in the area in 2001 in filterisation and inferstucture all part of the plan.Regarding the color you like the rest of us have no idea just part of a deal that most of us accepted when given the choice. Some have stuck by their word others have welched. I never realised that Tan was that good he would plan for political change some 15 years in advance. Absolute nonsense if you expect people to swallow that. It was certainly no plan to counteract political change in fact financially its done Tan no favours what so ever.

its one thing buying a bit of cheap farm land and getting planning permission , but when did he start the build project and putting substantial money into it? And analyse where the majority of Berjaya and VT personal company investment has been made recently.

When were people given a choice about accepting the deal you refer to? Wasn`t it just imposed without consultation or explanation? And why , even after 2 years since its imposition , has there been no cogent explanation of any business reason for the colour change? In the absence of such an explanation for such a long time , is it not reasonable to assume there isn`t one?

Are you the bloke that gets up at the shareholder's meetings and asks some questions on the accounts and looks smug about it afterwards?
Were you one of the prime movers in giving Mackay the lifetime Trust membership? Sure that gave the Trust a load of credibility with the owner.
Can you claim to know exactly what was in Mr Tan's mind regarding the change. I don't condone it but perhaps he had a good business reason. And why the f**k should he tell you?

I have asked questions at shareholders` meetings in the past , although there hasn`t been one for some time. I have done so based on questions Trust members have asked me to , and the financial element of it has been entrusted to me because that is what I do as a profession. All questions asked and all answers given are reported back to members on the Trust messageboard. I apologise to you (even though I haven`t a clue who you are from your messageboard name) if you felt that you think that is "smug".

As a Trust board member , yes I did agree with the vote to offer Malky Mackay an honorary Trust membership as a thank you for being the manager that got us promoted to the to the top division for the first time in over 50 years.

I have never claimed to know what was in Vincent Tan`s mind regarding the colour change , and that is the point - no-one does , not even successive CEOs of the club. I don`t feel Mr Tan owes me a personal explanation of his reasons , but do feel that he has a strong moral obligation to explain it to the fans as a whole. In the absence of any sensible explanation , then he shouldn`t complain if people question the logic of it. I also feel that it is accepted corporate governance that he should at least explain himself to the club`s board of directors (from the Chairman down , they have stated that he never has).

I can assure you I have a little bit more knowledge on the Mall than what you can Google. Your reasoning in Tans motive for the project couldn't be further from the truth.
Every one who faces up to the fact that Tan said he would ditch the re brand but hold back on investment realised they had a choice.
I made my views quite clear re the mackay
Thing and I'm my view it was to get at Tan.
Or was it coincidence that the trust echo and others all joined forces the same time. Say it how you like the trust like others have welched
Any independent would say that.

I am perfectly happy to accept that you may have some more knowledge about the Mall development. Based on your knowledge and your assertion that my reasons for it "couldn`t be further from the truth" , could you say what the reasoning was/is?

Re the Trust awarding life membership to Malky Mackay I can state with certainty that I have more knowledge than you on this as I was present at the Trust board meeting where it was decided and I can categorically state that "to get at Tan" was never given any consideration whatsoever. It was merely as appreciation of a manager that got us promoted to the top tier for the first time in over 50 years - simple as that.

I don`t understand your reference to the Trust has "welched" unless I have misunderstood the meaning of the word and the context in which you use it. In what way has the Trust avoided doing something it promised to do? or indeed the "others(you don`t specify them)" you refer to?

Keith

The Berjaya group have been involved in South China and Virtnam for some 15 years at least. Without going into detail l fail to see how future political outcome has anything to do with the companies plans of 15 years ago. My opinion is based on timescale and historical investment, yours seem to be based on your assumption that he is corrupt. I think you quote" political Favours" in my book that translates as corrupt.
Mackay and his reward was certainly kept quite as a member l was totally unaware of such. In my letter of disagreement to the Chairman voicing my opinion and cancelling my membership l was told many decisions were made this way as it was impossible to consult all members. I agree that to be the case over a short urgent timescale but why did this decision have to be rushed. Surely a month of two would have made no difference.
I repeat it was in my opinion a stick to hit Tan with.
As for the term Welching. If l were Tan that exactly how l would read it. From not wanting color change, but making it quite clear the trust would not support protest for almost 2 years , to supporting all protest and taking a soap box stance even designing and selling shirts in competition to the blue club shirt certainly seems at the best a complete turn around if not a Welch. Whatever the reasoning l can not agree that Tan has inspired you and the trust on anything that is much different to two years ago. At least you got the Echo on side .

Great post Danny Blue. There's a bit of hypocrisy in this in relation to what tan gets accused of. I do begin to wonder now if the Trust is going down a similar route to others in feathering their own personal portfolios.