What has Vincent Tan ever done for us????

Our fans have been moaning and divided well before the rebrand ,there is always a cause against the club ,us as fans are never happy ,as for being a laughing stock ,who gives a f**k most clubs are seen as laughing stock by others

No they aren't.

Barry I've got to say you come across like a little weasel mate. Why can't you just debate the point instead putting in the those condescending smileys you tool!

Fair play Gringo, you always fire from the hip

Tan has done a lot of good for us, in fairness to him, but he's done an awful lot bad!

Turning us red, Splitting the fan base, stupid media quotes and silly decisions are what ruined it for him!

If Tan had not rebranded us, the fans would love his crazy media interviews, high trousers and high transfer budgets, its only those who are Anti Tan that choose to use those things against him to suit the agenda they are pushing.

That's an assumption at best. I know I certainly wouldn't love it. I think the best owners are the ones that are rarely heard from. Although I will say that without the rebrand, I wouldn't have any real issue with Tan at all.

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stadium expansion not needed or asked for.Civil war firmly under way within the club. Club and supporters humiliated at home and across the world.Old friends have fallen out over the stupidity of Tan.Shame brought on Malaysia by Tan.Old enemies of Tan in Malaysia sharpening their knives.Tourism to Malaysia damaged to a small percent by people taring all Malaysians with the same brush as the Idiot Tan.A true Bluebird like Steve Borley turned from a hero to a villain in the eyes of many fellow fans.Ect ect ect ect.TAN OUT.

agree with some of this...

but if any 'old friends have fallen out over a shirt colour then they need to get their f*cking priorities straight. same goes to those who have physically fought (or intimidated) those on the other side of the argument

Sad to say i did row with an old friend at the scarfgate game.Me in my Blue' him in his red.I will personally bake him some humble pie on the Day the Blue returns.We will win Mr Tan.We will win. :bluescarf :bluescarf

I have mates who have differing views about Tan but if you think I'm gonna ruin a friendship over it you've got another thing coming.

If I was you I'd take a step back and think again, life is too short.

As for your other points about Malaysia, that has nothing to do with us! If Tan wants to argue with his countrymen so be it.


I agree with all Natmans points and I also agree with some of Barry's even if his delivery of them winds me up.

There is no doubt he has caused a rift between fans, caused a bad atmosphere at the ground and has had a disregard for the history of our club, but what pisses me off is that that people are always so black and white about it! Why can't people take every situation according to its own merit instead of playing goodies and baddies?

Its like listening to an ocean finance advert in patches on this thread.

"Why not consolidate all of your massive footballing debt into one giant debt controlled by a guy who wants you to play in red"

I feel for Barry I really do. He's man enough to face up to the reality of ownership under Tan while people around him try and dress the situation up as being better than what it was before. How is more debt, playing in red in the championship better than before he took over?

We all agree that Tan is in it for the business aspect of the football because he clearly doesn't give two shits about anything else, just look at the re-brand. How can it be a good thing to owe considerably more money to one man who couldn't care less about the history, identity and cultural significance of football. Tan wants his money back and will get pretty much most of it,even if that means liquidating the club because he is a business man. Likewise, revenue that the club makes will be going to Tans pocket rather than being reinvested into the club.

Until he is paid off in full the club can never be sustainable and just how quick or easy do you think its going to be before that 100 million plus is recuperated?

Natman stated in another thread that he wanted tan to splash out and get this club in to more debt, for short term success, yet has the audacity to call others short sighted?!

f*cking priceless.

Quote?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=141803&hilit=+Long+term

Her. There's a vote & you chose the option to pump more money into the club and push the club into ever higher levels of debt.

Yet you claim that others are short sighted?!

PS - you even bizarrely suggest that Tan pumping more loans into the club wouldn't accrue any more debt.

Wrong again!

Wrong again!

It's there to see for yourself. any more I put on that crazy notion of yours... Tan pouring more money in wouldn't accrue more debt for this club?

Is the nature of loosing an debate to start redicule and start arguing what I said elsewhere? Great OP and follow ups! You better start another thread to for kids to have a laugh,.

Is the nature of loosing an debate to start redicule and start arguing what I said elsewhere? Great OP and follow ups! You better start another thread to for kids to have a laugh,.

It's like playschool on here these days mate. Grown up football discussion has just about gone and has been replaced by f*cking weirdos who sit at their computers all day trying to have the last word in arguments with people they've never met!

All this identity stripped is rubbish all he has changed is the colour of a shirt which most of you complainers never used to wear anyway

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

Tan may be responsible for a divide in opinion (much like weather or not such a player is any good divides opinion) but the only people making fans fight amongst each other is the fans fighting...no one else

Tan is the catalyst of it all though , if he didn't do the rebrand then there wouldn't be fighting amongst fans

you been a fan of this club long fella? the fans are ALWAYS fighting over something. players, funds, owners, stadiums.

and like i said, fans will always have a difference of opinion over things and that is down to the owner. but theres a difference between having a difference of opinion and constantly arguing about it, the only fans constantly arguing over it are the ones that choose to, no one is making them (and that goes for pro and anti rebrand)

yes since mid nineties thanks , the fans have always been fighting over something but its never been this bad

Its the minority of fans intolerance to accept that everyone thinks different that causes abuse and arguements.

Exactly! But htne further to that my bug bear is that they dare to blame Tan for their own behaviour and accept no accountability for what they do! But i digress.

There's a bigger plan at play here and fan's need to grasp it rather than what is often some extreme shortsightedness (putting it politely).

So please, finally tell us all EXACTLY what this bigger plan at play here is.
You keep banging on about it but never say what it is or who is involved.
Tell us now.

All this identity stripped is rubbish all he has changed is the colour of a shirt which most of you complainers never used to wear anyway

With age, comes wisdom. Nice one

Tan didn't save this club from admin,he saved it from oblivion-a matter of record and deluded opinion or ignorance can't change that.Even the petulant chucklefucker can't argue with that.There would be no club to argue over if it wasn't for Tan yet the ignorant dummyspitters club think if you shout and abuse loud enough we'll all live happily ever after in div 2 with a blue team.

Tan didn't save this club from admin,he saved it from oblivion-a matter of record and deluded opinion or ignorance can't change that.Even the petulant chucklefucker can't argue with that.There would be no club to argue over if it wasn't for Tan yet the ignorant dummyspitters club think if you shout and abuse loud enough we'll all live happily ever after in div 2 with a blue team.

I agree he saved the club but he could of still saved it without changing our colours and as a businessman he is stupid to ignore the fans on this , he would of made a millions in merchandising sales last season with us in blue in the Prem , if he likes red all he had to do was make that our away kit and ironically he would of sold shed loads of them aswell

Its the minority of fans intolerance to accept that everyone thinks different that causes abuse and arguements.

Exactly! But htne further to that my bug bear is that they dare to blame Tan for their own behaviour and accept no accountability for what they do! But i digress.

There's a bigger plan at play here and fan's need to grasp it rather than what is often some extreme shortsightedness (putting it politely).

So please, finally tell us all EXACTLY what this bigger plan at play here is.
You keep banging on about it but never say what it is or who is involved.
Tell us now.

Check my OP

All this identity stripped is rubbish all he has changed is the colour of a shirt which most of you complainers never used to wear anyway

He changed our traditional home colours and our club crest.
There is only the club name left to show our identity!
I also think you'll find that many many of us wore our clubs colours.
Your post is ridiculous.

Its the minority of fans intolerance to accept that everyone thinks different that causes abuse and arguements.

Exactly! But htne further to that my bug bear is that they dare to blame Tan for their own behaviour and accept no accountability for what they do! But i digress.

There's a bigger plan at play here and fan's need to grasp it rather than what is often some extreme shortsightedness (putting it politely).

So please, finally tell us all EXACTLY what this bigger plan at play here is.
You keep banging on about it but never say what it is or who is involved.
Tell us now.

he makes great points which you can not counter...try reading or bore off

No more ridiculous than yours my opinion to which I'm entitled as are you I asked before if you drive tan out the next person in is no better will you campaign against them till you get someone you like.IT seems certain factions are not happy unless they trying to get rid of someone.CArdiff City history can never be erased or changed that's all I'm concerned about and it's not the first time the colour and badged has changed.To be honest the whole issue is getting boring,let's try and discuss football for change not bring re brand into every thread

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stadium expansion not needed or asked for.Civil war firmly under way within the club. Club and supporters humiliated at home and across the world.Old friends have fallen out over the stupidity of Tan.Shame brought on Malaysia by Tan.Old enemies of Tan in Malaysia sharpening their knives.Tourism to Malaysia damaged to a small percent by people taring all Malaysians with the same brush as the Idiot Tan.A true Bluebird like Steve Borley turned from a hero to a villain in the eyes of many fellow fans.Ect ect ect ect.TAN OUT.

agree with some of this...

but if any 'old friends have fallen out over a shirt colour then they need to get their f*cking priorities straight. same goes to those who have physically fought (or intimidated) those on the other side of the argument

Sad to say i did row with an old friend at the scarfgate game.Me in my Blue' him in his red.I will personally bake him some humble pie on the Day the Blue returns.We will win Mr Tan.We will win. :bluescarf :bluescarf

I have mates who have differing views about Tan but if you think I'm gonna ruin a friendship over it you've got another thing coming.

If I was you I'd take a step back and think again, life is too short.

As for your other points about Malaysia, that has nothing to do with us! If Tan wants to argue with his countrymen so be it.


I agree with all Natmans points and I also agree with some of Barry's even if his delivery of them winds me up.

There is no doubt he has caused a rift between fans, caused a bad atmosphere at the ground and has had a disregard for the history of our club, but what pisses me off is that that people are always so black and white about it! Why can't people take every situation according to its own merit instead of playing goodies and baddies?

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and traditions.But when a person comes into any group or country and rams those beliefs and traditions down the thought's of those already there he becomes a dictator.Tan is a dictator.Like any other.Dictators have their supporters'no doubt.But when dictators fall'as fall they always do'what happens to their supporters.Natman is entitled to his views'as are you.But to support a bully and a dictator like Tan'is in my view wrong.

The type of fan that is falling over themselves to praise such things are the exact type of fan this man can manipulate to the "nth" degree.

If i had a Vauxhall Astra due to a modest income of 20k a year and then took out a £200k loan to buy the best car 3D TV's for the head rests, diamond encrusted windscreen wipers and a platinum exhaust pipe. It wouldnt be a "look how far i have come" moment. It would be a "f**k ive been so stupid and am ten times my yearly earnings in debt... And I still have a Vauxhall Astra" moment.

You are 5 times more in debt than when you started and still in the championship. The same bloody place as when he took over.... Except not only are you in crippling debt, you now play in red with a split fanbase and a whole host of embarrassing media focus.

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

I've gone past caring, don't go no more and I'm happy

The type of fan that is falling over themselves to praise such things are the exact type of fan this man can manipulate to the "nth" degree.

If i had a Vauxhall Astra due to a modest income of 20k a year and then took out a £200k loan to buy the best car 3D TV's for the head rests, diamond encrusted windscreen wipers and a platinum exhaust pipe. It wouldnt be a "look how far i have come" moment. It would be a "f**k ive been so stupid and am ten times my yearly earnings in debt... And I still have a Vauxhall Astra" moment.

You are 5 times more in debt than when you started and still in the championship. The same bloody place as when he took over.... Except not only are you in crippling debt, you now play in red with a split fanbase and a whole host of embarrassing media focus.

so who exactly is being crippled by this debt.ive not read on article by anyone within our club concerned about the debt.........
so cardiff are a ford astra ..what are swansea?

I want Tan out because of his rebrand. End of. Not interested in his grand plans. If he's not willing to return this club to its tradition identity, then I want him out.

My fan who suggests that Tan isn't responsible for this massive split in the fan base, is deluded too.

Although I find it hilarious that the man who is happy to see this club plunged deeper into debt and actively wanted Tan so spend lots more money this season, just for a successful season, without any concerns about long term debt, is calling others short sighted.

Tan may be responsible for a divide in opinion (much like weather or not such a player is any good divides opinion) but the only people making fans fight amongst each other is the fans fighting...no one else

Tan is the catalyst of it all though , if he didn't do the rebrand then there wouldn't be fighting amongst fans

wrong.....he turned us red.......and we all want blue.........
the divide is those that want to see us up to our eyes in debt,and those that do not......of course the group that dont care what sort of mess we are in hide behind the blue, and those of a different opinion are called reds.............truth is the real cardiff fans..the real blues..want a club

Vincent Tan

Has stripped Cardiff City of its Identity, Colour and Badge, to me that alone out ways anything good he could now possible ever do for our club, without Identity,Cardiff City to me is dwindling away and hurting more and more. Tan has taken our identity away, to me that is it full stop, he has taken the pride and love away from my club after 43 years of worshipping City, nothing will ever put that right, only the return to our true identity in my eyes

Has divided our fan base more than it has ever been

Divided the fans even on match days in the stadium

Lost many many loyal fans who really cant take it anymore and are deeply hurt and wont return till he has gone

Made us a world wide laughing stock in the media

Our debt has just gone higher and higher and now so high, prob harder now to sell than ever

Promised to make us Debt Free two years ago, then said he would do it in days

Has only ever lent us the money

Season ticket sales are at there lowest for 3 years

Merchandise sales are at there lowest for years

Our brand now is less sailable than ever

Got us relegated after all the divide and promises, we are now back in the Championship, was it all really worth it? for me 100% a Def NO

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stadium expansion not needed or asked for.Civil war firmly under way within the club. Club and supporters humiliated at home and across the world.Old friends have fallen out over the stupidity of Tan.Shame brought on Malaysia by Tan.Old enemies of Tan in Malaysia sharpening their knives.Tourism to Malaysia damaged to a small percent by people taring all Malaysians with the same brush as the Idiot Tan.A true Bluebird like Steve Borley turned from a hero to a villain in the eyes of many fellow fans.Ect ect ect ect.TAN OUT.

agree with some of this...

but if any 'old friends have fallen out over a shirt colour then they need to get their f*cking priorities straight. same goes to those who have physically fought (or intimidated) those on the other side of the argument

Sad to say i did row with an old friend at the scarfgate game.Me in my Blue' him in his red.I will personally bake him some humble pie on the Day the Blue returns.We will win Mr Tan.We will win. :bluescarf :bluescarf

I have mates who have differing views about Tan but if you think I'm gonna ruin a friendship over it you've got another thing coming.

If I was you I'd take a step back and think again, life is too short.

As for your other points about Malaysia, that has nothing to do with us! If Tan wants to argue with his countrymen so be it.


I agree with all Natmans points and I also agree with some of Barry's even if his delivery of them winds me up.

There is no doubt he has caused a rift between fans, caused a bad atmosphere at the ground and has had a disregard for the history of our club, but what pisses me off is that that people are always so black and white about it! Why can't people take every situation according to its own merit instead of playing goodies and baddies?

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and traditions.But when a person comes into any group or country and rams those beliefs and traditions down the thought's of those already there he becomes a dictator.Tan is a dictator.Like any other.Dictators have their supporters'no doubt.But when dictators fall'as fall they always do'what happens to their supporters.Natman is entitled to his views'as are you.But to support a bully and a dictator like Tan'is in my view wrong.

Mate I love football and Cardiff City and my missus calls it my obsession and it has caused many arguments in my house, but your language seems to indicate that you've lost a little touch with reality.
However much I love my club, when I step back I like to think that I know that it's just football. The language of your post here makes me wonder if you see Vincent Tan in the same light as ICIS or Al Queada!!!

so who exactly is being crippled by this debt.ive not read on article by anyone within our club concerned about the debt.........
so cardiff are a ford astra ..what are swansea?

Do you have read it for it to be obvious then? I dont think ive ever read about gravity but its clearly at work.

Cardiff City is a company, the company is at a point where it cannot run without loans, this is a terrible position.

No idea what this has to do with swansea but we are debt free and the most profitable club in the premier league. But that is besides the point.

Our fans have been moaning and divided well before the rebrand ,there is always a cause against the club ,us as fans are never happy ,as for being a laughing stock ,who gives a f**k most clubs are seen as laughing stock by others

No they aren't.

There's been Infighting at Cardiff City as far back as I can remember...

I remember watching two guys fight in the grandstand over a Chris Pike debate FFS

From Owners to managers to players to certain fan elements
.. We've always been warring on the inside.

Just never on such a large scale as the Rebrand issue..

Raised global profile as a laughing stock ?!

Increasing revenue through racks full of unsold red stock !?

Premier League footy .... can't disagree , but If Tan is lauded as the major reason we got there ... I reckon he's also the major reason we only lasted one season !

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.

At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stadium expansion not needed or asked for.Civil war firmly under way within the club. Club and supporters humiliated at home and across the world.Old friends have fallen out over the stupidity of Tan.Shame brought on Malaysia by Tan.Old enemies of Tan in Malaysia sharpening their knives.Tourism to Malaysia damaged to a small percent by people taring all Malaysians with the same brush as the Idiot Tan.A true Bluebird like Steve Borley turned from a hero to a villain in the eyes of many fellow fans.Ect ect ect ect.TAN OUT.

agree with some of this...

but if any 'old friends have fallen out over a shirt colour then they need to get their f*cking priorities straight. same goes to those who have physically fought (or intimidated) those on the other side of the argument

Sad to say i did row with an old friend at the scarfgate game.Me in my Blue' him in his red.I will personally bake him some humble pie on the Day the Blue returns.We will win Mr Tan.We will win. :bluescarf :bluescarf

I have mates who have differing views about Tan but if you think I'm gonna ruin a friendship over it you've got another thing coming.

If I was you I'd take a step back and think again, life is too short.

As for your other points about Malaysia, that has nothing to do with us! If Tan wants to argue with his countrymen so be it.


I agree with all Natmans points and I also agree with some of Barry's even if his delivery of them winds me up.

There is no doubt he has caused a rift between fans, caused a bad atmosphere at the ground and has had a disregard for the history of our club, but what pisses me off is that that people are always so black and white about it! Why can't people take every situation according to its own merit instead of playing goodies and baddies?

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and traditions.But when a person comes into any group or country and rams those beliefs and traditions down the thought's of those already there he becomes a dictator.Tan is a dictator.Like any other.Dictators have their supporters'no doubt.But when dictators fall'as fall they always do'what happens to their supporters.Natman is entitled to his views'as are you.But to support a bully and a dictator like Tan'is in my view wrong.

Mate I love football and Cardiff City and my missus calls it my obsession and it has caused many arguments in my house, but your language seems to indicate that you've lost a little touch with reality.
However much I love my club, when I step back I like to think that I know that it's just football. The language of your post here makes me wonder if you see Vincent Tan in the same light as ICIS or Al Queada!!!

really frightening.........the hatred seems to grow within them, and its not about the Blue......its hate for hates sake

Well I think natman won that one on points.