Fao Natman & CJBluebird 17

I told you all at the time what he was doing with regards to interest on his loans. He is very VERY clever at manipulating the fans and foresees things before they happen.

The interest he was charging was to create "non existent" money that he would then write off in exchange for more shares so he doesnt have to convert as much of his own loans to equity but instead use the money that never really existed.

When he announced he was converting the interest to equity people rejoiced on here. He just took shares for money that never even changed hands. Very clever, very manipulative and he has the majority eating out of the palm of his hands.

I also told you from the start he will never do a full debt to equity conversion as it made no sense what so ever. That has also proven true. My advice is use your brains rather than what he is telling you because a manipulator that has his audience in the palm of his hands use misdirection, and everyone falls for it time and time and time again.

so all the interest ive paid in my life is non existent money..............waw........so that must mean i earned non existent money to pay the non existent money that was interest............somebody owes me a hell of a lot of money...........

are there specialist companies like there are for to claim this non existent interest back like there are for PPI?
if not maybe you could start one up?

Is this going to be another silly soulofthesea thread or are you going to try and be sensible? Ill live in hope this will be the latter so will reply.

Let me explain.

You paid interest to a third party who benefit solely from lending you the money.

Tan, as owner of the club, charged interest..... To himself.

Thus creating a purse of money he has not borrowed, lent nor paid back (Its non existent) - yet now uses it to buy a larger stake in the company.

no Roath...............after the non existent interest post...from a multi millionaire propery developer who KNOWS EVERYTHING........this has nowhere to go.....................either tell me where i get all my interest back..or beat it.......

Pretty easy to work out...

He says he will charge interest on certain monies, never has any intention of doing so, then wipes out the alleged interest.

He looks good, it looks like he is wiping debt away out of the goodness of his heart & he is still owed exactly what he put in.

Very clever.

I told you all at the time what he was doing with regards to interest on his loans. He is very VERY clever at manipulating the fans and foresees things before they happen.

The interest he was charging was to create "non existent" money that he would then write off in exchange for more shares so he doesnt have to convert as much of his own loans to equity but instead use the money that never really existed.

When he announced he was converting the interest to equity people rejoiced on here. He just took shares for money that never even changed hands. Very clever, very manipulative and he has the majority eating out of the palm of his hands.

I also told you from the start he will never do a full debt to equity conversion as it made no sense what so ever. That has also proven true. My advice is use your brains rather than what he is telling you because a manipulator that has his audience in the palm of his hands use misdirection, and everyone falls for it time and time and time again.

so all the interest ive paid in my life is non existent money..............waw........so that must mean i earned non existent money to pay the non existent money that was interest............somebody owes me a hell of a lot of money...........

are there specialist companies like there are for to claim this non existent interest back like there are for PPI?
if not maybe you could start one up?

Is this going to be another silly soulofthesea thread or are you going to try and be sensible? Ill live in hope this will be the latter so will reply.

Let me explain.

You paid interest to a third party who benefit solely from lending you the money.

Tan, as owner of the club, charged interest..... To himself.

Thus creating a purse of money he has not borrowed, lent nor paid back (Its non existent) - yet now uses it to buy a larger stake in the company.

good effort..but as per norm, fiction...........
your point is ...if tan lent any money to any person or company or goverment even, to charge interest is fine.
but not to CCFC?
i didnt need the explanation, when i read your posts i always assume your an enthusiastic child that has come up with an ingenious but wrong idea........mostly due to lack of experience.......

no Roath...............after the non existent interest post...from a multi millionaire propery developer who KNOWS EVERYTHING........this has nowhere to go.....................either tell me where i get all my interest back..or beat it.......

So ive got my answer then, you are going to ignore everything you are being told and continue to be stupid

If i lend you money, i do it with the sole intention of making money from it. Its the only reason i do it. I charge you £2 for every £10 i lend you. On return I want it in monitory terms - £12.

If I take over a company, i can lend myself money and charge myself interest. The reason i do it is to increase the value of my business by charging all share value enhancing assets to the club. Any interest i charge is counter productive as I will have to basically just pay myself back out of my own money - what he can do however (and what he did) is accrued millions of pounds by interest in his own loans and essentially acquired millions of pounds of shares for free.

If after reading that you cannot distinguish between PPI charged to banks customers and a loan you give your own company then you have just sunk to the lowest you have ever sunk to in the stupidity sea (soul of the)

Pretty easy to work out...

He says he will charge interest on certain monies, never has any intention of doing so, then wipes out the alleged interest.

He looks good, it looks like he is wiping debt away out of the goodness of his heart & he is still owed exactly what he put in.

Very clever.

apparently soulofthesea has decided this cannot happen im afraid

But all children aside, yes Barry thats exactly what he did. Very good business indeed.

Pretty easy to work out...

He says he will charge interest on certain monies, never has any intention of doing so, then wipes out the alleged interest.

He looks good, it looks like he is wiping debt away out of the goodness of his heart & he is still owed exactly what he put in.

Very clever.

yes its mind blowing clever.......if i were you id memorise Roathes post,and run down the bank shouting eureka........this interest is non existent money idea will change the world

Oh my word he still doesnt understand does he

Maybe you have a go Baz, its painful.

its like talking to a child with his fingers in his ears while shouting "santa does exist" and not listening to the obvious

Bank? Ffs

yes its mind blowing clever.......if i were you id memorise Roathes post,and run down the bank shouting eureka........this interest is non existent money idea will change the world

You aren't getting it. He charges interest on the loans to the club with no intention of ever reclaiming it (in my opinion) and then wipes it out in a good will gesture.

The fans think he is wiping away money for no reason and celebrate it, yet VT will still be owed exactly the same amount of money that he put in.

It has absolutely nothing to do with banks.

Were you kicked out of the crayon class for eating all the crayons?

Pretty easy to work out...

He says he will charge interest on certain monies, never has any intention of doing so, then wipes out the alleged interest.

He looks good, it looks like he is wiping debt away out of the goodness of his heart & he is still owed exactly what he put in.

Very clever.

apparently soulofthesea has decided this cannot happen im afraid

But all children aside, yes Barry thats exactly what he did. Very good business indeed.

good business would be to continue charging interest...............allow the non existent amount to rise to equal his initial investment surely?

of course it can happen........BUT.....anywhere else he invested the money would show interest payments.........
you two are making out that he is mega clever and taking the club for a ride by NOT charging interest.........where he could invest the money in any one of a million other things and get interst on his money.............
yes naive children

You aren't getting it. He charges interest on the loans to the club with no intention of ever reclaiming it (in my opinion) and then wipes it out in a good will gesture.

The fans think he is wiping away money for no reason and celebrate it, yet VT will still be owed exactly the same amount of money that he put in.

It has absolutely nothing to do with banks.

Were you kicked out of the crayon class for eating all the crayons?

Spot on.

I may be wrong, my memory isnt the best.... but not only did he wipe it out but didnt he convert it into shares? Essentially getting them for free?

yes its mind blowing clever.......if i were you id memorise Roathes post,and run down the bank shouting eureka........this interest is non existent money idea will change the world

You aren't getting it. He charges interest on the loans to the club with no intention of ever reclaiming it (in my opinion) and then wipes it out in a good will gesture.

The fans think he is wiping away money for no reason and celebrate it, yet VT will still be owed exactly the same amount of money that he put in.

It has absolutely nothing to do with banks.

Were you kicked out of the crayon class for eating all the crayons?

of course i get it...................its his money..he chose to invest in us ,could be getting interst for it, if he lent it elsewhere.......if he lent each fan a 100k.....he would be having interest of each of us.......where is the trick ffs?
he gets NO interest...............

yes its mind blowing clever.......if i were you id memorise Roathes post,and run down the bank shouting eureka........this interest is non existent money idea will change the world

You aren't getting it. He charges interest on the loans to the club with no intention of ever reclaiming it (in my opinion) and then wipes it out in a good will gesture.

The fans think he is wiping away money for no reason and celebrate it, yet VT will still be owed exactly the same amount of money that he put in.

It has absolutely nothing to do with banks.

Were you kicked out of the crayon class for eating all the crayons?

of course i get it...................its his money..he chose to invest in us ,could be getting interst for it, if he lent it elsewhere.......if he lent each fan a 100k.....he would be having interest of each of us.......where is the trick ffs?
he gets NO interest...............

oh my lord. He isn't after the interest you moron. If you lend yourself money, why the heck would you bother charging yourself interest?

He owns Cardiff City...... Cardiff City needed his loans...... He provided them to himself as he needed them to buy players etc which increases the value if his shares by asset purchase...... if he charged interest he would be paying himself back interest from his own money (the club doesnt generate enough)...... Instead he "wipes it out" and gets shares in the club for nothing...... Instead of equity swapping funds he has physically put in he is equity swapping funds that were never there or ever going to be paid back.

Which bit if that confuses you and we will go through it.

Last edited by RoathMagic on Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

You aren't getting it. He charges interest on the loans to the club with no intention of ever reclaiming it (in my opinion) and then wipes it out in a good will gesture.

The fans think he is wiping away money for no reason and celebrate it, yet VT will still be owed exactly the same amount of money that he put in.

It has absolutely nothing to do with banks.

Were you kicked out of the crayon class for eating all the crayons?

Spot on.

I may be wrong, my memory isnt the best.... but not only did he wipe it out but didnt he convert it into shares? Essentially getting them for free?

if you became a money lender............the money you recieve as interest is yours........to spend on massage parlours..biscuits, an education......or buy shares in a football club...........your money,what a novel thought eh...

Isn't it strange how Roath jumps on a thread where the anti-tan bandwagon starts get a beating and completely derails it onto something else hmmmmm

You aren't getting it. He charges interest on the loans to the club with no intention of ever reclaiming it (in my opinion) and then wipes it out in a good will gesture.

The fans think he is wiping away money for no reason and celebrate it, yet VT will still be owed exactly the same amount of money that he put in.

It has absolutely nothing to do with banks.

Were you kicked out of the crayon class for eating all the crayons?

Spot on.

I may be wrong, my memory isnt the best.... but not only did he wipe it out but didnt he convert it into shares? Essentially getting them for free?

if you became a money lender............the money you recieve as interest is yours........to spend on massage parlours..biscuits, an education......or buy shares in a football club...........your money,what a novel thought eh...

What are you talking about now?

If i lent myself £5 and paid myself back £7 - i would be in the same position as I started with as the £2 interest i would have paid myself. I would essentially be getting my £5 back.

However if i did this in a business situation then I COULD charge interest and then use the £2 that doesnt actually exist to buy £2 worth of extra shares in that business and on paper wipe out £2 of debt.

Now which bit of THAT confuses you

yes its mind blowing clever.......if i were you id memorise Roathes post,and run down the bank shouting eureka........this interest is non existent money idea will change the world

You aren't getting it. He charges interest on the loans to the club with no intention of ever reclaiming it (in my opinion) and then wipes it out in a good will gesture.

The fans think he is wiping away money for no reason and celebrate it, yet VT will still be owed exactly the same amount of money that he put in.

It has absolutely nothing to do with banks.

Were you kicked out of the crayon class for eating all the crayons?

of course i get it...................its his money..he chose to invest in us ,could be getting interst for it, if he lent it elsewhere.......if he lent each fan a 100k.....he would be having interest of each of us.......where is the trick ffs?
he gets NO interest...............

oh my lord. He isn't after the interest you moron. If you lend yourself money, why the heck would you bother charging yourself interest?

He owns Cardiff City...... Cardiff City needed his loans...... He provided them to himself as he needed them to buy players etc which increases the value if his shares by asset purchase...... if he charged interest he would be paying himself back interest from his own money (the club doesnt generate enough)...... Instead he "wipes it out" and gets shares in the club for nothing...... Instead of equity swapping funds he has physically put in he is equity swapping funds that were never there or ever going to be paid back.

Which bit if that confuses you and we will go through it.

you do realise that these shares are not worth what he payed for them?.......hypothetical..........if the club is worth 1mill and there are 1 mil shares,they are worth a pound each...........if he turns his debt into more shares say increases it to 2mil.,a share then becomes worth 50p..........as the total value of the club does not increase just because there are more shares........im not confused by your childish efforts at all, i know how you think but its incredibly naive

Isn't it strange how Roath jumps on a thread where the anti-tan bandwagon starts get a beating and completely derails it onto something else hmmmmm

I havent derailed anything. Ive simply given ONE on topic opinion. (Debt to equity thread is it not?)

As usual my insight gets pounced upon and i spend the rest of the millions of pages explaining what is a very simple business concept.

Hmmm

Isn't it strange how Roath jumps on a thread where the anti-tan bandwagon starts get a beating and completely derails it onto something else hmmmmm

Not strange at all. It happens every time. He claims to be a critical voice, but it's a one way street,..

you do realise that these shares are not worth what he payed for them?.......hypothetical..........if the club is worth 1mill and there are 1 mil shares,they are worth a pound each...........if he turns his debt into more shares say increases it to 2mil.,a share then becomes worth 50p..........as the total value of the club does not increase just because there are more shares........im not confused by your childish efforts at all, i know how you think but its incredibly naive

You are incredibly confused im afraid, you are describing share dilution which didnt happen

Try again. It really is simple. But at least you have moved away from banks and PPI

yes its mind blowing clever.......if i were you id memorise Roathes post,and run down the bank shouting eureka........this interest is non existent money idea will change the world

You aren't getting it. He charges interest on the loans to the club with no intention of ever reclaiming it (in my opinion) and then wipes it out in a good will gesture.

The fans think he is wiping away money for no reason and celebrate it, yet VT will still be owed exactly the same amount of money that he put in.

It has absolutely nothing to do with banks.

Were you kicked out of the crayon class for eating all the crayons?

of course i get it...................its his money..he chose to invest in us ,could be getting interst for it, if he lent it elsewhere.......if he lent each fan a 100k.....he would be having interest of each of us.......where is the trick ffs?
he gets NO interest...............

oh my lord. He isn't after the interest you moron. If you lend yourself money, why the heck would you bother charging yourself interest?

He owns Cardiff City...... Cardiff City needed his loans...... He provided them to himself as he needed them to buy players etc which increases the value if his shares by asset purchase...... if he charged interest he would be paying himself back interest from his own money (the club doesnt generate enough)...... Instead he "wipes it out" and gets shares in the club for nothing...... Instead of equity swapping funds he has physically put in he is equity swapping funds that were never there or ever going to be paid back.

Which bit if that confuses you and we will go through it.

you do realise that these shares are not worth what he payed for them?.......hypothetical..........if the club is worth 1mill and there are 1 mil shares,they are worth a pound each...........if he turns his debt into more shares say increases it to 2mil.,a share then becomes worth 50p..........as the total value of the club does not increase just because there are more shares........im not confused by your childish efforts at all, i know how you think but its incredibly naive

he didnt pay anything for them!! what arent you getting about this???

you do realise that these shares are not worth what he payed for them?.......hypothetical..........if the club is worth 1mill and there are 1 mil shares,they are worth a pound each...........if he turns his debt into more shares say increases it to 2mil.,a share then becomes worth 50p..........as the total value of the club does not increase just because there are more shares........im not confused by your childish efforts at all, i know how you think but its incredibly naive

You are incredibly confused im afraid, you are describing share dilution which didnt happen

Try again. It really is simple. But at least you have moved away from banks and PPI

his investment in our club is many times what the club is worth..............debt to equity makes absolutely no business sense as the club has no equity left in it.................the PPI bit was ridicule..duh.........not smart at all are you

Its soulofthesea, he tends to not want to get anything I post. Kind of a hobby of his

You are wasting your time.

his investment in our club is many times what the club is worth..............debt to equity makes absolutely no business sense as the club has no equity left in it.................the PPI bit was ridicule..duh.........not smart at all are you

What? That has absolutely nothing to do with what we have just been discussing

As for the PPI "ridicule" - if wishing to ridicule a perfectly factual post then maybe try and at least make it the least bit relatable or sensible, otherwise it tends to have the opposite effect.

Now again i ask to avoid this mind numbing circular posting..... Which bit EXACTLY is confusing you?

his investment in our club is many times what the club is worth..............debt to equity makes absolutely no business sense as the club has no equity left in it.................the PPI bit was ridicule..duh.........not smart at all are you

What? That has absolutely nothing to do with what we have just been discussing

As for the PPI "ridicule" - if wishing to ridicule a perfectly factual post then maybe try and at least make it the least bit relatable or sensible, otherwise it tends to have the opposite effect.

Now again i ask to avoid this mind numbing circular posting..... Which bit EXACTLY is confusing you?

have to go now................ive explained fully where you went wrong..so go figure......

And the penny drops for him finally

You have had a mare, think before you post next time but going by your posting CV i dont hold out much hope

Anyway to get this back on topic before soulofthesea required further tuition, i shall repost the original debate point....

I told you all at the time what he was doing with regards to interest on his loans. He is very VERY clever at manipulating the fans and foresees things before they happen.

The interest he was charging was to create "non existent" money that he would then write off in exchange for more shares so he doesnt have to convert as much of his own loans to equity but instead use the money that never really existed.

When he announced he was converting the interest to equity people rejoiced on here. He just took shares for money that never even changed hands. Very clever, very manipulative and he has the majority eating out of the palm of his hands.

I also told you from the start he will never do a full debt to equity conversion as it made no sense what so ever. That has also proven true. My advice is use your brains rather than what he is telling you because a manipulator that has his audience in the palm of his hands use misdirection, and everyone falls for it time and time and time again.

Last edited by RoathMagic on Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

dont bother

I wasnt going to but he is adorable in his naivety

I wasnt going to but he is adorable in his naivety

The thread was actually about whether Tan had said he would do it within a matter of days or not. annis made the statement that Tan had promised that he would convert debt to equity in days and I questioned him on it as to provide evidence. This was his attempt and providing that.

I still maintain that even from that evidence the debt to equity and a debt free club is still a long term strategy. Not, as has been used as another stick, days.

I wasnt going to but he is adorable in his naivety

The thread was actually about whether Tan had said he would do it within a matter of days or not. annis made the statement that Tan had promised that he would convert debt to equity in days and I questioned him on it as to provide evidence. This was his attempt and providing that.

I still maintain that even from that evidence the debt to equity and a debt free club is still a long term strategy. Not, as has been used as another stick, days.

Thats your opinion. Time will tell on that, however full debt to equity doesn't, and never had, made any business sense what so ever. My post showed how a partial one has already been done which cost him nothing ( far from derailing as you incorrectly stated).

However you can make a club debt free in many ways. The most likely in a company where debt outweighs equity heavily is asset stripping followed by share sale - as ive said from day 1 of his tenure.