I'm happy to compromise with Vincent Tan

Enough blue for me

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Gavin, an excellent, well considered, concilliatory and (no doubt to some) controversial post...

Spot on in the main and time for ALL PARTIES (Tan, Board, Paying Fans) to work together for the GOOD of Cardiff CITY FC rather than short-termisms

Given that it is now increasingly apparent that Tan (a) is likely more right than wrong on the Malky/Moodie issue, and (b) appears ready to 'consider' the fans, then (as I've stated before) it's time to move forward and consign the mistakes of the past to the bins of history for the FUTURE benefit of our now wounded club

Ultimately, Tan holds the majority of the cards, but neither side can truly move forward without the other...FACT!

Forget who is to blame (neither side has been whiter than white) and embrace the opportunity for dialogue

Was you there today?

Certainly was. Why?

Can you honestly say where the club has progressed since Tan joined the club? We will be playing in exactly the same league next season as when he joined, be playing in an alien colour, a split fan base & in a monumental amount of debt, which Tan has now admitted, won't be wiped, going against what he originally promised.

Yes, the club hasn't got any HMRC court appearances to go to & no short term financial issues, but surely you can see that in the long term, this club is in financial dire straights?

For a minute Barry I thought you were like TLG and TVB who live by they're principles but your like most of us want the penny and the Bun (so to speak). Just like the OP suggests.

As far has the debt is concerned I don't worry to much about it, debt is not a dirty word in our society anymore.

Don't see a transfer embargo on the horizon Barry, he's moved us on from that.

Is the 150m debt progression too?!

Was you there today?

Yes Alex was as always in Blue, cheering the team on, 5 rows in front of me

Give us a solution then Barry, what would be your ideal future for the club.

Tan leaves, he won't be able to have all his money back, so he's going to have to take a loss. His comments in today's interviews show that he won't be here for the long term for me.

A lot of fans don't want him here, he doesn't want to be here... His family don't want him here... Best for all concerned.

We hopefully realise that we can't spend the ridiculous money that we do and aim to be a self sufficient club... Now that would be progression.

If things continue as they are currently, the club is going to be in even more debt next season... I cannot honestly see how any of this is progression.

He clearly wants out but wants all his money back.

Sorry Vin that aint going to happen. I think hes going to gave to take a loss and we as fans are going to have to accept championship or lower whilst we cut our cloth accordingly.

You'll unfortunately find that the majority will not be able to accept this harsh reality.

As bad as it sounds, won't be buying another season ticket unless we're back in blue with our badge or one the fans want and if that means a relegated Cardiff struggling with youth players free falling the divisions so be it. If that means a Cardiff City in the conference then so be it.

Loads will disagree with me but if Tan asset strips and goes (unlikely) and we start the season with a points deduction I'll then buy a season ticket. I just don't see how giving him any more money is opposing his ideology and views for his version of Cardiff City FC.

For a minute Barry I thought you were like TLG and TVB who live by they're principles but your like most of us want the penny and the Bun (so to speak). Just like the OP suggests.

As far has the debt is concerned I don't worry to much about it, debt is not a dirty word in our society anymore.

No, all I want to do is support my club & whilst doing so, expect it to be playing in its traditional colours. I personally feel that I can do far more to "protest" by being in the ground, than doing nothing.

If financial security doesn't bother you, why were you so happy to allow Tan trample all over this clubs identity?

With all due respect, you keep saying the fans will demand this and demand that if Tan 'rolls over' and gives us the blue back. How do you know? That's an awful lot of speculation there Gavin. You keep saying that as fans, we take, take, take. That is extremely unfair. I don't think those fans who made the trips, at real expense both in time and finance, up to Sunderland and then Newcastle the following week, would agree that they just take,take,take.

Fair enough there mate, I take that back, what I was trying to say was nothing will satisfy certain fans, demands will continue from a certain vocal section of the fanbase.

I know your mod permissions are in jeopardy but come on say it, we know you mean Annis

I dont mean Annis, he is more reasonable than most, I bet it would take less from VT to make him happy than some others on here.

When I was at Southampton they was 3 young lads behind me, I guess they were about 13 or 14, with a sign saying

Tan out, we want our blue back, against modern football

People like Annis have huge influence over young fans who have learned more about the club on the Internet than from going to games, I feel some people are on the bandwagon rather than forming their own opinions.

To that end I think Carl and Annis should give serious consideration to their actions, which im sure they do.

Don't see a transfer embargo on the horizon Barry, he's moved us on from that.

Is the 150m debt progression too?!

Was you there today?

Yes Alex was as always in Blue, cheering the team on, 5 rows in front of me

My point Annis is you can't knock the debt when your part of it....we're all drooling over our new signings.

Gavin, an excellent, well considered, concilliatory and (no doubt to some) controversial post...

Spot on in the main and time for ALL PARTIES (Tan, Board, Paying Fans) to work together for the GOOD of Cardiff CITY FC rather than short-termisms

Given that it is now increasingly apparent that Tan (a) is likely more right than wrong on the Malky/Moodie issue, and (b) appears ready to 'consider' the fans, then (as I've stated before) it's time to move forward and consign the mistakes of the past to the bins of history for the FUTURE benefit of our now wounded club

Ultimately, Tan holds the majority of the cards, but neither side can truly move forward without the other...FACT!

Forget who is to blame (neither side has been whiter than white) and embrace the opportunity for dialogue

Good post as ever Chris

With all due respect, you keep saying the fans will demand this and demand that if Tan 'rolls over' and gives us the blue back. How do you know? That's an awful lot of speculation there Gavin. You keep saying that as fans, we take, take, take. That is extremely unfair. I don't think those fans who made the trips, at real expense both in time and finance, up to Sunderland and then Newcastle the following week, would agree that they just take,take,take.

Fair enough there mate, I take that back, what I was trying to say was nothing will satisfy certain fans, demands will continue from a certain vocal section of the fanbase.

I know your mod permissions are in jeopardy but come on say it, we know you mean Annis

Chris, Gavin like all the other mods on here has his own mind and speaks his own mind and I respect him for it

Gavin, an excellent, well considered, concilliatory and (no doubt to some) controversial post...

Spot on in the main and time for ALL PARTIES (Tan, Board, Paying Fans) to work together for the GOOD of Cardiff CITY FC rather than short-termisms

Given that it is now increasingly apparent that Tan (a) is likely more right than wrong on the Malky/Moodie issue, and (b) appears ready to 'consider' the fans, then (as I've stated before) it's time to move forward and consign the mistakes of the past to the bins of history for the FUTURE benefit of our now wounded club

Ultimately, Tan holds the majority of the cards, but neither side can truly move forward without the other...FACT!

Forget who is to blame (neither side has been whiter than white) and embrace the opportunity for dialogue

How is plunging this club into more debt than ever & reneging on a promise to wipe it, in any way good for the long term for Cardiff City FC?

Surely going along with Tan's regime is short sighted...

With all due respect, you keep saying the fans will demand this and demand that if Tan 'rolls over' and gives us the blue back. How do you know? That's an awful lot of speculation there Gavin. You keep saying that as fans, we take, take, take. That is extremely unfair. I don't think those fans who made the trips, at real expense both in time and finance, up to Sunderland and then Newcastle the following week, would agree that they just take,take,take.

Fair enough there mate, I take that back, what I was trying to say was nothing will satisfy certain fans, demands will continue from a certain vocal section of the fanbase.

I know your mod permissions are in jeopardy but come on say it, we know you mean Annis

I dont mean Annis, he is more reasonable than most, I bet it would take less from VT to make him happy than some others on here.

When I was at Southampton they was 3 young lads behind me, I guess they were about 13 or 14, with a sign saying

Tan out, we want our blue back, against modern football

People like Annis have huge influence over young fans who have learned more about the club on the Internet than from going to games, I feel some people are on the bandwagon rather than forming their own opinions.

To that end I think Carl and Annis should give serious consideration to their actions, which im sure they do.

Gavin, I am very mindful of what I say and when I say it, I try to be measured and balanced and fair.

Nobody can ever deny I have been very fair to the good that Tan has done for this club but also critical of his failings.

With all due respect, you keep saying the fans will demand this and demand that if Tan 'rolls over' and gives us the blue back. How do you know? That's an awful lot of speculation there Gavin. You keep saying that as fans, we take, take, take. That is extremely unfair. I don't think those fans who made the trips, at real expense both in time and finance, up to Sunderland and then Newcastle the following week, would agree that they just take,take,take.

Fair enough there mate, I take that back, what I was trying to say was nothing will satisfy certain fans, demands will continue from a certain vocal section of the fanbase.

I know your mod permissions are in jeopardy but come on say it, we know you mean Annis

Chris, Gavin like all the other mods on here has his own mind and speaks his own mind and I respect him for it

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Carlos, out of interest what percentage of your clubs shares does the good Mr Tan now own?

With all due respect, you keep saying the fans will demand this and demand that if Tan 'rolls over' and gives us the blue back. How do you know? That's an awful lot of speculation there Gavin. You keep saying that as fans, we take, take, take. That is extremely unfair. I don't think those fans who made the trips, at real expense both in time and finance, up to Sunderland and then Newcastle the following week, would agree that they just take,take,take.

Fair enough there mate, I take that back, what I was trying to say was nothing will satisfy certain fans, demands will continue from a certain vocal section of the fanbase.

I know your mod permissions are in jeopardy but come on say it, we know you mean Annis

I dont mean Annis, he is more reasonable than most, I bet it would take less from VT to make him happy than some others on here.

When I was at Southampton they was 3 young lads behind me, I guess they were about 13 or 14, with a sign saying

Tan out, we want our blue back, against modern football

People like Annis have huge influence over young fans who have learned more about the club on the Internet than from going to games, I feel some people are on the bandwagon rather than forming their own opinions.

To that end I think Carl and Annis should give serious consideration to their actions, which im sure they do.

Gavin, I am very mindful of what I say and when I say it, I try to be measured and balanced and fair.

Nobody can ever deny I have been very fair to the good that Tan has done for this club but also critical of his failings.

I agree with you Carl, you have a great platform to voice your opinions and you do so with a level of respect for all parties involved.

To be fair to i think this thread proves there is no set agenda on here

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Carlos, out of interest what percentage of your clubs shares does the good Mr Tan now own?

Apparently 90%

To be fair to i think this thread proves there is no set agenda on here

Don't say it to loudly, it may upset a few

To be fair to i think this thread proves there is no set agenda on here

Actually Annis gave me £18 to post it

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Carlos, out of interest what percentage of your clubs shares does the good Mr Tan now own?

Apparently 90%

No there is not enough left to cover the debt....far from it.

For a minute Barry I thought you were like TLG and TVB who live by they're principles but your like most of us want the penny and the Bun (so to speak). Just like the OP suggests.

As far has the debt is concerned I don't worry to much about it, debt is not a dirty word in our society anymore.

No, all I want to do is support my club & whilst doing so, expect it to be playing in its traditional colours. I personally feel that I can do far more to "protest" by being in the ground, than doing nothing.

If financial security doesn't bother you, why were you so happy to allow Tan trample all over this clubs identity?

Trample over the clubs identity.....I'm a little season ticket holder Barry who travels 300 miles every home game.
I'm powerless over the money people like Tan and I'm not a big ITK type of fan.

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Carlos, out of interest what percentage of your clubs shares does the good Mr Tan now own?

Apparently 90%

Cheers.

So what you're actually asking for/expecting is not so much a debt to equity but the simple writing off of the debt?

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Carlos, out of interest what percentage of your clubs shares does the good Mr Tan now own?

Apparently 90%

Cheers.

So what you're actually asking for/expecting is not so much a debt to equity but the simple writing off of the debt?

Yes, if u want to put it that way

What he promised 2 years ago and since then created 90% of it himself.

Blue and red is just as alien to Cardiff City as red and black. Cardiff City should be wearing blue jerseys at home.

Tan has today shown himself to be backing out of his promise to change debt to equity - wasn't that the reason the majority "reluctantly accepted" the rebrand in the first place? Pure and simple, he lied.

Tan has progressed this club and moved it along? How exactly? Next season, we will be playing in exactly the same league as when he joined, yet we will be saddled with FAR more debt & playing in a totally alien colour with a feuding fan base that are split on the club's identity.

I can't see how that's progression.

Why would he convert debt to equity, that would mean he is involved for the long term in a place he is made to feel completely unwelcome.

Gavin, how about he honours his pledge to convert the debt to equity before any talk of compromise.

Secondly once he has converted ALL the debt to equity, I got a suggestion for compromise - turn us back to blue immediately and if we get back to the Premier League then and only then he can canvass all season ticket holders about allowing his values to become part of our heritage.

Gain our trust and then consult the fans on what we consider to be fair.

So wipe out £150 million of debt, and remove all the traces of the rebrand, something he feels strongly about, I assure you the fans would just move onto the next set on demands then.
Give and take, not just take take take, you say then speak to the fans, the fans with give him feck all no matter how much he gives to the club.

Yes Gavin, wipe out the massive debt that HE created.

Then give us back our colours.

Then start the process over again but this time do it the correct way, consult the fans from a clean slate with dialogue and considerations he would like to make, if the fans go with him and decide to compromise at that point then fine but if the fans say no then no it is.

But if it works that way and we are in the Premier League and he wants to sell for whatever price, that could be £500m as far as I care, if he makes an absolute mint from the sale then good for him, nobody can deny him that.

He is a custodian of this football club, he is in it for making money not trampling over our tradition.

I don't care if he makes an absolute fortune but remember we are Welsh and we are in Wales, this is our local club not a bastardisation of what his values are.

And that goes for any prospective owner who may have a future interest in this club.

Carl with due respect didn't he save us from the scrapyard by first paying off all the court injunctions 12 million and another million per month to pay wages etc. If we went back pre that time in retrospect he would have put Zero in.like it or not he saved our club.like him or loath he doesn't deserve some of the abuse.debt to equity is not the end of the world
when the owner is the banker. He's paid the piper and as always the piper will play his tunes, demands won't get us anywhere show of blue without insults may.

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Carlos, out of interest what percentage of your clubs shares does the good Mr Tan now own?

Apparently 90%

Cheers.

So what you're actually asking for/expecting is not so much a debt to equity but the simple writing off of the debt?

Yes, if u want to put it that way

What he promised 2 years ago and since then created 90% of it himself.

Doesn't seem like a very sensible thing to do from a business perspective wouldn't you say?

Blue and red is just as alien to Cardiff City as red and black. Cardiff City should be wearing blue jerseys at home.

Tan has today shown himself to be backing out of his promise to change debt to equity - wasn't that the reason the majority "reluctantly accepted" the rebrand in the first place? Pure and simple, he lied.

Tan has progressed this club and moved it along? How exactly? Next season, we will be playing in exactly the same league as when he joined, yet we will be saddled with FAR more debt & playing in a totally alien colour with a feuding fan base that are split on the club's identity.

I can't see how that's progression.

Why would he convert debt to equity, that would mean he is involved for the long term in a place he is made to feel completely unwelcome.

Gavin, how about he honours his pledge to convert the debt to equity before any talk of compromise.

Secondly once he has converted ALL the debt to equity, I got a suggestion for compromise - turn us back to blue immediately and if we get back to the Premier League then and only then he can canvass all season ticket holders about allowing his values to become part of our heritage.

Gain our trust and then consult the fans on what we consider to be fair.

So wipe out £150 million of debt, and remove all the traces of the rebrand, something he feels strongly about, I assure you the fans would just move onto the next set on demands then.
Give and take, not just take take take, you say then speak to the fans, the fans with give him feck all no matter how much he gives to the club.

Yes Gavin, wipe out the massive debt that HE created.

Then give us back our colours.

Then start the process over again but this time do it the correct way, consult the fans from a clean slate with dialogue and considerations he would like to make, if the fans go with him and decide to compromise at that point then fine but if the fans say no then no it is.

But if it works that way and we are in the Premier League and he wants to sell for whatever price, that could be £500m as far as I care, if he makes an absolute mint from the sale then good for him, nobody can deny him that.

He is a custodian of this football club, he is in it for making money not trampling over our tradition.

I don't care if he makes an absolute fortune but remember we are Welsh and we are in Wales, this is our local club not a bastardisation of what his values are.

And that goes for any prospective owner who may have a future interest in this club.

Carl with due respect didn't he save us from the scrapyard by first paying off all the court injunctions 12 million and another million per month to pay wages etc. If we went back pre that time in retrospect he would have put Zero in.like it or not he saved our club.like him or loath he doesn't deserve some of the abuse.debt to equity is not the end of the world
when the owner is the banker. He's paid the piper and as always the piper will play his tunes, demands won't get us anywhere show of blue without insults may.

I am sorry but I don't see anything I have written as abusive.

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Carlos, out of interest what percentage of your clubs shares does the good Mr Tan now own?

Apparently 90%

Cheers.

So what you're actually asking for/expecting is not so much a debt to equity but the simple writing off of the debt?

Yes, if u want to put it that way

What he promised 2 years ago and since then created 90% of it himself.

Doesn't seem like a very sensible thing to do from a business perspective wouldn't you say?

NJ
If he converts debt to equity the wipes out the debt that the club owes him in return for a larger shareholding, bear in mind the club could never pay back what they owe him, by doing this he creates a club free of debt, making it more saleable. (I think thats the basics of it, probably far more to it than that)

Blue and red is just as alien to Cardiff City as red and black. Cardiff City should be wearing blue jerseys at home.

Tan has today shown himself to be backing out of his promise to change debt to equity - wasn't that the reason the majority "reluctantly accepted" the rebrand in the first place? Pure and simple, he lied.

Tan has progressed this club and moved it along? How exactly? Next season, we will be playing in exactly the same league as when he joined, yet we will be saddled with FAR more debt & playing in a totally alien colour with a feuding fan base that are split on the club's identity.

I can't see how that's progression.

Why would he convert debt to equity, that would mean he is involved for the long term in a place he is made to feel completely unwelcome.

Gavin, how about he honours his pledge to convert the debt to equity before any talk of compromise.

Secondly once he has converted ALL the debt to equity, I got a suggestion for compromise - turn us back to blue immediately and if we get back to the Premier League then and only then he can canvass all season ticket holders about allowing his values to become part of our heritage.

Gain our trust and then consult the fans on what we consider to be fair.

So wipe out £150 million of debt, and remove all the traces of the rebrand, something he feels strongly about, I assure you the fans would just move onto the next set on demands then.
Give and take, not just take take take, you say then speak to the fans, the fans with give him feck all no matter how much he gives to the club.

Yes Gavin, wipe out the massive debt that HE created.

Then give us back our colours.

Then start the process over again but this time do it the correct way, consult the fans from a clean slate with dialogue and considerations he would like to make, if the fans go with him and decide to compromise at that point then fine but if the fans say no then no it is.

But if it works that way and we are in the Premier League and he wants to sell for whatever price, that could be £500m as far as I care, if he makes an absolute mint from the sale then good for him, nobody can deny him that.

He is a custodian of this football club, he is in it for making money not trampling over our tradition.

I don't care if he makes an absolute fortune but remember we are Welsh and we are in Wales, this is our local club not a bastardisation of what his values are.

And that goes for any prospective owner who may have a future interest in this club.

Carl with due respect didn't he save us from the scrapyard by first paying off all the court injunctions 12 million and another million per month to pay wages etc. If we went back pre that time in retrospect he would have put Zero in.like it or not he saved our club.like him or loath he doesn't deserve some of the abuse.debt to equity is not the end of the world
when the owner is the banker. He's paid the piper and as always the piper will play his tunes, demands won't get us anywhere show of blue without insults may.

I am sorry but I don't see anything I have written as abusive.

You certainly haven't and l didn't direct it at anyone person. Protest without abuse generally. Hope this is now clear.

Oh and if there is to be fan representation on the board I nominate Annis

Carlos, out of interest what percentage of your clubs shares does the good Mr Tan now own?

Apparently 90%

Cheers.

So what you're actually asking for/expecting is not so much a debt to equity but the simple writing off of the debt?

Yes, if u want to put it that way

What he promised 2 years ago and since then created 90% of it himself.

Doesn't seem like a very sensible thing to do from a business perspective wouldn't you say?

NJ
If he converts debt to equity the wipes out the debt that the club owes him in return for a larger shareholding, bear in mind the club could never pay back what they owe him, by doing this he creates a club free of debt, making it more saleable. (I think thats the basics of it, probably far more to it than that)

My point is that if he already owns 90% of the shares there's nothing to be gained by him doing it. Writing off the debt may make the club more saleable but it would cost him around £140m to do so.

It makes no business sense.