IT WAS FORCED ON US,BUT WOULD I FORGIVE VINCENT TAN? '

So if you walked out of the room fuming and rather relegate than rebrand why did you then post this?

Paul,
Because we were all asked by the Club and Police as suppose organisers/leaders to calm things down, so I posted from Carls ph in the car outside the stadium, to bring a bit of calm.

Great isnt it, I have made 10,000 post against the rebrand, argued from day one on FB in the streets etc and Paul hunts me down and gets the truth but still tries to keep it going, pleas find any real support for the rebrand from me on FB on here etc

You on the other hand have been pro Tan and rebrand, yet still cant admit, you were wrong.

I accept you have posted numerous times and have no doubt that you have always been anti rebrand. My point is that during that mad period where VT threatened to walk you were not as vocal on here as you are since.

I do feel VT is unfairly vilified as he has carried out all he said he would do as result of rebrand so in that respect we knew what we were getting. I do not know one city fan who wouldn't prefer VT AND Blue but two years ago, as fans, the vast majority took the rebrand for the good of the club.

This year we have seen the MM and Moody mess but perhaps this wasn't VT's fault after all yet he had all the abuse and MM and Moody the support. Only two apologies i've seen and neither was VT.

Two years ago as a club we accepted Tan and his rebrand. We have decided now it was wrong but have gone about changing by confrontation and abuse with very little respect.

I've known you for over 25 years and would never doubt your love for the club. The wear blue is fair and shows a fans view but even you must admit, with all your years watching City must admit this year, as fans, we have been more a protest group than getting behind the team and making the ground a fortress??

When you say since the rebrand, from August/Sept/Oct 2012 when the season began in the Championship, I wore BLUE at every game, sang BLUE songs with Nukes and Dibs when everyone around us looked at us like Aliens. By Nov 2012 our numbers from about 10 grew to about 400 then just got bigger and bigger.

I arranged meetings in June and July 2012 and our fans got insulted and threatened, most then were to scared to spk out, our numbers got less,but by Nov 2012 we got stronger and stronger as we never went away

All agreed on wearing the blue but the abuse needs to stop? How bout an appreciation to VT for what he has given but giving him an olive branch??

Paul, as I have said to you previously its not all Tans fault, he is surrounded by pure arselickers who have lied to him.

I have met Tan and he was very respectful to me, hopefully I get the meeting promised to me this June

Paul, Cheers I do love our club beyond, the passion sometimes takes over me.

threats and Racism on FB etc

Could this be the key?

Forgiveness, biblically speaking, does not mean that Tan was right and fans wrong; rather it releases the forgiver from bitterness.

StT.

Let's get back to what matters. Whatever happened with MM doesn't change anything concerning our future in getting our tradition back. The two aren't related. If Tan came out and did what Carl said of course he would be forgiven by the majority of fans. No reason to think otherwise. It would be fantastic for the club going forward and that is now the only thing that counts. This is why we need to keep up the pressure. I think the petition is a good idea and we need to get everyone involved in it. On the Sunderland Forum well over a 100 Sunderland fans have signed it and we have even had Palace and Stoke fans signing it as well !! I think that deserves a mention and a thank you to them.

Spot on!

Malky's dealings with the club are totally unrelated to the return to BLUE! Otherwise it's a bit like blaming marital problems on the one who made your wedding cake!!!

Why are people trying to muddy the waters by saying that if you supported Malky, then you are wrong and then by definition, your views on the rebrand are invalid?

Let's get this straight: if we return to BLUE, it won't suddenly mean that Tan is right, but it will go a long way to settling our fans and players. Tan is in a win/win situation because he can gain support, unite the fans and make loads on merchandising.

I don't think OGS is the best manager for us, especially as we go into Championship, arguably the most competitive league in Europe, BUT I will support whoever is in post.

I agree. VT has been vilified on here over rebrand yet older posts have shown Carl, Annis and the trust etc accepting at the time for the good of the club, reluctantly yes.

VT has been true to his word over promises with only debt to equity to be completed.

Yes we don't know the full truth but something was obviously wrong as the only 'fact' is Moody and MM have apologised.

Give the guy a break, stop singing the insulting songs bout him.

Tan out daubed out on our historical gates about sums up some fans mentality.

When you are sat in a room with 12 people who were hand picked by the club as so called fans leaders and told by club staff that unless we accept the change of colour then this club will cease trading within months, I can tell you that you go through the worst emotions you will ever feel, other than experiencing anything in your private family life, it really was the worse feeling I have ever had for something I love.

To be told and feel that you would be responsible for the death of our football club is something I hope I never experience again or anybody else ever has to go through, no matter what sort of person you are I can, from experience, tell you that your mind goes into overdrive, you panic, feel fear, worry, scared.

I left that room not thinking straight, believing there was no other option than to accept what we were told in that room at the stadium and should we continue with our stance of 'we want to keep the blue and tell Vincent Tan to stick his investment where the sun don't shine' because believe me that is what the majority in the room were saying , so don't ever think we just rolled over without a fight.

It was a fight that in truth we could not win, would you want to be one of a handful of people to ultimately face all Cardiff City fans and say 'we told Tan to stick his money' and be responsible for the death of our club, I couldn't do that and I am not ashamed to say I caved in through fear of losing the club.

Some in the room decided to walk away, I respect their stance on that but that is not something I wanted to do, I decided from the word go I would reluctantly swallow a very bitter pill to hopefully safeguard the future of the club, I wanted and still want a debt free club, it has never been about Premier League success for myself but for a debt free club.

From the two meetings that took place on the Tuesday and Thursday started a series of phone calls between Alan Whiteley and myself, I was commended by Whiteley for my balanced view on the meetings and during a call on the following Monday morning, I pleaded with the then chief executive to at least convince Tan to restore our club badge, first I had to convince Whiteley on the reasons why and after a lengthy chat I did just that and Alan said he would take my argument to Tan, he called me later that day to say that Tan is considering restoring the badge and he would have a definite answer in a day or so.

At that time there were death threats being made via social media against Tan and his children, there were threats of harm against the owner and his family, I went public along with others to appeal for calm, those threats went too far and were unnecessary.

Obviously the badge never got changed and I honestly don't know if I was used to try and keep people calm or if Whiteley ever did have the conversation with Tan about the badge, I guess we will never know but I was trying regardless.

We have never given up the hope of a return to blue and have since that day lobbied the club to bring about the change, we have not backtracked or changed our minds we have continued to do what we set out to do.

Vincent Tan pledged to convert his debt to equity once Langston was settled, in May 2012 we were told it was days away, that was simply not true, I can say that with authority as a result of Alan Whiteley asking me to pass on offers to Sam Hammam for the settlement of the Langston debt, that was another episode I didn't know if I wanted to get involved but it was said 'you got the ear of Sam, maybe you can help', I felt privileged to be asked but thought it was also laughable, I am a construction foreman and nothing more.

But again if I could play in part in helping this club become debt free then I felt it was the right thing to do.

We are £100m further in debt than we were 2 years ago and for somebody whose stance has always been about a debt free club, I fear that unless the debt is converted to shares as was promised then my fear of the club going to the wall has multiplied, we cannot sustain this level debt with or without Tan's money, we have to bring the debt levels down and live within our means but if we carry on as we are then we are truly screwed I believe.

Tan will not be around forever and if he leaves without converting then how will this club be able to trade with those debts should he call in his loans.

Simon Lim said to me on Wednesday 'why would Vincent turn his loans to shares when he is facing protests from the fans?' My response was that part of the reason he is facing opposition is because he has not converted them.

If tan converts and gives the fans back the club we deserve then I am sure we can be successful and in turn so could he.

I agree. VT has been vilified on here over rebrand yet older posts have shown Carl, Annis and the trust etc accepting at the time for the good of the club, reluctantly yes.

VT has been true to his word over promises with only debt to equity to be completed.

Yes we don't know the full truth but something was obviously wrong as the only 'fact' is Moody and MM have apologised.

Give the guy a break, stop singing the insulting songs bout him.

Tan out daubed out on our historical gates about sums up some fans mentality.

Hang on!!!! "Tan out daubed out on our historical gates about sums up some fans mentality". REALLY?????

These so-called fans may be fanatics, morons, kids or rival supporters. Unless you know for sure who vandalised our "hallowed ground", be careful about classing your own fellow supporters in that particular category. Even if a couple of misguided idiots did this and are actually regulars at CCS, IT DOESNT MEAN YOU CAN TAR US WITH THE SAME BRUSH (no pun intended).

We aren't going back to blue while tan is in charge.

But that does not mean we give up, we continue to get stronger and we make all games pure BLUE

Agree Annis shame tho isn't hes to stubborn to even consider it

Very Sad, but thats a Dictator for you.

I couldn't give two fucks about him (Tan), he's ruined the Club, so glad I don't go no more

We aren't going back to blue while tan is in charge.

But that does not mean we give up, we continue to get stronger and we make all games pure BLUE

Agree Annis shame tho isn't hes to stubborn to even consider it

Very Sad, but thats a Dictator for you.

I couldn't give two fucks about him (Tan), he's ruined the Club, so glad I don't go no more

Stud, Our club has been ripped apart and yet still people stick up for Tan and his Arselickers

We aren't going back to blue while tan is in charge.

But that does not mean we give up, we continue to get stronger and we make all games pure BLUE

Agree Annis shame tho isn't hes to stubborn to even consider it

Very Sad, but thats a Dictator for you.

I couldn't give two fucks about him (Tan), he's ruined the Club, so glad I don't go no more

Stud, Our club has been ripped apart and yet still people stick up for Tan and his Arselickers

Its unbelievable, totally unbelievable..

Every day is blue, he change change the players colours he can never tell the fans what to wear

Not many numptys wearing red left now and decreasing by the week.....

As regards the debt to equity swap Carl we are talking about a promise made by VT and as all the obstacles or excuses he has put in place have been settled there is now no reason why this cannot be done. If he doesn't then,in my opinion, he will NEVER be forgiven by the fans.

In respect of our traditional colours, and two years after the change, the man only needs to look around the stadium on match day to realise that he has failed to sell this re-brand to the fans. On that basis he should return the club to it's traditional colours as it's clearly the wish of his customers.

True, I don't think he will do either now though, but he can't tell us what to wear.....

Annis has always been against the rebrand and I was at the very first meeting regarding the opposition to it along with him in the Ninian pub.

I dont know one person who doesnt want a return to blue, we just all have different views on how we think we should go about it.

Using myself as an example. I often get labelled as a tan arselicker or a pro red which simply isn't true. I just wont let the rebrand cloud my judgement on other decisions Tan has made. Things get heated on here but its only because we all share a passion for CCFC.

Annis, I hope you get this meeting with Tan and feel its a great opportunity to explain, straight from the fans what we all feel and that we all just have different lengths we are willing to go to, that is where the division lies. What I will add is if you get this meeting in might be in your interest to take a "neutral" or not an anti tan person along with you to stop the notion that certain agendas will be pushed if that meeting occurs.

Annis has always been against the rebrand and I was at the very first meeting regarding the opposition to it along with him in the Ninian pub.

I dont know one person who doesnt want a return to blue, we just all have different views on how we think we should go about it.

Using myself as an example. I often get labelled as a tan arselicker or a pro red which simply isn't true. I just wont let the rebrand cloud my judgement on other decisions Tan has made. Things get heated on here but its only because we all share a passion for CCFC.

Annis, I hope you get this meeting with Tan and feel its a great opportunity to explain, straight from the fans what we all feel and that we all just have different lengths we are willing to go to, that is where the division lies. What I will add is if you get this meeting in might be in your interest to take a "neutral" or not an anti tan person along with you to stop the notion that certain agendas will be pushed if that meeting occurs.

Cheers Craig for your honesty as you were with me in I think June/July 2012? at the meeting I called against Rebrand at Ninian Park Pub in a midweek night

I really hope this meeting will be honoured

f**k Tan, even if he turned us back to blue it wont be enough.

Tan Out

f**k Tan, even if he turned us back to blue it wont be enough.

Tan Out

Spot on.

Our history and tradition is now tainted because of this guys actions. Looking at our kit history should make people feel sick.

I don't see why we should forgive him. He's a massive clown as is Lim, Mackay and Moody.

f**k Tan, even if he turned us back to blue it wont be enough.

Tan Out

Spot on.

Our history and tradition is now tainted because of this guys actions. Looking at our kit history should make people feel sick.

I don't see why we should forgive him. He's a massive clown as is Lim, Mackay and Moody.

Says two people who've changed their opinions during this farce.
I've felt the same since day one, f**k red and any of it's supporters.
But if Tan changed us back and turned the debt to equity, I'd definitely give him a chance.

Says two people who've changed their opinions during this farce.

Ask Mr Chuckles...I've been against red from the beginning. Have I trolled? Yes. I've not disputed that but I've been against blue since the beginning.

I've felt the same since day one, f**k red and any of it's supporters.

1) There's been no red army
2) Considering you've been against it since the beginning why have you don't anything?

But if Tan changed us back and turned the debt to equity, I'd definitely give him a chance.

I wouldn't. He's shit on the club and needs to go.

Says two people who've changed their opinions during this farce.

Ask Mr Chuckles...I've been against red from the beginning. Have I trolled? Yes. I've not disputed that but I've been against blue since the beginning.

Uh?

f**k Tan, even if he turned us back to blue it wont be enough.

Tan Out

Spot on.

Our history and tradition is now tainted because of this guys actions. Looking at our kit history should make people feel sick.

I don't see why we should forgive him. He's a massive clown as is Lim, Mackay and Moody.

Says two people who've changed their opinions during this farce.
I've felt the same since day one, f**k red and any of it's supporters.
But if Tan changed us back and turned the debt to equity, I'd definitely give him a chance.

bullshit ive never suported the red thsts bollocks

Was told some very undesirdable people wanted my address i was that vocal agaibst it, i then toned it down.

f**k Tan, even if he turned us back to blue it wont be enough.

Tan Out

Spot on.

Our history and tradition is now tainted because of this guys actions. Looking at our kit history should make people feel sick.

I don't see why we should forgive him. He's a massive clown as is Lim, Mackay and Moody.

Says two people who've changed their opinions during this farce.
I've felt the same since day one, f**k red and any of it's supporters.
But if Tan changed us back and turned the debt to equity, I'd definitely give him a chance.

bullshit ive never suported the red thsts bollocks

Was told some very undesirdable people wanted my address i was that vocal agaibst it, i then toned it down.

Totally out of order Pixie. Some of our fans disgust me.

f**k Tan, even if he turned us back to blue it wont be enough.

Tan Out

Spot on.

Our history and tradition is now tainted because of this guys actions. Looking at our kit history should make people feel sick.

I don't see why we should forgive him. He's a massive clown as is Lim, Mackay and Moody.

Says two people who've changed their opinions during this farce.
I've felt the same since day one, f**k red and any of it's supporters.
But if Tan changed us back and turned the debt to equity, I'd definitely give him a chance.

bullshit ive never suported the red thsts bollocks

Was told some very undesirdable people wanted my address i was that vocal agaibst it, i then toned it down.

Totally out of order Pixie. Some of our fans disgust me.

suggesting i supported the red disgusts me more

Tried to give Tan a chance as he did do some good things but i never supported te rebrand thats just bullshit.

i couldnt care if we had stayed up after tomorrow im out until hes gone.

So if he apologised, reverted us back to blue and converted his debt to equity, you wouldnt give him another chance?

Good job you none have you have ever fucked up and had another chance........oh wait........

So if he apologised, reverted us back to blue and converted his debt to equity, you wouldnt give him another chance?

Good job you none have you have ever fucked up and had another chance........oh wait........

In English please

So if he apologised, reverted us back to blue and converted his debt to equity, you wouldnt give him another chance?

Good job you none have you have ever fucked up and had another chance........oh wait........

In English please

"Good job none of you" that should be. Must have had a brain fart

So if he apologised, reverted us back to blue and converted his debt to equity, you wouldnt give him another chance?

Good job you none have you have ever fucked up and had another chance........oh wait........

In English please

"Good job none of you" that should be. Must have had a brain fart

Oh come on this is more than a f**k up the guy is a lunatic and its clealry beyond repair. Its best for all parties to go seperate ways

So if he apologised, reverted us back to blue and converted his debt to equity, you wouldnt give him another chance?

Good job you none have you have ever fucked up and had another chance........oh wait........

In English please

"Good job none of you" that should be. Must have had a brain fart

Oh come on this is more than a f**k up the guy is a lunatic and its clealry beyond repaif. Its best for all parties to go seperate ways

Depends who the new owner would be

So if he apologised, reverted us back to blue and converted his debt to equity, you wouldnt give him another chance?

Good job you none have you have ever fucked up and had another chance........oh wait........

In English please

"Good job none of you" that should be. Must have had a brain fart

Oh come on this is more than a f**k up the guy is a lunatic and its clealry beyond repaif. Its best for all parties to go seperate ways

Depends who the new owner would be

If Tan reversed everything and stayed we would all be thinking what the hell is he going to do next.

If a new owner came in this time we will all be vary of it.

So if he apologised, reverted us back to blue and converted his debt to equity, you wouldnt give him another chance?

Good job you none have you have ever fucked up and had another chance........oh wait........

In English please

"Good job none of you" that should be. Must have had a brain fart

Oh come on this is more than a f**k up the guy is a lunatic and its clealry beyond repair. Its best for all parties to go seperate ways

f**k Tan, even if he turned us back to blue it wont be enough.

Tan Out

Spot on.

Our history and tradition is now tainted because of this guys actions. Looking at our kit history should make people feel sick.

I don't see why we should forgive him. He's a massive clown as is Lim, Mackay and Moody.

Says two people who've changed their opinions during this farce.
I've felt the same since day one, f**k red and any of it's supporters.
But if Tan changed us back and turned the debt to equity, I'd definitely give him a chance.

bullshit ive never suported the red thsts bollocks

Was told some very undesirdable people wanted my address i was that vocal agaibst it, i then toned it down.

I wasn't implying that you supported the red, I know that wasn't the case, just that I remember you didn't seem that fussed with the rebrand a year or so ago.

Says two people who've changed their opinions during this farce.

Ask Mr Chuckles...I've been against red from the beginning. Have I trolled? Yes. I've not disputed that but I've been against blue since the beginning.

I've felt the same since day one, f**k red and any of it's supporters.

1) There's been no red army
2) Considering you've been against it since the beginning why have you don't anything?

But if Tan changed us back and turned the debt to equity, I'd definitely give him a chance.

I wouldn't. He's shit on the club and needs to go.

I just remember you starting different groups every other week, one minute pro blue next minute pro Tan. You may have been trolling, either way it made you look like a right c**t.
I didn't go to a single home game the season we were promoted, granted a lot of that was down to being banged up most of the season, but having seen how red wearers were taking over the stadium, I've made an effort to go to games the last season and wear blue, which for me is something as I never wore colours.
If people have any ideas on what will work, then I'll happily join in. But boycotting during last season made no sense to me as we'd still sell out, I've attended protests, worn blue and vocally backed my support for blue, apart from some criminal ways, I can't think of anything else I could've done.