Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:42 am
CardiffN wrote:I have been alot on this forum and im one of those who read more than i post. I like to see others opinions and see things from both sides.
I would like to state than i am not a fan of either managers work this year. Both have failed but i do support OGS 100% now, just like i supported Malky 100%.
I see many topics about stats on how Malky would kept us up, how OGS will keep us up/down and how bad transfers both have done. The reason i am making this post is because i saw a topic here discussing how Malky would have failed to keep us up based on facts.
Link: http://www.cardiffcityforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=140562
Lets take a look behind the facts.
Malky ..... 4-5-9 13-28 17pts 0.944pts / game
Solskjaer . 3-3-10 16-37 12pts 0.750pts / game
What facts do we get here that we actually can agree on? I see some facts.
Malky got us more points. FACT
Malky had less goals against. FACT
OGS gets less points. FACT
OGS scores more goals. FACT
Both managers have failed to get enough points to secure the place so far. FACT
If we read those facts it shows Malky did a better job in his half of the season compared to what Ole has done so far when it comes to collecting points. But does it really show the whole picture?
Malky is jugded after 18 matches, Ole after 16. After the next 2 matches it can look better for Ole or even worse, we dont know yet.
Are there other factors we should look at if we shall compare both managers?
Knowledge:
Malky knew this team. He got them up, he took the good spirit with him from the championship and he had the loyalty of the players because many of them were his signings. Malky also had the whole pre season to make changes and prepare for PL.
Ole: Had to begin from scratch mid season without the knowledge on the players that we require from a manager. Was signed to play a certain type of football and he had to try and change the team to play his way before he could actually see if it works or not.
Conclusion: Malky had a huge advantage over Ole in his first half of the season.
Transfers:
Malky knew this team, he should know exactly what we needed to make our team stronger. Better inside knowledge on the team than what Malky had is not possible.
Malky budget: 50mill
Ole didn`t know this team before he had to sign players.
Ole budget: 5mill
Conclucion: Malky knew the team and still only got us 2 players that look able to play in PL. OGS signings is early to judge but imo Cala, Fabio and Dæhli will be good PL quality players and for 1/10 of the price Malky paid.
Fixture list:
Before Ole: 4 wins in 20 matches
Ole: 3 wins in 16 matches
Conclusion: We have looked like a relegation team the whole season and our form has continued almost identical under Ole.
Now lets look at the facts again:
Malky knew the team, had worked in his tactics over years, budget of 50mill, had bought many of the players and had pre season. FACT
Ole didn`t know the team, had to try to change the way we have played for years, budget of 5 mill, had only bought players based on a few weeks knowledge. FACT
When i look at those facts in the table again the work Malky did for us this season dont look so good anymore. He had all the time in the world to prepare for the season and still we only got 4 wins in 20 matches before Ole came in.
My verdict is that we would been relegated with Malky because when he couldn`t deliver better after so long time as manager how would he change that?
Ole has 3 wins in 16 matches. Less than impressive. Being a striker he still failed to see that Campbell/Jones aint the solution. Tried too long to find a team who could play his formation before he realised that our team only have a few players currently at PL quality.
My verdict is that we will be relegated with Ole as manager.
BUT i dont think Ole has done so bad if compared to Malky. Afterall Ole still has 2 matches left and if he ends up at 15 points from 18 matches i think that is impressive compared to Malky`s 17 in 18.
To end my post: Stats as Facts is a dangerous way too compare managers. There are too many things that can influence results to make a fair judgement on the persons who try their best to make us a great team.
Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:29 pm
LongBall wrote:There are some deeper stats that proves Nathan Blakes point, playing like we did first half of the season you will get found out and legs will get tired. But I'll leave it. What I get from your post is two conclusions. Either the team went up one year early, and the players did not yet develop to handle premier level, or Malky didn't recognise what material we needed for survival.
For Malkys style you need a Forward who can hold up the ball for others to join in attack. In Oles style you need defenders who can move the ball safely. Neither manager had the link in their playing styles, and that is horrendous with the money spent
Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:00 pm
llandaffbluebird1 wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:FACT: Mackay won the games that we had to win at home.
Under Mackay we only played 2 games at home to sides that we were competing with (Bottom half) in the league and both of these were won (West Brom and Swansea). Under Ole we have only beat 2 out of the other 7 and been humiliated in a couple. This shows the difference in the two managers as even though Ole plays more attractive football, Mackay got the job done and when you are in a battle for survival that is all that matters. Mackay would have definitely picked up more points in these crunch games and these points would have been the difference and would have kept us up.
Newcastle were 11th when we played them![]()
Also do home games only matter? Out of these fixtures we scored NONE and got 2 points;
West Ham
Norwich
Stoke
Aston Villa
Crystal Palace
Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:09 pm
CardiffN wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:Mackay got the job done and when you are in a battle for survival that is all that matters. .
If MM got the job done, why did we only win 4 out of 20 in 2013? Malky did not get the job done, neither has Ole.
It scares me that City fans are proud and satisfied by the job MM did in PL.
Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:16 pm
CCFCBluebirds wrote:CardiffN wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:Mackay got the job done and when you are in a battle for survival that is all that matters. .
If MM got the job done, why did we only win 4 out of 20 in 2013? Malky did not get the job done, neither has Ole.
It scares me that City fans are proud and satisfied by the job MM did in PL.
Actually it was 4 out of 18 under Mackay and given we had Sunderland in the next game at home it could well of been 5 out of 19 leaving us on 20 points at the halfway stage in the season putting us right on track for the typical 40 point barrier. So yes the job that was needed to be done (survival) was being done very well.
How does it scare you? The man took us to the top flight for the first time in over 50 years and apart from the first day we had not been in the relegation zone so to me i was satisfied with job being done by him.
Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:50 pm
Forever Blue wrote:CjBluebird17 wrote:Forever Blue wrote:All I will say is if Malky or Ole were today applying for a managers job, I 100% reckon Malky would get the job before Ole every time without a doubt.
I disagree a lot of clubs will be very interested in this summer court case. Malky hasn't exactly left himself in a lot of glory with the signings he's made with a big budget.
I will state now that Malky will win the court case or at very worse Tan settles out of court to Malky![]()
Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:04 pm
CardiffN wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:CardiffN wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:Mackay got the job done and when you are in a battle for survival that is all that matters. .
If MM got the job done, why did we only win 4 out of 20 in 2013? Malky did not get the job done, neither has Ole.
It scares me that City fans are proud and satisfied by the job MM did in PL.
Actually it was 4 out of 18 under Mackay and given we had Sunderland in the next game at home it could well of been 5 out of 19 leaving us on 20 points at the halfway stage in the season putting us right on track for the typical 40 point barrier. So yes the job that was needed to be done (survival) was being done very well.
How does it scare you? The man took us to the top flight for the first time in over 50 years and apart from the first day we had not been in the relegation zone so to me i was satisfied with job being done by him.
The season started good.
6 matches: 2 wins,2 draw and 2 losses. 6-7 in Goal diff.
Then we had no surprise factor left and we were easily countered on the tactic he had.
12 matches: 2 wins, 3 draw and 7 losses. 7-21 in goal diff.
You are completely right that we had not been in the relegation zone. But we were falling towards it at full speed and it was only a matter of time with Arsenal,City and Utd away in the coming matches.
One thing that annoys me with fans like you is that you keep dragging up that he got us promoted so you are satisfied with his work in the PL. Yes, well done but that was LAST season in the championship.
Campbell scored 7 in 12 last year. He got only 6 in 35 this season but if i follow your view on things i should be really happy with his scoring record in PL. Because he was so good last year.
We got promoted, dont mean shit to me this season. Malky did not deliver in PL and he had no counter once his tactic was common knowledge to our rivals.
Thu May 01, 2014 9:17 pm
Thu May 01, 2014 9:55 pm
Thu May 01, 2014 11:01 pm
DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
Thu May 01, 2014 11:11 pm
CCFCBluebirds wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
And i don't think you notice that the '50 million blown' was on course to stay up before tan started tinkering. People are being incredibly harsh on Mackay as he bought the players for his defensive style (which was working) and when Ole came in looking to play a more attacking style the players in the squad did not suit. Also think Ole is getting a lot of unnecessary criticism as it is never an easy job to come in half way through the season and in the way that he did.
Thu May 01, 2014 11:19 pm
DandoCCFC wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
And i don't think you notice that the '50 million blown' was on course to stay up before tan started tinkering. People are being incredibly harsh on Mackay as he bought the players for his defensive style (which was working) and when Ole came in looking to play a more attacking style the players in the squad did not suit. Also think Ole is getting a lot of unnecessary criticism as it is never an easy job to come in half way through the season and in the way that he did.
If you call working getting blown apart 3-0 in 30 minutes v Southampton and losing 2-0 away to Palace because MM was incredibly naive. On course to stay up, we wouldn't have even picked up a win under him if he was here let alone stay up.
. Basing his transfers in two results, probably the only very bad two out of his time in the prem. And then saying we would not of won again Thu May 01, 2014 11:39 pm
CCFCBluebirds wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
And i don't think you notice that the '50 million blown' was on course to stay up before tan started tinkering. People are being incredibly harsh on Mackay as he bought the players for his defensive style (which was working) and when Ole came in looking to play a more attacking style the players in the squad did not suit. Also think Ole is getting a lot of unnecessary criticism as it is never an easy job to come in half way through the season and in the way that he did.
If you call working getting blown apart 3-0 in 30 minutes v Southampton and losing 2-0 away to Palace because MM was incredibly naive. On course to stay up, we wouldn't have even picked up a win under him if he was here let alone stay up.
That is what you call nonsense. Basing his transfers in two results, probably the only very bad two out of his time in the prem. And then saying we would not of won again
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pretty much says it all...
Fri May 02, 2014 12:11 am
DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
Fri May 02, 2014 12:44 am
Jackyork wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
Loan or not the likes of Zaha don't come cheap. Ole brought in more players in that transfer window than any other Premiership manager and also Ole had the full support of the owner and had a full backroom staff to help his cause. Malkey had to work under very difficult circumstances with Tan watching his every move and he lost his assistant manager early in the season.
Fri May 02, 2014 12:53 pm
jackf wrote:Milky p18 w4 d5 l9 f 13 a 28 pts 17 ppg 0.94
Ogs p16 w3 d3 l10 f 16 a 37 pts 12 ppg 0.75
Monk p12 w4 d3 l5 f22 a17 pts 15 ppg 1.25
Looks like the novice wins hands down.
and yet you all take the pi55 out of super gary monk.
Fri May 02, 2014 1:45 pm
DandoCCFC wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
And i don't think you notice that the '50 million blown' was on course to stay up before tan started tinkering. People are being incredibly harsh on Mackay as he bought the players for his defensive style (which was working) and when Ole came in looking to play a more attacking style the players in the squad did not suit. Also think Ole is getting a lot of unnecessary criticism as it is never an easy job to come in half way through the season and in the way that he did.
If you call working getting blown apart 3-0 in 30 minutes v Southampton and losing 2-0 away to Palace because MM was incredibly naive. On course to stay up, we wouldn't have even picked up a win under him if he was here let alone stay up.
That is what you call nonsense. Basing his transfers in two results, probably the only very bad two out of his time in the prem. And then saying we would not of won again
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pretty much says it all...
If you call spending 50 million just hovering above relegation good then you need a head check.
Malky would have most likely not won, he never changed his tactics or style, naive manager who has a good personality and speaks well, offers nothing footballing wise.
Fri May 02, 2014 2:42 pm
Fri May 02, 2014 2:50 pm
Mikey27 wrote: Malky had us on course to avoid relegation
Mikey27 wrote: Not once were we humilated under Malky
Mikey27 wrote: The only fault that Malky had was spending a lot of money on potentialy poor players, but who knows how Corny might have turned out second half of the season (better than Kenwyne Jones).
Fri May 02, 2014 3:10 pm
CCFCBluebirds wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
And i don't think you notice that the '50 million blown' was on course to stay up before tan started tinkering. People are being incredibly harsh on Mackay as he bought the players for his defensive style (which was working)
Fri May 02, 2014 3:31 pm
Fri May 02, 2014 3:32 pm
CardiffN wrote:CCFCBluebirds wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
And i don't think you notice that the '50 million blown' was on course to stay up before tan started tinkering. People are being incredibly harsh on Mackay as he bought the players for his defensive style (which was working)
You have to look at the warning signs. Malky had spent 50mill to make us solid in defence but in the last 12 matches before he was sacked he had 2 wins and 7-21 in goal difference. We had the second worst defence in the league and that was supposed to be our strength this year.
And yes, Malky could have sorted that in the January window but do any of us honestly believe that Tan would given Malky a pound more to invest in attacking players after the failure in the summer? Malky would most likely gone through the window without signing anyone unless he sold someone to finance it.
Being defensive worked great in the championship. But lets take a quick look at the difference in attacking quality. These are the top scorers in PL and last years Championship.
In Premier League we are up against attackers like: Suarez, Sturridge, Rooney, Aguero, Giroud+++
In Championship we met: Glen Murray, Jordan Rhodes, Charlie Austin, Chris Wood, Troy Deeney +++
Malky chose the wrong tactic my friend. Setting us up to be defensive and aim at 1-0 wins wont work against Strikers of that quality, they always find a way to punish the simplest of errors in defence. And when we had none to score the goals Malky had no other strings to play on.
We were falling towards the bottom under Malky and i wish he would have stayed longer so he got sacked while he was in the relegation zone. Not because i dont like Malkyu, but because i believe it would been better for the club and Ole because he would not been seen as the man who got us down there, but the man who failed to take us out of there.
Fri May 02, 2014 11:25 pm
Jackyork wrote:DandoCCFC wrote:MM squad and Ole inherited.
Ole had limited funds due to MM blowing 50 million, I don't think our supporters notice this.
Loan or not the likes of Zaha don't come cheap. Ole brought in more players in that transfer window than any other Premiership manager and also Ole had the full support of the owner and had a full backroom staff to help his cause. Malkey had to work under very difficult circumstances with Tan watching his every move and he lost his assistant manager early in the season.