Annis/Carl - a question for you

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

NO it has not happened yet.

18 months ago Tan said he was going to do that then.
Then different dates were given, but still nothing happened.
The latest date we were given a few months ago was some time February 2014.
There are no reasons at all I can now think of why Tan has not, only Ran knows why.

My opinion is Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, I hope I am wrong and he does it this month.

I have been told by numerous people within the Club that Tan would go now if someone would give him back the £150 Million Debt he has created.

This has to be sorted under the New Premier League rules by 2015.

As to what will happen if he does not, my opinion and mine only, Tan will strip our club to its bare bones to try and get as much money back as possible.

How has Tan created £150million of debt?

He hasn't ,we are not in 150 m debt

Where on earth have we got assets of 100m??

Utter nonense

Players, stadium, sponsorship, training ground and parachute payments.

stadium as no value as cannot be sold discussed number of times due to council covenant or something simlar

40m on players?? Not a chance! We still have to field a viable playing squad. If we went down the vultures would circle.....we would get no where near that.

eh? You think Tan wont do it because you need players? Think you are missing the point here. The point isnt leaving you in a good position on the field, the point is him leaving you bare and getting his money back.

£40 million is minimum. It would be an open market.

shirt sponsor was 3m over 3 years started this season (around that figure)

again missing the point. He could sponsor the short himself for as long as he wants for free essentially.

Stadium naming??? Not guaranteed

again missed the point. He can name it the Bereja stadium or whatever his company is, forever if he pleases. That is worth millions.

8m on season tickets???????

£400 x 20,000 = £8 million

why do you always think you know how much things are worth as it is only conjecture, if there is a fire sale which it will be with us, values drop considerably past experiences with other clubs should surely tell you that? anyway i dont think our assets are worth £100m for this reason. also as matter of interest fair play rules prevent owners using there own companies to sponsor things like stadium name, man c were close to breaking rules with atiade as family connections with the shiek owner, they were investigated heared no more about it so doubtful if tan can do this anyway!

Where on earth have we got assets of 100m??

Utter nonense

Players, stadium, sponsorship, training ground and parachute payments.

stadium as no value as cannot be sold discussed number of times due to council covenant or something simlar

The stadium can't be sold but still is an large asset ,it has no mortgage as its fully paid up ,not many clubs boast that

40m on players?? Not a chance! We still have to field a viable playing squad. If we went down the vultures would circle.....we would get no where near that.

eh? You think Tan wont do it because you need players? Think you are missing the point here. The point isnt leaving you in a good position on the field, the point is him leaving you bare and getting his money back.

£40 million is minimum. It would be an open market.

shirt sponsor was 3m over 3 years started this season (around that figure)

again missing the point. He could sponsor the short himself for as long as he wants for free essentially.

Stadium naming??? Not guaranteed

again missed the point. He can name it the Bereja stadium or whatever his company is, forever if he pleases. That is worth millions.

8m on season tickets???????

£400 x 20,000 = £8 million

why do you always think you know how much things are worth as it is only conjecture, if there is a fire sale which it will be with us, values drop considerably past experiences with other clubs should surely tell you that? anyway i dont think our assets are worth £100m for this reason. also as matter of interest fair play rules prevent owners using there own companies to sponsor things like stadium name, man c were close to breaking rules with atiade as family connections with the shiek owner, they were investigated heared no more about it so doubtful if tan can do this anyway!

yes Al, hence why ive dropped the prices considerably

Ive sold off Medel for £6.8m, caulker for the same and Mutch for £6m, Marshall for £2m etc etc etc

These are on the incredibly low side, firesale or not.

40m on players?? Not a chance! We still have to field a viable playing squad. If we went down the vultures would circle.....we would get no where near that.

eh? You think Tan wont do it because you need players? Think you are missing the point here. The point isnt leaving you in a good position on the field, the point is him leaving you bare and getting his money back.

£40 million is minimum. It would be an open market.

shirt sponsor was 3m over 3 years started this season (around that figure)

again missing the point. He could sponsor the short himself for as long as he wants for free essentially.

Stadium naming??? Not guaranteed

again missed the point. He can name it the Bereja stadium or whatever his company is, forever if he pleases. That is worth millions.

8m on season tickets???????

£400 x 20,000 = £8 million

why do you always think you know how much things are worth as it is only conjecture, if there is a fire sale which it will be with us, values drop considerably past experiences with other clubs should surely tell you that? anyway i dont think our assets are worth £100m for this reason. also as matter of interest fair play rules prevent owners using there own companies to sponsor things like stadium name, man c were close to breaking rules with atiade as family connections with the shiek owner, they were investigated heared no more about it so doubtful if tan can do this anyway!

yes Al, hence why ive dropped the prices considerably

Ive sold off Medel for £6.8m, caulker for the same and Mutch for £6m, Marshall for £2m etc etc etc

These are on the incredibly low side, firesale or not.

You reckon we'd get £6m for Mutch???? I agree he's one of the few Premiership players in our 25 but that's a big price tag especially due to his injury record.

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

NO it has not happened yet.

18 months ago Tan said he was going to do that then.
Then different dates were given, but still nothing happened.
The latest date we were given a few months ago was some time February 2014.
There are no reasons at all I can now think of why Tan has not, only Ran knows why.

My opinion is Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, I hope I am wrong and he does it this month.

I have been told by numerous people within the Club that Tan would go now if someone would give him back the £150 Million Debt he has created.

This has to be sorted under the New Premier League rules by 2015.

As to what will happen if he does not, my opinion and mine only, Tan will strip our club to its bare bones to try and get as much money back as possible.

How has Tan created £150million of debt?

He hasn't ,we are not in 150 m debt

Wez at this very moment we are approx £150mill in debt, rem to bring this back up when the next accounts come out

Every year u say I am wrong and every year I am approx right.

Minimum. Hes an excellent player.

I would be happy if Huw shelled out £6m for him to replace JDG when he goes back to Villareal.

Annis will be about right. Look at the last set of figures and then work out what the deficit is this year.

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

NO it has not happened yet.

18 months ago Tan said he was going to do that then.
Then different dates were given, but still nothing happened.
The latest date we were given a few months ago was some time February 2014.
There are no reasons at all I can now think of why Tan has not, only Ran knows why.

My opinion is Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, I hope I am wrong and he does it this month.

I have been told by numerous people within the Club that Tan would go now if someone would give him back the £150 Million Debt he has created.

This has to be sorted under the New Premier League rules by 2015.

As to what will happen if he does not, my opinion and mine only, Tan will strip our club to its bare bones to try and get as much money back as possible.

How has Tan created £150million of debt?

He hasn't ,we are not in 150 m debt

Wez at this very moment we are approx £150mill in debt, rem to bring this back up when the next accounts come out

Every year u say I am wrong and every year I am approx right.

It will be either around the zero mark or 90 million due to increased premier league revenue ,we will wait and see

I ask you because I do not know who else to ask. Has the debt been converted to equity? If not, will it? If it is going to be, when? What the hell happens if it doesn't ? And lastly, what does this mean with the Fair play thingy? Sorry so many questions but I am worried and with us in a precarious league position, Tan might bugger off. I know this will please you both and I understand this. But with him going so will his money, hence the need go get rid of the debt NOW.

NO it has not happened yet.

18 months ago Tan said he was going to do that then.
Then different dates were given, but still nothing happened.
The latest date we were given a few months ago was some time February 2014.
There are no reasons at all I can now think of why Tan has not, only Ran knows why.

My opinion is Tan is waiting to see if we stay up, I hope I am wrong and he does it this month.

I have been told by numerous people within the Club that Tan would go now if someone would give him back the £150 Million Debt he has created.

This has to be sorted under the New Premier League rules by 2015.

As to what will happen if he does not, my opinion and mine only, Tan will strip our club to its bare bones to try and get as much money back as possible.

How has Tan created £150million of debt?

He hasn't ,we are not in 150 m debt

Wez at this very moment we are approx £150mill in debt, rem to bring this back up when the next accounts come out

Every year u say I am wrong and every year I am approx right.

It will be either around the zero mark or 90 million due to increased premier league revenue ,we will wait and see

It will be that low if and I mean if Tan does what he promised Debt to Equity. We shall see

Annis will be about right. Look at the last set of figures and then work out what the deficit is this year.

Projected profit this year ,Carl confirmed this in an update earlier in the season so it won't go up

Minimum. Hes an excellent player.

I would be happy if Huw shelled out £6m for him to replace JDG when he goes back to Villareal.

I suppose injury free £6m would be around a fair price for a Premiership midfielder but he's never fit.

Medel and Caulker, can't really argue on their valuation either. We won't get our money back on either. Although I'd be holding out for more on Caulker, if nothing else because of his age and that he's British - sounds horrible to say but players from our shores are incredibly overpriced.

Annis will be about right. Look at the last set of figures and then work out what the deficit is this year.

Projected profit this year ,Carl confirmed this in an update earlier in the season so it won't go up

Think about it... How on earth are you going to make a profit.

Your wage bill is at least £40m a year, you have spent nearly £50m on players, paid for a training ground development and a ground extension.

If you lose less than £30m ill be amazed.

Annis will be about right. Look at the last set of figures and then work out what the deficit is this year.

Projected profit this year ,Carl confirmed this in an update earlier in the season so it won't go up

Think about it... How on earth are you going to make a profit.

Your wage bill is at least £40m a year, you have spent nearly £50m on players, paid for a training ground development and a ground extension.

If you lose less than £30m ill be amazed.

Where is the 50 mil on players coming from this year ???? How do you know if the transfer fees have been paid up front in full ? also the training ground hasn't been started yet the premier seating and hospitality is ours for the first time this season ,increased sponsership and tv money's will make our turnover over 100 million this season ,like I said we will wait and see

Annis will be about right. Look at the last set of figures and then work out what the deficit is this year.

Projected profit this year ,Carl confirmed this in an update earlier in the season so it won't go up

Think about it... How on earth are you going to make a profit.

Your wage bill is at least £40m a year, you have spent nearly £50m on players, paid for a training ground development and a ground extension.

If you lose less than £30m ill be amazed.

Where is the 50 mil on players coming from this year ???? How do you know if the transfer fees have been paid up front in full ? also the training ground hasn't been started yet the premier seating and hospitality is ours for the first time this season ,increased sponsership and tv money's will make our turnover over 100 million this season ,like I said we will wait and see

You are looking at this from the completely wrong angle.

You are talking "paper profits and loss" - basically the sum that has to be presented at the end of financial year. As a fan this shouldn't matter as they dont tell the whole story.

You are in debt to those clubs you bought players from by THE WHOLE AMOUNT, just because you only paid half up front is irrelevant. If you spent £25m up front and £25m later or the whole £50m up front - you have still got a negative £50 million.

Depending on how it is broken down (when paid) it can be written to LOOK different come end of financial year. However in reality the debt will have risen by £50m regardless of when it was owed.

Your income wont be £100m either. It will be more like £85m.

The business transactions for the last 12 months will lose you A LOT of money, whether that loss is shown on the books this year or next year makes no difference. Anyone even trying to claim it will be a profitable year is either insanely stupid or insanely naive.

Annis will be about right. Look at the last set of figures and then work out what the deficit is this year.

Projected profit this year ,Carl confirmed this in an update earlier in the season so it won't go up

Think about it... How on earth are you going to make a profit.

Your wage bill is at least £40m a year, you have spent nearly £50m on players, paid for a training ground development and a ground extension.

If you lose less than £30m ill be amazed.

Where is the 50 mil on players coming from this year ???? How do you know if the transfer fees have been paid up front in full ? also the training ground hasn't been started yet the premier seating and hospitality is ours for the first time this season ,increased sponsership and tv money's will make our turnover over 100 million this season ,like I said we will wait and see

You are looking at this from the completely wrong angle.

You are talking "paper profits and loss" - basically the sum that has to be presented at the end of financial year. As a fan this shouldn't matter as they dont tell the whole story.

You are in debt to those clubs you bought players from by THE WHOLE AMOUNT, just because you only paid half up front is irrelevant. If you spent £25m up front and £25m later or the whole £50m up front - you have still got a negative £50 million.

Depending on how it is broken down (when paid) it can be written to LOOK different come end of financial year. However in reality the debt will have risen by £50m regardless of when it was owed.

Your income wont be £100m either. It will be more like £85m.

The business transactions for the last 12 months will lose you A LOT of money, whether that loss is shown on the books this year or next year makes no difference. Anyone even trying to claim it will be a profitable year is either insanely stupid or insanely naive.

im am looking at it from a business view which is the correct way of doing it ,future liabilities only become in play when they are date due, as many so called debts never come in to play as normally a player/club liabilities don't come around due to being moved on from the club and also ie lang stone debts get written down when paid off early like i said we will wait and see but i would worry about Swansea debt this season as you have made massive signings, your wage bill has nearly gone up by 1/3 ,you have not sold any players to balance the books like in previous season ,decease in crowds ,large pay off to your manager ,are your directors going to put their hands in their pockets like tan does ????

Annis will be about right. Look at the last set of figures and then work out what the deficit is this year.

Projected profit this year ,Carl confirmed this in an update earlier in the season so it won't go up

Think about it... How on earth are you going to make a profit.

Your wage bill is at least £40m a year, you have spent nearly £50m on players, paid for a training ground development and a ground extension.

If you lose less than £30m ill be amazed.

Where is the 50 mil on players coming from this year ???? How do you know if the transfer fees have been paid up front in full ? also the training ground hasn't been started yet the premier seating and hospitality is ours for the first time this season ,increased sponsership and tv money's will make our turnover over 100 million this season ,like I said we will wait and see

You are looking at this from the completely wrong angle.

You are talking "paper profits and loss" - basically the sum that has to be presented at the end of financial year. As a fan this shouldn't matter as they dont tell the whole story.

You are in debt to those clubs you bought players from by THE WHOLE AMOUNT, just because you only paid half up front is irrelevant. If you spent £25m up front and £25m later or the whole £50m up front - you have still got a negative £50 million.

Depending on how it is broken down (when paid) it can be written to LOOK different come end of financial year. However in reality the debt will have risen by £50m regardless of when it was owed.

Your income wont be £100m either. It will be more like £85m.

The business transactions for the last 12 months will lose you A LOT of money, whether that loss is shown on the books this year or next year makes no difference. Anyone even trying to claim it will be a profitable year is either insanely stupid or insanely naive.

im am looking at it from a business view which is the correct way of doing it ,future liabilities only become in play when they are date due, as many so called debts never come in to play as normally a player/club liabilities don't come around due to being moved on from the club and also ie lang stone debts get written down when paid off early like i said we will wait and see but i would worry about Swansea debt this season as you have made massive signings, your wage bill has nearly gone up by 1/3 ,you have not sold any players to balance the books like in previous season ,decease in crowds ,large pay off to your manager ,are your directors going to put their hands in their pockets like tan does ????

Thats such rubbish wes and you know it.

Wether you owe it this year or next year - YOU OWE IT.

Which means you debt has risen by £50m of transfers this year, not £25m, not £20m but the whole £50m.

How you wish to write it come end of financial year is another story. But when Annis says debt has risen considerably - he absolutely right. This year will not be profitable, whether it shows a profit or not. As a result of this year will be heavy losses next year from the actions taken this year.

Wake up.

Annis will be about right. Look at the last set of figures and then work out what the deficit is this year.

Projected profit this year ,Carl confirmed this in an update earlier in the season so it won't go up

Think about it... How on earth are you going to make a profit.

Your wage bill is at least £40m a year, you have spent nearly £50m on players, paid for a training ground development and a ground extension.

If you lose less than £30m ill be amazed.

Where is the 50 mil on players coming from this year ???? How do you know if the transfer fees have been paid up front in full ? also the training ground hasn't been started yet the premier seating and hospitality is ours for the first time this season ,increased sponsership and tv money's will make our turnover over 100 million this season ,like I said we will wait and see

You are looking at this from the completely wrong angle.

You are talking "paper profits and loss" - basically the sum that has to be presented at the end of financial year. As a fan this shouldn't matter as they dont tell the whole story.

You are in debt to those clubs you bought players from by THE WHOLE AMOUNT, just because you only paid half up front is irrelevant. If you spent £25m up front and £25m later or the whole £50m up front - you have still got a negative £50 million.

Depending on how it is broken down (when paid) it can be written to LOOK different come end of financial year. However in reality the debt will have risen by £50m regardless of when it was owed.

Your income wont be £100m either. It will be more like £85m.

The business transactions for the last 12 months will lose you A LOT of money, whether that loss is shown on the books this year or next year makes no difference. Anyone even trying to claim it will be a profitable year is either insanely stupid or insanely naive.

im am looking at it from a business view which is the correct way of doing it ,future liabilities only become in play when they are date due, as many so called debts never come in to play as normally a player/club liabilities don't come around due to being moved on from the club and also ie lang stone debts get written down when paid off early like i said we will wait and see but i would worry about Swansea debt this season as you have made massive signings, your wage bill has nearly gone up by 1/3 ,you have not sold any players to balance the books like in previous season ,decease in crowds ,large pay off to your manager ,are your directors going to put their hands in their pockets like tan does ????

spot on.........its not if this and but that..the accounts are the accounts..........as we have just seen with Acorn, it wasnt a briefcase with 8mil in it..........as you say he moved on and thats 5 mil that will not be owed.......all the players we owe other clubs money for could possibly move on durring their contracts at a profit

Please dont give creedence to such stupidity, it makes you look similarly foolish.

YOU OWE £50m from these players. If you split it as £25m this year and £25m next then thats fine. You are still liabke for exactly the same as if it is paid up front, it is just written differently.

Its like be buying £100,000 car with my £20,000 income and because I only has to pay £10,000 up front, refuting any claim that my debt has worsened because im on course to make a £10,000 profit

Utterly ridiculous. I would still be £90,000 in debt meaning the £10,000 "profit" is just for show and not the reality of the situation. You as fans surely would want the real story rather than the business spin?

Please dont give creedence to such stupidity, it makes you look similarly foolish.

YOU OWE £50m from these players. If you split it as £25m this year and £25m next then thats fine. You are still liabke for exactly the same as if it is paid up front, it is just written differently.

Its like be buying £100,000 car with my £20,000 income and because I only has to pay £10,000 up front, refuting any claim that my debt has worsened because im on course to make a £10,000 profit

Utterly ridiculous. I would still be £90,000 in debt meaning the £10,000 "profit" is just for show and not the reality of the situation. You as fans surely would want the real story rather than the business spin?

We will wait and see but I will more than be worried about your own accounts this season roathy who's going to fund your losses ? Is huw going dip his hand in his own pocket ? Has any of the Swansea so called welsh directors ogot the money to so it ?

Please dont give creedence to such stupidity, it makes you look similarly foolish.

YOU OWE £50m from these players. If you split it as £25m this year and £25m next then thats fine. You are still liabke for exactly the same as if it is paid up front, it is just written differently.

Its like be buying £100,000 car with my £20,000 income and because I only has to pay £10,000 up front, refuting any claim that my debt has worsened because im on course to make a £10,000 profit

Utterly ridiculous. I would still be £90,000 in debt meaning the £10,000 "profit" is just for show and not the reality of the situation. You as fans surely would want the real story rather than the business spin?

We will wait and see but I will more than be worried about your own accounts this season roathy who's going to fund your losses ? Is huw going dip his hand in his own pocket ? Has any of the Swansea so called welsh directors ogot the money to so it ?

There is no "wait and sees", we know how much you have spent and we know the income of a prem team. You will make a heavy loss, whether that is bore by the club this season or next makes little difference.

As for Swansea we operate in the black. Im as worried for our accounts as I am about killer tomato soup men from outta space - (not worried at all, in case you are wondering). We should make record breaking profits this year (genuine profits too, not just paper profits) Do the math

Please dont give creedence to such stupidity, it makes you look similarly foolish.

YOU OWE £50m from these players. If you split it as £25m this year and £25m next then thats fine. You are still liabke for exactly the same as if it is paid up front, it is just written differently.

Its like be buying £100,000 car with my £20,000 income and because I only has to pay £10,000 up front, refuting any claim that my debt has worsened because im on course to make a £10,000 profit

Utterly ridiculous. I would still be £90,000 in debt meaning the £10,000 "profit" is just for show and not the reality of the situation. You as fans surely would want the real story rather than the business spin?

We will wait and see but I will more than be worried about your own accounts this season roathy who's going to fund your losses ? Is huw going dip his hand in his own pocket ? Has any of the Swansea so called welsh directors ogot the money to so it ?

There is no "wait and sees", we know how much you have spent and we know the income of a prem team. You will make a heavy loss, whether that is bore by the club this season or next makes little difference.

As for Swansea we operate in the black. Im as worried for our accounts as I am about killer tomato soup men from outta space - (not worried at all, in case you are wondering). We should make record breaking profits this year (genuine profits too, not just paper profits) Do the math

You will make record losses this season you do the maths ,your crowd's are down ,and you've spent record amounts on transfers ,wages and runing cost s ,you sold players and had compo fees as income in previous season ,you blab on about us buy just worry about your club ,how are you going to fund your losses with no sugar daddy ?

You will make record losses this season you do the maths ,your crowd's are down ,and you've spent record amounts on transfers ,wages and runing cost s ,you sold players and had compo fees as income in previous season ,you blab on about us buy just worry about your club ,how are you going to fund your losses with no sugar daddy ?

Always happy to discuss sensibly Wes but not for the first time in this thread you seem to be once again talking nonsense.

Crowds down? Where? we made a £16m profit last year which included £7m income from transfers. This year our income will go up by £30m.... Again, you do the math and tell me how we arent going to make record profits let alone record losses

In fact, are you happy to put your money where your mouth is and have a sticky thread with £20 to charity? In fact I will make a £100 donation to a charity of your choice of we make record losses and you can just make a £20 donation if we make record profits.

Or are you just trolling to deflect your worsening financial position?

How can any Cardiff fan suggest that Swansea's accounts should be more worrying than ours?!

How can any Cardiff fan suggest that Swansea's accounts should be more worrying than ours?!

Have I said that. ? Roathy should worry about Swansea rather than keep blabing on about ours

How can any Cardiff fan suggest that Swansea's accounts should be more worrying than ours?!

Have I said that. ? Roathy should worry about Swansea rather than keep blabing on about ours

You're certainly implying it.

How can any Cardiff fan suggest that Swansea's accounts should be more worrying than ours?!

Have I said that. ? Roathy should worry about Swansea rather than keep blabing on about ours

Why worry about something that obviously doesnt need worrying about?

And you didnt just imply it you said we were on course for "record losses"

The debt will be nowhere near 150million.

Also, Forever Blue - you have said that Tan created a 150million debt. How can that be? Even if it was that figure are you suggesting that Tan spent all that money?

Surely the club was in massive debt before he arrived, a lot of it because of the absolute travesty that is Sam Hamman?

The debt will be nowhere near 150million.

Also, Forever Blue - you have said that Tan created a 150million debt. How can that be? Even if it was that figure are you suggesting that Tan spent all that money?

Surely the club was in massive debt before he arrived, a lot of it because of the absolute travesty that is Sam Hamman?

Its £112 mill in last years accounts as u know.
Yes Sams debt was about £24mill, Tan got rid of that at £15mill.

Well I reckon it will be about £150mill, we will see.