FORGIVE ME FOR SPEAKING FREELY - outsider view

Good points made. But surely scumsea fans should have boycotted the club when it screwed its creditors (local business people, schools. council tax payers etc). But no, you chose to take advantage of their problems (not once, but twice) to better your club's position.
Then received hand outs from the local council, play in a council owned rugby ground with **** facilities, while preaching to everyone else how well a run club you are.
Huw the spew has a record of doing the same in his own business life. So did he get the idea from the club, or did the club get the idea from him?
Either way, both have got a good income from going bankrupt, and then relying on the local council and taxpayers to sort it our for them.

Lets not turn this into some petty slanging match (no pun intended). Its a different subject all together.

We made Petty's life hell to the point we forced him to sell for £1 every match was a major major major protest. We then set up a supporters group and now own 20% of the club and have a seat on the board with a say in everything to do with the club. Boycotting wouldnt have done anything, attendances were around 3,000 at the time with ticket prices at around £5 a piece

Everyone receives hand outs, you did too. The land in which you built the ground on was given to you. Te Liberty facilities are excellent, not sure what your point is with that.

Huw Jenkins didnt take the club into administration, not sure where you got that info from. however Swansea as a club have learned from past mistakes, will never let a foreign owner come in and be a play thing - and for over a decade HAVE, not claim to be, HAVE become one of the best run clubs in the country. We never spend more than what we have and Huw spends what the club makes in that year not what we dont have. Which is exactly how a club should be run.

Good points made. But surely scumsea fans should have boycotted the club when it screwed its creditors (local business people, schools. council tax payers etc). But no, you chose to take advantage of their problems (not once, but twice) to better your club's position.
Then received hand outs from the local council, play in a council owned rugby ground with **** facilities, while preaching to everyone else how well a run club you are.
Huw the spew has a record of doing the same in his own business life. So did he get the idea from the club, or did the club get the idea from him?
Either way, both have got a good income from going bankrupt, and then relying on the local council and taxpayers to sort it our for them.

Good points made. But surely scumsea fans should have boycotted the club when it screwed its creditors (local business people, schools. council tax payers etc). But no, you chose to take advantage of their problems (not once, but twice) to better your club's position.
Then received hand outs from the local council, play in a council owned rugby ground with **** facilities, while preaching to everyone else how well a run club you are.
Huw the spew has a record of doing the same in his own business life. So did he get the idea from the club, or did the club get the idea from him?
Either way, both have got a good income from going bankrupt, and then relying on the local council and taxpayers to sort it our for them.

Above

Forgive me for speaking freely, in fact ive received bans for such like in the past, but I just read the "we need our club back" thread. Which I agree with, however after reading it, there was a lot of excuse making and blame shifting....

Lets not beat around the bush. It is not Tans fault. It is the supporters fault.

Tan is doing what he is supposed to do. He is a businessman to acting in his own best interests after being allowed to do it by you guys.

You had a duty to follow the likes of TLG with abandoning paying your cash and you didnt. Someone like Tan judges support to his ideas via cash and not what people say on a messageboard.

Nobody really cared at the time though, it was the chance you had all been waiting for to join Swansea in the Prem regardless of what sacrifices you had to make. People pretended it was for "financial security" but now dont even care that the debt has doubled.

There was nonsense surrounding it all "next superpowe of football", "champions league", "next chelsea", "massive side" etc etc you were all just as deluded as Tan was, who I think expected to become one of the big sides by pumping £50m on players and rebranding. He failed to realise football is not like any other business and he admitted nowing nothing about football - he has learned his lesson the hard way and in my opinion will be looking to get his cash back if relegated.

The problem is though, as football fans, you will never learn. I thought you learned from the Hammam era, then the Ridsdale era and im sure it will be the same once Tan goes. You have an insatiable apetite to be seen as bigger than what you are, which is why you have the mantra of "capital, potential, attendances" - anyone who stokes that ego and delusion with similar ego and delusion pretty much gets the keys to the club.

It is not the owner that needs to change, its the mentality of your fans.

Agree with many of the sentiments of this post, but you criticise another thread for 'blame shifting,' then go straight into a bout of blame shifting.

Glad you agree.

However where do you think I have blame shifted? i wasnt even aware I was being blamed for anything

Still find it mildly hypocritical for Swansea fans to say that Cardiff fans should boycott an owner, when they didn't boycott their owner when Petty was in town.

Some good points made though Roathie.

Still find it mildly hypocritical for Swansea fans to say that Cardiff fans should boycott an owner, when they didn't boycott their owner when Petty was in town.

Some good points made though Roathie.

We have discussed this at length before, tirelessly. you don't seem to take on board what I tell you regarding it.

We didn't need to boycott, it wouldn't have worked - our attendances were 3,000. It was far more beneficial to us to pay the £4 entry fee and vocally tell him to leave... Which of course as you know, we did and then he did

Paying and sitting quietly and clapping the team is vastly different to paying and doing everything in that 90 mins to get the message across to the owner that you want him out.

Either way would probably work - so far neither has been done - which is my point.

Still find it mildly hypocritical for Swansea fans to say that Cardiff fans should boycott an owner, when they didn't boycott their owner when Petty was in town.

Some good points made though Roathie.

we took a more direct form of action that worked though baz , petty was left under no illusion what would happen if he kept on shafting the club as he was and sold the club for £1 , you could always go down the physical threats and intimidation route that certain swansea fans went down but i don't think it would work in this day and age

Exactly, different situations call for different measures.

My point isnt "you have to boycott" like chucks likes to pretend. In fact as I've already said, its too late for that now, anybody boycotting will just be replaced - boycotting was the best option initially and will be again if relegated. But now, it would simply be futile.

Every match should be 90 mins of hostility aimed at Tan and his rebrand, every match is a stage and a platform to express their distain and its passed up every time. Yet when their manager was going to be sacked they stayed behind for 45mins to protest after protesting for the whole 90 mins.

I just dont get it.

the main problem is now cardiff fans are shit scared of what happens without tan , he's run up so much debt in the last couple of seasons unchallenged that you are up shit creek if you upset him , never mind at least he spent wisely

I respect TLG for what he did and thats how he felt he was demonstrating, but there was never ever going to be enough TLG's walking away as the new type of fan(and I dont mean new fans, as we were all one once) and the glory hunter who wanted Premier Football at all costs, outnumbered the fans who care about our identity,pride and passion for our club by at least 5/1.

For every fan that would of walked this season, a red fan would of taken our seat.

So I and many others did our demonstrations by turning up in BLUE,singing BLUE songs,having meetings(7 in total) and going to the press/forums/fbs which has proved very successful as from a stadium which had become 80% red after the Brighton game its now 80% BLUE and away we are 99% BLUE and our fans have kept our identity well and truly alive. At the same time a lot of the fans who went red have now gone BLUE.

We put up with the bullying by some of the so called Red brigade and have shown, dignity, pride & passion will win in the end


We have let Tan know we wont be Dictated to.

By the way we were never ever red or dead.

" WE ARE CARDIFF CITY WE WILL ALWAYS BE BLUE "

Smack on the money.

You can debate the semantics of it not being worth it all you like, Swansea fans cannot come on here saying we should boycott, when they didn't themselves. It's hypocritical.

Regarding hostility at Tan, you again fail the grasp my point - there's not many who DO want him out. You can go on and on ban out what we should do, to get him out, but the sad fact is, the majority don't want him out.

You can debate the semantics of it not being worth it all you like, Swansea fans cannot come on here saying we should boycott, when they didn't themselves. It's hypocritical.

Regarding hostility at Tan, you again fail the grasp my point - there's not many who DO want him out. You can go on and on ban out what we should do, to get him out, but the sad fact is, the majority don't want him out.

For Gods sake chucks, stop being so ridiculous. im amazed you still come back with this same old argument. Its completely senseless.

its not semantics - its reality. We didnt have to boycott as it wouldnt work, we took a different approach which would work instead. 3,000 people boycotting with an average payment of maybe £6 a head wasnt really going to do much is it?

My point was never simply about "boycotting" - my point is doing something that will work. We DID DO that.

You sit there game after game, often in the same stadium as Tan and say and do nothing of any note.

What you did for Malky you should do for your club. And thats all there is to it.

You can debate the semantics of it not being worth it all you like, Swansea fans cannot come on here saying we should boycott, when they didn't themselves. It's hypocritical.

Regarding hostility at Tan, you again fail the grasp my point - there's not many who DO want him out. You can go on and on ban out what we should do, to get him out, but the sad fact is, the majority don't want him out.

first point - you are talking absolute nonsense mate a course of action was taken which worked end of story

second point - well the cardiff dragons deserve all the shit that's coming to them

You had a duty to follow the likes of TLG with abandoning paying your cash and you didnt. Someone like Tan judges support to his ideas via cash and not what people say on a messageboard.

To say this about Cardiff fans, when Swansea fans didn't boycott themselves and still paid their cash to Petty, is hypocritical. You did exactly the same thing that you are now telling Cardiff fans they shouldn't be doing.

That is a pure fact.

Again, you fail to grasp my point spectacularly... NOT MANY PEOPLE WANT TAN GONE. Not even those who are against the rebrand, several posters on here, for example.

My personal opinion is that are far too trusting in this man, which is odd, seeing as he's an absolute lunatic who doesn't seem to give a damn about what this clubs fans think.

So tell me, what do you suggest - when less than 5% (my estimate) of the crowd at a game want Tan out & that anyone who dares, gets shouted down or worse - we've spoken about this in the past.

I'm all for ideas, as I personally haven't got anything in mind.

first point - you are talking absolute nonsense mate a course of action was taken which worked end of story

second point - well the cardiff dragons deserve all the shit that's coming to them

I'm not talking nonsense at all, Swansea fans criticising Cardiff fans for not boycotting an owner, when they didn't do that themselves. I'd say that was hypocrisy at its finest.

As for your second point, I don't think any club deserves an odious leech like Tan & rather than sit on that clubs message board and gloat about it, I'd want to see him gone for the greater good of football.

Maybe that's where we differ.

You had a duty to follow the likes of TLG with abandoning paying your cash and you didnt. Someone like Tan judges support to his ideas via cash and not what people say on a messageboard.

To say this about Cardiff fans, when Swansea fans didn't boycott themselves and still paid their cash to Petty, is hypocritical. You did exactly the same thing that you are now telling Cardiff fans they shouldn't be doing.

That is a pure fact.

Jesus Christ

Where is the banging the head in a wall smiley when you need it? Maybe bold will help:-

THEY ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS, BOYCOTTING WOULDNT WORK WITH US! WE TOOK THE PROTEST INSIDE THE STADIUM INSTEAD, WHICH IS ANOTHER VIABLE OPTION - YOU HAVE DONE NEITHER

Call it a fact all you like, its a ridiculous and pointless fact.

I will get to the rest of your post in another post - this really needs to stand alone for it to sink in because you simply aren't grasping it what so ever. Its insane.

Last edited by Ole! on Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Dress it up all you like, any Swansea fan telling Cardiff fans that they should boycott, when they didn't do that themselves, is hypocritical.

first point - you are talking absolute nonsense mate a course of action was taken which worked end of story

second point - well the cardiff dragons deserve all the shit that's coming to them

I'm not talking nonsense at all, Swansea fans criticising Cardiff fans for not boycotting an owner, when they didn't do that themselves. I'd say that was hypocrisy at its finest.

i know you love an argument barry but ffs , we took a different course of action that worked !!!!! who's to say if petty had bigger balls and stayed the decision by the supporters would then have been taken to hit him in the pocket and boycott , but obviously BOYCOTTING WAS NOT NEEDED because he left after the supporters FIRST course of action

the main problem is now cardiff fans are shit scared of what happens without tan , he's run up so much debt in the last couple of seasons unchallenged that you are up shit creek if you upset him , never mind at least he spent wisely

The majority yes. I couldn't care less. There was life in Cardiff before Tan and there will be life after him. Whether thats after admin and all the mess like Portsmouth had who knows but there will always be a club in Cardiff just like there will always be a club in Swansea. Theres too much passion in both sets of fans for it to die out completely. Both clubs, regardless of the plastics who've jumped on board in recent years, have a true core fan base who'd keep the clubs going.

Dress it up all you like, any Swansea fan telling Cardiff fans that they should boycott, when they didn't do that themselves, is hypocritical.

No its not at all.

Its like two teams struggling for form. One needs to play it to the flanks more and the other needs to play it through the middle more. Thats not hypocritical, thats recognising the two different scenarios and apportioning the best course of action for each.

You are just trolling I think, its play school stuff. A coping mechanism to deal with the guilt of going and clapping.

i know you love an argument barry but ffs , we took a different course of action that worked !!!!! who's to say if petty had bigger balls and stayed the decision by the supporters would then have been taken to hit him in the pocket and boycott , but obviously BOYCOTTING WAS NOT NEEDED because he left after the supporters FIRST course of action

He knows exactly the difference. He's just being a bit of a tool, its his way of coping with him becoming a customer.

If he doesn't wish to boycott then by all means he could take our course of action and organise a mass protest for inside the ground too.... He ignores this however

All the money being 'given' to us is loans and Tan I believe won't convert now. He will convert if we stay up. If we go down then he won't and its admin for us. He'll sell off some major assets to get some money back and then we'll go through.

You really think Tan is going to plough more money into the club to get us back up and convert debt to equity when the club's income drops massively due to the Sky money going? You must be mad.

Tan is in it for himself which is why we need him out. We need someone who is in it for himself and the club. You'll never find someone who's just in it for the club because they're all businessmen at the end of the day, even the likes of Huw and Kenwright, but they're sure as hell more in it for their clubs than Tan is.

We need to get him out. We need to force him out. Don't fear the consequences.

the main problem is now cardiff fans are shit scared of what happens without tan , he's run up so much debt in the last couple of seasons unchallenged that you are up shit creek if you upset him , never mind at least he spent wisely

The majority yes. I couldn't care less. There was life in Cardiff before Tan and there will be life after him. Whether thats after admin and all the mess like Portsmouth had who knows but there will always be a club in Cardiff just like there will always be a club in Swansea. Theres too much passion in both sets of fans for it to die out completely. Both clubs, regardless of the plastics who've jumped on board in recent years, have a true core fan base who'd keep the clubs going.

cardiff will never die that's a fact but what's he going to do next must be the fans major worry because the blokes mental , that blues unite should have thousands of members now , is it still going ?

Dress it up all you like, any Swansea fan telling Cardiff fans that they should boycott, when they didn't do that themselves, is hypocritical.

No its not at all.

Its like two teams struggling for form. One needs to play it to the flanks more and the other needs to play it through the middle more. Thats not hypocritical, thats recognising the two different scenarios and apportioning the best course of action for each.

You are just trolling I think, its play school stuff. A coping mechanism to deal with the guilt of going and clapping.

Chuckle is being pedantic. You did what you needed to do at the time to get Petty out. We ain't done a thing. We could make life hell for Tan every time he's in town. Instead fans just sing songs at him and he responds back to take the pee out of them. He's making a mockery of our fans in every way.

The massive hypocrisy here of Roathie moaning at people of accusing him of trolling when he gives an opinion that many disagree with, yet he's done exactly the same to me.

IT IS MY OPINION. Any a Swansea fan that comes on here saying that Cardiff fans should boycott an owner is hypocritical, because Swansea fans never did that themselves.

There ARE other protests that go on, but the low number of people that attend these tell you all that you need to know, they don't want Tan out....

I can't fathom it myself, but there's simply not enough fans who care as strongly about the red/Tan as much as I and others do.

All the money being 'given' to us is loans and Tan I believe won't convert now. He will convert if we stay up. If we go down then he won't and its admin for us. He'll sell off some major assets to get some money back and then we'll go through.

You really think Tan is going to plough more money into the club to get us back up and convert debt to equity when the club's income drops massively due to the Sky money going? You must be mad.

Tan is in it for himself which is why we need him out. We need someone who is in it for himself and the club. You'll never find someone who's just in it for the club because they're all businessmen at the end of the day, even the likes of Huw and Kenwright, but they're sure as hell more in it for their clubs than Tan is.

We need to get him out. We need to force him out. Don't fear the consequences.

Sense at last.

Although this debt to equity seems pie in the sky anyway regardless of relegation. Partial debt to equity yes, as he wants to buy the remaining % of the club. But its not worth over £100m so why write it off in order to secure it when he can just write off the amount its worth.

the main problem is now cardiff fans are shit scared of what happens without tan , he's run up so much debt in the last couple of seasons unchallenged that you are up shit creek if you upset him , never mind at least he spent wisely

The majority yes. I couldn't care less. There was life in Cardiff before Tan and there will be life after him. Whether thats after admin and all the mess like Portsmouth had who knows but there will always be a club in Cardiff just like there will always be a club in Swansea. Theres too much passion in both sets of fans for it to die out completely. Both clubs, regardless of the plastics who've jumped on board in recent years, have a true core fan base who'd keep the clubs going.

cardiff will never die that's a fact but what's he going to do next must be the fans major worry because the blokes mental , that blues unite should have thousands of members now , is it still going ?

The sooner Tan goes, we enter admin, and our fans focus on the real issues the better mate. The reason for that is, now we're in the PL too many of our fans have a focus on you. We should not be focusing on a mid table PL club like yourself, we should be focusing on ourselves and what we do.

A lot of fans won't stand up to Tan because they need to be in the PL because Swansea are in the PL. I quite frankly couldn't care less. Id miss the derby but if we drew you in the cups I'd love it. You had years of being below us yet our fans cant seem to accept we might need years and years of being below you to get things straight and our club in order.

The simple fact is, if you weren't in the PL now a lot more of our fans would have stood up to Tan but the thought of us going down and being in a league or two below our rivals again haunts a lot of our fans. Thats the truth and I'm willing to admit it. Im passed giving a crap about Tan and its time we told the truth. Only then can we kick on and get this man out when we're honest with ourselves.

The massive hypocrisy here of Roathie moaning at people of accusing him of trolling when he gives an opinion that many disagree with, yet he's done exactly the same to me.

you arent disagreeing though, you are ignoring exactly what im telling you. You are trolling. The facts tell us both that the situations are different, common sense tells us that as a resukt different actions were required and you are choosing to ignore it to continue your ridiculous stance. Its the stuff of play school, it really is.

Im explaining to you how its not the same and you are ignoring it.

IT IS MY OPINION. Any a Swansea fan that comes on here saying that Cardiff fans should boycott an owner is hypocritical, because Swansea fans never did that themselves.

your opinion is wrong then, because it is clearly different. If you think every situation must be handled the same then you are an idiot.

There ARE other protests that go on, but the low number of people that attend these tell you all that you need to know, they don't want Tan out....

there are only low numbers because people want them to fail. You went to one and walked away didnt you? Why dont you, Annis and co create one on here to make a protest and carry it INSIDE the stadium?

I can't fathom it myself, but there's simply not enough fans who care as strongly about the red/Tan as much as I and others do.

disagree completely. Annis said home games are 90% blue now.

the main problem is now cardiff fans are shit scared of what happens without tan , he's run up so much debt in the last couple of seasons unchallenged that you are up shit creek if you upset him , never mind at least he spent wisely

The majority yes. I couldn't care less. There was life in Cardiff before Tan and there will be life after him. Whether thats after admin and all the mess like Portsmouth had who knows but there will always be a club in Cardiff just like there will always be a club in Swansea. Theres too much passion in both sets of fans for it to die out completely. Both clubs, regardless of the plastics who've jumped on board in recent years, have a true core fan base who'd keep the clubs going.

cardiff will never die that's a fact but what's he going to do next must be the fans major worry because the blokes mental , that blues unite should have thousands of members now , is it still going ?

The sooner Tan goes, we enter admin, and our fans focus on the real issues the better mate. The reason for that is, now we're in the PL too many of our fans have a focus on you. We should not be focusing on a mid table PL club like yourself, we should be focusing on ourselves and what we do.

A lot of fans won't stand up to Tan because they need to be in the PL because Swansea are in the PL. I quite frankly couldn't care less. Id miss the derby but if we drew you in the cups I'd love it. You had years of being below us yet our fans cant seem to accept we might need years and years of being below you to get things straight and our club in order.

The simple fact is, if you weren't in the PL now a lot more of our fans would have stood up to Tan but the thought of us going down and being in a league or two below our rivals again haunts a lot of our fans. Thats the truth and I'm willing to admit it. Im passed giving a crap about Tan and its time we told the truth. Only then can we kick on and get this man out when we're honest with ourselves.

Again completely and utterly spot on James.