" Is there any point? "

I thought there was a waiting list for season tickets?

If that's the case then the extra seats would be filled by those.....

I would be very interested to see if they would now buy a season ticket.

[
Annis do you think he should waste 25 million on players in January trying to keep us up. If you were in his position and getting the abuse he gets.

You reap what you sow.

Quite frankly, I'd be delighted if he took his money and fucked off.

" Is there any point In increasing our capacity? "

Growing up following Cardiff City I always believed that we could average 40,000 plus if we ever reached top flight football.

Last season when we were runaway Champions, we struggled to get over 22,000 crowds.

This season in the Premier League as soon as we have played the likes WBA,Southampton(Boxing Day),Sunderland and even Newcastle, we could not sell out. Also during those games on average over 1,500 season ticket holders have not attended.

So next season if we stay when the novelty has worn off, what will happen then? Surely there will be more empty seats even if we did not go ahead with the increase in capacity.

I honestly can not believe how many empty seats there are for the not so attractive Premier Clubs and there are plenty more to come.

What also really worries me is, if we are Relegated what then?

if CCFC are relegated people like myself would've propped them up. However, CCFC have lost me as A 'customer'. Previously I have followed Cardiff in the dungeon but the way CCFC fans have bent over for money is the end of my affiliation. football is dead, if you ask me footall is just international power brokers picking away at the carcus of your hobbie, I think more of us should let go and accept that football as we knew it. is DEAD.

[
Annis do you think he should waste 25 million on players in January trying to keep us up. If you were in his position and getting the abuse he gets.

You reap what you sow.

Quite frankly, I'd be delighted if he took his money and fucked off.

I am gonna have to go to the Doctors I am agreeing with chuckles again

Let him waste his money Annis, we are so far in credit to his loans another 11 million wont make that much difference...

Corky, your right there, lets let him waste his money he deserves to

That's a poor, poor attitude from two high profile fans. Why would ANYONE wish further debt on our club. Until the equity swap the loans will remain with the club.

I despair that people get so worked up about a game of football. The seats were empty because its the Christmas period and some people know what's important in life. I, for one, was not going to walk away from a family get together that will leave memories for life.

I see many partners dragged to football games, their footy mad other halves deluding themselves that their partners want to be there. They sit there bored.

Some put too much into a sport that has no interest in their views. Fans need to be aware that they are only customers. There are fans out there that are just fucked off that they have no say in their club anymore and are therefore acting like children.

Annis your forgetting one thing. The real reason.

The Kenny Rodgers Roasters Baseball team. Will sell out every week.

I felt the same, always thought we would be massive.

but, you have to add that we are not established yet, so a lot of fans pick and chose games still. Plus the football is dire and boring at the moment.

I still believe, if we stayed up for a few years and was a top 8 club, we could attract 40,000.

I do think also that a lot of people who are not season ticket holders dont take the chance on a match day ticket like they used to

Let him waste his money Annis, we are so far in credit to his loans another 11 million wont make that much difference...

Corky, your right there, lets let him waste his money he deserves to

Annis do you think he should waste 25 million on players in January trying to keep us up. If you were in his position and getting the abuse he gets I'm sure you would stop the expansion and not spend money in January.
That's the problem with our fans spent yesterday abusing tan instead of supporting the team but January the first this board will be full of speculation as to who we are signing and the majority abusing tan will want him to spend that 25 million.

Steve No I would not if I was him, but he deserves in my opinion all the abuse he get.I just want him to sell up ASAP.

By the way when Corky says about wasting money, this topic is about stadium expansion, not about Tan and players, so Corky and I were talking about that etc.

Annis, I believed we would sell every seat this season regardless of opposition.

Considering this is our first season at the top in 51 years and we do not sell every seat, you don't play Man Utd and Liverpool every week, I don't think the demand is great enough to justify expanding the stadium.

Carl, don't we have a "waiting list" for season tickets; hence the Gold cards??

Let him waste his money Annis, we are so far in credit to his loans another 11 million wont make that much difference...

Corky, your right there, lets let him waste his money he deserves to

That's a poor, poor attitude from two high profile fans. Why would ANYONE wish further debt on our club. Until the equity swap the loans will remain with the club.

I despair that people get so worked up about a game of football. The seats were empty because its the Christmas period and some people know what's important in life. I, for one, was not going to walk away from a family get together that will leave memories for life.

I see many partners dragged to football games, their footy mad other halves deluding themselves that their partners want to be there. They sit there bored.

Some put too much into a sport that has no interest in their views. Fans need to be aware that they are only customers. There are fans out there that are just fucked off that they have no say in their club anymore and are therefore acting like children.

Wayne, I was just being Sarcastic to Tan, not meaning us getting any further in debt.

Annis, I believed we would sell every seat this season regardless of opposition.

Considering this is our first season at the top in 51 years and we do not sell every seat, you don't play Man Utd and Liverpool every week, I don't think the demand is great enough to justify expanding the stadium.

Carl, don't we have a "waiting list" for season tickets; hence the Gold cards??

Chris,
I think there are 5,000 Gold cards, plus Silver members etc.
I know fans who have handed them back for refunds .

Annis, I believed we would sell every seat this season regardless of opposition.

Considering this is our first season at the top in 51 years and we do not sell every seat, you don't play Man Utd and Liverpool every week, I don't think the demand is great enough to justify expanding the stadium.

Carl, don't we have a "waiting list" for season tickets; hence the Gold cards??

Chris,
Gold Cards I think there are 5,000 Gold cards, plus Silver members etc.
I know fans who have handed them back for refunds .

Wow!

Lucky we will have the Wales internationals to fill the 'bigger' ground, then!

Let him waste his money Annis, we are so far in credit to his loans another 11 million wont make that much difference...

Corky, your right there, lets let him waste his money he deserves to

Annis do you think he should waste 25 million on players in January trying to keep us up. If you were in his position and getting the abuse he gets I'm sure you would stop the expansion and not spend money in January.
That's the problem with our fans spent yesterday abusing tan instead of supporting the team but January the first this board will be full of speculation as to who we are signing and the majority abusing tan will want him to spend that 25 million.

Steve No I would not if I was him, but he deserves in my opinion all the abuse he get.I just want him to sell up ASAP.

By the way when Corky says about wasting money, this topic is about stadium expansion, not about Tan and players, so Corky and I were talking about that etc.

Bollocks to him Annis. Let him spend his money. Trust me his long term plan with benefit him immensley at our expense hence why he was happy to pay the taxman a pittence.

Steve, Tan is not bothered if we abuse him or not. I mean there is no sign of him going after we were rude to him, remember that statement. Tans long term plan is for him and him only like its sod everyones else feelings.

if CCFC are relegated people like myself would've propped them up. However, CCFC have lost me as A 'customer'. Previously I have followed Cardiff in the dungeon but the way CCFC fans have bent over for money is the end of my affiliation. football is dead, if you ask me footall is just international power brokers picking away at the carcus of your hobbie, I think more of us should let go and accept that football as we knew it. is DEAD.

Very true but I just cant help myself being a bluebird - this money and power culture has fu-ked it for me and It just does not feel the same.

We should be having the time of our lives after 51 years out of the top tier - Sometimes I feel so passionately upset it's making me ill, FFS.

The problem with fluctuating crowds at City has always been an historic one. For example, in our first season back in the old First division (1960/61) we drew a crowd of 45464 to watch that famous Spurs side of the day, but our next home game v Blackpool only drew a crowd of 19754. Other examples of this type of attendance fluctuation can be seen over the decades at Cardiff City FC,,,the stats don't lie.

As for the forth coming stadium expansion, its a big gamble. Stay in the Premiership, fair enough. Relegation, & it will never get filled.

The way things are going at the moment, even a lot of die hard fans are questioning whether to re new next season, regardless.

The fact it's been 51 years is the problem. We've lost numerous generations of fans who as kids have been attracted to teams like Liverpool, Man U and more recently Chelsea. They grow up and their kids tend to follow.

It will take years to break this cycle but is is happening. I know many adults who are so called supporters of other PL teams but have started watching Cardiff as taking their kids. The kids now class themselves as Cardiff fans, and hopefully when they are older their kids will follow.

It just takes time and one season in the PL is only the beginning, not the peak.

Unless we go down of course!

I thought there was a waiting list for season tickets at the start of the season which was the reason why the increase in capacity was brought forward one season. No doubt interest will be less second season but that will depend on the summer spending spree.

For me empty seats is all down to Malky's negative football and was one of the reasons he had to go

Annis it's always been that way. In the old old days we got massive attendances,then the club fell by the way side and they dropped off.

When we played Man City in the cup at Ninian Park what was the attendance?
18/19,000 odd, but the games before and after that match?

That's just the way football is, United wouldn't get 78,000 at home games if they were an unsuccessful yo yo team.



Every club has more plastic than die hards when they're successful. Which is why I'd rather have Cardiff Plastics than them plastic somewhere else...

I rem Man City game we got 20,000, next home game I think it was 6,000 approx, But I thought our fan base was so big nowadays that it would not matter who the opposition was and being a Prem Club, all matches would be sell outs and all seats with bums on.

I was never a David Temme(RIP) fan but his words seem to be proving right. " Cardiff fans Cherry pick games " he got slated at the time, including by myself, but was he right after all?

Back then Annis, David Temme had us chasing after every single ticket sale. We'd email, txt, and in some cases even phone people up and ask them if they were coming to the game. Back then we were looking to increase the 2000 turn out per game.

I think in recent times though because good crowds have been turning up they've got very lazy about tauting for sales. It also amazes me why people put up with half the shit they get supporting the club. If any other business treated it's customers in the same way then they'd go out of business in a week. People go there and give up their hard earned for a bit of entertainment not to be fucked by car park nazi's and stewards whose idea of customer service falls below that of a prison guard.

Regarding the car parking at the retail park the club should be sticking up for the fans and pointing out to ASDA et al how good they get it there. They get far better foot fall than at other retail parks in Cardiff simply beause of the football club. Putting up with fans parking once a fortnight for 2 hours is a small price to pay for what they are getting. And also point out that these fans spend money in those shops on a match day as well.

As for the stewards. Why doesn't someone remind them that these "customers" pay their f*cking wages.

Am I the only one who thought that it was a good crowd ? Live on telly, all the upheaval in the last few days, people skint just after Xmas. It was way fuller than I expected it to be.

" Is there any point In increasing our capacity? "

Growing up following Cardiff City I always believed that we could average 40,000 plus if we ever reached top flight football.

Last season when we were runaway Champions, we struggled to get over 22,000 crowds.

This season in the Premier League as soon as we have played the likes WBA,Southampton(Boxing Day),Sunderland and even Newcastle, we could not sell out. Also during those games on average over 1,500 season ticket holders have not attended.

So next season if we stay when the novelty has worn off, what will happen then? Surely there will be more empty seats even if we did not go ahead with the increase in capacity.

I honestly can not believe how many empty seats there are for the not so attractive Premier Clubs and there are plenty more to come.

What also really worries me is, if we are Relegated what then?

Annis, where do you get this from -the only one of those games which you could have bought a ticket for was West Brom -any part of this was due to people not knowing there were spare tickets. The others were all sold out well in advance. 3 of these 4 games we had extra tickets to sell as well due to the away allocation not selling out.

As for ST holders not turning up - that has always happened, here and everywhere else.

I remember reading that something like 10-20% of Man u season ticket seats are left empty.

If we go down we won't sell most of the extra seats, but if we are to compete we need to ensure we have facilities to match the top sides. if the product is there we will sell them easily - what was the waiting list ? 10k I think I saw quoted.

If we go down then the stadium is ready for when we come back up. Who cares if there are a few empty seats in the meantime.

Tim,
First of all its our first season in 51 years, rem 51 years, surely every home game all the seats should have bums on, " not cherry picked "

Tim, We never sold out Newcastle/WBA and yest the seats were not sold out in section 118 in Ninian Stand.

Then surely you could see for yourself, WBA,Southampton and yesterday all those empty seats, all because it was not Manchester United, well what happens when we play Hull, Norwich, Stoke, Palace even West Ham ect home ?

Annis 2 days before yesterday's game all the tickets available in 118 were sold out, I watched them go down bit by bit. The whole ground was sold out. You could not buy a [b]ticket[/b]. The seats empty in 118 were kept back as segregation. The way the ground is set out means we can't put the whole of the returned allocation on sale due to the geography of the blocks.

Newcastle was also sold out. This is the first time anyone has tried to claim it wasn't - apart from the half-wit Swansea fan that is

Southampton was also sold out - a week before the game. I was told this at the ticket office and saw for myself on e-ticketing.

WBA was not sold out no, as i said above, there were 2-300 seats left - and most of this was down to people not knowing tickets were available. I know a fair few who weren't aware.


The crowds for the other games may well be less, we could be bottom by then and who knows what the circus will bring next, on the other hand a new manager might improve things.

As for the extension, even if we fill it for just half the games it will be worthwhile.

Three seats next to me were free the two past game - those seats have different people the times they have been used, so either someone shares a season ticket or Gold member buy them...

I think they don't make it easy to get the tickets... Once we get to a few days before a game the tickets should go on general sale - meaning, you don't need any kind of membership to get them. Or allow ST holders to buy 2 extra.

We have two season tickets in the family so don't want to buy a gold membership as well, but on a couple of occasions other friends/family have fancied coming to the games which haven't been sold out but they can't as don't have a Gold membership.

Some clubs like Fulham allow fans to buy even on the days without any criteria if still tickets left on day, and a couple of times I've gone down on spur of the moment over the past couple of years just to see some football when city not playing (Just a short tube ride for me)... Surely it's always better to have a full ground and no empty seats rather?

I don't understand the point of season ticket seats being empty, ok some people need to work and they can't change it but surely if you can't go you would have friends/family who could just go to fill the seat?

Kenny Rodgers Roasters baseball team will be beamed world wide and will attract thousands to the stadium.

Hassle free customers who don't whinge on about Managers and the price of a pint , and who hold up Nasty banners and write on message boards.

Pitchers who don't cost 15 million bucks and 45 bags a week.

Those second class football fan citizens can really sulk then, teach them it will.

god annis surprised swansealad haven't jumped on this thread

As an established Premiership club yes. Currently a lot of fans who can't make every game but would like to buy the occasional match day ticket are put off by having to pay up front for membership Gold Silver what have you.

Also with two poor sides in Bristol a lot of people who want to see top flight football will think nothing of making a short journey across the bridge and with a bit of luck start supporting us!

Our main priority is staying up.

Been a fan of the Bluebirds since 1968 but emigrated to the USA 25 years ago. Every year I come back to Wales for a visit and get to see the City play at least one game. This year I have watched every game live on US television except for one game - the one that played when I was in Wales. Admittedly it was against Arsenal BUT I didn't even try to get a ticket because of all of the gold / silver member regulations etc. An increase in capacity would probably ease the situation for people like me.

As for VT he realizes that the true potential of CCFC as a BUSINESS lies in the ability to maximize the huge catchment area that we have as a premier team. In order to do this we need to be pulling in a far larger crowd each week so that the income of the BUSINESS is more in line with the larger clubs in the league (Manure, Liverpool etc).

VT, by his own admission, knew nothing about football when he bought the club and looks at this BUSINESS like any other one - if the product is good enough people will buy it. I believe that the sacking of Malky was ultimately down to the fact that VT didn't think the product was good enough because the football that was being played was not attractive enough to pull in customers who are not diehard City fans. He saw his investment as being wasted as we are not in the top 4. He saw his business plan of being able to market CCFC on the worldwide stage (particularly in Asia) as weakening by the week and his investment going up in smoke. All of the behind the scenes issues would not have mattered if the team was winning and towards the top of the table.

Been a fan of the Bluebirds since 1968 but emigrated to the USA 25 years ago. Every year I come back to Wales for a visit and get to see the City play at least one game. This year I have watched every game live on US television except for one game - the one that played when I was in Wales. Admittedly it was against Arsenal BUT I didn't even try to get a ticket because of all of the gold / silver member regulations etc. An increase in capacity would probably ease the situation for people like me.

As for VT he realizes that the true potential of CCFC as a BUSINESS lies in the ability to maximize the huge catchment area that we have as a premier team. In order to do this we need to be pulling in a far larger crowd each week so that the income of the BUSINESS is more in line with the larger clubs in the league (Manure, Liverpool etc).

VT, by his own admission, knew nothing about football when he bought the club and looks at this BUSINESS like any other one - if the product is good enough people will buy it. I believe that the sacking of Malky was ultimately down to the fact that VT didn't think the product was good enough because the football that was being played was not attractive enough to pull in customers who are not diehard City fans. He saw his investment as being wasted as we are not in the top 4. He saw his business plan of being able to market CCFC on the worldwide stage (particularly in Asia) as weakening by the week and his investment going up in smoke. All of the behind the scenes issues would not have mattered if the team was winning and towards the top of the table.

Sense... At last

I,ve been saying this all season.We aint filled the stadium yet this season.

Been a fan of the Bluebirds since 1968 but emigrated to the USA 25 years ago. Every year I come back to Wales for a visit and get to see the City play at least one game. This year I have watched every game live on US television except for one game - the one that played when I was in Wales. Admittedly it was against Arsenal BUT I didn't even try to get a ticket because of all of the gold / silver member regulations etc. An increase in capacity would probably ease the situation for people like me.

As for VT he realizes that the true potential of CCFC as a BUSINESS lies in the ability to maximize the huge catchment area that we have as a premier team. In order to do this we need to be pulling in a far larger crowd each week so that the income of the BUSINESS is more in line with the larger clubs in the league (Manure, Liverpool etc).

VT, by his own admission, knew nothing about football when he bought the club and looks at this BUSINESS like any other one - if the product is good enough people will buy it. I believe that the sacking of Malky was ultimately down to the fact that VT didn't think the product was good enough because the football that was being played was not attractive enough to pull in customers who are not diehard City fans. He saw his investment as being wasted as we are not in the top 4. He saw his business plan of being able to market CCFC on the worldwide stage (particularly in Asia) as weakening by the week and his investment going up in smoke. All of the behind the scenes issues would not have mattered if the team was winning and towards the top of the table.

Sense... At last

Absolutely spot on. Unfortunately the awful football being played and and need for a change of manager is conveniently being totally ignored by the Anti-Tan brigade who are using the sack of Malky to build their campaign

I,ve been saying this all season.We aint filled the stadium yet this season.

We have sold out several times but season ticket holders have reasons for not attending e.g. holidays, work commitments and mainly boring football which also has a big effect on non season ticket holders attending

We are still a sleeping giant, and after all the poor years have a very fickle support but it has been growing over the last ten years. We will always have some games that don't interest people especially when it's Christmas time and people have other family things to do and it's live on Sky.

If we get a decent Manager stay up and start to improve we could easily sell out the increased ground for the majority of games, it's in Tans hands now to get the right Manager and sort out his PR........