TAN OUT BANNER MAKES GUARDIAN WEBSITE/PAPER

Natman red it's grown men wearing red shirts that is pathetic mate.

Nope just getting behind the team, the one that plays in red now. Funny how fickle fans like to forget all that Tan has done for the club! To call for 'Tan out' over an internal matter which we don't know the whole story to by an attention seeking group like BU is yes, pathetic!

Today, tonight and this week we should be celebrating, but those attention seekers are just looking to take the cages of the club further for the personal preferences of a small but vocal minority.

Take a long hard look at yourself.

In normal circumstances, of course wearing the colours of the team you support is a perfectly natural and entirely normal thing to do.

However, given the nature in which the red was foisted on our club and it's supporters by one man and predominantly through emotional blackmail, then wearing red is a very ill thought out thing to do at present.

Not necessarily. But if you want go down that route then you also have to acknowledge that much of the anti-Tan agenda is spurred on by the emotional blackmail via scaremongering employed on this board. Hence the loud voice of a very small vocal minority. How many exactly out of 27,000 stayed behind yesterday????

Especially as the man who committed this divisive act is now actively undermining the very best manager to sit in the Cardiff City dugout in most of our life times.

Until the truth comes out then we are best all reserving judgement on this. If it never comes out, well then it never comes out.

It is, of course, a free country and we should all be able to wear what we want but given the current circumstances, wearing red to a Cardiff City game is, at the moment, at best naive and at worst downright unhelpful.

Supporting my team by identifying with them by the colours we are both wearing at present is un-helpful?????

As for your continued picking away at BU - whilst once again, it's your prerogative - it comes across as bitter and unpleasant. I'm sure I read somewhere that you are a committed Christian. If that is the case, your rather narrow and blinkered view of an organisation whose only goal is to see tradition properly respected and for the ordinary fans to be treated with a modicum of respect, is decidedly unchristian.

Yes, I'm a Christian. My continued picking as you so call it is as a result of the constant inference that I'm either not or some form of lesser supporter, or a phrase I particularly detest given my beliefs and background that I've "sold my soul". I'm also led to believe that as well as all the investment into the club that Tan might also be a Christian and has personally donated money to a Christian Charity based in South Wales. I am simply standing up for myself, my views and others in the same boat and turning the argument back onto what I see as self-righteous, self-centered attention seeking acts of a small group of people who claim to be representative of my views but are most certainly not.

Listen Natman, you are a prick. End of

Natman red it's grown men wearing red shirts that is pathetic mate.

Nope just getting behind the team, the one that plays in red now. Funny how fickle fans like to forget all that Tan has done for the club! To call for 'Tan out' over an internal matter which we don't know the whole story to by an attention seeking group like BU is yes, pathetic!

Today, tonight and this week we should be celebrating, but those attention seekers are just looking to take the cages of the club further for the personal preferences of a small but vocal minority.

Take a long hard look at yourself.

In normal circumstances, of course wearing the colours of the team you support is a perfectly natural and entirely normal thing to do.

However, given the nature in which the red was foisted on our club and it's supporters by one man and predominantly through emotional blackmail, then wearing red is a very ill thought out thing to do at present.

Not necessarily. But if you want go down that route then you also have to acknowledge that much of the anti-Tan agenda is spurred on by the emotional blackmail via scaremongering employed on this board. Hence the loud voice of a very small vocal minority. How many exactly out of 27,000 stayed behind yesterday????

Especially as the man who committed this divisive act is now actively undermining the very best manager to sit in the Cardiff City dugout in most of our life times.

Until the truth comes out then we are best all reserving judgement on this. If it never comes out, well then it never comes out.

It is, of course, a free country and we should all be able to wear what we want but given the current circumstances, wearing red to a Cardiff City game is, at the moment, at best naive and at worst downright unhelpful.

Supporting my team by identifying with them by the colours we are both wearing at present is un-helpful?????

As for your continued picking away at BU - whilst once again, it's your prerogative - it comes across as bitter and unpleasant. I'm sure I read somewhere that you are a committed Christian. If that is the case, your rather narrow and blinkered view of an organisation whose only goal is to see tradition properly respected and for the ordinary fans to be treated with a modicum of respect, is decidedly unchristian.

Yes, I'm a Christian. My continued picking as you so call it is as a result of the constant inference that I'm either not or some form of lesser supporter, or a phrase I particularly detest given my beliefs and background that I've "sold my soul". I'm also led to believe that as well as all the investment into the club that Tan might also be a Christian and has personally donated money to a Christian Charity based in South Wales. I am simply standing up for myself, my views and others in the same boat and turning the argument back onto what I see as self-righteous, self-centered attention seeking acts of a small group of people who claim to be representative of my views but are most certainly not.

Listen Natman, you are a prick. End of

Congrats on the well educated debating classes you must be attending of late! Typical BU, hurl and insult because you can't coherently string something together. At least Alfie could discuss things like this, fair play!

Natman BLUE

This was on the same page

I sit just in front of this guy, very passionate, very funny with good banter.

Natman red it's grown men wearing red shirts that is pathetic mate.

Nope just getting behind the team, the one that plays in red now. Funny how fickle fans like to forget all that Tan has done for the club! To call for 'Tan out' over an internal matter which we don't know the whole story to by an attention seeking group like BU is yes, pathetic!

Today, tonight and this week we should be celebrating, but those attention seekers are just looking to take the cages of the club further for the personal preferences of a small but vocal minority.

Take a long hard look at yourself.

In normal circumstances, of course wearing the colours of the team you support is a perfectly natural and entirely normal thing to do.

However, given the nature in which the red was foisted on our club and it's supporters by one man and predominantly through emotional blackmail, then wearing red is a very ill thought out thing to do at present.

Not necessarily. But if you want go down that route then you also have to acknowledge that much of the anti-Tan agenda is spurred on by the emotional blackmail via scaremongering employed on this board. Hence the loud voice of a very small vocal minority. How many exactly out of 27,000 stayed behind yesterday????

Especially as the man who committed this divisive act is now actively undermining the very best manager to sit in the Cardiff City dugout in most of our life times.

Until the truth comes out then we are best all reserving judgement on this. If it never comes out, well then it never comes out.

It is, of course, a free country and we should all be able to wear what we want but given the current circumstances, wearing red to a Cardiff City game is, at the moment, at best naive and at worst downright unhelpful.

Supporting my team by identifying with them by the colours we are both wearing at present is un-helpful?????

As for your continued picking away at BU - whilst once again, it's your prerogative - it comes across as bitter and unpleasant. I'm sure I read somewhere that you are a committed Christian. If that is the case, your rather narrow and blinkered view of an organisation whose only goal is to see tradition properly respected and for the ordinary fans to be treated with a modicum of respect, is decidedly unchristian.

Yes, I'm a Christian. My continued picking as you so call it is as a result of the constant inference that I'm either not or some form of lesser supporter, or a phrase I particularly detest given my beliefs and background that I've "sold my soul". I'm also led to believe that as well as all the investment into the club that Tan might also be a Christian and has personally donated money to a Christian Charity based in South Wales. I am simply standing up for myself, my views and others in the same boat and turning the argument back onto what I see as self-righteous, self-centered attention seeking acts of a small group of people who claim to be representative of my views but are most certainly not.

Listen Natman, you are a prick. End of

Congrats on the well educated debating classes you must be attending of late! Typical BU, hurl and insult because you can't coherently string something together. At least Alfie could discuss things like this, fair play!

Congrats on the well educated debating classes you must be attending of late! Typical BU, hurl and insult because you can't coherently string something together. At least Alfie could discuss things like this, fair play!

Says the man who called people "pathetic" at the start of this thread because he didn't agree with their views! What a hypocrite!

Natman red it's grown men wearing red shirts that is pathetic mate.

Nope just getting behind the team, the one that plays in red now. Funny how fickle fans like to forget all that Tan has done for the club! To call for 'Tan out' over an internal matter which we don't know the whole story to by an attention seeking group like BU is yes, pathetic!

Today, tonight and this week we should be celebrating, but those attention seekers are just looking to take the cages of the club further for the personal preferences of a small but vocal minority.

Take a long hard look at yourself.

In normal circumstances, of course wearing the colours of the team you support is a perfectly natural and entirely normal thing to do.

However, given the nature in which the red was foisted on our club and it's supporters by one man and predominantly through emotional blackmail, then wearing red is a very ill thought out thing to do at present.

Not necessarily. But if you want go down that route then you also have to acknowledge that much of the anti-Tan agenda is spurred on by the emotional blackmail via scaremongering employed on this board. Hence the loud voice of a very small vocal minority. How many exactly out of 27,000 stayed behind yesterday????

Especially as the man who committed this divisive act is now actively undermining the very best manager to sit in the Cardiff City dugout in most of our life times.

Until the truth comes out then we are best all reserving judgement on this. If it never comes out, well then it never comes out.

It is, of course, a free country and we should all be able to wear what we want but given the current circumstances, wearing red to a Cardiff City game is, at the moment, at best naive and at worst downright unhelpful.

Supporting my team by identifying with them by the colours we are both wearing at present is un-helpful?????

As for your continued picking away at BU - whilst once again, it's your prerogative - it comes across as bitter and unpleasant. I'm sure I read somewhere that you are a committed Christian. If that is the case, your rather narrow and blinkered view of an organisation whose only goal is to see tradition properly respected and for the ordinary fans to be treated with a modicum of respect, is decidedly unchristian.

Yes, I'm a Christian. My continued picking as you so call it is as a result of the constant inference that I'm either not or some form of lesser supporter, or a phrase I particularly detest given my beliefs and background that I've "sold my soul". I'm also led to believe that as well as all the investment into the club that Tan might also be a Christian and has personally donated money to a Christian Charity based in South Wales. I am simply standing up for myself, my views and others in the same boat and turning the argument back onto what I see as self-righteous, self-centered attention seeking acts of a small group of people who claim to be representative of my views but are most certainly not.

Listen Natman, you are a prick. End of

Congrats on the well educated debating classes you must be attending of late! Typical BU, hurl and insult because you can't coherently string something together. At least Alfie could discuss things like this, fair play!

I am not part of BU. And I promise you, just because you debate on a messageboard it doesn't make you any more intelligent or more educated than me. I have no interest in debating with a pompous, patronising bell sniffer as yourself. So suck ya mum

I'm not sure if Christianity should come into it, but my understanding of good christians are people who stand up for values and beliefs and don't back down just because someone waves a lot of money in front of them to make them do things their way.

Although I'm in no position to speak for him..I am not convinced that Jesus Christ would have abandoned his beliefs and traditions just because the Romans offered him more money to dress in a different way or preach in a different way.

Certainly no true christian in my opinion should call people who stand up for what they believe 'pathetic'.

I'm not sure what church you attend Natman, but if you reflect it's values then I'm sure glad my family don't go there.

Listen Natman, you are a prick. End of

Class

I'm not sure if Christianity should come into it, but my understanding of good christians are people who stand up for values and beliefs and don't back down just because someone waves a lot of money in front of them to make them do things their way.

Although I'm in no position to speak for him..I am not convinced that Jesus Christ would have abandoned his beliefs and traditions just because the Romans offered him more money to dress in a different way or preach in a different way.

Certainly no true christian in my opinion should call people who stand up for what they believe 'pathetic'.

I'm not sure what church you attend Natman, but if you reflect it's values then I'm sure glad my family don't go there.

He sounds more like a cult disciple than a christian.

So Natman red is a Christian. So how comes when Tan broke one of the ten commandments "though shalt not steal" (our blue identity) Natman did not even raise a whimper. Christian my ar*e.

I'm not sure if Christianity should come into it, but my understanding of good christians are people who stand up for values and beliefs and don't back down just because someone waves a lot of money in front of them to make them do things their way.

Although I'm in no position to speak for him..I am not convinced that Jesus Christ would have abandoned his beliefs and traditions just because the Romans offered him more money to dress in a different way or preach in a different way.

Certainly no true christian in my opinion should call people who stand up for what they believe 'pathetic'.

I'm not sure what church you attend Natman, but if you reflect it's values then I'm sure glad my family don't go there.

Yes, stand up for something worth making a stand for like poverty, injustice and disease. Sorry but I just can't get that worked up over a shirt colour. What I do get worked up over is the near constant advise myself and others receive for accepting it and the willingness of some to jeopardise the club's future for their own sense of ego

So Natman red is a Christian. So how comes when Tan broke one of the ten commandments "though shalt not steal" (our blue identity) Natman did not even raise a whimper. Christian my ar*e.

Get real!

I sit near there every game and sure they are not even season ticket holders as never seen them befor.instead of partying should you be saving your money to buy mr tan out .with out his investment we would not even be playing Swansea let alone beating them .

I can promise you that they all are season ticket holders. Are you?

yes for years over 120 grounds away with the city done west ham .hull .Norwich Fulham .this season and will be with three coaches of proper boys at Bromsgrove saterday not kids who have only watched them in the champion ship

I'm not sure if Christianity should come into it, but my understanding of good christians are people who stand up for values and beliefs and don't back down just because someone waves a lot of money in front of them to make them do things their way.

Although I'm in no position to speak for him..I am not convinced that Jesus Christ would have abandoned his beliefs and traditions just because the Romans offered him more money to dress in a different way or preach in a different way.

Certainly no true christian in my opinion should call people who stand up for what they believe 'pathetic'.

I'm not sure what church you attend Natman, but if you reflect it's values then I'm sure glad my family don't go there.

Yes, stand up for something worth making a stand for like poverty, injustice and disease. Sorry but I just can't get that worked up over a shirt colour. What I do get worked up over is the near constant advise myself and others receive for accepting it and the willingness of some to jeopardise the club's future for their own sense of ego

These things are not mutually exclusive though.

Like you, I think it's vital that things like poverty and inequality are tackled. I am also strongly opposed to bullying.

The fact of the matter is Vincent Tan has behaved like a bully by steamrollering the wishes of the overwhelming majority of Cardiff City fans. A football club is an integral part of the community and people, quite rightly, feel mightily upset when a very wealthy man arrogantly strolls into a community institution and tramples over one hundred years of important local cultural tradition.

Now, I appreciate that you can't "get worked up over a shirt colour" but if possible I'd like you to realise
that a great many Cardiff City fans can (the shirt colour is just the tip of the iceberg, frankly) and I'm afraid that the constant defence of a man who is, undeniably, a bully grates with many of us.

To wear the red shirt that is alien to most of us and was forced upon Cardiff fans is hardly going to be particularly well received.

I sit near there every game and sure they are not even season ticket holders as never seen them befor.instead of partying should you be saving your money to buy mr tan out .with out his investment we would not even be playing Swansea let alone beating them .

I can promise you that they all are season ticket holders. Are you?

yes for years over 120 grounds away with the city done west ham .hull .Norwich Fulham .this season and will be with three coaches of proper boys at Bromsgrove saterday not kids who have only watched them in the champion ship

Get off your high horse you prick. Just because you have been around longer doesn't make you a better fan. Most of those lads are mid 20s and been going nearly 20 years. Hardly part timers or johnny come latelys.

I'm not sure if Christianity should come into it, but my understanding of good christians are people who stand up for values and beliefs and don't back down just because someone waves a lot of money in front of them to make them do things their way.

Although I'm in no position to speak for him..I am not convinced that Jesus Christ would have abandoned his beliefs and traditions just because the Romans offered him more money to dress in a different way or preach in a different way.

Certainly no true christian in my opinion should call people who stand up for what they believe 'pathetic'.

I'm not sure what church you attend Natman, but if you reflect it's values then I'm sure glad my family don't go there.

Yes, stand up for something worth making a stand for like poverty, injustice and disease. Sorry but I just can't get that worked up over a shirt colour. What I do get worked up over is the near constant advise myself and others receive for accepting it and the willingness of some to jeopardise the club's future for their own sense of ego

These things are not mutually exclusive though.

Like you, I think it's vital that things like poverty and inequality are tackled. I am also strongly opposed to bullying.

The fact of the matter is Vincent Tan has behaved like a bully by steamrollering the wishes of the overwhelming majority of Cardiff City fans. A football club is an integral part of the community and people, quite rightly, feel mightily upset when a very wealthy man arrogantly strolls into a community institution and tramples over one hundred years of important local cultural tradition.

Now, I appreciate that you can't "get worked up over a shirt colour" but if possible I'd like you to realise
that a great many Cardiff City fans can (the shirt colour is just the tip of the iceberg, frankly) and I'm afraid that the constant defence of a man who is, undeniably, a bully grates with many of us.

To wear the red shirt that is alien to most of us and was forced upon Cardiff fans is hardly going to be particularly well received.

Now see I just can't view Tan that way either, I think this view of him had been the result of messages board and social media rhetoric than anything based in reality on what the guy is actually like. I know lawrenson had come up with comments that Tan wants malky's popularity but again I think it's message boards feeding tabloids feeding pundits and going round in circles. Does anyone actually believe any of these guys have an accurate in depth understanding of the inner workings of our club?

Andc again though, I think the rebrand, in the main, had been accepted. The moody incident, I just think we should all reserve judgement until the whole facts come out.

I'm not sure if Christianity should come into it, but my understanding of good christians are people who stand up for values and beliefs and don't back down just because someone waves a lot of money in front of them to make them do things their way.

Although I'm in no position to speak for him..I am not convinced that Jesus Christ would have abandoned his beliefs and traditions just because the Romans offered him more money to dress in a different way or preach in a different way.

Certainly no true christian in my opinion should call people who stand up for what they believe 'pathetic'.

I'm not sure what church you attend Natman, but if you reflect it's values then I'm sure glad my family don't go there.

Yes, stand up for something worth making a stand for like poverty, injustice and disease. Sorry but I just can't get that worked up over a shirt colour. What I do get worked up over is the near constant advise myself and others receive for accepting it and the willingness of some to jeopardise the club's future for their own sense of ego

These things are not mutually exclusive though.

Like you, I think it's vital that things like poverty and inequality are tackled. I am also strongly opposed to bullying.

The fact of the matter is Vincent Tan has behaved like a bully by steamrollering the wishes of the overwhelming majority of Cardiff City fans. A football club is an integral part of the community and people, quite rightly, feel mightily upset when a very wealthy man arrogantly strolls into a community institution and tramples over one hundred years of important local cultural tradition.

Now, I appreciate that you can't "get worked up over a shirt colour" but if possible I'd like you to realise
that a great many Cardiff City fans can (the shirt colour is just the tip of the iceberg, frankly) and I'm afraid that the constant defence of a man who is, undeniably, a bully grates with many of us.

To wear the red shirt that is alien to most of us and was forced upon Cardiff fans is hardly going to be particularly well received.

Now see I just can't view Tan that way either, I think this view of him had been the result of messages board and social media rhetoric than anything based in reality on what the guy is actually like.

Right, are you disputing the FACT and it is a FACT, absolutely no ambiguity about it that Vincent Tan held a metaphorical gun to Cardiff City fan's heads and used a large degree of emotional blackmail to force the rebrand through?

for I know lawrenson had come up with comments that Tan wants malky's popularity but again I think it's message boards feeding tabloids feeding pundits and going round in circles.
Does anyone actually believe any of these guys have an accurate in depth understanding of the inner workings of our club?

I do think that the press are now caught up in a feeding frenzy, but a feeding frenzy entirely of Tan's own making. I spent years working with journalists and in a media environment. I have a good idea of how these things work, indeed, I still have plenty of good friends who are 'hacks.' What you cannot deny is that Mackay is mightily pissed off that his trusted lieutenant has left.

Have you heard his interviews on TV and radio?? Did Mackay take the opportunity to back Tan last night after the win? Did Tan back Mackay when ssn interviewed him last night? No, of course they didn't because as much as the press can be a disgrace, when so many stories are leaking out from various sources within the club and when so many experienced hacks are writing and broadcasting on he subject, including credible journo's like Henry Winter, David Conn, John Cross and Pat Murphy, you know something big is going down. If it was just the red tops, I'd say you'd have a point but we are talking about a serious broadcaster like the BBC and papers like The Times, The independent and The Guardian.

What you also cannot deny is that a young Kazakh kid, who by the club's own admission, was an intern (and the same kid that painted the CCS interior...) and is also a friend of Tan's son (nepotism anyone??) was appointed by Tan, in Moody's place. What you also cannot deny is that the same kid is also being investigated over Visa issues. The club, themselves, have corroborated this FACT too.

Andc again though, I think the rebrand, in the main, had been accepted. The moody incident, I just think we should all reserve judgement until the whole facts come out.

The rebrand, as far as the majority are concerned, as had to be accepted. They didn't ask for it and certainly didn't want it. I still firmly believe that given the choice, the vast majority of fans would still far rather see Cardiff City back in blue.

I've read your posts over the years and generally you seem like a pretty reasonable sort of bloke but I am genuinely staggered by your naivety if you are burying your head in the sand to such a degree that you are still in denial about all of the above. I also think that as a man who clearly has his moral compass pointing in the right direction, you can't see that Tan's actions of eighteen months ago were a dreadful example of arrogance, a total lack of respect and downright blackmail and bullying. It is, I'm afraid a disgrace.

If you are still in any doubt, I suggest that you do your homework and have a little read up on some of Tan's means of doing business in Malaysia over the past few decades. As a man of faith, I don't think it will sit comfortably with you at all.

I'm not sure if Christianity should come into it, but my understanding of good christians are people who stand up for values and beliefs and don't back down just because someone waves a lot of money in front of them to make them do things their way.

Although I'm in no position to speak for him..I am not convinced that Jesus Christ would have abandoned his beliefs and traditions just because the Romans offered him more money to dress in a different way or preach in a different way.

Certainly no true christian in my opinion should call people who stand up for what they believe 'pathetic'.

I'm not sure what church you attend Natman, but if you reflect it's values then I'm sure glad my family don't go there.

Yes, stand up for something worth making a stand for like poverty, injustice and disease. Sorry but I just can't get that worked up over a shirt colour. What I do get worked up over is the near constant advise myself and others receive for accepting it and the willingness of some to jeopardise the club's future for their own sense of ego

These things are not mutually exclusive though.

Like you, I think it's vital that things like poverty and inequality are tackled. I am also strongly opposed to bullying.

The fact of the matter is Vincent Tan has behaved like a bully by steamrollering the wishes of the overwhelming majority of Cardiff City fans. A football club is an integral part of the community and people, quite rightly, feel mightily upset when a very wealthy man arrogantly strolls into a community institution and tramples over one hundred years of important local cultural tradition.

Now, I appreciate that you can't "get worked up over a shirt colour" but if possible I'd like you to realise
that a great many Cardiff City fans can (the shirt colour is just the tip of the iceberg, frankly) and I'm afraid that the constant defence of a man who is, undeniably, a bully grates with many of us.

To wear the red shirt that is alien to most of us and was forced upon Cardiff fans is hardly going to be particularly well received.

Now see I just can't view Tan that way either, I think this view of him had been the result of messages board and social media rhetoric than anything based in reality on what the guy is actually like.

Right, are you disputing the FACT and it is a FACT, absolutely no ambiguity about it that Vincent Tan held a metaphorical gun to Cardiff City fan's heads and used a large degree of emotional blackmail to force the rebrand through?

for I know lawrenson had come up with comments that Tan wants malky's popularity but again I think it's message boards feeding tabloids feeding pundits and going round in circles.
Does anyone actually believe any of these guys have an accurate in depth understanding of the inner workings of our club?

I do think that the press are now caught up in a feeding frenzy, but a feeding frenzy entirely of Tan's own making. I spent years working with journalists and in a media environment. I have a good idea of how these things work, indeed, I still have plenty of good friends who are 'hacks.' What you cannot deny is that Mackay is mightily pissed off that his trusted lieutenant has left.

Have you heard his interviews on TV and radio?? Did Mackay take the opportunity to back Tan last night after the win? Did Tan back Mackay when ssn interviewed him last night? No, of course they didn't because as much as the press can be a disgrace, when so many stories are leaking out from various sources within the club and when so many experienced hacks are writing and broadcasting on he subject, including credible journo's like Henry Winter, David Conn, John Cross and Pat Murphy, you know something big is going down. If it was just the red tops, I'd say you'd have a point but we are talking about a serious broadcaster like the BBC and papers like The Times, The independent and The Guardian.

What you also cannot deny is that a young Kazakh kid, who by the club's own admission, was an intern (and the same kid that painted the CCS interior...) and is also a friend of Tan's son (nepotism anyone??) was appointed by Tan, in Moody's place. What you also cannot deny is that the same kid is also being investigated over Visa issues. The club, themselves, have corroborated this FACT too.

Andc again though, I think the rebrand, in the main, had been accepted. The moody incident, I just think we should all reserve judgement until the whole facts come out.

The rebrand, as far as the majority are concerned, as had to be accepted. They didn't ask for it and certainly didn't want it. I still firmly believe that given the choice, the vast majority of fans would still far rather see Cardiff City back in blue.

I've read your posts over the years and generally you seem like a pretty reasonable sort of bloke but I am genuinely staggered by your naivety if you are burying your head in the sand to such a degree that you are still in denial about all of the above. I also think that as a man who clearly has his moral compass pointing in the right direction, you can't see that Tan's actions of eighteen months ago were a dreadful example of arrogance, a total lack of respect and downright blackmail and bullying. It is, I'm afraid a disgrace.

If you are still in any doubt, I suggest that you do your homework and have a little read up on some of Tan's means of doing business in Malaysia over the past few decades. As a man of faith, I don't think it will sit comfortably with you at all.

Admittedly I haven't looked into Tan's history. On the kazak guy front I can see the sense in that situation as well tbh as moody was suspended to all intent and purposes so an acting role was the only way to go. This guy would have been a family friend so would have reported this straight back to tan and not allowed someone else to come in and open a can of worms and not keep it under wraps.

I hold that it was red or dead and I have insider info on that but I think my interpretation might be slightly different in that tan wanted to rebrand for marketability. Due to the backlash the guy was hurt and was ready to walk, thankfully he didn't.

Ps I appreciate your insight into the journo side of things. Others on here should take note of how to actually debate an argument from you! Lol

Ps I appreciate your insight into the journo side of things. Others on here should take note of how to actually debate an argument from you! Lol

Says the man who was calling people pathetic for daring to not agree with him at the start of this thread...

Ps I appreciate your insight into the journo side of things. Others on here should take note of how to actually debate an argument from you! Lol

Says the man who was calling people pathetic for daring to not agree with him at the start of this thread...

Tell me again where I actually called some one pathetic? No, the people are not pathetic just what they are doing

And chuckles, you've hurled insults at people left, right and centre and personal ones at that!

Ps I appreciate your insight into the journo side of things. Others on here should take note of how to actually debate an argument from you! Lol

Says the man who was calling people pathetic for daring to not agree with him at the start of this thread...

Tell me again where I actually called some one pathetic? No, the people are not pathetic just what they are doing

Fair enough. I think it's pathetic when people just lay back and let a tan do whatever he wants to this club.

tan out!!!!!

Ps I appreciate your insight into the journo side of things. Others on here should take note of how to actually debate an argument from you! Lol

Says the man who was calling people pathetic for daring to not agree with him at the start of this thread...

Tell me again where I actually called some one pathetic? No, the people are not pathetic just what they are doing

Fair enough. I think it's pathetic when people just lay back and let a tan do whatever he wants to this club.

And I respect your view, but I don't agree with it. I'm happy to debate it though but Sunday was ill thought of, irresponsible, self gratifying and I thought pretty pathetic and a poor show. Dialogue is what is needed, not a full on assault. And this dialogue should be through the proper channels.

But as for me I'm happy in red. And about my username, ask annis, I was one of the first members of this forum. I can't change my name to natman red without wiping all that out as I'd need a new account.

Ps I appreciate your insight into the journo side of things. Others on here should take note of how to actually debate an argument from you! Lol

Says the man who was calling people pathetic for daring to not agree with him at the start of this thread...

Tell me again where I actually called some one pathetic? No, the people are not pathetic just what they are doing

Fair enough. I think it's pathetic when people just lay back and let a tan do whatever he wants to this club.

And I respect your view, but I don't agree with it. I'm happy to debate it though but Sunday was ill thought of, irresponsible, self gratifying and I thought pretty pathetic and a poor show. Dialogue is what is needed, not a full on assault. And this dialogue should be through the proper channels.

But as for me I'm happy in red. And about my username, ask annis, I was one of the first members of this forum. I can't change my name to natman red without wiping all that out as I'd need a new account.

And I respect your view, but I don't agree with it. I'm happy to debate it though but Sunday was ill thought of, irresponsible, self gratifying and I thought pretty pathetic and a poor show. Dialogue is what is needed, not a full on assault. And this dialogue should be through the proper channels.

Do you really think Tan is willing to enter into dialogue?

lol its too late for that , he wont bother to listen to anybody unless they bow and agree with him , f*cking hell

And I respect your view, but I don't agree with it. I'm happy to debate it though but Sunday was ill thought of, irresponsible, self gratifying and I thought pretty pathetic and a poor show. Dialogue is what is needed, not a full on assault. And this dialogue should be through the proper channels.

But as for me I'm happy in red. And about my username, ask annis, I was one of the first members of this forum. I can't change my name to natman red without wiping all that out as I'd need a new account.

Irresponsible? How exactly?

Do you really think Tan is willing to give dialogue? He won't even talk to Malky FFS !

The club aren't interested in dialogue.. This is clear enough after they switched the lights off the protest (which backfired as it gave the protest more coverage than it probably deserved!)