I wish we had fans like Dortmund's

Seating and standing wasn't anything to do with Hillsborough, it was piss poor management, crowd flow control and lies.

If you try and put 8000 sheep in an area that only fits 6000 and then thousands get crushed up against the railings due the volumetric area being overflowed should we suggest seating the sheep as well? No, we suggest checks are carried out to gauge the capacity and then the actual number of sheep to fit that area is below the estimated figure for safety reasons.

When people go to gigs and a venue is only allowed to hold so many standing people should we sit them all down too? No, its got sod all to do with standing and seating.

The police, possibly the government, used that as an excuse and a scapegoat to cover their own tracks. Again, people just like to shift responsibility as always rather than use ******** common sense. The police didn't use common sense and people died because of it.

Of course seating was to do with hillsborough. It was brought in shortly after it to prevent such catastrophies from happening again. It was a government initiative. The point I am trying to make is that safe standing works and we seen how good it can be with the Dortmund game tonight.

I was stationed in Dortmund for seven years in the seventies just up the road (Route 1) from Westfalen Park where the stadium is situated. I went to most home games when money/duty allowed. There used to be a lot of Army support and we were always welcomed with open arms. Some of the singing you heard last night was taught to the Dortmund fans by us Brits! Some of my ex comrades were at the game last night. Superb times!

whilst I agree there are aspects of the German model which obviously appeal, I'd say that we would have a pretty good atmosphere if we were playing Real Madrid at home in the CL semi-final!

It is a cultural thing - Germany as a country was devastated, utterly, not once but twice in the last century and were made to confront the fact that they as a country were responsible for the holocaust. This brought about a shift in their collective thinking, made them a 'social democratic' country irrespective which party was in power, and such a culture lends itself to the model they have in football as well as the employment model they have.

I was stationed in Dortmund for seven years in the seventies just up the road (Route 1) from Westfalen Park where the stadium is situated. I went to most home games when money/duty allowed. There used to be a lot of Army support and we were always welcomed with open arms. Some of the singing you heard last night was taught to the Dortmund fans by us Brits! Some of my ex comrades were at the game last night. Superb times!

Lol I had a similar experience but with SV Hamburg, Germany's greatest team. Never liked Dortmund apparently all their fans live in caravans and wear shell suits