ABUSE AND NAME CALLING

This argument is about passion vrs acceptance. To me there are three scenarios

1) - Probably less than 1% are so passionately anti red they stopped going
2) - Then there are the other 98.9 who accept it in their own way
3) - Finally there are the 0.1% who actively want red and all that goes with it,and they are the owners of the club.


Why there are elements in option 2 (the 98.9%) who somehow think they are morally superior to others in that group is beyond me. There are no more surprises next season-

- Playing at home in red
- Blue less prominent
- Maybe the Bluebird less prominent
- The stadium is not going to get any louder
- They will never swap the Canton & Grange

To my knowledge the club refunded a quite few season tickets last years, probably a few Wembley day trippers.

This is about accepting the change, you don't have to approve, but for the foreseeable future, it is our future. I have never bought anything from the shop since the rebrand- That is my way of resisting. But the name calling is wrong, sorry being there especially next season when you have a choice is acceptance

0.1% who actively want red? You are having a laugh, or did you not go on Tuesday.

1% who have stopped going all together and hate the malaysians

5-10% - "Reluctant reds" who cannot stand the red but cannot walk away (I am in this bracket)

89-94% - Active reds / dont really care about the colour just want to watch the football (I was in this bracket until Tuesday night)

I think you're spot on there Polo.

Interestingly, a few more people have now changed "categories" like yourself, after Tuesday.

Many people say they are a "reluctant red" - yet quite happily put the scarf on. Can't be reluctant if you'll freely wear a red scarf!

Gwyn, the problem is you come on here and the other board with your cleverly worded posts trying to insult those who are pro blue. Like I have already said, we are not dumb and you are showing disrespect to many older fans who've paid thousands into the club over the years to follow them up and down the country.

Whilst you may have your views and are now happy that the club is in red and you believe that is the right path, these posts are not needed at all. If we created 10 threads today calling you all sellouts as has occurred in the past you'd be up in arms about it as you and numerous red posters have done and rightly so. However, when you come out with stupid posts with little jibes towards those who want our club back in blue or would rather us go it alone without Tan and take the consequences as a result don't be surprised when you get flak back.

Love the signature barnett

Love the signature barnett

We will see next our next home game...

Reading your previous posts I doubt you have ever owned a replica shirt or a scarf blue or red

Tan has given every fan an option to freely display their red loyalties.

I only posses a snazzy fleece royal blue city scarf but I will be digging out one of the kids blue scarf's for the next game. My daughters pink city scarf will be replaced with a traditional blue and yellow scarf for the upcoming games.

Lets make the next home game a blue day.

No ive never worn colours, I had the old "Echo" shirts both blue and red in 1993 when I was 16 but apart from that never really been one for club merchandise.

Thats why prior to Tuesday it hadnt really struck much of a chord with me if I am honest, but that sight on Tuesday was truly awful and I wasnt expecting it tbh.

I honestly thought majority were reluctantly accepting the red for the good of the club but Tuesday proved this was not the case and many are happy with the red. Thats up to them I am not going to call them sell outs or abuse them, its down to personal choice and tipping points I supposes.

If anything Tuesday was a snapshot of the way the club is going in the very near future. And I didnt like it.

Gwyn, the problem is you come on here and the other board with your cleverly worded posts trying to insult those who are pro blue. Like I have already said, we are not dumb and you are showing disrespect to many older fans who've paid thousands into the club over the years to follow them up and down the country.

So it would suit you better if i didn't use clever words?

Whilst you may have your views and are now happy that the club is in red and you believe that is the right path, these posts are not needed at all. If we created 10 threads today calling you all sellouts as has occurred in the past you'd be up in arms about it as you and numerous red posters have done and rightly so. However, when you come out with stupid posts with little jibes towards those who want our club back in blue or would rather us go it alone without Tan and take the consequences as a result don't be surprised when you get flak back.

Never said I'm happy the club are in red, as for the right path, what alternative did you come up with? so which littel jibes are concerning you? and I'll do my best to try and answer in real dopey words just for you.

I wrote out a big response. But you know what it's really not worth the hassle.
Im not a blue or red I'm a "CARDIFF CITY" supporter.

Well said Nathan mate.

In all fairness he has not targeted any individual and his comments are more general in nature so how this can upset someone like you Gwyn is beyond me considering the comments that you have aimed at individuals in the past.
It is more interesting to note however that you Gwyn have chosen to pick on the pro blue side again even though there is most probably an equal amount of comment made by the red side and if you were not so blinkered then you could easily find several examples.

Never made it personal with anyone who is respectful, if people dish it out, then you got to take it back, I'll debate sensibly with anyone all day, those that insult etc do it because they have lost the argument or to thick to articulate clearly.

On the sensible debate point , unless I missed it you didn`t answer my question on another thread as to what is your personal "trigger point" that would set you against the rebranding (dropping the bluebird , changing from Cardiff City to Cardiff Dragons etc) or don`t you have one?

At the meeting with Simon Lim , like most people there , you told him that CCFC fans would only accept a certain level of rebranding and no more. Have you changed your mind since or is there a point at which you would actively oppose any further rebranding?

Keith

Here it is copied and pasted, it's still up here and there are replies after it, we'll put it down to your age Keith.



To me it's unanswerable, it would be a bit like asking a father what would it take for you to disown or stop loving your child. is there a tipping point, what if they become a junkie, or pedophile or mass murderer, do you stop loving them, my view is you try and treasure the good times and enjoy them rather than never relax for thinking about what if.

That's the way I try and deal with life, and you for one know I've had much bigger serious things than a colour change to worry about, fed up of the what if what if scenario, for f**k sake what if you get knocked down by a bus tomorrow. Just live your lives and try and enjoy the good times when they are with you, because sometimes you don't appreciate what you got and you don't always get a second chance.

BigGwynram

Posts: 4916
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:17 pm

Thanks - I had missed it. As you say , probably down to on my part.

I do think you have slightly swerved away from directly answering my post though.

I thought I had answered it, I don't know what it would take and I don't want to worry about what if scenarios, too much passes by when you worry what if, were you expecting an answer like if he removes the bluebird, and puts the seats up 50% and makes everyone wear a bobble hat scenario, bit like a price list is it? once it get's to that level I'm off, personally can't bear the thought of not having the club in my life, so why worry about what it could do to spoil it, just all seems a bit silly.

I know you love the club and I fully understand your point about unconditional love for a child.But the analogy you use is continuing to support a child if say they bacame a junkie (fully agree with that). My question though was more based on how much tolerance you would have with the dealer supplying that junkie child(in our case owners making that "child" CCFC more reliant on the drugs he is supplying by the rebrand and the promises that go with it).

If your child was a junkie then he'd know a lot of dealers, but at the end of the day if he had no customers there'd be no dealers, don't think I would blame the dealer, to me that is a cop out, it is my son i would blame, but I would still love him and try to help him.

Are you saying that you would give support to the dealer as well no matter what he did to the child as long as the child still got his supply of drugs that no other dealer would give him?

See other answer, if there was only one dealer in the world and getting rid of him would solve the problem, then I'd solve it.

In all fairness he has not targeted any individual and his comments are more general in nature so how this can upset someone like you Gwyn is beyond me considering the comments that you have aimed at individuals in the past.
It is more interesting to note however that you Gwyn have chosen to pick on the pro blue side again even though there is most probably an equal amount of comment made by the red side and if you were not so blinkered then you could easily find several examples.

Never made it personal with anyone who is respectful, if people dish it out, then you got to take it back, I'll debate sensibly with anyone all day, those that insult etc do it because they have lost the argument or to thick to articulate clearly.

On the sensible debate point , unless I missed it you didn`t answer my question on another thread as to what is your personal "trigger point" that would set you against the rebranding (dropping the bluebird , changing from Cardiff City to Cardiff Dragons etc) or don`t you have one?

At the meeting with Simon Lim , like most people there , you told him that CCFC fans would only accept a certain level of rebranding and no more. Have you changed your mind since or is there a point at which you would actively oppose any further rebranding?

Keith

Here it is copied and pasted, it's still up here and there are replies after it, we'll put it down to your age Keith.



To me it's unanswerable, it would be a bit like asking a father what would it take for you to disown or stop loving your child. is there a tipping point, what if they become a junkie, or pedophile or mass murderer, do you stop loving them, my view is you try and treasure the good times and enjoy them rather than never relax for thinking about what if.

That's the way I try and deal with life, and you for one know I've had much bigger serious things than a colour change to worry about, fed up of the what if what if scenario, for f**k sake what if you get knocked down by a bus tomorrow. Just live your lives and try and enjoy the good times when they are with you, because sometimes you don't appreciate what you got and you don't always get a second chance.

BigGwynram

Posts: 4916
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:17 pm

Thanks - I had missed it. As you say , probably down to on my part.

I do think you have slightly swerved away from directly answering my post though.

I thought I had answered it, I don't know what it would take and I don't want to worry about what if scenarios, too much passes by when you worry what if, were you expecting an answer like if he removes the bluebird, and puts the seats up 50% and makes everyone wear a bobble hat scenario, bit like a price list is it? once it get's to that level I'm off, personally can't bear the thought of not having the club in my life, so why worry about what it could do to spoil it, just all seems a bit silly.

I know you love the club and I fully understand your point about unconditional love for a child.But the analogy you use is continuing to support a child if say they bacame a junkie (fully agree with that). My question though was more based on how much tolerance you would have with the dealer supplying that junkie child(in our case owners making that "child" CCFC more reliant on the drugs he is supplying by the rebrand and the promises that go with it).

If your child was a junkie then he'd know a lot of dealers, but at the end of the day if he had no customers there'd be no dealers, don't think I would blame the dealer, to me that is a cop out, it is my son i would blame, but I would still love him and try to help him.

Are you saying that you would give support to the dealer as well no matter what he did to the child as long as the child still got his supply of drugs that no other dealer would give him?

See other answer, if there was only one dealer in the world and getting rid of him would solve the problem, then I'd solve it.

Thanks for those answers - much appreciated.

My own stance is that I am appreciative (and say so) when Vincent Tan does something good for the club , like the cash he has loaned it to date. But when he does something I see as wrong like the ongoing rebranding (and I honestly believe he wants to push this a lot further still in the very near future) , the treatment of those that disagree with him etc, then I believe this should always be challenged and questionned.

Do you agree that his actions should be left open to question or challenge where appropriate or do you believe that any such stance should be actively suppressed in case it upsets him? What I have found so upsetting is the intolerance (not just insults but leading to fear of physical violence) from both extremes of the rebranding argument so that a number of people feel uncomfortable with expressing their own views.Do you agree that that is unhealthy and should be condemned?

Your "price list" point is a very good one in that I think large numbers of fans have a point beyond which they won`t just unquestionably accept all that VT does with the club. What that point is is , quite rightly , up to the individual fan to decide for himself/herself.

I'm not wearing red as I honestly don't like it, Ive always worn blue, I haven't suddenly started supporting pool or manure, I surpport Cardiff City, the bluebirds. I don't want to wear a red top I will wear my blue bobble hat and scarf and my Cardiff City polo shirt with the old badge. I don't care what other people wear it's there decision but I for one won't be wearing red.... Blues my favourite colour in the whole world.... I loves it I do
Simples

I find it strange that we are told not to name call or abuse etc. but it seems that only applies if you call the so called anti rebranders anything, however it's open season on those that have stuck with the club it appears.
Perhaps it's one rule for one side and another rule for the others Mmmmmmmmmmmm

This was posted and is still on as the original [post by the twelth man and in my opinion is way over the mark,but there you go Mmmmmmmmmmm.


If you wore a red scarf tonight then you are a complete and utter plastic DISGRACE to Cardiff City, please f**k off and never come back. I don't want to debate anything with you, your acceptance of the rebrand has killed something that I once loved more than almost anything else.

Tonight was the final straw. I hope all the pro red supporters are very happy with the current state of Cardiff City.

WANKERS

I agree, these are the type of fans who need to consider where their loyalties. Tuesday night proved the vast majority of fans don't care anymore, sad but true.

On the sensible debate point , unless I missed it you didn`t answer my question on another thread as to what is your personal "trigger point" that would set you against the rebranding (dropping the bluebird , changing from Cardiff City to Cardiff Dragons etc) or don`t you have one?

At the meeting with Simon Lim , like most people there , you told him that CCFC fans would only accept a certain level of rebranding and no more. Have you changed your mind since or is there a point at which you would actively oppose any further rebranding?

Keith[/quote]

Here it is copied and pasted, it's still up here and there are replies after it, we'll put it down to your age Keith.



To me it's unanswerable, it would be a bit like asking a father what would it take for you to disown or stop loving your child. is there a tipping point, what if they become a junkie, or pedophile or mass murderer, do you stop loving them, my view is you try and treasure the good times and enjoy them rather than never relax for thinking about what if.

That's the way I try and deal with life, and you for one know I've had much bigger serious things than a colour change to worry about, fed up of the what if what if scenario, for f**k sake what if you get knocked down by a bus tomorrow. Just live your lives and try and enjoy the good times when they are with you, because sometimes you don't appreciate what you got and you don't always get a second chance.

BigGwynram

Posts: 4916
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:17 pm[/quote]


Thanks - I had missed it. As you say , probably down to on my part.

I do think you have slightly swerved away from directly answering my post though.

I thought I had answered it, I don't know what it would take and I don't want to worry about what if scenarios, too much passes by when you worry what if, were you expecting an answer like if he removes the bluebird, and puts the seats up 50% and makes everyone wear a bobble hat scenario, bit like a price list is it? once it get's to that level I'm off, personally can't bear the thought of not having the club in my life, so why worry about what it could do to spoil it, just all seems a bit silly.

I know you love the club and I fully understand your point about unconditional love for a child.But the analogy you use is continuing to support a child if say they bacame a junkie (fully agree with that). My question though was more based on how much tolerance you would have with the dealer supplying that junkie child(in our case owners making that "child" CCFC more reliant on the drugs he is supplying by the rebrand and the promises that go with it).

If your child was a junkie then he'd know a lot of dealers, but at the end of the day if he had no customers there'd be no dealers, don't think I would blame the dealer, to me that is a cop out, it is my son i would blame, but I would still love him and try to help him.

Are you saying that you would give support to the dealer as well no matter what he did to the child as long as the child still got his supply of drugs that no other dealer would give him?[/quote]

See other answer, if there was only one dealer in the world and getting rid of him would solve the problem, then I'd solve it.[/quote]


Thanks for those answers - much appreciated.

My own stance is that I am appreciative (and say so) when Vincent Tan does something good for the club , like the cash he has loaned it to date. But when he does something I see as wrong like the ongoing rebranding (and I honestly believe he wants to push this a lot further still in the very near future) , the treatment of those that disagree with him etc, then I believe this should always be challenged and questionned.

Do you agree that his actions should be left open to question or challenge where appropriate or do you believe that any such stance should be actively suppressed in case it upsets him? What I have found so upsetting is the intolerance (not just insults but leading to fear of physical violence) from both extremes of the rebranding argument so that a number of people feel uncomfortable with expressing their own views.Do you agree that that is unhealthy and should be condemned?

Wasn't it me as you said who told Simon lym exactly that. As for upsetting him, again I think I made that clear to the CEO that it will be one horrible place if he turns the majority against him and to bear that in mind. As for fear of physical violence, then that is the same for all of us, a bullet would hurt me as much as the next man, but if you believe that strongly in something then you give it 100% as far as I see it, as for violence, as there been any?
And as I have stated previously, If I had been against the rebrand, I would have put up a better more organise fight than we've seen and I would still be there causing problems, hope it never gets to that.

Your "price list" point is a very good one in that I think large numbers of fans have a point beyond which they won`t just unquestionably accept all that VT does with the club. What that point is is , quite rightly , up to the individual fan to decide for himself/herself.[/quote]

I wrote out a big response. But you know what it's really not worth the hassle.
Im not a blue or red I'm a "CARDIFF CITY" supporter.

When you back in rehab!!! the sooner the better sensible post are not you!!!

Gwyn, the problem is you come on here and the other board with your cleverly worded posts trying to insult those who are pro blue. Like I have already said, we are not dumb and you are showing disrespect to many older fans who've paid thousands into the club over the years to follow them up and down the country.

Whilst you may have your views and are now happy that the club is in red and you believe that is the right path, these posts are not needed at all. If we created 10 threads today calling you all sellouts as has occurred in the past you'd be up in arms about it as you and numerous red posters have done and rightly so. However, when you come out with stupid posts with little jibes towards those who want our club back in blue or would rather us go it alone without Tan and take the consequences as a result don't be surprised when you get flak back.

Spot on

I find it strange that we are told not to name call or abuse etc. but it seems that only applies if you call the so called anti rebranders anything, however it's open season on those that have stuck with the club it appears.
Perhaps it's one rule for one side and another rule for the others Mmmmmmmmmmmm

This was posted and is still on as the original [post by the twelth man and in my opinion is way over the mark,but there you go Mmmmmmmmmmm.


If you wore a red scarf tonight then you are a complete and utter plastic DISGRACE to Cardiff City, please f**k off and never come back. I don't want to debate anything with you, your acceptance of the rebrand has killed something that I once loved more than almost anything else.

Tonight was the final straw. I hope all the pro red supporters are very happy with the current state of Cardiff City.

WANKERS

maybe you will sod off now and leave the supporters to follow their team which is Cardiff City not a f*cking colour.

I find it strange that we are told not to name call or abuse etc. but it seems that only applies if you call the so called anti rebranders anything, however it's open season on those that have stuck with the club it appears.
Perhaps it's one rule for one side and another rule for the others Mmmmmmmmmmmm

This was posted and is still on as the original [post by the twelth man and in my opinion is way over the mark,but there you go Mmmmmmmmmmm.


If you wore a red scarf tonight then you are a complete and utter plastic DISGRACE to Cardiff City, please f**k off and never come back. I don't want to debate anything with you, your acceptance of the rebrand has killed something that I once loved more than almost anything else.

Tonight was the final straw. I hope all the pro red supporters are very happy with the current state of Cardiff City.

WANKERS

Let's all have a cry
It's only the internet.... Wanker

You all becoming a bunch of soppy killjoys. Stopping of name calling will ruin the messageboard for me.

I only log in if the missis is giving me loads and loads of jip after ive done a few quid in the bookies, to call the first person on here i disagree with a thick fat wanker.

I think the message board owners should put a stop to all the abusive posts, at the end of the day we are all Cardiff city fans, this red/blue is getting stupid, we should all be getting behind Malky and team not bickering like children. I am more concerned about us beating wolves, seems a few people just like to stir up trouble .

Some moderators are clearly biased in their opinions . Very difficult to do their job correctly with their blue tinted glasses.

KL DRAGONS - RED AND WHITE


CARDIFF CITY AFC (BLUE BIRDS) BLUE WHITE AND YELLOW


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But for the good of the club chance of making the Prem once again - the Hard work of players manager and all staff

will watch city no matter what - just all this rebrand has caused lots of mixed reactions - but saying that CCS was 90 % full last tuesday with fans wearing the scarfs from young to the elderly

lets all now do the decent thing and back Malky and the players - thats the most important thing as gwyn said in earlier post we dont always get second chances .....

Blue till the day I die always no matter what colour we are that no one can change !

Some moderators are clearly biased in their opinions . Very difficult to do their job correctly with their blue tinted glasses.

Bit like Gwyn when he was moderating with his red specs on.

Some moderators are clearly biased in their opinions . Very difficult to do their job correctly with their blue tinted glasses.

Dicey you are correct pal!! Very one sided and all anti red and anti vt threads are made stickies! I've noticed this for a while!!

Just my opinion!

Some moderators are clearly biased in their opinions . Very difficult to do their job correctly with their blue tinted glasses.

Bit like Gwyn when he was moderating with his red specs on.

That's probably why he got his moderating duties taken off him!! On a serious noteI think he should be reinstated as a mod. Add a bit of balance to the board!!