Has the RED killed it?

Seriously though MellonHead, if you had stated this post, BEFORE you created a post suggesting we create a big banner saying "HAPPY BIRTHDAY VINCENT TAN" then you may of had a bit more credibility.


Just My Opinion Though......

Ah so you haven't studied the art of irony then?

You did See the banner I suggested right?

I mastered irony mate... But the banner wasn't really ironic or funny.
Most people don't read every topic they will often look at the title and author then choose to read or not.
For those who don't read it will only see that you have started two threads, 1 saying we should get a banner for tans Bday, the other saying he has destroyed our club.

Hypothetically speaking,
Had Tan not Invested where would we be now?

More fool them (you) for just reading headings then

But to answer your question, if tan hadn't loaned us money then we would still be in Cardiff, playing in blue with our normal badge with our dignity and identity in tact with an awful less debt.

Seriously though MellonHead, if you had stated this post, BEFORE you created a post suggesting we create a big banner saying "HAPPY BIRTHDAY VINCENT TAN" then you may of had a bit more credibility.


Just My Opinion Though......

Ah so you haven't studied the art of irony then?

You did See the banner I suggested right?

I mastered irony mate... But the banner wasn't really ironic or funny.
Most people don't read every topic they will often look at the title and author then choose to read or not.
For those who don't read it will only see that you have started two threads, 1 saying we should get a banner for tans Bday, the other saying he has destroyed our club.

Hypothetically speaking,
Had Tan not Invested where would we be now?

More fool them (you) for just reading headings then

But to answer your question, if tan hadn't loaned us money then we would still be in Cardiff, playing in blue with our normal badge with our dignity and identity in tact with an awful less debt.

Identity intact eh?

You can give us proof that the Club would not have gone to the wall and had to reform
as Cardiff United or some such nonsense?... hence losing ALL our past history.

Seriously though MellonHead, if you had stated this post, BEFORE you created a post suggesting we create a big banner saying "HAPPY BIRTHDAY VINCENT TAN" then you may of had a bit more credibility.


Just My Opinion Though......

Ah so you haven't studied the art of irony then?

You did See the banner I suggested right?

I mastered irony mate... But the banner wasn't really ironic or funny.
Most people don't read every topic they will often look at the title and author then choose to read or not.
For those who don't read it will only see that you have started two threads, 1 saying we should get a banner for tans Bday, the other saying he has destroyed our club.

Hypothetically speaking,
Had Tan not Invested where would we be now?

More fool them (you) for just reading headings then

But to answer your question, if tan hadn't loaned us money then we would still be in Cardiff, playing in blue with our normal badge with our dignity and identity in tact with an awful less debt.

Identity intact eh?

You can give us proof that the Club would not have gone to the wall and had to reform
as Cardiff United or some such nonsense?... hence losing ALL our past history.

Can you give us proof of the contrary?

Quite a sad post, Saint Lemmon, and I'm not convinced you are a Cardiff City supporter

The RED (as you call it) has soothed the ego of the man who put many more £millions into saving and advancing our beloved club and unfortunately it HAS to be seen as a SMALL price to pay in comparison to SOME of the alternatives, e.g. possible 'folding' of our club or a rebirth like Rangers (or hopefully for them, Pompey) where they come back fro the ashes and are (whatever the PRETEND to be) NEW CLUBS

I've heard SOME (not many DID in reality) say on here that they would 'walk away' IF the Red kit came to fruition. Well, IT'S HERE and not many lived up to their words (although about 70 stuck to their guns; A LOT FOR PERSONAL REASONS OTHER THAN THE RED/BLUE ISSUE, TRUST ME ) and it's not likely to happen now we are looking good for promotion, is it?

This is a well worn topic now and the Red is here (for VT's tenure at least) so reluctantly accept it and, if you ARE a Cardiff fan, realise (like most have) that is is STILL the Cardiff City FC we know and love, it is STILL the players and management that have evolved in recent years to take us to the brink of the Premiership and it is NOT some PHOENIX that has risen through the ashes like Rangers, Pompey and (probably worse of all) Milton Keynes Dons If THAT was to happen even I would walk away after decades of support

Noithing you can do about it(except stir it up and whinge, of course ) UNLESS YOU HAVE A SPARE £100 MILLION HANGING AROUND THE HOUSE ) and I rather think there are more important things to concentrate on at the moment; LIKE BEING POSITIVE AND CHEERING ON THE MANAGER AND PLAYERS TO THE PREMIERSHIP!!

You, sir, are the definition of a "sell-out"

Reading some interesting posts lately that this seasons success doesn't feel the same as success with the blue shirt. I guess it's a bit like cheating on championship manager, cool to experience but not really the same satisfaction. A lot of the excitement and emotional connection to the club seems to have ebbed away in a lot of people. Give Peterborough £100 million and they could have done exactly the same.

I think it's a shame that Tan has stolen the joy of a team getting to the Prem after such a long wait from a lot of genuine fans, as it will never feel the same if it happens again in the future. The joy of promotion that the club has earned with its own identity and colours is not even imaginable.

To see this Malaysian, red shell of a club getting what the blue Cardiff have always dreamed of is a little sad IMO.

Thinking Championship manager is "cool" is a little sad. Also regarding getting promotion (if it should happen this season), then I suggest you get your Jack ass down the Stadium to witness real passion and love for a Club should it happen.

But only if promoted?

Coz right now every week there's a new thread regarding he CCS being like a morgue with suggestions of songs before the match to pump up the crowd give over.

Ye, you have already asked me that. I asked if you could prove the contrary...

I'm still waiting.



Alan whitely - it was never red or dead

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... 9837&rid=0

taffy apple deleted his message??

PTBG

Ye, you have already asked me that. I asked if you could prove the contrary...

I'm still waiting.



Alan whitely - it was never red or dead

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... 9837&rid=0

What did you think Whitely was going to say "if the fans kicked off, Tan was going to leave"
you f*cking numbskull.

You cant PROVE anything. Suppositions and adversarial comments. Children can do
that. I dont debate with you because if I say its monday you'll say its Tuesday.

you say without Tan we'd still be in blue, still have our history, still have our identity.

Stop using sound bites... tell everyone who the mystery saviour was going to be if it wasnt Tan??

There most likely wouldnt have been a club.

:o taffy apple deleted his message??

Nope. was asking to get you banned. give you something to do thinking up
identity number 20.

people comparing the rebrand of our club to cheating on a game... im not sure if you are serious...

its more like someone smashing your car to bits and slashing your tyres - you can still make the journey but its going to be a shit drive.

NFQAD.

Im sure half these numbskulls have been watching too much scooby doo.

Pull Tans head off its Huw Jenkins underneath.

"I would have got away with it if it wasnt for you pesky Blues"

Why people cannot embrace stability and a winning team I do not know.

Ye, you have already asked me that. I asked if you could prove the contrary...

I'm still waiting.



Alan whitely - it was never red or dead

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... 9837&rid=0

What did you think Whitely was going to say "if the fans kicked off, Tan was going to leave"
you f*cking numbskull.

You cant PROVE anything. Suppositions and adversarial comments. Children can do
that. I dont debate with you because if I say its monday you'll say its Tuesday.

you say without Tan we'd still be in blue, still have our history, still have our identity.

Stop using sound bites... tell everyone who the mystery saviour was going to be if it wasnt Tan??

There most likely wouldnt have been a club.

Asking for a ban, what are you 12 years old

No soundbites from me, just pure text based on executives words, common sense and business accumen. Like I've said, have you got any proof to the contrary?

It 100% does not feel the same for me and I have waited 45 years to see us get to the big league, it could and should be feeling brilliant but I am afraid that has been taken away from the older supporter

It 100% does not feel the same for me and I have waited 45 years to see us get to the big league, it could and should be feeling brilliant but I am afraid that has been taken away from the older supporter

Most of the real supporters feel the same. But are outnumbered big time by the ones that came when Sam then tan started flashing the cash.

The fact most chose being top of the second tier above Cardiffs blue and bluebird is amazing, even more amazing is the fact they try to defend it and even more amazing that they Now fully support it with 15,000 red home shirts sold

Imagine Liverpools owners changing their colour to blue. It doesn't even bear thinking about, can you imagine Anfield then full of Liverpool supporters wearing blue - it's the most cringable situation in recent football history. All respect, all pride all credibility and dignity is firmly gone in the footballing community.

I agree, it's disgraceful and pure vandalism of our one proud heritage

I think it's sad any group of supporters feel they have the right to stand by and watch a club that has stood proudly for over 100 years that fathers grandfathers and great grandfathers have handed down over the decades and see it totally defaced for the promise of seeing Wayne Rooney.

Completely and utterly embarrassing and total disrespect for those that have gone before looking after the club and entrusting it to the next generation.

It's essentially a 100 year old family heirloom that has been handed down from father to son for decades until one person decides to flog it to a pawn shop for a weekend in Blackpool on the piss.

Quite a sad post, Saint Lemmon, and I'm not convinced you are a Cardiff City supporter

The RED (as you call it) has soothed the ego of the man who put many more £millions into saving and advancing our beloved club and unfortunately it HAS to be seen as a SMALL price to pay in comparison to SOME of the alternatives, e.g. possible 'folding' of our club or a rebirth like Rangers (or hopefully for them, Pompey) where they come back fro the ashes and are (whatever the PRETEND to be) NEW CLUBS

I've heard SOME (not many DID in reality) say on here that they would 'walk away' IF the Red kit came to fruition. Well, IT'S HERE and not many lived up to their words (although about 70 stuck to their guns; A LOT FOR PERSONAL REASONS OTHER THAN THE RED/BLUE ISSUE, TRUST ME ) and it's not likely to happen now we are looking good for promotion, is it?

This is a well worn topic now and the Red is here (for VT's tenure at least) so reluctantly accept it and, if you ARE a Cardiff fan, realise (like most have) that is is STILL the Cardiff City FC we know and love, it is STILL the players and management that have evolved in recent years to take us to the brink of the Premiership and it is NOT some PHOENIX that has risen through the ashes like Rangers, Pompey and (probably worse of all) Milton Keynes Dons If THAT was to happen even I would walk away after decades of support

Noithing you can do about it(except stir it up and whinge, of course ) UNLESS YOU HAVE A SPARE £100 MILLION HANGING AROUND THE HOUSE ) and I rather think there are more important things to concentrate on at the moment; LIKE BEING POSITIVE AND CHEERING ON THE MANAGER AND PLAYERS TO THE PREMIERSHIP!!

You, sir, are the definition of a "sell-out"

Sell out? Explain, please

Quite rich coming from one who cannot even spell his/her name right (cadiff) FFS

I think it's sad any group of supporters feel they have the right to stand by and watch a club that has stood proudly for over 100 years that fathers grandfathers and great grandfathers have handed down over the decades and see it totally defaced for the promise of seeing Wayne Rooney.

Completely and utterly embarrassing and total disrespect for those that have gone before looking after the club and entrusting it to the next generation.

It's essentially a 100 year old family heirloom that has been handed down from father to son for decades until one person decides to flog it to a pawn shop for a weekend in Blackpool on the piss.

What? Have things NEVER changed before? I don't think so. THIS change is just a little more radical than others but it doesn't mean it's not stil Cardiff City FC

You obviously have an anti-Cardiff City agenda, which is your perogative. Luckily, 25000+ this weekend will PROVE that in essence you are wrong to spout that the majority of fans are anti-red to the point of distraction

What really matters is that we have a team that performs on the pitch and we've certainly got that these days

Not sure what would make you plonkers happy If it wasn't the Red issue it would be something else!

Where have I said the majority are against it? Surely that's the exact opposite of my point. I've acknowledged the majority are all for it. But the majority have come on board since Sam and tan have flashed their cash. The average attendance was around 4000 for a good decade before they came along, and since then success has been more important than the club.

I say again, can you imagine the uproar if the american owners tried to change liverpools red kit to a Stars and Stripes home kit with USA spralled across it and then getting rid of the liver bird and replacing it with the Statue of Liberty... They would be run out of town and protested against every game..... Cardiff on the other hand have turned out in their numbers to buy the new red kit - it's an embarrassment.

I think it's sad any group of supporters feel they have the right to stand by and watch a club that has stood proudly for over 100 years that fathers grandfathers and great grandfathers have handed down over the decades and see it totally defaced for the promise of seeing Wayne Rooney.

Completely and utterly embarrassing and total disrespect for those that have gone before looking after the club and entrusting it to the next generation.

It's essentially a 100 year old family heirloom that has been handed down from father to son for decades until one person decides to flog it to a pawn shop for a weekend in Blackpool on the piss.

Exactly. He's ugly as f**k.

Ye, you have already asked me that. I asked if you could prove the contrary...

I'm still waiting.



Alan whitely - it was never red or dead

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... 9837&rid=0

What did you think Whitely was going to say "if the fans kicked off, Tan was going to leave"
you f*cking numbskull.

You cant PROVE anything. Suppositions and adversarial comments. Children can do
that. I dont debate with you because if I say its monday you'll say its Tuesday.

you say without Tan we'd still be in blue, still have our history, still have our identity.

Stop using sound bites... tell everyone who the mystery saviour was going to be if it wasnt Tan??

There most likely wouldnt have been a club.

Asking for a ban, what are you 12 years old

No soundbites from me, just pure text based on executives words, common sense and business accumen. Like I've said, have you got any proof to the contrary?

Business acumen?

when a company is threatened with a winding up order and has no money to clear
the outstanding debt to the HMRC and a raft of other debts... what usually happens??

If the receivers are called in, and end up having to liquidate Cardiff City AFC... then
THAT company name is gone, along with its registered company number.

Cardiff City AFC, along with its FA CUP win, Runners up twice, League Div 1 runners up,
League Cup finalists, European Cup Winners Cup Semi-Finalists.... all THAT history would
have gone for good, along with the very name.

Now tell me again, who was waiting in the wings with money to buy Cardiff City AFC

Ye, you have already asked me that. I asked if you could prove the contrary...

I'm still waiting.



Alan whitely - it was never red or dead

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... 9837&rid=0

What did you think Whitely was going to say "if the fans kicked off, Tan was going to leave"
you f*cking numbskull.

You cant PROVE anything. Suppositions and adversarial comments. Children can do
that. I dont debate with you because if I say its monday you'll say its Tuesday.

you say without Tan we'd still be in blue, still have our history, still have our identity.

Stop using sound bites... tell everyone who the mystery saviour was going to be if it wasnt Tan??

There most likely wouldnt have been a club.

Asking for a ban, what are you 12 years old

No soundbites from me, just pure text based on executives words, common sense and business accumen. Like I've said, have you got any proof to the contrary?

Business acumen?

when a company is threatened with a winding up order and has no money to clear
the outstanding debt to the HMRC and a raft of other debts... what usually happens??

If the receivers are called in, and end up having to liquidate Cardiff City AFC... then
THAT company name is gone, along with its registered company number.

Cardiff City AFC, along with its FA CUP win, Runners up twice, League Div 1 runners up,
League Cup finalists, European Cup Winners Cup Semi-Finalists.... all THAT history would
have gone for good, along with the very name.

Now tell me again, who was waiting in the wings with money to buy Cardiff City AFC

Hi again. Tan was more than happy to lend money to cover what owed to HRMC. When that was staved off several things could have been done to get out of the hole. At the time I think the debt stood at around £42 million if memory serves, with £26m of that owed to Sam, which we now know is only £10m in reality - so £26m.

That was prime time to make player sales, renegotiate contracts sign sensibly and try to operate in the black or at break even. But instead went back to the well, the well everyone knew couldn't be paid back once taken, not once but repeatedly. Expenditure rocketed and the financial recklessness rocketed at a rate never previously seen.

If the safe option was taken the club would never had to whore it's identity, but going back to the well each time slowly lowered the proverbial pants much by inch until prime for the taking. The reason for this, pure and simple - fan greed with an u healthy need for premiership foot all first inflicted by Sam Hammam and the disease is still prevalent to is day.

Cardiff city's blueprint on how to achieve success is continuously flawed in the extreme. When asked who should own the club, it is usually a name of who can lend the club the most money, when asked what happens when tan leaves, it's met with an even richer businessman. When fans opposed the rebrand they were met with, have you got a spare £100m then? Incredible really.

The role of a football chairman is not to lend the club money until they are crippled. It is to act as treasurer for what the club earns. The fact Huw Jenkins is regularly a figure of amusement on this forum because he isn't as rich as Tan bemuses me. It doesn't matter if he has £1 or a trillion he is treasurer of what the club earns and decides the best way for it to be spent.

Success, or at least the desire for it has become a disease. Sam promised the world when Cardiff had nothing and since then it has been the fans and boards focus, make the dream a reality at all costs - even if it costs the club in the long run. Take a step back and look what has happened. Cardiff now no longer are blue, the bluebird is almost a distant memory and currently a mere irritation tot the bold dragon now meekly standing on the 'badge', Malaysia is now spralled across the shirt and the fans now proudly wear red at home in a lifeless bowl, a far cry from the blue passion of ninian park.

We are now in an era where mid table championship status is seen as a failure and it would be preferred to have promotion even if it probably means the death of the club if relegated, which most would accept is the most likely outcome once promoted. Everyone has spunked away Cardiffs history and future for what is likely to be one season on the premiership, a club that has stood proudly after being handed down from generation to generation of passionate blues..... Did it really mean that much to you?

I'm truly astounded. And genuinely don't think this behaviour and willingness to change the face of the club to whatever one man wants wouldn't be seen in any other club in the world. And I put that down to the new breed of fan that Sam attracted that now make the majority of the CCS.

Ye, you have already asked me that. I asked if you could prove the contrary...

I'm still waiting.



Alan whitely - it was never red or dead

http://www.ccmb.co.uk/fudforum/index.ph ... 9837&rid=0

What did you think Whitely was going to say "if the fans kicked off, Tan was going to leave"
you f*cking numbskull.

You cant PROVE anything. Suppositions and adversarial comments. Children can do
that. I dont debate with you because if I say its monday you'll say its Tuesday.

you say without Tan we'd still be in blue, still have our history, still have our identity.

Stop using sound bites... tell everyone who the mystery saviour was going to be if it wasnt Tan??

There most likely wouldnt have been a club.

Asking for a ban, what are you 12 years old

No soundbites from me, just pure text based on executives words, common sense and business accumen. Like I've said, have you got any proof to the contrary?

Business acumen?

when a company is threatened with a winding up order and has no money to clear
the outstanding debt to the HMRC and a raft of other debts... what usually happens??

If the receivers are called in, and end up having to liquidate Cardiff City AFC... then
THAT company name is gone, along with its registered company number.

Cardiff City AFC, along with its FA CUP win, Runners up twice, League Div 1 runners up,
League Cup finalists, European Cup Winners Cup Semi-Finalists.... all THAT history would
have gone for good, along with the very name.

Now tell me again, who was waiting in the wings with money to buy Cardiff City AFC

Hi again. Tan was more than happy to lend money to cover what owed to HRMC. When that was staved off several things could have been done to get out of the hole. At the time I think the debt stood at around £42 million if memory serves, with £26m of that owed to Sam, which we now know is only £10m in reality - so £26m.

That was prime time to make player sales, renegotiate contracts sign sensibly and try to operate in the black or at break even. But instead went back to the well, the well everyone knew couldn't be paid back once taken, not once but repeatedly. Expenditure rocketed and the financial recklessness rocketed at a rate never previously seen.

If the safe option was taken the club would never had to whore it's identity, but going back to the well each time slowly lowered the proverbial pants much by inch until prime for the taking. The reason for this, pure and simple - fan greed with an u healthy need for premiership foot all first inflicted by Sam Hammam and the disease is still prevalent to is day.

Had Tan not come here, there is NO evidence to suggest Cardiff City would have survived (show me some)
So our identity "Cardiff City AFC - FA Cup Winners 1927" would most likely have been gone for good. We
have played in different colours before, we have not always had a Bluebird on the badge, but the name and
our "history" was known throughout Europe.

If Tan had walked in from Day 1 and said "I want red shirts"... We would have been wearing red shirts!!

Now you are analysing and criticising the whole structure he has put in place? Three years after he came
on the scene, after we were literally at deaths door - We are on the brink of Premiership Football. Had
he not come in... Cardiff United might well have been playing in The League of Wales right now.

Thats not far-fetched.

Had Tan not come here, there is NO evidence to suggest Cardiff City would have survived (show me some)
So our identity "Cardiff City AFC - FA Cup Winners 1927" would most likely have been gone for good. We
have played in different colours before, we have not always had a Bluebird on the badge, but the name and
our "history" was known throughout Europe.

If Tan had walked in from Day 1 and said "I want red shirts"... We would have been wearing red shirts!!

Now you are analysing and criticising the whole structure he has put in place? Three years after he came
on the scene, after we were literally at deaths door - We are on the brink of Premiership Football. Had
he not come in... Cardiff United might well have been playing in The League of Wales right now.

Thats not far-fetched.

There is also no evidence to suggest Cardiff wouldn't have survived. The fact is Tan would have lent us the money to cover the winding up order Nd we could have used assets in terms of land and players to make a massive dent in the debt of the club, but progression in the field far outweighs progression off it in many people's eyes, including, (alarmingly) - the board.

Premier league has nothing to do with anything. Don't be fooled into thinking that's progression, it's not. Loan Bristol city £100m and allow them to get into that much debt and they would also be in the same position, in fact any team in the league - it's not progression - it's where any team should be if they borrowed that amount. That debt doesn't disappear once got into the premiership and upon relegation the full force of the situation hits home.

The is a lot of supposition in your post without any evidence what so ever. There was no evidence to suggest Cardiff would have folded, none.

Although disagree regarding Cardiffs history known throughout Europe. Important to the fans of the club, nobody else. It's this delusion of grandeur that is typifying the disease Hammam has inflicted. Can you name when notts county won the FA cup? I assume not... Which goes for football fans across Europe too. The same applies to Cardiff.

I feel sorry for people that think that way.

For me it will be about my home city getting to the top flight and I cannot wait

Totally agree, percentage wise it's a very small amount of people who feel this way, if anything it's the same guys on here bringing the subject up time and time again, banging on making most people on here thinking its a majority of City fans train of thought.

I can't wait to see Cardiff City in the Premiership be it Pink, Brown, Yellow or RED !

Get over it

Where have I said the majority are against it? Surely that's the exact opposite of my point. I've acknowledged the majority are all for it. But the majority have come on board since Sam and tan have flashed their cash. The average attendance was around 4000 for a good decade before they came along, and since then success has been more important than the club.

I say again, can you imagine the uproar if the american owners tried to change liverpools red kit to a Stars and Stripes home kit with USA spralled across it and then getting rid of the liver bird and replacing it with the Statue of Liberty... They would be run out of town and protested against every game..... Cardiff on the other hand have turned out in their numbers to buy the new red kit - it's an embarrassment.

Another DAFT response (people 'on board only since Sam and Tan)

Better performances = Bigger crowds

People won't (in general) pay to watch dross

Nature of the beast (and same in theatres, cinemas et al)

I feel sorry for people that think that way.

For me it will be about my home city getting to the top flight and I cannot wait

Totally agree, percentage wise it's a very small amount of people who feel this way, if anything it's the same guys on here bringing the subject up time and time again, banging on making most people on here thinking its a majority of City fans train of thought.

I can't wait to see Cardiff City in the Premiership be it Pink, Brown, Yellow or RED !

Get over it

Doesn't matter what percentage of people think that way. It is a fact that the vast majority of fans at the stadium didnt even bother turning up when the club was in the lower league. The average attendance as little as 1998 was 4000. So 20,000 of those have decided to come as things started to improve on the pitch,

I have absolutely no surprise at all the the majority now do anything for more perceived success on the pitch, doesn't mean it's the correct ideology. It's the ideology of a group of people who have large jumper on the bandwagon in the last 7 years or so. The club has stood for well over 100.....