I know this is going to be contentious. I know it will stir

A sell out in my opinion. When it all collapses and we get relegated from the prem , I hope he can sit down and think was it all worth it stripping the club colour, badge, identity, for.....the glory of the prem.

Evo, how can you call him a sell out when you still go to the matches yourself?

Sunbuteo man was one of the main noises behind KCB, set up a web site that had a total of ten members and collapsed, then tried to set about setting up and starting a Rival team for the supporters of blue shirts in opposition to Cardiff City, and when it all fell on it's face he crawls back and pays his money every week, and he calls other people who have stuck to their principles sell out, you couldn't make it up.

off the mark there Gwyn, As per my post on Sept 21 10.25 in response to a question from you : "Hiya Gwyn, well a couple of points here in regards that it was a chap from London Scott I think his name is who set up the "official" kcb website and he was the chap at the Muni club chairing the meeting. I think his website/campaign is still there. Dazzy T then created an unoffical KCB forum for like minded fans which never really took off had around 70 members but only around 5 members posting so I think it is safe to say that is the end of that"

As for setting up a rival team for bluebird fans not started by myself either so wrong there again Gwyn. I havent crawled away anywhere just stated been down several times this season.

So it wasn't you on the forum appealing to people to protest and offering to help set up a rival team, must be the other subuteoman then

Can't be bothered reading an article by Paul Abbandonato. It's not as if he's Brian Glanville, is it?

A sell out in my opinion. When it all collapses and we get relegated from the prem , I hope he can sit down and think was it all worth it stripping the club colour, badge, identity, for.....the glory of the prem.

Evo, how can you call him a sell out when you still go to the matches yourself?

Sunbuteo man was one of the main noises behind KCB, set up a web site that had a total of ten members and collapsed, then tried to set about setting up and starting a Rival team for the supporters of blue shirts in opposition to Cardiff City, and when it all fell on it's face he crawls back and pays his money every week, and he calls other people who have stuck to their principles sell out, you couldn't make it up.

Well lets just welcome him (and all the others back). I don't like the red, but still go, must be an addiction.

All this name calling is bad for the fans and atmosphere. Treat the returning fans as prodigal sons, as I would prefer them than the newbies just coming because we are doing well.

couldn't agree with you more, but i think you'll find most of the name calling is aimed at the fans who stayed loyal to the club, such as plastics, arse lickers, soul sellers, sell outs, glory hunters, premier chasers, etc etc, what are people calling those against the rebrand the, because i'm sure there must be a few names out there, but i haven't seen many banded about.

My view is the same now as it was then, I genuinely feel sorry for those hurting, but others who have stirred and abused and tried to destroy our club, have dug their own holes. Yes those who were against it and have had time to reflect, then glad to welcome you and totally understand, but how do you welcome or trust someone who has tried to case harm, and then failed and then wants to come back, have they no principles.

No-one wants us playing in Red but inexchange for £100m+ and Premiership football its acceptable.

Whilst others can't get their heads around not playing in Blue, I personally can't get my head around why everyone doesn't want what is best for the club in terms of progressing to the next level.

After all no-one supports a team because they want them to fail, or do they?

Tony, where is the advantage of playing in red?

One mans vision in a world that is alienated from us. Yes want to see us known within other cultures but its got to be blue with the bluebird and our pick and shoval because that is Cardiff City. The premiership will be nice no doubt but what happens when that novalty wears off and we are grossed in red with a badge of a bowl of rice and chopsticks singing 9 million bycycles in Beijeng. That is the way it is going and you know that saying "tolerate this and your children will be next".

couldn't agree with you more, but i think you'll find most of the name calling is aimed at the fans who stayed loyal to the club, such as plastics, arse lickers, soul sellers, sell outs, glory hunters, premier chasers, etc etc, what are people calling those against the rebrand the, because i'm sure there must be a few names out there, but i haven't seen many banded about.

My view is the same now as it was then, I genuinely feel sorry for those hurting, but others who have stirred and abused and tried to destroy our club, have dug their own holes. Yes those who were against it and have had time to reflect, then glad to welcome you and totally understand, but how do you welcome or trust someone who has tried to case harm, and then failed and then wants to come back, have they no principles.

TBH Gwyn those who want the Blue Kit back would also claim they have stayed loyal to the club. If someone has had a change of heart then I simply don't care what they have said in the past. I like being called a sell-out and if it is directed at me I would happily reply "guilty as charged" and carry on wanting what is best (in my view) for the club.

What we got to get away from is this constant battle over who has the moral high ground. So what if a poster set up a Sunday league team in opposition to a Tan owned CCFC or a failed website. In the grand scheme of things it is nothing.

No-one wants us playing in Red but inexchange for £100m+ and Premiership football its acceptable.

Whilst others can't get their heads around not playing in Blue, I personally can't get my head around why everyone doesn't want what is best for the club in terms of progressing to the next level.

After all no-one supports a team because they want them to fail, or do they?

Tony, where is the advantage of playing in red?

One mans vision in a world that is alienated from us. Yes want to see us known within other cultures but its got to be blue with the bluebird and our pick and shoval because that is Cardiff City. The premiership will be nice no doubt but what happens when that novalty wears off and we are grossed in red with a badge of a bowl of rice and chopsticks singing 9 million bycycles in Beijeng. That is the way it is going and you know that saying "tolerate this and your children will be next".

Ian I have absolutely now idea what advantage playing in red gives us apart from £100+ and at present a 10 point lead at the top of the Championship.

I don't think the novalty of playing in the Premiership ever wears off TBH. If Tan wants to sell red shirts with a badge of bowl rice and chopsticks in China that's his choice providing we get a cut to sustain our top flight status. Our choice is not to buy that stuff and instead get blue scarfs and bluebird badges from billy the badge.

We sing Cardiff songs and continue like we always have that is part of the Far East attraction to European Football Clubs.

It's just an average, at best, journo spilling out the party line for VT. Thomson Hse are devoid of intelligent, original thought sadly. Some months ago I was in conversation with certain sports' writers at the SWE about an article I had written against the rebranding. I was told in no uncertain terms that the paper would never print it because it was not a Red is Best one.

Papers, political parties, governments or football clubs who stifle people who have a differing view, whether in North Korea or Cardiff are weak in the extreme and convey that their stance cannot be defended in debate.

I am a BLUE and always will be. Promotion and huge amounts spent in the transfer market will not change that. Principles cannot be bought.

StT.

No-one wants us playing in Red but inexchange for £100m+ and Premiership football its acceptable.

Whilst others can't get their heads around not playing in Blue, I personally can't get my head around why everyone doesn't want what is best for the club in terms of progressing to the next level.

After all no-one supports a team because they want them to fail, or do they?

Tony, where is the advantage of playing in red?

One mans vision in a world that is alienated from us. Yes want to see us known within other cultures but its got to be blue with the bluebird and our pick and shoval because that is Cardiff City. The premiership will be nice no doubt but what happens when that novalty wears off and we are grossed in red with a badge of a bowl of rice and chopsticks singing 9 million bycycles in Beijeng. That is the way it is going and you know that saying "tolerate this and your children will be next".

Ian I have absolutely now idea what advantage playing in red gives us apart from £100+ and at present a 10 point lead at the top of the Championship.

I don't think the novalty of playing in the Premiership ever wears off TBH. If Tan wants to sell red shirts with a badge of bowl rice and chopsticks in China that's his choice providing we get a cut to sustain our top flight status. Our choice is not to buy that stuff and instead get blue scarfs and bluebird badges from billy the badge.

We sing Cardiff songs and continue like we always have that is part of the Far East attraction to European Football Clubs.

Indeed you are right regarding Billy the badge. Infact it was the only avenue open to us to show our disapproval and that was by flushing all 4 stands with the colour blue. We failed bigtime there.

I'll tell you the advantage about wearing red, absolutley no advantage what so ever. If we were wearing blue we still would be 10 points clear. Tan NEEDS premier football as much as we want it.

It's just an average, at best, journo spilling out the party line for VT. Thomson Hse are devoid of intelligent, original thought sadly. Some months ago I was in conversation with certain sports' writers at the SWE about an article I had written against the rebranding. I was told in no uncertain terms that the paper would never print it because it was not a Red is Best one.

Papers, political parties, governments or football clubs who stifle people who have a differing view, whether in North Korea or Cardiff are weak in the extreme and convey that their stance cannot be defended in debate.

I am a BLUE and always will be. Promotion and huge amounts spent in the transfer market will not change that. Principles cannot be bought.

StT.

As a matter of interest why would the staff of Thompson House be so in favour of Vincent Tan to the point of imposing Soviet style censorship?

TBH mate there are several different opinions on this matter and just because others give their's it doesn't mean you can't. I have read anti-rebrand articles in both the WM and SWE, it might have been that your article was just not good enough.

I beg to differ on your last statement VT has bought the principle of CCFC and changed into his own vision. If you are saying your principles can't be bought then fair enough, but as a matter of interest what were you offerred?

Indeed you are right regarding Billy the badge. Infact it was the only avenue open to us to show our disapproval and that was by flushing all 4 stands with the colour blue. We failed bigtime there.

I'll tell you the advantage about wearing red, absolutley no advantage what so ever. If we were wearing blue we still would be 10 points clear. Tan NEEDS premier football as much as we want it.

Actually I'm in favour of the rebrand but I won't buy merchandise and only were blue to games. I'm a bit of a contridiction really but it is how I believe all Wales/UK Cardiff fans should deal with it.

If we had the exact same players and played in Blue then of course you are right we would be 10 points clear at the top of the Championship. Unfortunatley we know that to get those players we had to play in Red.

It is a sad fact and yes I'm blatently using VT's millions to see my club into the Premiership. But I am far more comfortable with the present situation than the one under Ridsdale where the club played in Blue but was bleeding to death while he picked the bones dry.

Anyone who has the attitude of "as long we get to the Premier League I don't care" is a complete sell out. End of.

Indeed you are right regarding Billy the badge. Infact it was the only avenue open to us to show our disapproval and that was by flushing all 4 stands with the colour blue. We failed bigtime there.

I'll tell you the advantage about wearing red, absolutley no advantage what so ever. If we were wearing blue we still would be 10 points clear. Tan NEEDS premier football as much as we want it.

Actually I'm in favour of the rebrand but I won't buy merchandise and only were blue to games. I'm a bit of a contridiction really but it is how I believe all Wales/UK Cardiff fans should deal with it.

If we had the exact same players and played in Blue then of course you are right we would be 10 points clear at the top of the Championship. Unfortunatley we know that to get those players we had to play in Red.

It is a sad fact and yes I'm blatently using VT's millions to see my club into the Premiership. But I am far more comfortable with the present situation than the one under Ridsdale where the club played in Blue but was bleeding to death while he picked the bones dry.

You and many others believed that. I would have called his bluff. As I said above he NEEDS premier football.

Storm in a tea-cup that will eventually go away.

A sell out in my opinion. When it all collapses and we get relegated from the prem , I hope he can sit down and think was it all worth it stripping the club colour, badge, identity, for.....the glory of the prem.

Evo, how can you call him a sell out when you still go to the matches yourself?

Sunbuteo man was one of the main noises behind KCB, set up a web site that had a total of ten members and collapsed, then tried to set about setting up and starting a Rival team for the supporters of blue shirts in opposition to Cardiff City, and when it all fell on it's face he crawls back and pays his money every week, and he calls other people who have stuck to their principles sell out, you couldn't make it up.

Well lets just welcome him (and all the others back). I don't like the red, but still go, must be an addiction.

All this name calling is bad for the fans and atmosphere. Treat the returning fans as prodigal sons, as I would prefer them than the newbies just coming because we are doing well.

couldn't agree with you more, but i think you'll find most of the name calling is aimed at the fans who stayed loyal to the club, such as plastics, arse lickers, soul sellers, sell outs, glory hunters, premier chasers, etc etc, what are people calling those against the rebrand the, because i'm sure there must be a few names out there, but i haven't seen many banded about.

My view is the same now as it was then, I genuinely feel sorry for those hurting, but others who have stirred and abused and tried to destroy our club, have dug their own holes. Yes those who were against it and have had time to reflect, then glad to welcome you and totally understand, but how do you welcome or trust someone who has tried to case harm, and then failed and then wants to come back, have they no principles.

Who are you to 'welcome' people back? You're just a simple man watching a local-ish football club. Know your place!

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

what a ridiculous analogy! the miners tried to keep their jobs to support their families, while a bunch of football fans went back to watch their team after they changed from blue to red!!!!!

Mate you really should be on suicide watch cos you never have anything happy or positive to say.

I think its the first time I've ever agreed with him.

If a new regime comes in, we may go back to blue. Until then we play in red.

Simples.

We will be too far down the road by the time we are sold on to a new regime. Our board have already been taken over by Malaysian's, by the time the rest of our identity is stripped away and our stadium gets extended with red seats, any new regime will think it's totally pointless wasting money just to change us back to blue.

Watching us this season has never totally felt like my club. Therefore, any success we get I can't appreciate as much as previously. I am a lot quieter at games now, the passion isn't there as much and the elation I should feel being 10 points clear should be a lot greater than this. If you gave my a choice out of watching us in red against Man Utd or watching us in blue against Macclesfield, it would be Macclesfield every time. I want my club back!

Actually speechless. I'm not even gonna get lured into ranting about this again

Thank god for that

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

what a ridiculous analogy! the miners tried to keep their jobs to support their families, while a bunch of football fans went back to watch their team after they changed from blue to red!!!!!

Mate you really should be on suicide watch cos you never have anything happy or positive to say.

I think its a perfect analogy.

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Truth hurts hey?

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Truth hurts hey?

What do you mean truth hurts? Correct me if i'm wrong but you still go to go games and put money in tan's pocket!
So you are a SCAB as well

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Truth hurts hey?

What do you mean truth hurts? Correct me if i'm wrong but you still go to go games and put money in tan's pocket!
So you are a SCAB as well

Nope I support the club but I don't support the rebrand by buying the merchandise or approving of it.

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Truth hurts hey?

Up the SELL OUTS all 20K plus of us

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Truth hurts hey?

Up the SELL OUTS all 20K plus of us

Yeah lets hear you shout "Do the Ayatollah Vincent" when he is in town.

I would say 19K wont join you.

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Truth hurts hey?

What do you mean truth hurts? Correct me if i'm wrong but you still go to go games and put money in tan's pocket!
So you are a SCAB as well

Just explained above.

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Bang on pal

Sticking with your team no matter what is a sell out? Oh grow up.

Sticking with your team no matter what is a sell out? Oh grow up.

No. I think their point is that accepting the identity of our club being totally disgregarded in search of Premier League football is being a sell-out.

Not going to be arsed to reply to this guy as the subject has been done to death. However just like Nottingham are still referred to as scabs like nearly 30 years later, this guy and many others will be known as sell outs until they go to their graves.

Truth hurts hey?

Up the SELL OUTS all 20K plus of us

Yeah lets hear you shout "Do the Ayatollah Vincent" when he is in town.

I would say 19K wont join you.

I would say they already have, based on your definition below.

"Nope I support the club but I don't support the rebrand by buying the merchandise or approving of it". ... Didn't you just say this?

So we have least 18k shirts bought with the new badge.... feck me we have alot of sell outs don't we.

Lets gets something straight Mr.Moderator , you know feck all about me so don't even attempt to put me in your "sell out" box .