' Do they still worry you ? '

Do the finances of our club still worry you or never ever did really ?

I know I sound gloom and doom by bringing this up, but to me the future of our club is what I always think about, to me it sounds like most just care about who we are going to sign next at any cost ? I believe in reality.

When Sam was spending like a mad man, no one moaned incl me.
When the Riddler was bringing all the big names in, most did not care again,I really did then as I had realised from before.
We are doing the same under Tan, but on a much larger than ever scale. yes he has the money behind him, but it is being lent to us on interest.

Our debts under 3 different chairmen have gone from

£24 mill

£38 mill

£105 mill

Just wondering does it bother you ? honest answers please

Yes and No

It is a lot but I believe Tan wants to stay with us for the long haul however if he did pull out like Sam did then we are deep sh*t, but there again if Tan didn't come in when he did, then we would be playing Portsmouth every year on a slide

My worry is that we need to get to the premier league to pay off the debt.

The amount owed has gone over the tipping point in the sense that we cannot pay it off now, however much it grows to.
It was probably beyond the repayable amount when it reached £20 million, so £30, £50 £100 million does not make any difference. None of those amounts could ever realistically be repayed.

Anyway it is VT's money and unless the club are successful (in this case premier league) he will not get it back either. So he has to keep going to safeguard his investment.
The club have assets (stadium, players etc) but they will also be worth a lot more if promtion is achieved.

My worry is that we need to get to the premier league to pay off the debt.

The amount owed has gone over the tipping point in the sense that we cannot pay it off now, however much it grows to.
It was probably beyond the repayable amount when it reached £20 million, so £30, £50 £100 million does not make any difference. None of those amounts could ever realistically be repayed.

Anyway it is VT's money and unless the club are successful (in this case premier league) he will not get it back either. So he has to keep going to safeguard his investment.
The club have assets (stadium, players etc) but they will also be worth a lot more if promtion is achieved.

Despite what the scaremongerers amongst us say I believe the debt to equity swap will eventually happen. Tan wants to make money from this club, if he swaps the debt to equity he gets a very large share in this club. He is looking to invest in new training facilities also which would make us a very valuable club to sell once/if we get to the Premier League without any debt.

And as you said, us going bust is no good for Tan. I dont think its anything to be worried about at the present. But watch this space for sure.

yer we should be really worried top of the league board backing manager record season ticket holders debt to one man only new training ground on way players of very high standard no inner circles course we should be worried .been a city follower for 50 years best times ever nqat . no lets all chase the malaysians out of cardiff is it grow up chaps there is a lot of good been done by these people so lets embrace it not try and destabilise and destroy please .

Football is a release from my own worries. I'll do my job as a fan and support the Club, I'll let the business men running the club do theirs. Why worry when we don't know all the current facts or what the future holds

Just curious, in terms of the money we have to spend, how much would you say we have, in comparison to a Prem team? 15m, 25m etc?

For those who do not know what happens at the end of each month with Cardiff City AFC'S accounts:-

1) Every effort is made to pay invoices when due within the period required, as requested on the invoice, if there is not enough income from that month, Tan or his company pay the shortfall, I am not sure who is the source, this include"s transfers, wages and expenses.

2) there does not exist a written or verbal contract to charge interest on these monies paid into the club, any interest percentage paid on these payments is pure figment of somebody's imagination, our present manager and our previous manager, has said that Tan has not taken a penny out of the club, and yet I find it amazing that people will believe Malky when it suits them on certain things, but not when it's to do with Tan.

I know that some will say"source"' but I will never give any excuses as to who the source is' because it was told to me from a position of trust' so say what you want call me what you want, don't care.

The following is purely my own opinion of our future under Tan:-

I don't think we will ever go back to being blue, as to our badge' I don't know' I don't think it will ever be anyone's cup of tea, certainly if it doesn't contain the bluebird it won't.

The fact that we now have the go ahead for the new state of the art training ground, makes me think that our future will be built on finding our own future stars, and that the cost of future transfers will be so high, some of the top clubs will go bust, and so called top players will price themselves out of the market, people say that football is a spectator sport and not a business, I think this will change, if it hasn't already

What makes a business profitable, efficient staff', efficiency in the work place, customer satisfaction incomings over out goings etc, I believe that because Tan is not or was not a football man, he will run Cardiff City AFC like a business, but not just any business, but with the rewards that is going to come in the future with the premiership, advertising on a global scale, this is why he will not make major alterations to the ground until we stay in the premiership for at least one year, the rewards from that one year will pay for any alterations, but judging by the guests we have had recently to home matches, I believe there will be massive investment from abroad, with a view to Cardiff City AFC becoming a global company, this may sound like make believe, but look what advertising has done to the world markets, the first thing he has done is put our matches on his TV station, people say we won't sell many shirts or merchandise, it's not about Cardiff City merchandise, it,s about advertising when we are playing Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, think of the fans who want to see those teams, if Cardiff City become popular too, then all well and good.

I think that this may take about 15years give or take, the rewards are there now just think what it will be like in years to come especially with the recession over,this I think is Tans Dream.

Will we as fans be part of it, not as we know it now, I think we will become small share holders, each time we buy a season ticket we will get a share issue, not enough to have a baring on board decisions, but enough to feel part of the club, how we organise our selves up to us,feel we are not part of some thing, and we won't have a say in anything.

Which takes me back to the present , I think the majority on this board, are against the changes made so far, whether anybody outside of this board is that concerned I don't know, I'm not so sure they are, I certainly don't hear it being discussed in the Ninian Stand where I sit, but thats not the point, I know if and when this happens I won't be going down the City, not because I don't want to, but because now I am retired I won't be able to afford it.

I can't say it will or won't happen just my opinion, I do know I wouldn't be enjoying supporting a club run in that environment, I think in the 57 years I have been watching the city, I have had some good times, met some good mates and had some good drinking sessions, I will support the City on our way into the premiership, and as long as I can afford it.
'

Best post I've ever seen on here

It's all relative £1m debt with Kumar in charge was probably more risky than the current situation to be honest.

For those who do not know what happens at the end of each month with Cardiff City AFC'S accounts:-

1) Every effort is made to pay invoices when due within the period required, as requested on the invoice, if there is not enough income from that month, Tan or his company pay the shortfall, I am not sure who is the source, this include"s transfers, wages and expenses.

2) there does not exist a written or verbal contract to charge interest on these monies paid into the club, any interest percentage paid on these payments is pure figment of somebody's imagination, our present manager and our previous manager, has said that Tan has not taken a penny out of the club, and yet I find it amazing that people will believe Malky when it suits them on certain things, but not when it's to do with Tan.

I know that some will say"source"' but I will never give any excuses as to who the source is' because it was told to me from a position of trust' so say what you want call me what you want, don't care.

The following is purely my own opinion of our future under Tan:-

I don't think we will ever go back to being blue, as to our badge' I don't know' I don't think it will ever be anyone's cup of tea, certainly if it doesn't contain the bluebird it won't.

The fact that we now have the go ahead for the new state of the art training ground, makes me think that our future will be built on finding our own future stars, and that the cost of future transfers will be so high, some of the top clubs will go bust, and so called top players will price themselves out of the market, people say that football is a spectator sport and not a business, I think this will change, if it hasn't already

What makes a business profitable, efficient staff', efficiency in the work place, customer satisfaction incomings over out goings etc, I believe that because Tan is not or was not a football man, he will run Cardiff City AFC like a business, but not just any business, but with the rewards that is going to come in the future with the premiership, advertising on a global scale, this is why he will not make major alterations to the ground until we stay in the premiership for at least one year, the rewards from that one year will pay for any alterations, but judging by the guests we have had recently to home matches, I believe there will be massive investment from abroad, with a view to Cardiff City AFC becoming a global company, this may sound like make believe, but look what advertising has done to the world markets, the first thing he has done is put our matches on his TV station, people say we won't sell many shirts or merchandise, it's not about Cardiff City merchandise, it,s about advertising when we are playing Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, think of the fans who want to see those teams, if Cardiff City become popular too, then all well and good.

I think that this may take about 15years give or take, the rewards are there now just think what it will be like in years to come especially with the recession over,this I think is Tans Dream.

Will we as fans be part of it, not as we know it now, I think we will become small share holders, each time we buy a season ticket we will get a share issue, not enough to have a baring on board decisions, but enough to feel part of the club, how we organise our selves up to us,feel we are not part of some thing, and we won't have a say in anything.

Which takes me back to the present , I think the majority on this board, are against the changes made so far, whether anybody outside of this board is that concerned I don't know, I'm not so sure they are, I certainly don't hear it being discussed in the Ninian Stand where I sit, but thats not the point, I know if and when this happens I won't be going down the City, not because I don't want to, but because now I am retired I won't be able to afford it.

I can't say it will or won't happen just my opinion, I do know I wouldn't be enjoying supporting a club run in that environment, I think in the 57 years I have been watching the city, I have had some good times, met some good mates and had some good drinking sessions, I will support the City on our way into the premiership, and as long as I can afford it.
'

But as of yet we have not found a place or go further down the line on this state of art training ground.

Still no debt in to equity or shares

No stadium expansion

Settling Langston

Debt rising beyond.


When I start seeing some of the above done, I will be 100% more happier.
But yes I am loving my football, loving Malky and his team, but worried about our debt and still hurting regarding our rebrand.

WE come back to the SAME thing .Will there be a conversion from debt to EQUITY ?

And explain to me how that helps, because as I see it, it's his debt and all that means is he transfers it to his equity, at the the end of the day all the eggs are in his basket, its his money, his debt, his club.

How its helps ??? No company has been put into admin because of excessive amounts of share capital in issue . You pay no interest on ordinary share capital .

For those who do not know what happens at the end of each month with Cardiff City AFC'S accounts:-

1) Every effort is made to pay invoices when due within the period required, as requested on the invoice, if there is not enough income from that month, Tan or his company pay the shortfall, I am not sure who is the source, this include"s transfers, wages and expenses.

2) there does not exist a written or verbal contract to charge interest on these monies paid into the club, any interest percentage paid on these payments is pure figment of somebody's imagination, our present manager and our previous manager, has said that Tan has not taken a penny out of the club, and yet I find it amazing that people will believe Malky when it suits them on certain things, but not when it's to do with Tan.

I know that some will say"source"' but I will never give any excuses as to who the source is' because it was told to me from a position of trust' so say what you want call me what you want, don't care.

The following is purely my own opinion of our future under Tan:-

I don't think we will ever go back to being blue, as to our badge' I don't know' I don't think it will ever be anyone's cup of tea, certainly if it doesn't contain the bluebird it won't.

The fact that we now have the go ahead for the new state of the art training ground, makes me think that our future will be built on finding our own future stars, and that the cost of future transfers will be so high, some of the top clubs will go bust, and so called top players will price themselves out of the market, people say that football is a spectator sport and not a business, I think this will change, if it hasn't already

What makes a business profitable, efficient staff', efficiency in the work place, customer satisfaction incomings over out goings etc, I believe that because Tan is not or was not a football man, he will run Cardiff City AFC like a business, but not just any business, but with the rewards that is going to come in the future with the premiership, advertising on a global scale, this is why he will not make major alterations to the ground until we stay in the premiership for at least one year, the rewards from that one year will pay for any alterations, but judging by the guests we have had recently to home matches, I believe there will be massive investment from abroad, with a view to Cardiff City AFC becoming a global company, this may sound like make believe, but look what advertising has done to the world markets, the first thing he has done is put our matches on his TV station, people say we won't sell many shirts or merchandise, it's not about Cardiff City merchandise, it,s about advertising when we are playing Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, think of the fans who want to see those teams, if Cardiff City become popular too, then all well and good.

I think that this may take about 15years give or take, the rewards are there now just think what it will be like in years to come especially with the recession over,this I think is Tans Dream.

Will we as fans be part of it, not as we know it now, I think we will become small share holders, each time we buy a season ticket we will get a share issue, not enough to have a baring on board decisions, but enough to feel part of the club, how we organise our selves up to us,feel we are not part of some thing, and we won't have a say in anything.

Which takes me back to the present , I think the majority on this board, are against the changes made so far, whether anybody outside of this board is that concerned I don't know, I'm not so sure they are, I certainly don't hear it being discussed in the Ninian Stand where I sit, but thats not the point, I know if and when this happens I won't be going down the City, not because I don't want to, but because now I am retired I won't be able to afford it.

I can't say it will or won't happen just my opinion, I do know I wouldn't be enjoying supporting a club run in that environment, I think in the 57 years I have been watching the city, I have had some good times, met some good mates and had some good drinking sessions, I will support the City on our way into the premiership, and as long as I can afford it.
'

This post deserves to made a sticky under its own heading but I gaurantee what you've said will go over the heads of most on here.In the world of internet message boards rumour and spin rules but even your very educated guesswork is probably closer to the truth than those that claim to be ITK.

Big difference between the club not paying interest and it not being accrued on top of the existing debt , Given how our debt has spiralled in the last few years I will be amazed if the cash being pumped in is not attracting interest

If Tan wanted an investment to earn him interest he would not have invested in a football club. I find it bizarre the obsession some have with whether we pay interest or not and at what rate

For those who do not know what happens at the end of each month with Cardiff City AFC'S accounts:-

1) Every effort is made to pay invoices when due within the period required, as requested on the invoice, if there is not enough income from that month, Tan or his company pay the shortfall, I am not sure who is the source, this include"s transfers, wages and expenses.

2) there does not exist a written or verbal contract to charge interest on these monies paid into the club, any interest percentage paid on these payments is pure figment of somebody's imagination, our present manager and our previous manager, has said that Tan has not taken a penny out of the club, and yet I find it amazing that people will believe Malky when it suits them on certain things, but not when it's to do with Tan.

I know that some will say"source"' but I will never give any excuses as to who the source is' because it was told to me from a position of trust' so say what you want call me what you want, don't care.

The following is purely my own opinion of our future under Tan:-

I don't think we will ever go back to being blue, as to our badge' I don't know' I don't think it will ever be anyone's cup of tea, certainly if it doesn't contain the bluebird it won't.

The fact that we now have the go ahead for the new state of the art training ground, makes me think that our future will be built on finding our own future stars, and that the cost of future transfers will be so high, some of the top clubs will go bust, and so called top players will price themselves out of the market, people say that football is a spectator sport and not a business, I think this will change, if it hasn't already

What makes a business profitable, efficient staff', efficiency in the work place, customer satisfaction incomings over out goings etc, I believe that because Tan is not or was not a football man, he will run Cardiff City AFC like a business, but not just any business, but with the rewards that is going to come in the future with the premiership, advertising on a global scale, this is why he will not make major alterations to the ground until we stay in the premiership for at least one year, the rewards from that one year will pay for any alterations, but judging by the guests we have had recently to home matches, I believe there will be massive investment from abroad, with a view to Cardiff City AFC becoming a global company, this may sound like make believe, but look what advertising has done to the world markets, the first thing he has done is put our matches on his TV station, people say we won't sell many shirts or merchandise, it's not about Cardiff City merchandise, it,s about advertising when we are playing Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, think of the fans who want to see those teams, if Cardiff City become popular too, then all well and good.

I think that this may take about 15years give or take, the rewards are there now just think what it will be like in years to come especially with the recession over,this I think is Tans Dream.

Will we as fans be part of it, not as we know it now, I think we will become small share holders, each time we buy a season ticket we will get a share issue, not enough to have a baring on board decisions, but enough to feel part of the club, how we organise our selves up to us,feel we are not part of some thing, and we won't have a say in anything.

Which takes me back to the present , I think the majority on this board, are against the changes made so far, whether anybody outside of this board is that concerned I don't know, I'm not so sure they are, I certainly don't hear it being discussed in the Ninian Stand where I sit, but thats not the point, I know if and when this happens I won't be going down the City, not because I don't want to, but because now I am retired I won't be able to afford it.

I can't say it will or won't happen just my opinion, I do know I wouldn't be enjoying supporting a club run in that environment, I think in the 57 years I have been watching the city, I have had some good times, met some good mates and had some good drinking sessions, I will support the City on our way into the premiership, and as long as I can afford it.
'

But as of yet we have not found a place or go further down the line on this state of art training ground.

Still no debt in to equity or shares

No stadium expansion

Settling Langston

Debt rising beyond.


When I start seeing some of the above done, I will be 100% more happier.
But yes I am loving my football, loving Malky and his team, but worried about our debt and still hurting regarding our rebrand.

At the time of Ridsdale leaving reported debt?
Loan Notes. £24.m ,Paul Guy £12.m, Ray Ranson. £ 5m. PAYE. £4m, Construction shortfall unpaid. £7. with no lights.
Also Remember Under Hamman/Ridsdale we sold Gabbidon, Earnshaw, Collins,Kavanah, Gunter, Ramsey, plus. All in all this adds up to a tidy sum of some app. £65 to £70 mill and not one penny under the control of Tan and co.
Based on the above I think it totally unfair to indicate that since Hamman/ Ridsdale's era/era's that the present principle shareholder has created the debt between 38m and 105m. Its a very misleading statement. I wont mention present players value's, Stadium inferstructure etc, which would further narrow the amount of debt difference between now and 3 years ago.

Of course it does but I'm a sixteen year old fan, I cant do nothing about it just like a lot of people, leave the businessmen to do their work.

no.

Yes

Yes, it does, the debt will not be paid off by one season in the premier league either will take 4 or5 seasons to tackle the current debt. As wages much higher in EPL most of the money made will go trying to stay there if we finally get promoted.

We have been lucky to win some of the games with some poor performances, in the EPL we would have been punished big time. We won't stay up on luck !!!!

If we don't get promoted or come straight back down the debt may well be the end of the club.

For those who do not know what happens at the end of each month with Cardiff City AFC'S accounts:-

1) Every effort is made to pay invoices when due within the period required, as requested on the invoice, if there is not enough income from that month, Tan or his company pay the shortfall, I am not sure who is the source, this include"s transfers, wages and expenses.

2) there does not exist a written or verbal contract to charge interest on these monies paid into the club, any interest percentage paid on these payments is pure figment of somebody's imagination, our present manager and our previous manager, has said that Tan has not taken a penny out of the club, and yet I find it amazing that people will believe Malky when it suits them on certain things, but not when it's to do with Tan.

I know that some will say"source"' but I will never give any excuses as to who the source is' because it was told to me from a position of trust' so say what you want call me what you want, don't care.

The following is purely my own opinion of our future under Tan:-

I don't think we will ever go back to being blue, as to our badge' I don't know' I don't think it will ever be anyone's cup of tea, certainly if it doesn't contain the bluebird it won't.

The fact that we now have the go ahead for the new state of the art training ground, makes me think that our future will be built on finding our own future stars, and that the cost of future transfers will be so high, some of the top clubs will go bust, and so called top players will price themselves out of the market, people say that football is a spectator sport and not a business, I think this will change, if it hasn't already

What makes a business profitable, efficient staff', efficiency in the work place, customer satisfaction incomings over out goings etc, I believe that because Tan is not or was not a football man, he will run Cardiff City AFC like a business, but not just any business, but with the rewards that is going to come in the future with the premiership, advertising on a global scale, this is why he will not make major alterations to the ground until we stay in the premiership for at least one year, the rewards from that one year will pay for any alterations, but judging by the guests we have had recently to home matches, I believe there will be massive investment from abroad, with a view to Cardiff City AFC becoming a global company, this may sound like make believe, but look what advertising has done to the world markets, the first thing he has done is put our matches on his TV station, people say we won't sell many shirts or merchandise, it's not about Cardiff City merchandise, it,s about advertising when we are playing Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea etc, think of the fans who want to see those teams, if Cardiff City become popular too, then all well and good.

I think that this may take about 15years give or take, the rewards are there now just think what it will be like in years to come especially with the recession over,this I think is Tans Dream.

Will we as fans be part of it, not as we know it now, I think we will become small share holders, each time we buy a season ticket we will get a share issue, not enough to have a baring on board decisions, but enough to feel part of the club, how we organise our selves up to us,feel we are not part of some thing, and we won't have a say in anything.

Which takes me back to the present , I think the majority on this board, are against the changes made so far, whether anybody outside of this board is that concerned I don't know, I'm not so sure they are, I certainly don't hear it being discussed in the Ninian Stand where I sit, but thats not the point, I know if and when this happens I won't be going down the City, not because I don't want to, but because now I am retired I won't be able to afford it.

I can't say it will or won't happen just my opinion, I do know I wouldn't be enjoying supporting a club run in that environment, I think in the 57 years I have been watching the city, I have had some good times, met some good mates and had some good drinking sessions, I will support the City on our way into the premiership, and as long as I can afford it.
'

But as of yet we have not found a place or go further down the line on this state of art training ground.

Still no debt in to equity or shares

No stadium expansion

Settling Langston

Debt rising beyond.


When I start seeing some of the above done, I will be 100% more happier.
But yes I am loving my football, loving Malky and his team, but worried about our debt and still hurting regarding our rebrand.

Annis, I don't think anything you've mentioned there will even be touched until we are promoted. Personally, none of the above will be dealt with this season in the Championship imo.

No.

As previously stated, ironically this club is more secure now than I can ever remember during the 33 years I have supported us.

In for a penny, in for £105 million (allegedly), what's the difference?

I have no influence whatsover over the finances of the club so what's the point in me worrying about it?

Just enjoy the ride Annis.......you know you want to.