IRA

You can't side with Germany during a war.

why? who are the british troops fighting alongside with in afghanistan?

Because that is exactly the same........

Anal for the sake of being anal.

I just dont like that generalisation, Ireland sided inofficially with Germany in WW1 (common enemy), but stayed completely neutral during WW2...

I just watched Bloody Sunday. Good film.

I just watched Bloody Sunday. Good film.

It is a very good film, but the 2 best films about Ireland in my view are :

"The Wind that Shakes the Barley" by Ken Loach; and

"Hunger" by the new English Director Steve McQueen (not to be confused with the American actor.)

The first deals with the situation in 1920-21 and the second deals with the Hunger strike.

The British Army should never of been depolyed.

There do not have the training needed to deal with the public etc.

Their deployment escalated the situation.

Lack of training led to 'Bloody Sunday'.

Again, notice the actions of the army filled the ranks of the PIRA.

You can't side with Germany during a war.

why? who are the british troops fighting alongside with in afghanistan?

Because that is exactly the same........

Anal for the sake of being anal.

I just dont like that generalisation, Ireland sided inofficially with Germany in WW1 (common enemy), but stayed completely neutral during WW2...

Use some common sense.

Siding with Germany was like a red rag to a bull.

Thus creating anti-Irish feeling within the UK.

I think there's no doubt that the events of Bloody Sunday was the biggest promotion that the Government could ever have given the Republican movement.

It's also sad to think that in 1969, the arrival of British troops was greeted favourably by a significant part of the Republican community, but after January 1972, there was never chance for that goodwill to be recovered.

The problems in Ireland were a tragedy for everyone involved, and there were countless lives lost for all the following groups : -

The Police
British Soldiers
Irish Republican organisations
Loyalist organisations
Innocent civilians in the 6 counties
Innocent civilians in England

No one was a winner, and that is why (even though its a compromise from purist principles) I support the Good Friday Agreement.

Let me explain why siding with Germany was a huge mistake for SF.

First off all, it created a lot of anti-Irish feeling on the mainland - that includes the English, Scots and Welsh.

If the general public are anti continued rule of Ireland then the British Govt tends to follow. They did that in America.


The second point, and this is the most important point, is that it createda even larger North/South devide.

The North sent a lot of men to fight in both wars and any pro German statements is simply going to keep the North hostile to the South.

Thus making the North more determined to stay British.

Being pro-German didn't help the SF at all, but as I pointed out it in fact did damage.

Let me explain why siding with Germany was a huge mistake for SF.

First off all, it created a lot of anti-Irish feeling on the mainland - that includes the English, Scots and Welsh.

If the general public are anti continued rule of Ireland then the British Govt tends to follow. They did that in America.


The second point, and this is the most important point, is that it createda even larger North/South devide.

The North sent a lot of men to fight in both wars and any pro German statements is simply going to keep the North hostile to the South.

Thus making the North more determined to stay British.

Being pro-German didn't help the SF at all, but as I pointed out it in fact did damage.

I'll re-post what I've said above :-

The problem with that is that it's a natural reaction for most people to take the position of ......"the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Obviously, in 1939 no one was aware of the full depravity of what the Hitler regime would do - the extent of the Holocaust was something that Britain and other countries would not even accept late into the war.

With hindsight, no one would want to even remotely support such a regime, but at the time, the Irish people would merely have seen it as another war involving Britian. Also, in fairness to them, they were neutral, and despite manay attempts to say they gave active support to Germany, this has been far from proven.

What has been shown beyond much doubt is that at a series of meetings between 17–26 June 1940, during and after the Battle of France, Malcolm MacDonald brought a proposal to end the partition of Ireland and offered a solemn undertaking to accept "the principle of a United Ireland" if Ireland would abandon its neutrality and immediately join the war against Germany and Italy. However, the reality of unity would have to be agreed by the "representatives of the government of Éire and the government of Northern Ireland", each of which distrusted the other intensely. De Valera therefore rejected the amended proposals on 4 July, worried that there was "no guarantee that in the end we would have a united Ireland" and that it "would commit us definitely to an immediate abandonment of our neutrality". De Valera had campaigned against partition and the 1937 Constitution drafted by him had an irredentist clause describing the State as the "whole island of Ireland". After the war he again called repeatedly for the ending of partition. The offer and his rejection remained secret until a biography was published in 1970.

I know what you posted.

Do you remember what I said about the importance of SF being able to unite Ireland?

Don't think of the mainland.

Picture yourself as Ultster woman and you have just lost your son in WWI.

And then you read about pro-German statements coming from SF.

What do you think will happen?

I know why SF did it. I just think it was a huge mistake.

And it's not about what the Nazi's did.

It was about siding with people that were killing young men from Ulster.

I know what you posted.

Do you remember what I said about the importance of SF being able to unite Ireland?

Don't think of the mainland.

Picture yourself as Ultster woman and you have just lost your son in WWI.

And then you read about pro-German statements coming from SF.

What do you think will happen?

I know why SF did it. I just think it was a huge mistake.

And it's not about what the Nazi's did.

It was about siding with people that were killing young men from Ulster.

How much real support did Sinn Fein actually give to the Central Powers in the Great War though - I'm aware of the fact they whistled the German anthem when they were imprisoned in Frongoch prison, but didn't they actually say that was ironic?

This is an area I'm not that certain on, so if there are genuine examples of someone like DeValera actually supporting the Central Powers in the Great War, I'd be interested in seeing the details, as I've never heard that before.

I am aware of the examples of bravery by many Ulster regiments in the Great War, and notably on the first day of the Battle of the Somme for example, so could see why that may have been insensitive, to say the least.

I'll look at any details you've got on this with interest, as that was unknown to me, whereas I was familiar with the allegations about WW2. which is what I've referred to above.

Last edited by Die Walkure on Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think when you have had a member of your family taken from you by the ira and you see the longstanding grief my family suffer then you are entitled to a say on the matter.

Each case is different to the next case .All I will say is the people of NI showed a lot of gratitude for all the work my uncle did in there community serving with the RRW . The IRA shot him and killed him and thats all I will say on the matter.

For anyone to will people to form a welsh IRA as such is just an idiot lots of people on both sides still hurting from 40 years ago and people on here are suggesting we have a welsh version its madness and dishonorable and people should grow up and think what they are saying how can you want a welsh version utter ludicrous.

I think when you have had a member of your family taken from you by the ira and you see the longstanding grief my family suffer then you are entitled to a say on the matter.

Each case is different to the next case .All I will say is the people of NI showed a lot of gratitude for all the work my uncle did in there community serving with the RRW . The IRA shot him and killed him and thats all I will say on the matter.

For anyone to will people to form a welsh IRA as such is just an idiot lots of people on both sides still hurting from 40 years ago and people on here are suggesting we have a welsh version its madness and dishonorable and people should grow up and think what they are saying how can you want a welsh version utter ludicrous.

RRW/RWF as one - god bless!!

I just watched Bloody Sunday. Good film.

It is a very good film, but the 2 best films about Ireland in my view are :

"The Wind that Shakes the Barley" by Ken Loach; and

"Hunger" by the new English Director Steve McQueen (not to be confused with the American actor.)

The first deals with the situation in 1920-21 and the second deals with the Hunger strike.

I've been meaning to watch "In the name of the father" with Daniel Day Lewis. You seen it?

I just watched Bloody Sunday. Good film.

It is a very good film, but the 2 best films about Ireland in my view are :

"The Wind that Shakes the Barley" by Ken Loach; and

"Hunger" by the new English Director Steve McQueen (not to be confused with the American actor.)

The first deals with the situation in 1920-21 and the second deals with the Hunger strike.

I've been meaning to watch "In the name of the father" with Daniel Day Lewis. You seen it?

thats a good one. seen it...

I think when you have had a member of your family taken from you by the ira and you see the longstanding grief my family suffer then you are entitled to a say on the matter.

Each case is different to the next case .All I will say is the people of NI showed a lot of gratitude for all the work my uncle did in there community serving with the RRW . The IRA shot him and killed him and thats all I will say on the matter.

For anyone to will people to form a welsh IRA as such is just an idiot lots of people on both sides still hurting from 40 years ago and people on here are suggesting we have a welsh version its madness and dishonorable and people should grow up and think what they are saying how can you want a welsh version utter ludicrous.

RRW/RWF as one - god bless!!

Oh thanks mate wouldnt have posted but most people on here who have posted are ok but 1 person got to me trying to will someone into saying the wrong thing just to invoke an argument and to me that was very sad.very touching from you and god bless you to .

I think when you have had a member of your family taken from you by the ira and you see the longstanding grief my family suffer then you are entitled to a say on the matter. Each case is different to the next case .All I will say is the people of NI showed a lot of gratitude for all the work my uncle did in there community serving with the RRW . The IRA shot him and killed him and thats all I will say on the matter. For anyone to will people to form a welsh IRA as such is just an idiot lots of people on both sides still hurting from 40 years ago and people on here are suggesting we have a welsh version its madness and dishonorable and people should grow up and think what they are saying how can you want a welsh version utter ludicrous.

RRW/RWF as one - god bless!!

You know, thats something that always really wound me up, Welsh regiment names preceeded by royal this royal that...Why can't you fight for Wales without sucking on old lizzies minge? I Couldn't care less about the English royal family.

I just watched Bloody Sunday. Good film.

It is a very good film, but the 2 best films about Ireland in my view are :

"The Wind that Shakes the Barley" by Ken Loach; and

"Hunger" by the new English Director Steve McQueen (not to be confused with the American actor.)

The first deals with the situation in 1920-21 and the second deals with the Hunger strike.

I've been meaning to watch "In the name of the father" with Daniel Day Lewis. You seen it?

I have seen it, but a long time ago - it was good, but the other 2 are better (in my view).

"Michael Collins" by Neil Jordan is also good.

There is a book called, N Ireland" THE FACTS... some posters should read it.

I think when you have had a member of your family taken from you by the ira and you see the longstanding grief my family suffer then you are entitled to a say on the matter. Each case is different to the next case .All I will say is the people of NI showed a lot of gratitude for all the work my uncle did in there community serving with the RRW . The IRA shot him and killed him and thats all I will say on the matter. For anyone to will people to form a welsh IRA as such is just an idiot lots of people on both sides still hurting from 40 years ago and people on here are suggesting we have a welsh version its madness and dishonorable and people should grow up and think what they are saying how can you want a welsh version utter ludicrous.

RRW/RWF as one - god bless!!

You know, thats something that always really wound me up, Welsh regiment names preceeded by royal this royal that...Why can't you fight for Wales without sucking on old lizzies minge? I Couldn't care less about the English royal family.

Because in case you hadn't noticed it's called the British Army

The I.R.A. of the nineteen- twenties were freedom fighters who defeated the most powerful country in the world. The contemporary I.R.A are scum. I say this with Nortern Irish and Southern Irish relatives.

Exactly. Two very seperate entities. Unfortunately most only know the history of the latter

The I.R.A. of the nineteen- twenties were freedom fighters who defeated the most powerful country in the world. The contemporary I.R.A are scum. I say this with Nortern Irish and Southern Irish relatives.

Exactly. Two very seperate entities. Unfortunately most only know the history of the latter

Defeated.

The I.R.A. of the nineteen- twenties were freedom fighters who defeated the most powerful country in the world. The contemporary I.R.A are scum. I say this with Nortern Irish and Southern Irish relatives.

Exactly. Two very seperate entities. Unfortunately most only know the history of the latter

Defeated.

I wouldn't say that. We'd still have Protestant gerrymandering and majority rule in Northern Ireland, despite the percentages of the community being much closer.