The Vaccine has landed- a giant step for mankind !!!

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

Much more than spot on, excellent post

Ta lads, I try my best

It is a great post and no one has been able to give a sensible reply to contradict it

its contradicted itself... the media has always been agenda based... then goes on to imply how its not this time.... discredit a few things that nobody actually said....and the 2 biggest scaremongers in Europe think its great.... waw...

Exactly still cant reply with a sensible counter argument, God knows what that actually means ?

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

Much more than spot on, excellent post

Ta lads, I try my best

It is a great post and no one has been able to give a sensible reply to contradict it

its contradicted itself... the media has always been agenda based... then goes on to imply how its not this time.... discredit a few things that nobody actually said....and the 2 biggest scaremongers in Europe think its great.... waw...

Except it didn’t and I’ve explained why. You’re either an idiot or on a wind up.

I’ll put it in terms you can understand;

the media is not one thing.... its lots of things combined.... lots of these things all have different agendas and always have done.... the media has always been agenda based but not with the same agenda.... pro brexit, anti brexit. Pro monarchy and no monarchy. Immigrants good, immigrants bad. War = yes, war = no.... so on and so on. the media always has agendas, but never ever one single agenda... TheHangedMan thinks the whole media is working together to falsely promote the vaccine with one single goal to... do something? The MSM has never had one single agenda to push and the power does not exist to unite all the different media corporations to force a narrative. Not only the media but the world governments as well, unless you think Boris, Biden, Macron, Merkel, Putin, et al base their policies on what they read in the papers.

Apologies, seemed to have slipped back into some form of grammatical sense at the end waw..... waw..

They must know this to be the case really, how could you think otherwise, it defies logic?

Ealing, you know you're my favourite chimp but what was the point of that? It was very generic and none of those were the actual news channels, just local news and even then there was no context about what they were each talking about or which side they were blaming. Stick to banana testing.

For someone who normally writes so well I'm surprised you've posted a vid with no additional text.

All these clips are just regional channels from the same parent companies so if it's supposed to show dozens of news corporations colluding it's a bit misleading. Below is a list of all the logos and channel names I could discern (I'm not clued up on my American news stations so if I miss some I apologise).

Fox 11
Fox 12
Fox 28
Fox 29
Fox 57
Fox 58
Fox 66

ABC 2
ABC 6
ABC 7
ABC 13
ABC 15
ABC 20
ABC 44
ABC 74

CBS 2
CBS 3
CBS 4
CBS 5
CBS 6
CBS 15

So in actuality it's 7 FOX channels, 8 ABC channels, 6 CBS channels. Secondly scripts are the norm on all news channels, in this case they were obviously talking about national events not just local. It would be pointless to ask your dozens of regional channels to write individual scripts for the same story/message when you can get one writer to produce one script for every channel. I imagine if you watched the regional BBC news channels tonight (Wales, Alba, South West, East Midlands, East, etc.) you would be able to pick up the backbone of a pre prepared script.

Considering your normal standards this is very low effort.

For someone who normally writes so well I'm surprised you've posted a vid with no additional text.

All these clips are just regional channels from the same parent companies so if it's supposed to show dozens of news corporations colluding it's a bit misleading. Below is a list of all the logos and channel names I could discern (I'm not clued up on my American news stations so if I miss some I apologise).

Fox 11
Fox 12
Fox 28
Fox 29
Fox 57
Fox 58
Fox 66

ABC 2
ABC 6
ABC 7
ABC 13
ABC 15
ABC 20
ABC 44
ABC 74

CBS 2
CBS 3
CBS 4
CBS 5
CBS 6
CBS 15

So in actuality it's 7 FOX channels, 8 ABC channels, 6 CBS channels. Secondly scripts are the norm on all news channels, in this case they were obviously talking about national events not just local. It would be pointless to ask your dozens of regional channels to write individual scripts for the same story/message when you can get one writer to produce one script for every channel. I imagine if you watched the regional BBC news channels tonight (Wales, Alba, South West, East Midlands, East, etc.) you would be able to pick up the backbone of a pre prepared script.

Considering your normal standards this is very low effort.

And not one of them any of my local channels.

WHo ever controls teh media controls the mind

Let me control the media and I will turn any nation into a herd of pigs

Old people don’t need companionship. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.

6 companies own 90% the legacy media

GE, NewsCorp, Disney, Viacom, Time Warner and CBS

232 Media Execs control the information 277 million Americans watch.

In terms of new/social media the reach and control is even more concentrated

Over a quarter of the world's population are on Facebook
More than the US population are on Twitter.
Over half a billion people are on Weibo.

So while MSM isn't one entity exactly, those who control it are a pretty small club and we deffo ain't in it.

Whether the reporting on the pandemic has been fair or not is an entirely different conversation and i'm not putting a case forward or against. Just absolutely agree with what that handsome young fellow the Hanged Man suggest about trusting the MSM.

It is simply undeniable that the power (theoretically at least) to co-ordinate blanket coverage to lean in one direction and coerce the populace absolutely rests in the hands of very, very few people.

Also, just to clarify a point made earlier on in the thread (sorry can't remember who posted it), but no is has not a case of its always been this way.

Way back in the midst of time when I was a wee little baby chimp in the early eighties doing toothpaste commercials, US media concentration was 50 companies controlling 90% of media. so that is a contraction of around 85% (I think am tired and crap at maths at the best of times) in the last 35 years or so.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, it's up to people to make there own minds on what to believe regarding information surrounding the pandemic and the vaccines and of course to make a sound judgement based on whatever level of research they feel suitable.

But for those casually dismissing anything against the approved narrative, just take a moment to remember the only difference between the 'medical expert' you trust implicitly and 'some guy on the internet' is who chooses to 'allow' that medical expert to have a voice.

Similarly, ask yourself who chose to confine other incredibly well qualified medical experts whose views didn't fit the narrative like Dr Andrew Kaufman, Dr Mike Yeadon, Dr. Henning Bundgaard, Dr. Andreas Noack, Dr. Dolores Cahill etc etc to the deepest darkest corners of the internet like BitChute where they can be easily ignored and swept aside with that beautiful one-size-fits-all brush of 'conspiracy theorist'.

It may well be that the 20, maybe 30 or so ultra-wealthy, power-addicted CEOs that hold the power to literally control what we think may all be super benevolent, kindly old men with only our best interests at heart and would never, ever abuse the power that they have at their fingertips and only ever use their power for good, just like Spiderman would've wanted.

Probably, unlikely though.

Considering your normal standards this is very low effort.

Yeah, I got bored of taking a ton of completely unwarranted abuse, based on outright lies and being called things like the spawn of satan, being mocked for being open about having bi-polar, and being accused of being a self-loathing, idiot who hates decency who degrades and belittles black people constantly (despite never having once posted anything racist in my life).

Those are all near as damn it direct quotes btw. All from one person

And you know what...

It f*cking gets to you after a while so excuse me if I'll put a little bit less effort into posts from here on in.

Deaths in Gibraltar and Monaco have exploded since the introduction of the vaccine

Monaco had recorded a total of 3 deaths until vaccination started. A month on and that figure has increased by more than 600% to 19

Gibraltar had 7 deaths in total, and after a month of vaccinations are now up to 83 - a terrifying increase

I imagine if you watched the regional BBC news channels tonight (Wales, Alba, South West, East Midlands, East, etc.) you would be able to pick up the backbone of a pre prepared script.

Yes, but given that Fox is owned by NewsCorp, ABC is owned by Disney and CBS is owned by er, CNBS the better analogy would be for that same script to appear across Sky News(Fox Group), Channel 5 (Viacom) and ITV (independent I think)

So did the one cheeky scriptwriter just hawk the same script to three of the biggest media companies in the world or do you reckon they all just chipped in despite the fact they are all in competition with each other?

Deaths in Gibraltar and Monaco have exploded since the introduction of the vaccine

Monaco had recorded a total of 3 deaths until vaccination started. A month on and that figure has increased by more than 600% to 19

Gibraltar had 7 deaths in total, and after a month of vaccinations are now up to 83 - a terrifying increase

And after the UK has vaccinated over 13 million and the USA over 35 million neither have seen a 600% increase in deaths. Total global vaccinations are between 150 million and 200 million (the numbers get a bit skewed depending how countries report first doses/double doses). Monaco and Gibraltar are also tiny case studies so a single death massively inflates the numbers. 1 death in Monaco would’ve been a 33% increase and 1 death in Gibraltar 14%.

Also a quote directly from the Gibraltar government “Of the over 11,000 who have been vaccinated, 6 persons have since died for reasons unrelated to the vaccination and there is no evidence to link these to the vaccination in any way.” “These 6 persons appear to have contracted COVID-19 before they were vaccinated but, despite testing for COVID-19 before vaccination, the infection had not been detected in them at the time they were vaccinated, but in the days immediately after.”

All six were aged between 70 and 100, and all but one were care home residents.

The vaccine also doesn’t take effect immediately, it takes a few weeks so you can have the jab and still die several days afterwards

Considering your normal standards this is very low effort.

Yeah, I got bored of taking a ton of completely unwarranted abuse, based on outright lies and being called things like the spawn of satan, being mocked for being open about having bi-polar, and being accused of being a self-loathing, idiot who hates decency who degrades and belittles black people constantly (despite never having once posted anything racist in my life).

Those are all near as damn it direct quotes btw. All from one person

And you know what...

It f*cking gets to you after a while so excuse me if I'll put a little bit less effort into posts from here on in.

Crikey. I missed those threads apparently

Post as much or as little as you want pal, it wasn’t a criticism. I was just surprised as I don’t think I’d ever seen you post anything less than a paragraph before

Deaths in Gibraltar and Monaco have exploded since the introduction of the vaccine

Monaco had recorded a total of 3 deaths until vaccination started. A month on and that figure has increased by more than 600% to 19

Gibraltar had 7 deaths in total, and after a month of vaccinations are now up to 83 - a terrifying increase

And after the UK has vaccinated over 13 million and the USA over 35 million neither have seen a 600% increase in deaths. Total global vaccinations are between 150 million and 200 million (the numbers get a bit skewed depending how countries report first doses/double doses). Monaco and Gibraltar are also tiny case studies so a single death massively inflates the numbers. 1 death in Monaco would’ve been a 33% increase and 1 death in Gibraltar 14%.

Also a quote directly from the Gibraltar government “Of the over 11,000 who have been vaccinated, 6 persons have since died for reasons unrelated to the vaccination and there is no evidence to link these to the vaccination in any way.” “These 6 persons appear to have contracted COVID-19 before they were vaccinated but, despite testing for COVID-19 before vaccination, the infection had not been detected in them at the time they were vaccinated, but in the days immediately after.”

All six were aged between 70 and 100, and all but one were care home residents.

The vaccine also doesn’t take effect immediately, it takes a few weeks so you can have the jab and still die several days afterwards

Our deaths are very very high considering we’ve vaccinated most of the 70+ age category!

Ealing, you know you're my favourite chimp but what was the point of that?

Thankyou my esteemed Californian friend.

To be honest, I hit submit instead of preview and couldn't be arsed fixing it so just wrote the rest of the post in a new one but took a phone call in between. Also, for other reasons pointed out bit fed up with taking shite all the time, despite trying to post friendly and well-balanced arguments, so posting a lot less and a bit more succinctly (although that was a bit more succinct than I planned)

The point was simply to illustrate the rest of the thrust of my post of how easy it would be to (theoretically) get competing media channels ( Newscorp, Disney and CBS) pushing a consistent narrative - and how it has been done many times.

Stick to banana testing.

Sadly one of the only downsides to Brexit was that with fewer regulations on the straightness of bananas coming into these fine shores, these are testing times for us humble banana testers, the work just ain't there anymore, sadly without the strict guidance of Brussels, us Brits will take any banana that comes there way and to hell with the consequence.

No-one ever thinks about the banana testers we are just cast aside and forgotten as yesterday's chimps.

Still, at least we don't have to talk to the French anymore if we don't want to so swings and roundabouts.

Considering your normal standards this is very low effort.

Yeah, I got bored of taking a ton of completely unwarranted abuse, based on outright lies and being called things like the spawn of satan, being mocked for being open about having bi-polar, and being accused of being a self-loathing, idiot who hates decency who degrades and belittles black people constantly (despite never having once posted anything racist in my life).

Those are all near as damn it direct quotes btw. All from one person

And you know what...

It f*cking gets to you after a while so excuse me if I'll put a little bit less effort into posts from here on in.

Crikey. I missed those threads apparently

Post as much or as little as you want pal, it wasn’t a criticism. I was just surprised as I don’t think I’d ever seen you post anything less than a paragraph before

No probs man. Sorry for being a bit defensive.

Deaths in Gibraltar and Monaco have exploded since the introduction of the vaccine

Monaco had recorded a total of 3 deaths until vaccination started. A month on and that figure has increased by more than 600% to 19

Gibraltar had 7 deaths in total, and after a month of vaccinations are now up to 83 - a terrifying increase

And after the UK has vaccinated over 13 million and the USA over 35 million neither have seen a 600% increase in deaths. Total global vaccinations are between 150 million and 200 million (the numbers get a bit skewed depending how countries report first doses/double doses). Monaco and Gibraltar are also tiny case studies so a single death massively inflates the numbers. 1 death in Monaco would’ve been a 33% increase and 1 death in Gibraltar 14%.

Also a quote directly from the Gibraltar government “Of the over 11,000 who have been vaccinated, 6 persons have since died for reasons unrelated to the vaccination and there is no evidence to link these to the vaccination in any way.” “These 6 persons appear to have contracted COVID-19 before they were vaccinated but, despite testing for COVID-19 before vaccination, the infection had not been detected in them at the time they were vaccinated, but in the days immediately after.”

All six were aged between 70 and 100, and all but one were care home residents.

The vaccine also doesn’t take effect immediately, it takes a few weeks so you can have the jab and still die several days afterwards

Our deaths are very very high considering we’ve vaccinated most of the 70+ age category!

Our deaths have been dropping rapidly for nearly 3 weeks now. Our peak was on the 22nd of January with 1,401 deaths and a 7 day average of 1,241 deaths. Our 7 day average is now 834 deaths. Yesterday was 891, the day before was 901, and before that it was 932.

Our death rate is now lower than it was at our previous peak back in April.

Again the vaccine takes time to work and you can be infected before the jab and still die as well as be infected several days after the jab and still die. The 13 million figure is also first doses which is, I believe, 80% - 90% effective so of those 13 million there’s still potentially 2 million that are at risk.

Considering your normal standards this is very low effort.

Yeah, I got bored of taking a ton of completely unwarranted abuse, based on outright lies and being called things like the spawn of satan, being mocked for being open about having bi-polar, and being accused of being a self-loathing, idiot who hates decency who degrades and belittles black people constantly (despite never having once posted anything racist in my life).

Those are all near as damn it direct quotes btw. All from one person

And you know what...

It f*cking gets to you after a while so excuse me if I'll put a little bit less effort into posts from here on in.

Crikey. I missed those threads apparently

Post as much or as little as you want pal, it wasn’t a criticism. I was just surprised as I don’t think I’d ever seen you post anything less than a paragraph before

No probs man. Sorry for being a bit defensive.

No worries pal, genuinely didn’t know you been given some of that talk. You’re a good poster as I’m sure the vast majority will agree

Considering your normal standards this is very low effort.

Yeah, I got bored of taking a ton of completely unwarranted abuse, based on outright lies and being called things like the spawn of satan, being mocked for being open about having bi-polar, and being accused of being a self-loathing, idiot who hates decency who degrades and belittles black people constantly (despite never having once posted anything racist in my life).

Those are all near as damn it direct quotes btw. All from one person

And you know what...

It f*cking gets to you after a while so excuse me if I'll put a little bit less effort into posts from here on in.

Crikey. I missed those threads apparently

Post as much or as little as you want pal, it wasn’t a criticism. I was just surprised as I don’t think I’d ever seen you post anything less than a paragraph before

No probs man. Sorry for being a bit defensive.

No worries pal, genuinely didn’t know you been given some of that talk. You’re a good poster as I’m sure the vast majority will agree

I'll second that...!

They must know this to be the case really, how could you think otherwise, it defies logic?

you believe the media is agenda driven. but find it inconceivable that they can all have the same agenda..
although that is exactly what you have been getting for 11 months..
its a contradiction....

Considering your normal standards this is very low effort.

Yeah, I got bored of taking a ton of completely unwarranted abuse, based on outright lies and being called things like the spawn of satan, being mocked for being open about having bi-polar, and being accused of being a self-loathing, idiot who hates decency who degrades and belittles black people constantly (despite never having once posted anything racist in my life).

Those are all near as damn it direct quotes btw. All from one person

And you know what...

It f*cking gets to you after a while so excuse me if I'll put a little bit less effort into posts from here on in.

Crikey. I missed those threads apparently

Post as much or as little as you want pal, it wasn’t a criticism. I was just surprised as I don’t think I’d ever seen you post anything less than a paragraph before

No probs man. Sorry for being a bit defensive.

No worries pal, genuinely didn’t know you been given some of that talk. You’re a good poster as I’m sure the vast majority will agree

I'll second that...!

Alright, lads pack it in, this is way too friendly for this type of thread...

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

It's all about opinions and there is (quote) "shit" spouted on both sides in this thread; but the overriding FACT is that over 100,000+ people have died in the UK and the figures amount to many millions over the globe

So what are Governements and health officials supposed to do...?

They have developed a vaccine (based on previous research) in record time and it has been trialled and tested before approval

Clearly, we won't know beyond any shadow of doubt whether it is the Covid-19 'cure all' it is claimed (by some) to be but the signs are generally very good and it is better than watching many more people die because there is no other cure

Notably, the UK and in particular Oxford University, have led the field in developing this vaccine and I feel pretty confident (in the absence of a suspicious mind that all things Government are sinister) that what we have is valid and workable

Now, had said vaccine been developed in China itself or maybe Russia or North Korea, I might have a different view...

But it wasn't; it was developed in the UK with all its checks and counter-checks and, for once, said development has been both timely and credible...to most

I have a flu jab every year but I accept there is a chance (and it happens) that I will catch mild flu at some point but I don't get it to the levels that I once did and for me, that is a blessing; I hope (an apt word at this stage) and believe (based on available evidence) that this will be the case with the Covid Vaccine

Of course, only time will tell and I don't condemn anyone who declines the vaccine. It's a case of each to their own and that is their prerogative; but I do wonder if they have really asked themselves the right questions regarding the health, safety and well-being of themselves and others?

Chris the wording is the all important part of this. Died with covid is different to dying of Covid. The death rates are heavily manipulated. The actual deaths including the manipulated it does not resemble a pandemic by any means.
More people are taking there own lives than are dying of covid. The other day another City fan tried taking his own life and I think you may even know him. Suicides is a spiralling Pandemic not the virus and this is being ignored by the Government.

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

It's all about opinions and there is (quote) "shit" spouted on both sides in this thread; but the overriding FACT is that over 100,000+ people have died in the UK and the figures amount to many millions over the globe

So what are Governements and health officials supposed to do...?

They have developed a vaccine (based on previous research) in record time and it has been trialled and tested before approval

Clearly, we won't know beyond any shadow of doubt whether it is the Covid-19 'cure all' it is claimed (by some) to be but the signs are generally very good and it is better than watching many more people die because there is no other cure

Notably, the UK and in particular Oxford University, have led the field in developing this vaccine and I feel pretty confident (in the absence of a suspicious mind that all things Government are sinister) that what we have is valid and workable

Now, had said vaccine been developed in China itself or maybe Russia or North Korea, I might have a different view...

But it wasn't; it was developed in the UK with all its checks and counter-checks and, for once, said development has been both timely and credible...to most

I have a flu jab every year but I accept there is a chance (and it happens) that I will catch mild flu at some point but I don't get it to the levels that I once did and for me, that is a blessing; I hope (an apt word at this stage) and believe (based on available evidence) that this will be the case with the Covid Vaccine

Of course, only time will tell and I don't condemn anyone who declines the vaccine. It's a case of each to their own and that is their prerogative; but I do wonder if they have really asked themselves the right questions regarding the health, safety and well-being of themselves and others?

Chris the wording is the all important part of this. Died with covid is different to dying of Covid. The death rates are heavily manipulated. The actual deaths including the manipulated it does not resemble a pandemic by any means.
More people are taking there own lives than are dying of covid. The other day another City fan tried taking his own life and I think you may even know him. Suicides is a spiralling Pandemic not the virus and this is being ignored by the Government.

dying of covid compared to dying with covid are two separate things how they can say died of something without knowing 100% not sure.....They use excess deaths over 5 yrs to calculate figures so how do they explain flu deaths down massively when no magical cure...... heart deaths massively up cancer massively up plus other deaths up on previous years! Where do these deaths fit into the average total? Not a conspiracy theorist but figures do not add up.

Not a conspiracy theorist but figures do not add up.

If you ever change your mind mate and want to take that one last step, I can hook you up with a tidy tin foil hat just like mine. Just say the word and it's yours

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

It's all about opinions and there is (quote) "shit" spouted on both sides in this thread; but the overriding FACT is that over 100,000+ people have died in the UK and the figures amount to many millions over the globe

So what are Governements and health officials supposed to do...?

They have developed a vaccine (based on previous research) in record time and it has been trialled and tested before approval

Clearly, we won't know beyond any shadow of doubt whether it is the Covid-19 'cure all' it is claimed (by some) to be but the signs are generally very good and it is better than watching many more people die because there is no other cure

Notably, the UK and in particular Oxford University, have led the field in developing this vaccine and I feel pretty confident (in the absence of a suspicious mind that all things Government are sinister) that what we have is valid and workable

Now, had said vaccine been developed in China itself or maybe Russia or North Korea, I might have a different view...

But it wasn't; it was developed in the UK with all its checks and counter-checks and, for once, said development has been both timely and credible...to most

I have a flu jab every year but I accept there is a chance (and it happens) that I will catch mild flu at some point but I don't get it to the levels that I once did and for me, that is a blessing; I hope (an apt word at this stage) and believe (based on available evidence) that this will be the case with the Covid Vaccine

Of course, only time will tell and I don't condemn anyone who declines the vaccine. It's a case of each to their own and that is their prerogative; but I do wonder if they have really asked themselves the right questions regarding the health, safety and well-being of themselves and others?

Chris the wording is the all important part of this. Died with covid is different to dying of Covid. The death rates are heavily manipulated. The actual deaths including the manipulated it does not resemble a pandemic by any means.
More people are taking there own lives than are dying of covid. The other day another City fan tried taking his own life and I think you may even know him. Suicides is a spiralling Pandemic not the virus and this is being ignored by the Government.

dying of covid compared to dying with covid are two separate things how they can say died of something without knowing 100% not sure.....They use excess deaths over 5 yrs to calculate figures so how do they explain flu deaths down massively when no magical cure...... heart deaths massively up cancer massively up plus other deaths up on previous years! Where do these deaths fit into the average total? Not a conspiracy theorist but figures do not add up.

well you only have to read the thread to realise it all adds up perfectly well for many... lifetimes of not believing a word certain newspapers print but now believe they are printing gospel...
and we are never going to find out exactly how deadly this virus is or has been because theyve lumped so much money on covid and caused so much damage with restrictions.... but 10s of thousands of hospital beds lying empty day after day for months last year and millions of missed appointments , diagnosis and treatments must have come at a heavy cost.

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

It's all about opinions and there is (quote) "shit" spouted on both sides in this thread; but the overriding FACT is that over 100,000+ people have died in the UK and the figures amount to many millions over the globe

So what are Governements and health officials supposed to do...?

They have developed a vaccine (based on previous research) in record time and it has been trialled and tested before approval

Clearly, we won't know beyond any shadow of doubt whether it is the Covid-19 'cure all' it is claimed (by some) to be but the signs are generally very good and it is better than watching many more people die because there is no other cure

Notably, the UK and in particular Oxford University, have led the field in developing this vaccine and I feel pretty confident (in the absence of a suspicious mind that all things Government are sinister) that what we have is valid and workable

Now, had said vaccine been developed in China itself or maybe Russia or North Korea, I might have a different view...

But it wasn't; it was developed in the UK with all its checks and counter-checks and, for once, said development has been both timely and credible...to most

I have a flu jab every year but I accept there is a chance (and it happens) that I will catch mild flu at some point but I don't get it to the levels that I once did and for me, that is a blessing; I hope (an apt word at this stage) and believe (based on available evidence) that this will be the case with the Covid Vaccine

Of course, only time will tell and I don't condemn anyone who declines the vaccine. It's a case of each to their own and that is their prerogative; but I do wonder if they have really asked themselves the right questions regarding the health, safety and well-being of themselves and others?

Chris the wording is the all important part of this. Died with covid is different to dying of Covid. The death rates are heavily manipulated. The actual deaths including the manipulated it does not resemble a pandemic by any means.
More people are taking there own lives than are dying of covid. The other day another City fan tried taking his own life and I think you may even know him. Suicides is a spiralling Pandemic not the virus and this is being ignored by the Government.

That is a ridiculous statement which I do not believe, perhaps you can show me the figures of suicides to covid 19, and official figures not media ones, and also please explain the difference of your statement "Died with covid is different to dying of Covid." really there is no difference as due to covid you are dead. Lastly where on earth can you find the figures that said there is no pandemic?

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

It's all about opinions and there is (quote) "shit" spouted on both sides in this thread; but the overriding FACT is that over 100,000+ people have died in the UK and the figures amount to many millions over the globe

So what are Governements and health officials supposed to do...?

They have developed a vaccine (based on previous research) in record time and it has been trialled and tested before approval

Clearly, we won't know beyond any shadow of doubt whether it is the Covid-19 'cure all' it is claimed (by some) to be but the signs are generally very good and it is better than watching many more people die because there is no other cure

Notably, the UK and in particular Oxford University, have led the field in developing this vaccine and I feel pretty confident (in the absence of a suspicious mind that all things Government are sinister) that what we have is valid and workable

Now, had said vaccine been developed in China itself or maybe Russia or North Korea, I might have a different view...

But it wasn't; it was developed in the UK with all its checks and counter-checks and, for once, said development has been both timely and credible...to most

I have a flu jab every year but I accept there is a chance (and it happens) that I will catch mild flu at some point but I don't get it to the levels that I once did and for me, that is a blessing; I hope (an apt word at this stage) and believe (based on available evidence) that this will be the case with the Covid Vaccine

Of course, only time will tell and I don't condemn anyone who declines the vaccine. It's a case of each to their own and that is their prerogative; but I do wonder if they have really asked themselves the right questions regarding the health, safety and well-being of themselves and others?

Chris the wording is the all important part of this. Died with covid is different to dying of Covid. The death rates are heavily manipulated. The actual deaths including the manipulated it does not resemble a pandemic by any means.
More people are taking there own lives than are dying of covid. The other day another City fan tried taking his own life and I think you may even know him. Suicides is a spiralling Pandemic not the virus and this is being ignored by the Government.

That is a ridiculous statement which I do not believe, perhaps you can show me the figures of suicides to covid 19, and official figures not media ones, and also please explain the difference of your statement "Died with covid is different to dying of Covid." really there is no difference as due to covid you are dead. Lastly where on earth can you find the figures that said there is no pandemic?

covid gets put on the death certificate if you die of anything within 28 days of being tested positive... this is universally known is is said when announcing the deaths every day....

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

It's all about opinions and there is (quote) "shit" spouted on both sides in this thread; but the overriding FACT is that over 100,000+ people have died in the UK and the figures amount to many millions over the globe

So what are Governements and health officials supposed to do...?

They have developed a vaccine (based on previous research) in record time and it has been trialled and tested before approval

Clearly, we won't know beyond any shadow of doubt whether it is the Covid-19 'cure all' it is claimed (by some) to be but the signs are generally very good and it is better than watching many more people die because there is no other cure

Notably, the UK and in particular Oxford University, have led the field in developing this vaccine and I feel pretty confident (in the absence of a suspicious mind that all things Government are sinister) that what we have is valid and workable

Now, had said vaccine been developed in China itself or maybe Russia or North Korea, I might have a different view...

But it wasn't; it was developed in the UK with all its checks and counter-checks and, for once, said development has been both timely and credible...to most

I have a flu jab every year but I accept there is a chance (and it happens) that I will catch mild flu at some point but I don't get it to the levels that I once did and for me, that is a blessing; I hope (an apt word at this stage) and believe (based on available evidence) that this will be the case with the Covid Vaccine

Of course, only time will tell and I don't condemn anyone who declines the vaccine. It's a case of each to their own and that is their prerogative; but I do wonder if they have really asked themselves the right questions regarding the health, safety and well-being of themselves and others?

Chris the wording is the all important part of this. Died with covid is different to dying of Covid. The death rates are heavily manipulated. The actual deaths including the manipulated it does not resemble a pandemic by any means.
More people are taking there own lives than are dying of covid. The other day another City fan tried taking his own life and I think you may even know him. Suicides is a spiralling Pandemic not the virus and this is being ignored by the Government.

dying of covid compared to dying with covid are two separate things how they can say died of something without knowing 100% not sure.....They use excess deaths over 5 yrs to calculate figures so how do they explain flu deaths down massively when no magical cure...... heart deaths massively up cancer massively up plus other deaths up on previous years! Where do these deaths fit into the average total? Not a conspiracy theorist but figures do not add up.

What are the death figures for cancer and heart deaths? (obviously deaths From cancer and heart disease and not just with cancer or heart disease)

Not a conspiracy theorist but figures do not add up.

If you ever change your mind mate and want to take that one last step, I can hook you up with a tidy tin foil hat just like mine. Just say the word and it's yours

im still in the over reaction camp... the hysteria in our press and demands for restrictions and lockdowns back in March was enormous... and once you start with restrictions, lockdowns and spending billions on furloughs grants etc .. there is no way to walk it back...

Not a conspiracy theorist but figures do not add up.

If you ever change your mind mate and want to take that one last step, I can hook you up with a tidy tin foil hat just like mine. Just say the word and it's yours

im still in the over reaction camp... the hysteria in our press and demands for restrictions and lockdowns back in March was enormous... and once you start with restrictions, lockdowns and spending billions on furloughs grants etc .. there is no way to walk it back...

Yeah, I can see that being a reasonable assessment as well.

Add into the mix the way social media drives negative headlines as its proven negative headlines get more interaction and shares (which means more revenue at the end of the day for media) and that most politicians are led by the media and it all becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and no way to get that genie back in the bottle.

Gotta be honest the aluminium makes my head itch as well.

I've said before I'm not sure what scares me more though, whether every leader on the planet is incompetent or whether there really is a shadowy cabal controlling everything.

Either way, we're probably screwed - at least City have finally started winning though