Peoples Vote/Second Referendum?

What part of Jocks post didn’t you understand. He made no mention of Martin Lewis poll.

sorry I don't have the time or inclination to teach you basic comprehension skills.

My point is and always has been that the council is not made up of people who have stood for election by the people of Europe. The people of Europe can not vote them out.

You are just repeating the same mantra. Let's agree a few definitions and try to avoid confusing/muddying terms.....

European Commission
A team or 'College' of Commissioners, 1 from each EU country

European Council
Heads of state or government of EU countries, European Commission President, High Representative for Foreign Affairs & Security Policy

Council of the European Union
Government ministers from each EU country, according to the policy area to be discussed

President of the European Council: Donald Tusk
The President of the European Council is elected by the leaders in the Council every 2.5 years

President of the European Commission: Jean-Claude Juncker
The European Council votes by qualified majority for a nominee for the post of President, taking account of the latest European elections. This proposal is then put before Parliament which must approve or veto the appointment. If an absolute majority of MEPs support the nominee, he/she is elected.

They are all representatives of the governments of the member states who elected them or elected by MEPs.

As I have said before

We elect a government and the prime minister appoints a cabinet from the House of Commons or the House of Lords (and yes the UK cabinet can and does contain un-elected members of the House of Lords).

Cabinet Minister are not Elected they are appointed - the reasons for which are blindingly obvious.

I can't ever remember an European election where Junker Tusk etc stood for election by the electorate of the European Union. Therefore they are unaccountable and the process is undemocratic because the 'people' cannot ever remove them in a direct election.

Tony the reason you cannot remember Juncker standing in a "Direct" European election is that he never has. The only direct elections he has stood in were for the "Chambers Of Deputies" in Luxembourg.

In respect of the posts he has held within the EU it has been appointment after appointment, despite being exposed as the man who turned Luxembourg into the European Capital for Corporate Tax Avoidance. The biggest example was McDonalds, who despite having little effective business within the Grand Duchy, recorded profits of £1.8b and paid Corporation tax at just 1.45%, there are loads of other BIG name companies with Amazon and Fiat being examples.

His shady dealings eventually caught up with him and he was forced to resign as Prime Minister of Luxembourg but within weeks he was spending £m's on winning favour amongst MEP's to win an election for the Presidency of the EU Commission. I wonder where the funds for his campaign come from. After being appointed President of the EU Commission there was a motion of censure debated at the EU Parliament regarding his shady tax deals but the motion was defeated.

There is no way any politician could survive in the UK if they had overseen the Corporation Tax avoidance scheme that he was the architect of in Luxembourg, but in the HOME of European Democracy it's OK.

I voted leave in the 2016 referendum and I fully understood what that would entail and if a 2nd referendum is called I WILL 100% vote leave again. It's time for the British people not just to take back control of our laws, our borders and our budgets but MORE importantly to remove ANY influence that the Junckers of this world have on our Country and it's future.

Tony the reason you cannot remember Juncker standing in a "Direct" European election is that he never has. The only direct elections he has stood in were for the "Chambers Of Deputies" in Luxembourg.

sorry to spoil your story by bringing facts into it.....

The EPP won 220 out of 751 seats in the Parliament. On 27 June 2014, the European Council officially nominated Juncker for the position, and on 15 July 2014, the European Parliament elected him with a majority of 422 votes from a total of 729 cast.

Tony the reason you cannot remember Juncker standing in a "Direct" European election is that he never has. The only direct elections he has stood in were for the "Chambers Of Deputies" in Luxembourg.

sorry to spoil your story by bringing facts into it.....

The EPP won 220 out of 751 seats in the Parliament. On 27 June 2014, the European Council officially nominated Juncker for the position, and on 15 July 2014, the European Parliament elected him with a majority of 422 votes from a total of 729 cast.

Exactly he was never an MEP and he was appointed in a process involving less than 800 people which represents a population of over 500,000,000.

Thank you for highlighting the wonders of European Democracy.

Dave 67. Sensible question? Is the total sum of your knowledge gained from Wikepedia. Tip, if it is, I would consider widening your horizons a little.

Dave 67. Sensible question? Is the total sum of your knowledge gained from Wikepedia. Tip, if it is, I would consider widening your horizons a little.

Steve when you state as fact most people would expect you to be able to back it up with evidence. The evidence can then be disputed.

I appreciate that when you make things up and parrot dubious sources then this the above does not apply.

Exactly he was never an MEP and he was appointed in a process involving less than 800 people which represents a population of over 500,000,000.
Thank you for highlighting the wonders of European Democracy.

On the same basis Teresa may was elected Prime Minister of the UK because 37,718 people in Maidenhead voted for her.

maybe you should think before you assert this nonsense?

Dave 67. Sensible question? Is the total sum of your knowledge gained from Wikepedia. Tip, if it is, I would consider widening your horizons a little.

Steve when you state as fact most people would expect you to be able to back it up with evidence. The evidence can then be disputed.

I appreciate that when you make things up and parrot dubious sources then this the above does not apply.

Translation please. Or have you just copied and pasted something else from that great source of knowledge.

Translation please. Or have you just copied and pasted something else from that great source of knowledge.

Go to https://translate.google.co.uk/ and select english to stupid that should make it easier for you.

Translation please. Or have you just copied and pasted something else from that great source of knowledge.

Go to https://translate.google.co.uk/ and select english to stupid that should make it easier for you.

Guess that is the sort of answer we should expect from someone who is unable to answer some of the basic points already mentioned. As I am sure you already know, we get a great deal of money from the EU. Could you enlighten us as to where this money comes from, preferably without reference to Wikipedia.

Teresa may isn't the president. Junkers title however IS.

Teresa may doesn't get what she wants all the time. Indeed that's fairly obvious at the moment. She has to win support and indeed legislation is not just proposed by the prime minister.

If we had a president then I suspect like Donald trump, they would be directly elected.

If you want a say in who the next leader of the conservative party is then you could always join them.

Tony the reason you cannot remember Juncker standing in a "Direct" European election is that he never has. The only direct elections he has stood in were for the "Chambers Of Deputies" in Luxembourg.

sorry to spoil your story by bringing facts into it.....

The EPP won 220 out of 751 seats in the Parliament. On 27 June 2014, the European Council officially nominated Juncker for the position, and on 15 July 2014, the European Parliament elected him with a majority of 422 votes from a total of 729 cast.

google Tony Benn..constitutional monarchy.

Exactly he was never an MEP and he was appointed in a process involving less than 800 people which represents a population of over 500,000,000.
Thank you for highlighting the wonders of European Democracy.

On the same basis Teresa may was elected Prime Minister of the UK because 37,718 people in Maidenhead voted for her.

maybe you should think before you assert this nonsense?

Every answer you've given as come from either wki or Google do you have a mind of your own that can think because up to now it doesn't appear you have as you soley rely on the internet to get you answers just to get one up on posters? But you actually just come across as a smart arse who thinks he knows everything and is always right regardless which is a bit like roathy strangely enough ?

Every answer you've given as come from either wki or Google do you have a mind of your own that can think because up to now it doesn't appear you have as you soley rely on the internet to get you answers just to get one up on posters?

Really not sure where you are going with this.

Referencing sources of information is not unusual in grown up discussion.

Okay I will fall for it.....

1. How do you look up the number of votes Teresa May got in the last General Election?
2. Why would you need to make your mind up on how many votes she got?

google Tony Benn..constitutional monarchy.

I really don't think I will

Teresa may isn't the president. Junkers title however IS.

good start, I am with you so far.

Teresa may doesn't get what she wants all the time. Indeed that's fairly obvious at the moment. She has to win support and indeed legislation is not just proposed by the prime minister.

Teresa May does not get what she wants because she did not win a majority in the last General Election.

Jean-Claude Juncker gets what he wants because his policies command support in the European Parliament to which the Commission is accountable.

If we had a president then I suspect like Donald trump, they would be directly elected.

If we had a president then we would not be a Parliamentary Democracy we would be a Presidential Democracy.

If my aunty had balls she would be my uncle.

If you want a say in who the next leader of the conservative party is then you could always join them.

So if I joined the Conservative Party then I would get to appoint the UK Prime Minister?

we get a great deal of money from the EU. Could you enlighten us as to where this money comes from, preferably without reference to Wikipedia.

Is somebody questioning the fact that the UK is a net contributor and Wales is a net beneficiary to the EU? Not me.

Guess that is the sort of answer we should expect from someone who is unable to answer some of the basic points already mentioned.

errrm... your basic points come under the categories of lies, distortions and fake news. I believe I have addressed (called out) every single on of them.

Tony the reason you cannot remember Juncker standing in a "Direct" European election is that he never has. The only direct elections he has stood in were for the "Chambers Of Deputies" in Luxembourg.

In respect of the posts he has held within the EU it has been appointment after appointment, despite being exposed as the man who turned Luxembourg into the European Capital for Corporate Tax Avoidance. The biggest example was McDonalds, who despite having little effective business within the Grand Duchy, recorded profits of £1.8b and paid Corporation tax at just 1.45%, there are loads of other BIG name companies with Amazon and Fiat being examples.

His shady dealings eventually caught up with him and he was forced to resign as Prime Minister of Luxembourg but within weeks he was spending £m's on winning favour amongst MEP's to win an election for the Presidency of the EU Commission. I wonder where the funds for his campaign come from. After being appointed President of the EU Commission there was a motion of censure debated at the EU Parliament regarding his shady tax deals but the motion was defeated.

There is no way any politician could survive in the UK if they had overseen the Corporation Tax avoidance scheme that he was the architect of in Luxembourg, but in the HOME of European Democracy it's OK.

I voted leave in the 2016 referendum and I fully understood what that would entail and if a 2nd referendum is called I WILL 100% vote leave again. It's time for the British people not just to take back control of our laws, our borders and our budgets but MORE importantly to remove ANY influence that the Junckers of this world have on our Country and it's future.

Great post Castle and I agree Europe is a cesspit for corruption and Junker is Chief Pig who has his head firmly lodged in the trough.

You have illustrated my point perfectly. Junker has more than a dodgy past but he is untouchable because he is held to account by his Peers (who all have vested interests) rather than the electorate. That is the definition of undemocratic and if there is a second referendum then like you I will vote to leave and given a choice it will be to leave without a deal because that is the only way to show the EU that finally someone has decided to stand up to them.

Jean-Claude Juncker gets what he wants because his policies command support in the European Parliament to which the Commission is accountable.

Can you give us examples of both Junker's support in the EU Parliament and when last the EU Parliament held the Commission to account?

Guess that is the sort of answer we should expect from someone who is unable to answer some of the basic points already mentioned.

errrm... your basic points come under the categories of lies, distortions and fake news. I believe I have addressed (called out) every single on of them.

Fair play you do seem to be a bit of a specialist in those field's.

Guess that is the sort of answer we should expect from someone who is unable to answer some of the basic points already mentioned.

errrm... your basic points come under the categories of lies, distortions and fake news. I believe I have addressed (called out) every single on of them.

Fair play you do seem to be a bit of a specialist in those field's.

I am guessing the fake news you mention relates to the emergency budget Mr Osborne said would be needed within weeks of the vote to prevent the collapse of our economy. Or the plummeting house prices, or the rampant inflation, the demise of the pound, soaring unemployment. In fact, if the doom merchants were to be believed, voting out virtually meant the end of the world as we know it. Perhaps I am just lucky, but my life goes on pretty much as it did before the vote, and my world did not end, and I predict will not end, just because we are about to leave the old boys gravy train.

Dave,what’s your thoughts on the EU budget/accounts never being signed off.

Guess that is the sort of answer we should expect from someone who is unable to answer some of the basic points already mentioned.

errrm... your basic points come under the categories of lies, distortions and fake news. I believe I have addressed (called out) every single on of them.

Fair play you do seem to be a bit of a specialist in those field's.

I am guessing the fake news you mention relates to the emergency budget Mr Osborne said would be needed within weeks of the vote to prevent the collapse of our economy. Or the plummeting house prices, or the rampant inflation, the demise of the pound, soaring unemployment. In fact, if the doom merchants were to be believed, voting out virtually meant the end of the world as we know it. Perhaps I am just lucky, but my life goes on pretty much as it did before the vote, and my world did not end, and I predict will not end, just because we are about to leave the old boys gravy train.

You forgot the Dutch sperm, we were warned if we leave there will be a shortage of Dutch sperm Remainiacs really do clutch at straws.

Every answer you've given as come from either wki or Google do you have a mind of your own that can think because up to now it doesn't appear you have as you soley rely on the internet to get you answers just to get one up on posters?

Really not sure where you are going with this.

Referencing sources of information is not unusual in grown up discussion.

Referencing Wiki/Net is not accepted as reliable(unless you're in school)...its fake news Dave, and you've been called out on it before.

Make mistakes, but not the same one a second time. We're your friends on here Dave, as we continually tolerate your failures.
Its the kind we are.

Exactly he was never an MEP and he was appointed in a process involving less than 800 people which represents a population of over 500,000,000.
Thank you for highlighting the wonders of European Democracy.

On the same basis Teresa may was elected Prime Minister of the UK because 37,718 people in Maidenhead voted for her.

maybe you should think before you assert this nonsense?

Nonsense ME I'm really hurt but your right about one thing I can be assertive so here is what I think about the inaccurate statement you've made regarding Teresa May.

The 37,718 people who voted for her in the 2017 General Election represented 64.8% of ALL the votes that were counted in the Maidenhead Constituency and as a result she was elected MP for that constituency.Now that statement is factual. There is absolutely NO WAY that the ballot sheets in that election mentioned voting for her to be Prime Minister of the UK, NO WAY. So your assertion that those 37,718 votes got her elected as UK Prime Minister is actually NON FACTUAL, FALSE or like the first day in school TOTAL WANK.

If you want to know how she is UK Prime Minister then google Conservative Party Leadership Elections, Minority Governments or DUP / Confidence and Supply Agreements..

Dave. You can indeed have a say in the prime minister of the UK. If it's a conservative majority. And if you join the party. And if you have been a member long enough.

Alternatively you could join the labour if they win.

Interested in hearing other peoples opinion on this? Seems a lot of politicians and the mainstream media are pushing for this big time now as theresa mays deal looks unlikely going through parliament.

For me it was be an absolout insult to the british people and i think it would be basically living under dictatorship and not a democracy. Would it spark outrage and riots from the people if this happened? Rioting against a dictatorship government who have conned the people would be what is needed and would be great imo. Opinions?

First of all, Leave conned the electorate there's no doubt. Secondly, you seem to want to deny people, who are now more educated on brexit a say on their future, and you think that's democracy? Your argument is absurd. Don't you realise the government can't deliver it without damaging the country?

What nonsense there was no argument for staying in only scaremongering that we don’t know what will happen either

The vote was out that’s what needs to happen plain and simple you can quote hindsight on every single decision you make in your life but you can’t go back and change that original decision no matter how much you want to

The people of this country voted out and that is that

Being part of the EU is not the be all and end all of Britain it won’t be easy but I’d rather our own inept politicians be in control than Juncker and Brussels

Every answer you've given as come from either wki or Google do you have a mind of your own that can think because up to now it doesn't appear you have as you soley rely on the internet to get you answers just to get one up on posters?

Really not sure where you are going with this.

Referencing sources of information is not unusual in grown up discussion.

Referencing Wiki/Net is not accepted as reliable(unless you're in school)...its fake news Dave, and you've been called out on it before.

Make mistakes, but not the same one a second time. We're your friends on here Dave, as we continually tolerate your failures.
Its the kind we are.

Thanks couldn't put it better! Yes we all use wiki/net for info but we unlike our dave (bless him) dont believe everything that is put down on wiki/net ? But Perhaps we are responding to an AI robot and thats why its never wrong and always has an answer because it digs deep into it's memory banks ?

Interested in hearing other peoples opinion on this? Seems a lot of politicians and the mainstream media are pushing for this big time now as theresa mays deal looks unlikely going through parliament.

For me it was be an absolout insult to the british people and i think it would be basically living under dictatorship and not a democracy. Would it spark outrage and riots from the people if this happened? Rioting against a dictatorship government who have conned the people would be what is needed and would be great imo. Opinions?

First of all, Leave conned the electorate there's no doubt. Secondly, you seem to want to deny people, who are now more educated on brexit a say on their future, and you think that's democracy? Your argument is absurd. Don't you realise the government can't deliver it without damaging the country?

What nonsense there was no argument for staying in only scaremongering that we don’t know what will happen either

The vote was out that’s what needs to happen plain and simple you can quote hindsight on every single decision you make in your life but you can’t go back and change that original decision no matter how much you want to

The people of this country voted out and that is that

Being part of the EU is not the be all and end all of Britain it won’t be easy but I’d rather our own inept politicians be in control than Juncker and Brussels

Yep!