Donald Tump, making his mark?

Don't you think that we'd have bigger problems if most of the 3 million Muslims in the UK wanted to kill us?

Christ read that again Owain as it has to be one of the most stupidest things I have ever seen posted on this message board

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of communities that haven't integrated as well as they could/should have, but I don't understand how this is easy to observe. I'm genuinely interested in understanding how this can be observed, and how you would expect these people to integrate.

As far as the integration is concerned, I would say that is more of a general trend with society. Gone are the days where everybody knew everyone else on their street, and would pop in for a cup of tea for example. I don't think that has anything to do with migration, although it could appear that way.

Your point about tolerance is an interesting one, and is completely in line with my own experience. Generally people living in areas with a higher mix of nationalities and religions tend to be a lot more tolerant. The same theme could be seen in the Brexit vote, where certain areas with almost no non-UK nationals were heavily in favour of leaving the EU, despite having no real examples on which to base some of their views, other than the media.

Owain the above post just about sums up your complete lack of understanding about this problem. From your own words it clear shows you are someone who is not touched by the affects of immigration otherwise you wouldn't have to ask the question about it's ease to 'observe'

Some of us live with it and don't have to observe because we feel the effects. How can you say that a school where 20 different languages are spoken is not a bad thing and doesn't impact on your child's education? As someone whose children went through a school like that I can assure you it did have a detrimental affect as the teachers were diverted looking after new arrivals who needed far more attention because they couldn't speak English. That's before we get onto banning Christmas nativity play's and school trips which relied on donations from parents because it was thought insensitive to ask immigrant parents to pay their share.

It really gets on my wick when some liberal lefty lectures those who suffer the most about being tolerant. That's a nice and easy thing to do from a nice comfy suburban home. Just can't wait for the day when the immigrants move into your area.

Charles Koch, One of the big players and funders of Trumps campaign issue a Warning. Good thing adult`s is watching over him..

The Polish foreign minister Wotold Waszzcczzyyyykowsikiii (Sorry, those ZZCCKWWZZZCC,- confuse me..) Defends Trumps decision to deny people from muslim countries access to the US. According to an interview with PolSat, he says " NO COUNTRY HAS OBLIGATIONS TO ACCSEPT REFUGEES". Several of the populistic LEFT WING parties in Europe, has also given their support through the weekend.

DAMN THOSE LEFTIES

The modern day Nazis welcome to the loony left

They need all men on deck, as the last three days have showed..

The modern day Nazis welcome to the loony left

Correct ,they are never happy

The modern day Nazis welcome to the loony left

Correct ,they are never happy

Bullshit. Nothing like a Friday morning, fresh oil on the cooker, and a fresh batch of both fish and chips on the way.. Happy days..

Do you know what, if Trump was female, black, gay or a muslim no fucker would say a word against him but because he's a white, heterosexual male then he's fair game for the leftie brain-dead brigade.

How many of you pricks realise that in 2011 Obama had a 6 month ban on Iraqis going to America.

How many of you realise that Trump has simply used the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 under which any person who may have an affiliation or sympathy with violent extremist groups could be refused entry into the US. All 7 countries involved in the ban come under this banner.

How many of you are aware that if you have an Israeli passport you will be refused entry into 16 countries and some will refuse you if you have an Israeli stamp!

How many of you realise that there are 65 countries with border walls.

How many of you realise that Mexico has built a huge wall on its border with Guatemala as they have a big problem with illegal immigrants.

Just shows what a bunch of ignorant turds all these Trump protestors are.

Stan.. This has been done already.. Keep up..

I'm no leftie.. But you are saying I'm judging Trump on his race, sex and religious beliefs? This is outrageous! I would never do that! I Hold the man on his actions and words!

Do you know what, if Trump was female, black, gay or a muslim no fucker would say a word against him but because he's a white, heterosexual male then he's fair game for the leftie brain-dead brigade.

How many of you pricks realise that in 2011 Obama had a 6 month ban on Iraqis going to America.

How many of you realise that Trump has simply used the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 under which any person who may have an affiliation or sympathy with violent extremist groups could be refused entry into the US. All 7 countries involved in the ban come under this banner.

How many of you are aware that if you have an Israeli passport you will be refused entry into 16 countries and some will refuse you if you have an Israeli stamp!

How many of you realise that there are 65 countries with border walls.

How many of you realise that Mexico has built a huge wall on its border with Guatemala as they have a big problem with illegal immigrants.

Just shows what a bunch of ignorant turds all these Trump protestors are.

Well said

Just for the sake of argument and my own education..
How is it, when u appose something, or a certain moral standard. It is automatically assumed you defend theese despicable standards on the other side of the coin?
For me, it seems extremely unintelligent, like you have no arguments on the topic in hand. A bit like Wez, handpicking tweets and weathermen, without any relevance on what is actually going on. Trump's. Own parties have spoken against him. His beneficials are to. The last of of three democratic in powers, the courts are speaking up against him, the senate is due. His own people are demonstrating in the streets. World leaders are raising up against him. Yet, a few of you keep making the same argument. What about "Jimmy Carter"?? Rest assured, I'm not generalizating, thinking this is "the Welsh way of thinking".. I expect it to be a minority of facicst. But where is the logic?

Just for the sake of argument and my own education..
How is it, when u appose something, or a certain moral standard. It is automatically assumed you defend theese despicable standards on the other side of the coin?
For me, it seems extremely unintelligent, like you have no arguments on the topic in hand. A bit like Wez, handpicking tweets and weathermen, without any relevance on what is actually going on. Trump's. Own parties have spoken against him. His beneficials are to. The last of of three democratic in powers, the courts are speaking up against him, the senate is due. His own people are demonstrating in the streets. World leaders are raising up against him. Yet, a few of you keep making the same argument. What about "Jimmy Carter"?? Rest assured, I'm not generalizating, thinking this is "the Welsh way of thinking".. I expect it to be a minority of facicst. But where is the logic?

Exactly, well said. Not forgetting Trumps adviser, who is now in his cabinet, is a nazi and holacaust denier. Surely that says a lot about trump, his beliefs and morals in itself?

I don't know of it Jim. But his moral fiber is well documented. and convenient forgotten.
Floating around on his dads hard work..

Sir, the majority of people in the US voted against Trump.
I detest Isis as much as the next guy. But I'm not one for generalization, and judging millions of people in need of help - with hatered. Neither am I one for taking anger of own government out on them..

the majority of voters have voted against who ends up winning in many many countries though ,including here.
its something everyone knows can happen for or against and accept before any election. its a desperate arguement after the event and certainly something you dont hear supporters of the winners saying.hypocracy

Sir, the majority of people in the US voted against Trump.
I detest Isis as much as the next guy. But I'm not one for generalization, and judging millions of people in need of help - with hatered. Neither am I one for taking anger of own government out on them..

the majority of voters have voted against who ends up winning in many many countries though ,including here.
its something everyone knows can happen for or against and accept before any election. its a desperate arguement after the event and certainly something you dont hear supporters of the winners saying.hypocracy

No, I see them raising up against the powers of their will. What is the desperation?

Don't you think that we'd have bigger problems if most of the 3 million Muslims in the UK wanted to kill us?

Christ read that again Owain as it has to be one of the most stupidest things I have ever seen posted on this message board

Maybe you misunderstood.

Somebody is suggesting that all muslims want to kill us. That clearly isn't the case is it?

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of communities that haven't integrated as well as they could/should have, but I don't understand how this is easy to observe. I'm genuinely interested in understanding how this can be observed, and how you would expect these people to integrate.

As far as the integration is concerned, I would say that is more of a general trend with society. Gone are the days where everybody knew everyone else on their street, and would pop in for a cup of tea for example. I don't think that has anything to do with migration, although it could appear that way.

Your point about tolerance is an interesting one, and is completely in line with my own experience. Generally people living in areas with a higher mix of nationalities and religions tend to be a lot more tolerant. The same theme could be seen in the Brexit vote, where certain areas with almost no non-UK nationals were heavily in favour of leaving the EU, despite having no real examples on which to base some of their views, other than the media.

Owain the above post just about sums up your complete lack of understanding about this problem. From your own words it clear shows you are someone who is not touched by the affects of immigration otherwise you wouldn't have to ask the question about it's ease to 'observe'

Some of us live with it and don't have to observe because we feel the effects. How can you say that a school where 20 different languages are spoken is not a bad thing and doesn't impact on your child's education? As someone whose children went through a school like that I can assure you it did have a detrimental affect as the teachers were diverted looking after new arrivals who needed far more attention because they couldn't speak English. That's before we get onto banning Christmas nativity play's and school trips which relied on donations from parents because it was thought insensitive to ask immigrant parents to pay their share.

It really gets on my wick when some liberal lefty lectures those who suffer the most about being tolerant. That's a nice and easy thing to do from a nice comfy suburban home. Just can't wait for the day when the immigrants move into your area.

*MYTH ALERT*

Anyway, where exactly was this school with pupils speaking 20 different languages?

Owain the above post just about sums up your complete lack of understanding about this problem. From your own words it clear shows you are someone who is not touched by the affects of immigration otherwise you wouldn't have to ask the question about it's ease to 'observe'

Some of us live with it and don't have to observe because we feel the effects. How can you say that a school where 20 different languages are spoken is not a bad thing and doesn't impact on your child's education? As someone whose children went through a school like that I can assure you it did have a detrimental affect as the teachers were diverted looking after new arrivals who needed far more attention because they couldn't speak English. That's before we get onto banning Christmas nativity play's and school trips which relied on donations from parents because it was thought insensitive to ask immigrant parents to pay their share.

It really gets on my wick when some liberal lefty lectures those who suffer the most about being tolerant. That's a nice and easy thing to do from a nice comfy suburban home. Just can't wait for the day when the immigrants move into your area.

Clearly I don't feel overly impacted by immigration, else we wouldn't be having this argument.

What I struggle to understand is that you've got some people on this thread arguing that they are against immigration because they don't integrate, and at the same time you're arguing because they are.

Firstly, I'm not trying to lecture you, and secondly I live in and have lived in two of the most diverse areas of Cardiff.

Sir, the majority of people in the US voted against Trump.
I detest Isis as much as the next guy. But I'm not one for generalization, and judging millions of people in need of help - with hatered. Neither am I one for taking anger of own government out on them..

the majority of voters have voted against who ends up winning in many many countries though ,including here.
its something everyone knows can happen for or against and accept before any election. its a desperate arguement after the event and certainly something you dont hear supporters of the winners saying.hypocracy

No, I see them raising up against the powers of their will. What is the desperation?

You call for hypocrisy, and this tiny spit is what you got?
If you want to debate on democratic powers, I will start.
First out is the democratic model of George Sabine.
You know, the basis of our modern model. It is about free speech , free will, equality, and every voice in the community having equal powers. Left wing, right wing. Rich or poor. Only, the two basis functions for this to work, is free speech and majority rulings. So when you say, despite the majority voting against trump, they have somehow accepted it? And when he brings Hawoc down on their beleifes, they are hypocrites? Seriously?

Do you think democratic powers end by election dodfound? Why do you think the Senate and Courts have the powers to overrule Trumps decisions? Do you think the powers of free speach and thought end on Election Day? If so, it is very strange Trumps own people are raising against him. And powers made him retract parts of his immigration orders..

I'm no leftie.. But you are saying I'm judging Trump on his race, sex and religious beliefs? This is outrageous! I would never do that! I Hold the man on his actions and words!

So what are those actions and words that make Trump such a bad person in comparison to his predecessors and other world leaders, and that are not for the benefit of his country? Please tell me?

I'm no leftie.. But you are saying I'm judging Trump on his race, sex and religious beliefs? This is outrageous! I would never do that! I Hold the man on his actions and words!

So what are those actions and words that make Trump such a bad person in comparison to his predecessors and other world leaders, and that are not for the benefit of his country? Please tell me?

I allready did, several times. His own people in government and court are arguing him on making it worse...

Sir, the majority of people in the US voted against Trump.
I detest Isis as much as the next guy. But I'm not one for generalization, and judging millions of people in need of help - with hatered. Neither am I one for taking anger of own government out on them..

the majority of voters have voted against who ends up winning in many many countries though ,including here.
its something everyone knows can happen for or against and accept before any election. its a desperate arguement after the event and certainly something you dont hear supporters of the winners saying.hypocracy

No, I see them raising up against the powers of their will. What is the desperation?

You call for hypocrisy, and this tiny spit is what you got?
If you want to debate on democratic powers, I will start.
First out is the democratic model of George Sabine. posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=1882940
You know, the basis of our modern model. It is about free speech , free will, equality, and every voice in the community having equal powers. Left wing, right wing. Rich or poor. Only, the two basis functions for this to work, is free speech and majority rulings. So when you say, despite the majority voting against trump, they have somehow accepted it? And when he brings Hawoc down on their beleifes, they are hypocrites? Seriously?

debate?
were both parties aware soneone could be president with a minority. yes
has it happened before ,and elsewhere in world.yes
would those jawing and protesting have done the same if result the other way ..by a minority vote.no.= hypoctites
you can not debate with anyone whose baseline is not fair ,equal and level.

I honestly believe Islamists are the biggest threat to our way of life since the rise of the National Socialists in the 1930s

Jock - first up just to say you've come across in this thread as intelligent, pragmatic and humble - three character traits that invariably add up to a decent fella.

I wouldn't normally get involved in a thread like this, too big a topic and too much name calling but I'll break cover and offer my thoughts which in some part very much echo your own...

I fully agree with the quote above. Firstly though just for complete clarification not for one second do I believe that all muslims are evil -I've worked with some top lads who are moderate muslims, and they are good family men.

However, I can see how Islam is potentially a very dangerous, oppressive and ultimately fascist ideology, with zero tolerance for other religions which tramples on the human rights of both women and the LGBT community without a second thought and I echo your assertion that are parallels with the German National Socialists in the spread of it as a doctrine and ideology.

The issue as I see it is in the inability to question the message of the Koran.

Whilst, other religious texts can of course be quoted to support similar anti-libertarian beliefs, as far as I understand it (although I am happy to be proven wrong and admittedly only have limited knowledge of the topic) the problem with Islam is that the Koran is claimed to be literally the word of God and the Hadiths and Sunnah essentially detail the life of Mohammed - the perfect incarnation of man.

Therefore, neither can be challenged as they are the perfect interpretation of Allah's law. By this logic, Salafism, is probably the truest interpretation of Islam and is an ideology that his universally at odds with the principals of democracy held within the secular nations Europe.

Additionally, whilst many key religious texts such as the Bible or Torah can contain seemingly contradictory texts, in what is an allegedly more civilised age religious scholars/leaders of such faiths generally will opt for the texts that are more peaceful in nature (e.g A life for a life, an eye for an eye vs. turn the other cheek).

However, due to the Islamic concept of duality and abrogation whereby when two contrasting comments appear in the text the latter (chroologically) supersedes the former such 'cherry-picking' doesn't apply to the Koran - whose ninth (and final chronological chapter relating to non-believers) includes the infamous verse of the sword and numerous commands along the lines of "The "Religion of Truth" (Islam) must prevail, by force if necessary, over all other religions" and "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them" - which is at the heart of the Wahhbist ideology.

Due to the overabundance of political correctness as those on the left desperately move to overcompensate for the distasteful and widespread racism of the 70s we are left in a world where to even question or criticise Islam and some of the highly questionable verses and practices is considered hate-speech and increasingly becoming a criminal act.

Whilst Islam is a recognised world religion, it is in my view more of an ideology in that it is a way of life, and a set of controls for both believers and non believers alike. The Nazi's also had their own religious doctrine which sat at the heart of an ideology as well - should they have been given the blanket of immunity that we afford to Islam in terms of being protected from criticism?

Sadly, whilst acts of Jihadi attacks are the ultimate threat, in my opinion the aggressive approach of far-left liberals in labelling anyone who dares raise concerns over the potential impact that the uncontrolled spread of Islam across Europe as a fascist (irony at it's finest), rascist, xenophobic and intolerant is equally at blame for the increasing number of terrorist attacks and murder of innocent people.

Again to reiterate I do not think all muslims are evil. However, I do certainly fear that the teachings of Islam are more open to an interpretation that leads to terrorist acts than any other major religious doctrine and to leave it go unchallenged - or worse to allow it to flourish to the point where Sharia law is officially accepted in parts of the UK is a very dangerous road to head down - and one which ironically could lead to the abolition of the concepts of liberty and acceptance that allowed it the space to gain a foothold in the first place.

These are indeed very troubling times, and Donald Trump is the least of our problems.

Sir, the majority of people in the US voted against Trump.
I detest Isis as much as the next guy. But I'm not one for generalization, and judging millions of people in need of help - with hatered. Neither am I one for taking anger of own government out on them..

the majority of voters have voted against who ends up winning in many many countries though ,including here.
its something everyone knows can happen for or against and accept before any election. its a desperate arguement after the event and certainly something you dont hear supporters of the winners saying.hypocracy

No, I see them raising up against the powers of their will. What is the desperation?

You call for hypocrisy, and this tiny spit is what you got?
If you want to debate on democratic powers, I will start.
First out is the democratic model of George Sabine. posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=1882940
You know, the basis of our modern model. It is about free speech , free will, equality, and every voice in the community having equal powers. Left wing, right wing. Rich or poor. Only, the two basis functions for this to work, is free speech and majority rulings. So when you say, despite the majority voting against trump, they have somehow accepted it? And when he brings Hawoc down on their beleifes, they are hypocrites? Seriously?

debate?
were both parties aware soneone could be president with a minority. yes
has it happened before ,and elsewhere in world.yes
would those jawing and protesting have done the same if result the other way ..by a minority vote.no.= hypoctites
you can not debate with anyone whose baseline is not fair ,equal and level.

Has nothing to do with anything.. At any time you can speak your rights and mind. You can argue you don't have enough parks to shit in. You can gather a bunch of dogs to a march. Has no relevance in your theory of hypocrisy at all. This is democracy, the very basis of it, and it is a continuum..

Not as much making his mark, as making noise, and now about clothing to. Democratic powers at work

Those criticising Trumps travel ban....can't remember the same condemnation for the Muslim countries that ban Israelis and that's my problem, these cranks who hit the streets every time they don't get their own way, seem very niche and that's what's wrong. They want Trump banned from the UK but stayed silent when crackpots from China, North Korea and the House of Saud were entertained by our MPs, they mobilise to condemn Israel but not to protest ISIS. For them it's not what's right or wrong it's what's (politically) right or left.

Those criticising Trumps travel ban....can't remember the same condemnation for the Muslim countries that ban Israelis and that's my problem, these cranks who hit the streets every time they don't get their own way, seem very niche and that's what's wrong. They want Trump banned from the UK but stayed silent when crackpots from China, North Korea and the House of Saud were entertained by our MPs, they mobilise to condemn Israel but not to protest ISIS. For them it's not what's right or wrong it's what's (politically) right or left.

I see what you're saying, but I think the reason people feel so strongly about trump is 1) because his policies will directly effect us and the rest of the world 2) America seems "closer to home" than china, Saudi Arabia and other countries