Soldier killed in terrorist attack in Woolwich

The young muslims who listen to the hate spread by Abu Hamza and co are just as bad as the young people who believe the rubbish spread by Nick Griffin and co. No different, they are extremists and not wanted.

spot on

[Answer me this then yasser. Why are there now so many disillusioned young british born muslims in this country? Why are they turning to these extremist views in their droves? is it really all down to the internet? I mean, every other minority has the same access to the internet? So why do these extremist views seem to be effecting young muslims more than other ethnic groups? I'm not talking about muslims born outside of this country, but "british born muslims" why are they turning their back on this country? Why are they getting these ideas into their heads of harming other british citizens, why do they hate the soldiers that would gladly put their lives on the line for the freedom of every citizen in this country, no matter what race religion or color? Where is it all coming from? I understand yor point about not taring all muslims.. I wasn't trying to, but the amount of british muslims now turning to extremist views, tells me that a lot of it is being taught from within their own community

Oddballs I think firstly the number is not that great but you get to hear over and over again about them because it makes a shocking news story (notice how we hardly ever see or read about the good news), secondly there is a lot of genuine anger over mostly American foreign policy and unfortunately our Government here has for many years just blindly followed the Americans when it's not necessary. The best example is Iraq and the lies that were told to justify that horrific war, tens of thousands were killed, chemical weapons (Phosphorous) was used, Abu Ghraib (rape and sexual humilitation and torture of thousands of innocent Iraqi detainees), massive bombings of people based on very poor or innaccurate "intelligence", the ongoing civil war in Iraq which is as a direct result of Tony Blair's war etc. Maybe you have forgotten but many people haven't.

The problem here is some misguided young men rather than use their anger in a positive legal way to change things listen to various hate-mongers. These youngsters are usually very ignorant of Islam and they can be manipulated easily by misquoting and misapplying various teaching of Islam by pseudo-"sholars", for example captain hook (I forget his name).
These extremist views are affecting Muslim youth more than other because they feel the injustices (real and perceived) more than youths of other cultures because they feel targetted, so they feel they are getting "revenge" when in reality they are simply murderers. Of course some people are just attracted to violence and will do anything to justify it, but generally I think it is frustration.

I don't think its a question of turning their back on this country, these few misguided youths feel that there is a war against Muslims. Remember this is a relatively new phenomenon and since the end of the cold war the America (or rather elements in America) needed a new enemy.
I repeat again this problem of extreme reaction to acts of injustice (real or percieved) is occuring in the Muslim world as well, so obviously some will be influenced by that.
I think by and large the press and media here are mostly unhelpful and put a very distinct slant on news stories which contribute to the drip drip effect of negative news on Islam and it's very difficult to put alternate views out there, at least on mainstream media. In summary I really do feel that foreign policy is having a much bigger effect over here than the Government wants to admit.

As far as Britain is concerned I hope and pray that with time (and once we finally pull out of Afghanistan) this problem will decrease much like the IRA terrorism however I really fear that America will launch a new war elsewhere and once again our government will rush in British soldiers and this issue will continue and maybe get worse with outbreaks of reaction and counter reaction from these extremist Muslim youths and extremists like EDL until slowly more mainstream people get slowly sucked into it, especially if the economy is in a bad state.

Oddballs The irony is, before I go to bed, that people are on this MB talking about extremist views by Muslims when there are some really extreme views right in front of their very eyes against Muslims!!!!! Just look at some of the views here....you see when people are angry or they percieve injustice by the 'other' , they are blind to their own ugly hatreds and they don't stop to consider how their views appear because in their mind's eye their hatred is justified while the other side's hatred is wrong and due to their "inferior" culture, religion, way of life etc

As I said religion needs to be eradicated.

Religion is nothing but a hinderance on society which does nothing but cause problems. It's holding back the human race.

Oddballs The irony is, before I go to bed, that people are on this MB talking about extremist views by Muslims when there are some really extreme views right in front of their very eyes against Muslims!!!!! Just look at some of the views here....you see when people are angry or they percieve injustice by the 'other' , they are blind to their own ugly hatreds and they don't stop to consider how their views appear because in their mind's eye their hatred is justified while the other side's hatred is wrong and due to their "inferior" culture, religion, way of life etc

Yep, there's a lot of contradictory messages in this thread.

Isn't it strange how this event just 3 weeks ago didn't receive as much coverage http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sm ... ar-1866269

Muslims are the problem in the world. I've been reported to the police because of my comments but i dont give a shit. Muslims are child rapists and terrorists. Islam is a vile religeon.

Oi

Ffs can you confirm you are a muslim.

Bakedalasker you are supposed to be a moderator, no?? Why are you not removing quotes from scum bags like "brighton"??? This case is horiffic enough without idiots like this exploiting it and making it worse and without you giving it your tacit approval.

I'm a Muslim and I'm just as shocked by this act of brutality as you all but some of the reactions here are way over the top and I feel some people who hate Muslims anyway are using this as an excuse to justify and spread their hatred.

Sorry my attention was somewhere else.

[Answer me this then yasser. Why are there now so many disillusioned young british born muslims in this country? Why are they turning to these extremist views in their droves? is it really all down to the internet? I mean, every other minority has the same access to the internet? So why do these extremist views seem to be effecting young muslims more than other ethnic groups? I'm not talking about muslims born outside of this country, but "british born muslims" why are they turning their back on this country? Why are they getting these ideas into their heads of harming other british citizens, why do they hate the soldiers that would gladly put their lives on the line for the freedom of every citizen in this country, no matter what race religion or color? Where is it all coming from? I understand yor point about not taring all muslims.. I wasn't trying to, but the amount of british muslims now turning to extremist views, tells me that a lot of it is being taught from within their own community

Oddballs I think firstly the number is not that great but you get to hear over and over again about them because it makes a shocking news story (notice how we hardly ever see or read about the good news), secondly there is a lot of genuine anger over mostly American foreign policy and unfortunately our Government here has for many years just blindly followed the Americans when it's not necessary. The best example is Iraq and the lies that were told to justify that horrific war, tens of thousands were killed, chemical weapons (Phosphorous) was used, Abu Ghraib (rape and sexual humilitation and torture of thousands of innocent Iraqi detainees), massive bombings of people based on very poor or innaccurate "intelligence", the ongoing civil war in Iraq which is as a direct result of Tony Blair's war etc. Maybe you have forgotten but many people haven't.

The problem here is some misguided young men rather than use their anger in a positive legal way to change things listen to various hate-mongers. These youngsters are usually very ignorant of Islam and they can be manipulated easily by misquoting and misapplying various teaching of Islam by pseudo-"sholars", for example captain hook (I forget his name).
These extremist views are affecting Muslim youth more than other because they feel the injustices (real and perceived) more than youths of other cultures because they feel targetted, so they feel they are getting "revenge" when in reality they are simply murderers. Of course some people are just attracted to violence and will do anything to justify it, but generally I think it is frustration.

I don't think its a question of turning their back on this country, these few misguided youths feel that there is a war against Muslims. Remember this is a relatively new phenomenon and since the end of the cold war the America (or rather elements in America) needed a new enemy.
I repeat again this problem of extreme reaction to acts of injustice (real or percieved) is occuring in the Muslim world as well, so obviously some will be influenced by that.
I think by and large the press and media here are mostly unhelpful and put a very distinct slant on news stories which contribute to the drip drip effect of negative news on Islam and it's very difficult to put alternate views out there, at least on mainstream media. In summary I really do feel that foreign policy is having a much bigger effect over here than the Government wants to admit.

As far as Britain is concerned I hope and pray that with time (and once we finally pull out of Afghanistan) this problem will decrease much like the IRA terrorism however I really fear that America will launch a new war elsewhere and once again our government will rush in British soldiers and this issue will continue and maybe get worse with outbreaks of reaction and counter reaction from these extremist Muslim youths and extremists like EDL until slowly more mainstream people get slowly sucked into it, especially if the economy is in a bad state.

Some valid points here.

I agree we should not be getting involved in any conflicts in any muslim countries & that means no military aid as well like this present goverment advocates for Syria.

But it is about time the muslim community took responsibility for the actions of some lunatics, their has been countless programmes/recordings of what is preached in some mosques & the British Muslim council do nothing to eradicate it.

But if muslims are unhappy with the foreign policies of a democratically elected goverment, maybe they should relocate to a muslim country of their choice

[Answer me this then yasser. Why are there now so many disillusioned young british born muslims in this country? Why are they turning to these extremist views in their droves? is it really all down to the internet? I mean, every other minority has the same access to the internet? So why do these extremist views seem to be effecting young muslims more than other ethnic groups? I'm not talking about muslims born outside of this country, but "british born muslims" why are they turning their back on this country? Why are they getting these ideas into their heads of harming other british citizens, why do they hate the soldiers that would gladly put their lives on the line for the freedom of every citizen in this country, no matter what race religion or color? Where is it all coming from? I understand yor point about not taring all muslims.. I wasn't trying to, but the amount of british muslims now turning to extremist views, tells me that a lot of it is being taught from within their own community

Oddballs I think firstly the number is not that great but you get to hear over and over again about them because it makes a shocking news story (notice how we hardly ever see or read about the good news), secondly there is a lot of genuine anger over mostly American foreign policy and unfortunately our Government here has for many years just blindly followed the Americans when it's not necessary. The best example is Iraq and the lies that were told to justify that horrific war, tens of thousands were killed, chemical weapons (Phosphorous) was used, Abu Ghraib (rape and sexual humilitation and torture of thousands of innocent Iraqi detainees), massive bombings of people based on very poor or innaccurate "intelligence", the ongoing civil war in Iraq which is as a direct result of Tony Blair's war etc. Maybe you have forgotten but many people haven't.

The problem here is some misguided young men rather than use their anger in a positive legal way to change things listen to various hate-mongers. These youngsters are usually very ignorant of Islam and they can be manipulated easily by misquoting and misapplying various teaching of Islam by pseudo-"sholars", for example captain hook (I forget his name).
These extremist views are affecting Muslim youth more than other because they feel the injustices (real and perceived) more than youths of other cultures because they feel targetted, so they feel they are getting "revenge" when in reality they are simply murderers. Of course some people are just attracted to violence and will do anything to justify it, but generally I think it is frustration.

I don't think its a question of turning their back on this country, these few misguided youths feel that there is a war against Muslims. Remember this is a relatively new phenomenon and since the end of the cold war the America (or rather elements in America) needed a new enemy.
I repeat again this problem of extreme reaction to acts of injustice (real or percieved) is occuring in the Muslim world as well, so obviously some will be influenced by that.
I think by and large the press and media here are mostly unhelpful and put a very distinct slant on news stories which contribute to the drip drip effect of negative news on Islam and it's very difficult to put alternate views out there, at least on mainstream media. In summary I really do feel that foreign policy is having a much bigger effect over here than the Government wants to admit.

As far as Britain is concerned I hope and pray that with time (and once we finally pull out of Afghanistan) this problem will decrease much like the IRA terrorism however I really fear that America will launch a new war elsewhere and once again our government will rush in British soldiers and this issue will continue and maybe get worse with outbreaks of reaction and counter reaction from these extremist Muslim youths and extremists like EDL until slowly more mainstream people get slowly sucked into it, especially if the economy is in a bad state.

Some valid points here.

I agree we should not be getting involved in any conflicts in any muslim countries & that means no military aid as well like this present goverment advocates for Syria.

But it is about time the muslim community took responsibility for the actions of some lunatics, their has been countless programmes/recordings of what is preached in some mosques & the British Muslim council do nothing to eradicate it.

But if muslims are unhappy with the foreign policies of a democratically elected goverment, maybe they should relocate to a muslim country of their choice

I don't understand why we allow such extremists to march on our streets wishing our soldiers dead or why our muslim community don't oppose such protests. It feels like we have a constitution in place that is preventing both parties stopping these idiots.

My option is the best option.

My option is the best option.

Talk sense

If America started a new war elsewhere there is no doubt we will be involved, our government have no back bone and rims Americas bum.

If America started a new war elsewhere there is no doubt we will be involved, our government have no back bone and rims Americas bum.

Sadly, the blue touch paper has been touched, a long time ago.
There will be fireworks over this.

This is a type of event that could snowball. I don't believe we should be in Iraq or Afgan etc, its not our country. If they want to kill themselves let them continue. That's just my view, because British lives get killed IMO for no reason.

Reading what happened made me really angry and im pretty passive, but i thought "What about the people who are not so passive, surely they will want revenge?"

I wont be surprised if i hear today that some where a mosque will be set on fire, or a gang has beaten some Muslims etc to death.

Then of course, they want to retaliate.

They say not all Muslims should be tarred with the same brush, but why don't they out the bad ones then?

How can they out the bad ones? No-one knows if their an extremist or not unless they carry out something like what happened yesterday.

Yes im sure one day they just wake up and do something like this

Extremists could easily go to the mosque and pray etc and just act like a peaceful Muslim.

Some extremists don't go putting out what their going to do out in the open.

Extremists could easily go to the mosque and pray etc and just act like a peaceful Muslim.

Some extremists don't go putting out what their going to do out in the open.

The warning signs would more than likely be their though, if yor brother father started acting strange, views on things started to change, even if it was a slow process, surely you would start asking questions. Gota be hard to keep extremist views to yorself from the people closet to you surely. That's why they are called "EXTREME" views.

Extremists could easily go to the mosque and pray etc and just act like a peaceful Muslim.

Some extremists don't go putting out what their going to do out in the open.

The warning signs would more than likely be their though, if yor brother father started acting strange, views on things started to change, even if it was a slow process, surely you would start asking questions. Gota be hard to keep extremist views to yorself from the people closet to you surely. That's why they are called "EXTREME" views.

See what your trying to say but they can't out the bad ones as there are so many Muslims over the UK.

How can they out the bad ones? No-one knows if their an extremist or not unless they carry out something like what happened yesterday.

Of course they know. You do not become an extremist over night. There are people in these mosques spreading the lies, and then in many cases bullying the people into committing the atrocities. Who organises the marches in the streets of Luton? Why are their faces hidden? Their communities protect them, then claim afterwards they were radicalised by extremists. Well why not root out the extremists? I am sure that if the mosques were attacked , "innocent" muslims were made to suffer, then they would soon point out the trouble makers.

What happened yesterday saddenend and disgusted me. It was pre-meditated murder used to try and bring attention to a percieved belief that followers of a certain religion, this time Islam, suffer daily at the hands of others.

These scum, because that is what thet are, need to know that there actions will not suddenly turn neighbour against neigbour or indeed friend against friend, we need to stand together to show them that they cannot and will not win.

The Government has to play its part and by that I mean they should introduce the death penalty for these and other such acts.
What we saw yesterday needs no long drawn out court case where these people yet again get a chance to spout teir crap and where someome will always try to defend their actions. If people like this want to declare war on the people of Britain, whatever race/religion etc, let us help them on there way to become a martyr for their cause. People may argue that this will create further attacks but hey at the moment it seems that if these people get caught/convisted they then have their every whim catered for.

A dead terrorist, of whatever faction, is still dead and cannot do it again.

It is about time the people of the UK said "enough is eneough" and the politicians need to listen before people overreact and cause greater problems.

Rant over but finally want to send hearfelt condolences to family/friends of the soldier

I don't understand why we allow such extremists to march on our streets wishing our soldiers dead or why our muslim community don't oppose such protests. It feels like we have a constitution in place that is preventing both parties stopping these idiots.

They do. Blame the government for lack of deportations. If we were out of the EU knob jockey's like Hamza would be avoiding getting assassinated back home where they are also hated but instead they are allowed to freely walk around our country, manipulating people and spreading hate.

The Islamic community does a lot to try and stop hate and so forth but there are always going to be separate groups because the government refuses to grow a backbone and do something about it. Its easy to blame particular groups but they do speak out and have done so in relation to this latest incident. They have condemned these attacks but the government as always will just say its 'SHOCKING' and then carry on because they dont care about us at all. All they care about is money and that is why the Police Force is now pretty much a Collection Revenue Service.

Its one of the reasons I am a UKIP supporter. The sooner we are out of the EU and not being dictated to the better. There are Muslim members in UKIP who want out of the EU as well. People forget that sick bastards like Hamza are a threat to the children of British Muslims. Its those children manipulative extremists like him want to take in and spread hate to and brainwash to carry out their sickening acts of violence. These are not acts of Islam.

I understand the frustration but surely you agree we should be channelling all of this towards the real root cause than aimlessly at a whole sect of society?

How can they out the bad ones? No-one knows if their an extremist or not unless they carry out something like what happened yesterday.

Of course they know. You do not become an extremist over night. There are people in these mosques spreading the lies, and then in many cases bullying the people into committing the atrocities. Who organises the marches in the streets of Luton? Why are their faces hidden? Their communities protect them, then claim afterwards they were radicalised by extremists. Well why not root out the extremists? I am sure that if the mosques were attacked , "innocent" muslims were made to suffer, then they would soon point out the trouble makers.

If Cardiff City football club was doing something bad would you turn against the club or try and get it solved behind closed doors? The Muslim community lives in fear and thats the worst thing. There are extremists within manipulating and bullying children into thinking the wrong things and violently interpreting Islam. There are racists who brand all of Islam as bad.

Peaceful Muslims really cannot win. If they stand up they fear threats from extremist groups for being turncoats and they then may be directly targeted by these extremist groups. If they dont stand up the rest of the British population claim they do nothing and are allowing it to happen.

I don't understand why we allow such extremists to march on our streets wishing our soldiers dead or why our muslim community don't oppose such protests. It feels like we have a constitution in place that is preventing both parties stopping these idiots.

They do. Blame the government for lack of deportations. If we were out of the EU knob jockey's like Hamza would be avoiding getting assassinated back home where they are also hated but instead they are allowed to freely walk around our country, manipulating people and spreading hate.

The Islamic community does a lot to try and stop hate and so forth but there are always going to be separate groups because the government refuses to grow a backbone and do something about it. Its easy to blame particular groups but they do speak out and have done so in relation to this latest incident. They have condemned these attacks but the government as always will just say its 'SHOCKING' and then carry on because they dont care about us at all. All they care about is money and that is why the Police Force is now pretty much a Collection Revenue Service.

Its one of the reasons I am a UKIP supporter. The sooner we are out of the EU and not being dictated to the better. There are Muslim members in UKIP who want out of the EU as well. People forget that sick bastards like Hamza are a threat to the children of British Muslims. Its those children manipulative extremists like him want to take in and spread hate to and brainwash to carry out their sickening acts of violence. These are not acts of Islam.

I understand the frustration but surely you agree we should be channelling all of this towards the real root cause than aimlessly at a whole sect of society?

The human rights act isnt a solid law, if the government wanted to, they could deport them anyway.

lets hope its not race related...

You serious of coarse it was he was a british soldier

when i posted this quote early afternoon we didnt know much of the incident and didnt want to speculate.. it was always more than likely the outcome, but at the time i didnt want to post what at the time would have been pure speculation..

R.I.P lee rigby, father of a 2 year old child and a brave man who put his life on the line serving 2 tours in afghanistan. Thoughts go out to his family

How can they out the bad ones? No-one knows if their an extremist or not unless they carry out something like what happened yesterday.

Of course they know. You do not become an extremist over night. There are people in these mosques spreading the lies, and then in many cases bullying the people into committing the atrocities. Who organises the marches in the streets of Luton? Why are their faces hidden? Their communities protect them, then claim afterwards they were radicalised by extremists. Well why not root out the extremists? I am sure that if the mosques were attacked , "innocent" muslims were made to suffer, then they would soon point out the trouble makers.

Some like to keep their views behind closed doors.

A man came out on the news tonight and said he was surprised as he was a peaceful (the one who killed the Solider) and he attended University, basically was supposedly a peace Muslim even to the Muslim community who knew him.

Yes im sure one day they just wake up and do something like this

Even people who knew the killers have came out and said they are shocked because he was just a normal Muslim.

As I said religion needs to be eradicated.

Religion is nothing but a hinderance on society which does nothing but cause problems. It's holding back the human race.

Understand your viewpoint totally but you have to remember religion also keeps some on the straight and narrow, a sense of direction per se. We must not forget or turn a blind eye to this. Religion is like any tool, it can be used for good or for bad. The key is education. The simple thing is not enough people are being educated and this is a problem of the governments.

Not enough people are being educated on such matters. School children are still learning about christianity, judaism but not about Islam. If you do not know about it you do not understand it or know what its real teachings are. Im not saying all kids should be brought up as Muslims but they should know what it represents at least from GCSE level onwards.

I know that they still dont teach it as my nephew came over yesterday and mentioned the Woolwich incident and he said a few thing borderline racist things through naivety and lack of understanding - understandable to a degree with kids considering the anguish and circumstances - and I asked him 'do they teach you about Islam at school in RE?' and he said 'no'.

I think thats a disgrace from the British government. If you are going to allow mass immigration into Britain then not only should the immigrants be fully educated to understand their commitment upon moving but British should also to a certain level have an understanding of their culture. Only then can the fusion take place. If riots kick off and blood is spilt then as Polo said in another thread the government has this on them. Its their failings and no one else's.

Lack of education and lack of commitment to key aspects of education is a massive failing of the government. Rather than teach kids about budgeting, loans, integration, culture, how to get on in life basically and the main principles they're teaching kids a lot of unneeded skills far too early. If a kid wants to learn that stuff they will go to college and then university and specialise in that particular field. For example, IT only just changing to Computing in England is another fail that Scandinavian countries implemented years and years ago and why you have 9 year olds programming.

Its mad but true. The government will be happy for us to turn upon one another in the streets and shed blood because they will then make us look like the bad guys when in reality it is all down to their failings.

My option is the best option.

Talk sense

I did. Outlaw religion.