RELIGION?

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

and thats fine. I have faith and believe that God exists.

however if you are looking for answers to questions from a religion mocking it isnt the best way to go about it.

I respect the alien theory there are many arguments to support it however I like the God idea.

As is your right of course. Personally I require more proof than supposed writings from 2000 years ago.

Religion is outdated, it was created to explain to people for their existence and hope for something to happen to them after they die. the problem with religion is there is always questions which cannot be answered which can be positive for some and negative for others.

The question 'Is there a God' will probably never get a correct answer. we can all argue day and night but we won't get an definitive answer.

Personally with the advances in science and the lack of evidence of there being a God I believe there isn't a God

But that is my personal belief, I was raised as a catholic but I have based my feelings on evidence (Or lack of in religion's case )

86% of this world follow a religion so it's a bit presumptious to call it 'outdated'?

If that's why it was 'created' then what is real cause of our existence?

Which advances in Science go against God?

The first part of my post i meant is regarding the teachings of the church, which i didn't make clear (My bad)

There is no real knowledge for our existence only theories (religion being one of them). our existence can be by pure coincidence. there is no definite answer yet. And if answered then that answer will then be questioned

My personal view on science is that it isn't trying to disprove God but more to seek out the answers of the how the universe came to be and how we came to exist.

I'm just basing my opinion on the evidence which I have been presented to me

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

The existence of laws of logic? The existence of morality? The fact that there are no other decent theory for the origin of the universe? (Ockham's Razor?)

Those are just a few.

I'm off to bed now, nice chatting all, enjoyed this debate!

We will pick it up in the morning

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

its not about proof.

prove this, disprove that. credit this, discredit that.

one problem religion, any of them Christianity, Judaism, Islam all the other quirky new religions are not sciences.

religion is an ideology, teachings, morals and ways of living your life based on an idea. it neither requires proof or credibility all it requires is faith a concept that cannot be proven yet it exists. People have faith in all sorts of things, faith in the police, the military, family.

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

its not about proof.

prove this, disprove that. credit this, discredit that.

one problem religion, any of them Christianity, Judaism, Islam all the other quirky new religions are not sciences.

religion is an ideology, teachings, morals and ways of living your life based on an idea. it neither requires proof or credibility all it requires is faith a concept that cannot be proven yet it exists. People have faith in all sorts of things, faith in the police, the military, family.

For me it is about proof.

You're saying that Jesus was the Son of God and everything that came with it and basing the ideology on this.

In order to accept that ideology, I require proof that the basis for this is true.

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

its not about proof.

prove this, disprove that. credit this, discredit that.

one problem religion, any of them Christianity, Judaism, Islam all the other quirky new religions are not sciences.

religion is an ideology, teachings, morals and ways of living your life based on an idea. it neither requires proof or credibility all it requires is faith a concept that cannot be proven yet it exists. People have faith in all sorts of things, faith in the police, the military, family.

That is one of the problems with religion though that it seems to be the only thing that some people think that cannot be questioned. We are aloud to question politics, science, education etc but religion is in its own divine right not to be

Are you lot still arguing about religion?

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

its not about proof.

prove this, disprove that. credit this, discredit that.

one problem religion, any of them Christianity, Judaism, Islam all the other quirky new religions are not sciences.

religion is an ideology, teachings, morals and ways of living your life based on an idea. it neither requires proof or credibility all it requires is faith a concept that cannot be proven yet it exists. People have faith in all sorts of things, faith in the police, the military, family.

For me it is about proof.

You're saying that Jesus was the Son of God and everything that came with it and basing the ideology on this.

In order to accept that ideology, I require proof that the basis for this is true.

yes I say that Jesus is the Son of God, its an idea and based on that idea I have my religious beliefs and my way of life.

I require no proof because an ideology doesnt require any.

A soldier goes to war on the basis that his/her country is doing the right thing, that is a military ideology, soldiers cannot prove or disprove that their countries actions are either right or wrong, they have faith in their country, the same way as I have faith in God.

Your request for proof is not consistent with the concept of an ideology, however if thats what you require I will wish you luck in your pursuit for the truth. I assume you are pursuing the truth otherwise you wouldnt attack people of religious conviction alone, or have I missed all your posts requesting athiests prove that God does not exist?

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

its not about proof.

prove this, disprove that. credit this, discredit that.

one problem religion, any of them Christianity, Judaism, Islam all the other quirky new religions are not sciences.

religion is an ideology, teachings, morals and ways of living your life based on an idea. it neither requires proof or credibility all it requires is faith a concept that cannot be proven yet it exists. People have faith in all sorts of things, faith in the police, the military, family.

That is one of the problems with religion though that it seems to be the only thing that some people think that cannot be questioned. We are aloud to question politics, science, education etc but religion is in its own divine right not to be

no not at all you can question religion until the cows come home, ask questions by all means blind faith is a dangerous thing.

when I was in the Navy and we went to war with Iraq I asked my priest some very difficult questions.

I would say ask the right questions, if you do not believe that God exists be respectful of the fact that the person your asking questions does believe God exists. If you ask why people do the things they do they will give you the answer and explain the in and outs. Though if you keep asking the question why? you will eventually go to the common denominator because God said or its what the bible teaches.

When I speak to an atheist and keep asking why the common denominator is that its science that hasnt been proven or we havent got the intellect to process that. A religious person would never say God doesnt exist the same as an Atheist would never say God does exist

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

The existence of laws of logic? The existence of morality? The fact that there are no other decent theory for the origin of the universe? (Ockham's Razor?)

Those are just a few.

How does any of that prove that God exists?

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

The existence of laws of logic? The existence of morality? The fact that there are no other decent theory for the origin of the universe? (Ockham's Razor?)

Those are just a few.

How does any of that prove that God exists?

What about the existence of Isreal in accordance to the scriptures?

Why do you have to go after religion? It gives people comfort; it doesn't hurt anything." Okay, well, other than most wars, the Crusades, the Inquisition, 9/11, arranged marriages to minors, blowing up girls' schools, the suppression of women and homosexuals, fatwas, ethnic cleansing, honor rape, human sacrifice, burning witches, suicide bombings, condoning slavery, and the systematic f*cking of children, there's a few little things I have a problem with

Each to their own

Religion is a means of controlling the masses.
Making individuals believe that a god is watching them at all times, and controlling their conscience.
Here endeth the lesson.

Religion has been used (abused) by power hungry people, but at it's heart, I'm not sure that religion is a construct borne out of a desire to control the masses,i believe most individual humans have a natural biological need to make sense of the world and their place in it, you could argue that need is gods work, either way, A society bereft of religion is a poor one, as we are seeing in secular britain today with almost all our major institutions being embroilled in scandal. The question should be....Is religion for the best?

Why do you have to go after religion? It gives people comfort; it doesn't hurt anything." Okay, well, other than most wars, the Crusades, the Inquisition, 9/11, arranged marriages to minors, blowing up girls' schools, the suppression of women and homosexuals, fatwas, ethnic cleansing, honor rape, human sacrifice, burning witches, suicide bombings, condoning slavery, and the systematic f*cking of children, there's a few little things I have a problem with

If you honestly believe all those atrocities are caused by religion and not mans capacity to self destruct then i think you really ought to have a deeper look at human beings, observe how religious individuals conduct themselves. I don't remember Joe Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pott, ever espousing religious views. And what about the the nastiness in mid staffs NHS trust, journalists hacking the phone of murdered children, MPs exspenses , Are these your poster boys for modern atheism?

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

The existence of laws of logic? The existence of morality? The fact that there are no other decent theory for the origin of the universe? (Ockham's Razor?)

Those are just a few.

How does any of that prove that God exists?

Because God is the only possible cause.

I cant prove aliens exist, I cant prove God exists on the same not I can neither prove that he doesnt exist.

My point exactly, there is no proof of anything of this ilk.

That's why I'm firmly in the camp of "I don't know".

We've given you plenty yet you simply choose to bypass it, which is your own decision and I respect that.

You haven't given proof of anything other than writings supposedly from 2000 years ago. My standards of "proof" are higher than that.

its not about proof.

prove this, disprove that. credit this, discredit that.

one problem religion, any of them Christianity, Judaism, Islam all the other quirky new religions are not sciences.

religion is an ideology, teachings, morals and ways of living your life based on an idea. it neither requires proof or credibility all it requires is faith a concept that cannot be proven yet it exists. People have faith in all sorts of things, faith in the police, the military, family.

That is one of the problems with religion though that it seems to be the only thing that some people think that cannot be questioned. We are aloud to question politics, science, education etc but religion is in its own divine right not to be

I don't mind people questioning, I quite enjoy the back and forth. What I dislike is people hating and being very unreasonable about it. I despise the works of people such as Dawkins and the National Secular Society because they just hate on religion for their own selfish egotistical purposes.

The one time Dawkins agreed to debate a serious, intellectual Christian. John Lennox made him look very silly indeed.

Why do you have to go after religion? It gives people comfort; it doesn't hurt anything." Okay, well, other than most wars, the Crusades, the Inquisition, 9/11, arranged marriages to minors, blowing up girls' schools, the suppression of women and homosexuals, fatwas, ethnic cleansing, honor rape, human sacrifice, burning witches, suicide bombings, condoning slavery, and the systematic f*cking of children, there's a few little things I have a problem with

I agree with the posters above response to this.

Surely us Cardiff fans should be more sensitive when it comes to stereotypes given that we are often accused of being thugs just because of a small idiotic minority, some of which never supported the team but only came for the fights. In religion, these people never really followed their beliefs in what they did. If they did, these things wouldn't have happened.

What about the existence of Isreal in accordance to the scriptures?

What about it?

What about the existence of Isreal in accordance to the scriptures?

What about it?

Golly surprise with this reply.

Go and purchase "Battle for Isreal" by Lance Lambert.

There was another book worth a read on the same subject but cannot remember its title. It was by an author called Derek Pringle I think. An individual who spent time in Isreal during its many wars. Interesting reads.

What about the existence of Isreal in accordance to the scriptures?

What about it?

Golly surprise with this reply.

Go and purchase "Battle for Isreal" by Lance Lambert.

There was another book worth a read on the same subject but cannot remember its title. It was by an author called Derek Pringle I think. An individual who spent time in Isreal during its many wars. Interesting reads.

Just tell us the crux of the book in relation to this thread, after all you brought it up ffs

Why do you have to go after religion? It gives people comfort; it doesn't hurt anything." Okay, well, other than most wars, the Crusades, the Inquisition, 9/11, arranged marriages to minors, blowing up girls' schools, the suppression of women and homosexuals, fatwas, ethnic cleansing, honor rape, human sacrifice, burning witches, suicide bombings, condoning slavery, and the systematic f*cking of children, there's a few little things I have a problem with

If you honestly believe all those atrocities are caused by religion and not mans capacity to self destruct then i think you really ought to have a deeper look at human beings, observe how religious individuals conduct themselves. I don't remember Joe Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pott, ever espousing religious views. And what about the the nastiness in mid staffs NHS trust, journalists hacking the phone of murdered children, MPs exspenses , Are these your poster boys for modern atheism?

Although the above list is actually a quote from Bill Maher, those events were all certainly caused by religion. Some are still on going, such as the suppression of women, institutionalised paedophilia, and the vilification of homosexuals for example, whereas others serve as horrific reminders of the potency of religious doctrine.

The 'Hitler was an Atheist' line is an absolute classic and always makes me laugh (and cringe).

How come in the first chapter of 'Mein Kampf' Hitler says he is 'doing god's word' and 'executing god's will' by destroying the Jewish people?

How come the oath that every Nazi soldier had to take, began with 'I swear in the name of almighty god my loyalty to the Fuhrer'?

How come on the belt buckle of every Nazi soldier were the words 'God on our side'?

Furthermore, the first treaty made by the Nazi's was with the Vatican. Allowing Catholic control of German education.

Worst of all, the Catholic Church celebrated the birth of the Fuhrer every year until his death in 1945.

Let me move on to your other examples.

May I ask, what the bloody hell does phone-hacking, the NHS and the expenses scandal have to do with religious belief? These events involved both religious and non-religious people! Are you suggesting that those events somehow represent atheism?

You are a confused individual with ludicrous and muddled arguments.

Same old arguments...

How come in the first chapter of 'Mein Kampf' Hitler says he is 'doing god's word' and 'executing god's will' by destroying the Jewish people?

How come the oath that every Nazi soldier had to take, began with 'I swear in the name of almighty god my loyalty to the Fuhrer'?

How come on the belt buckle of every Nazi soldier were the words 'God on our side'?

Hitler wrote this book in the 1920s and was trying to appeal to the large Catholic population of Germany. He quickly began persecuting the Catholic Church once in dominant power. Mein Kampf never says anything about destroying Jews either, it might be derogatory about them but it doesn't go that far. The other acts I have never heard of before but likely were to gain Catholic support also. I bet they weren't done as fiercely once the persecution of the Church began.

Furthermore, the first treaty made by the Nazi's was with the Vatican. Allowing Catholic control of German education.

A treaty they very quickly broke.

Worst of all, the Catholic Church celebrated the birth of the Fuhrer every year until his death in 1945.

Evidence? Pretty sure they weren't a fan (if they ever were) once he began throwing Bishops in Concentration Camps.

May I ask, what the bloody hell does phone-hacking, the NHS and the expenses scandal have to do with religious belief? These events involved both religious and non-religious people! Are you suggesting that those events somehow represent atheism?

You are missing the point, the other posters state how all this immorality is down to religion, yet there is whole world of stuff that isn't from religion.

Why do you have to go after religion? It gives people comfort; it doesn't hurt anything." Okay, well, other than most wars, the Crusades, the Inquisition, 9/11, arranged marriages to minors, blowing up girls' schools, the suppression of women and homosexuals, fatwas, ethnic cleansing, honor rape, human sacrifice, burning witches, suicide bombings, condoning slavery, and the systematic f*cking of children, there's a few little things I have a problem with

If you honestly believe all those atrocities are caused by religion and not mans capacity to self destruct then i think you really ought to have a deeper look at human beings, observe how religious individuals conduct themselves. I don't remember Joe Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pott, ever espousing religious views. And what about the the nastiness in mid staffs NHS trust, journalists hacking the phone of murdered children, MPs exspenses , Are these your poster boys for modern atheism?

Although the above list is actually a quote from Bill Maher, those events were all certainly caused by religion. Some are still on going, such as the suppression of women, institutionalised paedophilia, and the vilification of homosexuals for example, whereas others serve as horrific reminders of the potency of religious doctrine.

The 'Hitler was an Atheist' line is an absolute classic and always makes me laugh (and cringe).

How come in the first chapter of 'Mein Kampf' Hitler says he is 'doing god's word' and 'executing god's will' by destroying the Jewish people?

How come the oath that every Nazi soldier had to take, began with 'I swear in the name of almighty god my loyalty to the Fuhrer'?

How come on the belt buckle of every Nazi soldier were the words 'God on our side'?

Furthermore, the first treaty made by the Nazi's was with the Vatican. Allowing Catholic control of German education.

Worst of all, the Catholic Church celebrated the birth of the Fuhrer every year until his death in 1945.

Let me move on to your other examples.

May I ask, what the bloody hell does phone-hacking, the NHS and the expenses scandal have to do with religious belief? These events involved both religious and non-religious people! Are you suggesting that those events somehow represent atheism?

You are a confused individual with ludicrous and muddled arguments.

I am not a fan of "organized religion" as well. Implying Christians today share the blame for the Crusades and Hitler's atrocities is pathetic.

Same old arguments...

How come in the first chapter of 'Mein Kampf' Hitler says he is 'doing god's word' and 'executing god's will' by destroying the Jewish people?

How come the oath that every Nazi soldier had to take, began with 'I swear in the name of almighty god my loyalty to the Fuhrer'?

How come on the belt buckle of every Nazi soldier were the words 'God on our side'?

Hitler wrote this book in the 1920s and was trying to appeal to the large Catholic population of Germany. He quickly began persecuting the Catholic Church once in dominant power. Mein Kampf never says anything about destroying Jews either, it might be derogatory about them but it doesn't go that far. The other acts I have never heard of before but likely were to gain Catholic support also. I bet they weren't done as fiercely once the persecution of the Church began.

Furthermore, the first treaty made by the Nazi's was with the Vatican. Allowing Catholic control of German education.

A treaty they very quickly broke.

Worst of all, the Catholic Church celebrated the birth of the Fuhrer every year until his death in 1945.

Evidence? Pretty sure they weren't a fan (if they ever were) once he began throwing Bishops in Concentration Camps.

May I ask, what the bloody hell does phone-hacking, the NHS and the expenses scandal have to do with religious belief? These events involved both religious and non-religious people! Are you suggesting that those events somehow represent atheism?

You are missing the point, the other posters state how all this immorality is down to religion, yet there is whole world of stuff that isn't from religion.

Good post, i have not read mein kampf, but i know that Hitler didn't use monotheism directly and to my knowledge was not a devoutly religious man, The reference to 'god' on nazi insignia is vague, as god can take many forms, hardly a stick to beat the bible with, unless the bible teaches facism.
How do you know the catholic church did not temper Hitlers aggresion as part of a deal? If a deal was indeed struck it was probably done reluctantly, What else could organised religion do in the face of a murdering tyrant?

The phone hacking and everything else is evidence of amoral vacum mate, we have never been more atheist, so yesi'm blamming atheism for this mess, what do you think is the reason?

What about the existence of Isreal in accordance to the scriptures?

What about it?

Golly surprise with this reply.

Go and purchase "Battle for Isreal" by Lance Lambert.

There was another book worth a read on the same subject but cannot remember its title. It was by an author called Derek Pringle I think. An individual who spent time in Isreal during its many wars. Interesting reads.

Just tell us the crux of the book in relation to this thread, after all you brought it up ffs

Try saying please then FFS.