Gay Marriage - Yes or No poll

Lots of closet benders in this thread

Not doing yourself any favours with that kind of comment Craig. No respect at all for someone else's view.

I don't necessarily agree with his view but the best anti-same sex marriage argument so far has come from JONNY012697. I can understand someone not wanting their church or religious institution to offer same sex marriage but I still can't understand why so many people were against the introduction of this bill which clearly states that it will now be legal for same sex marriages in a church or religious institution where the said church or religious institution is consenting to carrying out the service.

Nothing is being forced upon anyone here. Isn't that what freedom is all about? Or maybe our ancestors should have let the Nazis win?

Homophobia is vile and so many posters on here are clearly anti-equality.

Sad to see.

So whats your opinion on all the anti-religious bile the gay community like to come up with to make their point?
How is that equality?

If this country wants to legalise state gay marriage go for it, the problem is the gay community already had that option it was called a civil partnership the same as a straight couple would have a civil ceremony commonly called marriage. A civil partnership offers all the same protections as a civil ceremony and if you dont believe that ask the european courts because that was their conclusion.

Now this bill will give the gay community two options they can either get married or have a civil partnership an option unavailable to a straight couple.

As far as religions go, as a Catholic my fear is that my church will be up before the european courts because someone will decide it is discriminating against the gay community. My view is as a Catholic, marriage is between one man and one woman for the procreation of children. Now if you disagree with that, thats fine nobody is forcing you to be a Catholic or any other religious denomination. I do not expect people to always agree with my views but I do expect respect for my beliefs, the same way as I may not agree with the way anybody leads their lives but I will respect that it is their life to live.

I have no issue with state gay marriage, I believe that if two people want to spend their lives together they should be awarded the same protections legally as everybody else and if they choose to celebrate that fact they have my blessing, because I remember what I live by and that is to respect everybody even if you may not agree with everything about them.

All I ask is that the Gay community offer me the same level of respect and acceptance that they demand from 'people like me'. I entered several debates yesterday about this issue and as soon as I said something they disagreed with I was automatically labelled a bigot and a homophobe, despite my support for gay state marriage.

So before you start stating facts like how vile people are by their homophobic views and how anti-equality they are, ask yourself these questions.

Are their posts homophobic because they dont believe marriage should be between two men or two women, or is it based on their religious beliefs, which I will remind you they are entitled to under the equalities act under the freedom of religion?

Are their posts anti-equality because they dont believe gay people should be offered the same rights or protections because they dont deserve them, or is it based on their religious beliefs, which I will remind you they are entitled to under the equalities act under the freedom of religion?

I will reply to this fully when I have the time.

I must clarify something beforehand, I have no issue with personal devotion and faith. This is fine, understandable, and a basic right of which every human must always be allowed. This is not, in any way, an attack on the individual.

However, you seem to think that everyone should respect your Catholic views. Why? Why does Catholicism deserve respect? I believe that respect is earned. The Catholic church holds responsibility for the Crusades, the Inquisition, the persecution of the Jewish people, the torture of Gallileo, the repression and maltreatment of women (that's half the human race in other words) and the forced conversion of indigenous people; most notably in South America. Furthermore, Catholicism has blood on its hands from the African Slave trade, as well as the Third Reich's attempted elimination of the Jewish race; in which the Catholic church remained all too quiet during Hitler's 'Final solution' (Anti-Semitism was preached as an official doctrine of the Church until 1964; simply grotesque).

Homophobia is simply another thing on that all too long list.

I don't respect the teachings of Islam because I feel it is outdated and responsible for infinite suffering. Your religion is no different , I cannot and will not respect it. I'd like to make that clear.

Moving on. You suggest that I'm 'stating facts about how vile and homophobic people are'. Take a look at this thread, it is rampant with bigotry, insults, demeaning phrases and awful language. It IS homophobic, clear as daylight. How many of the people using such language are actually religious? Very few.

Anyway, calling homosexuality 'wrong' and 'unnaturual' IS homophobia. That is bare, undeniable, fact. I do not believe that religious belief can be used as an excuse for homophobia. Cathloic, Muslim, Jewish whatever I genuinely don't care. If you're discriminating against homosexuals then that makes you a Catholic homophobe, Musilim homophobe, Jewish homophobe etc.

So basically whatever you think is right and whatever I think is wrong thanks for that.

I deplore the fact that you can call me a homophobe based on my religion I would like to see what evidence you have of that.

You can pick at my religion all you want and yes many atrocities have been caused throughout history but you can say that about most established groups throughout our history as human beings on this planet, people have made many mistakes in life and will probably continue to do so in the future its what we call free will, people generally use religion to defend their wrong doings and they are wrong to do so and that includes people in the Catholic Church. Also people are capable of repairing the damage that has been done and in recent years a lot of reconciliation has occurred between the Jewish community and the Catholic Church but I suppose that wouldnt help in your hatred for any religion except Judaism it seems. Also the Catholic Church does a lot of good in this world thats something you could respect possibly.

Now and I will pull you up on this and ive caught you out before, your very quick to judge and condemn religion especially mine without really studying my religion and what it preaches. Now correct me if im wrong but that would be considered a bigoted point of view.

Now you defend the gay community and thats great nothing wrong with that, I respect you for doing it but you cant or wont answer my first question. Now to carry on you preach equality now a better word would be tolerance, I respect you for that stance as well. However practice what you preach, to live in an equal or tolerant society relies upon a huge amount of mutual respect something which the Catholic Church teaches. Now if you dont believe in the fundamentals of organised religion, thats fine you have your right to that belief and the right to voice your opinions through freedom of speech also nobody forces you to follow any religion, it is also reliant on your respect for those religions despite your disbelief. If you want people to respect your beliefs you need to start respecting other beliefs its called tolerance. Thats why you should respect the Catholic Church along with all other religions. I would like to say if you dont respect me why should I respect you, unfortunately I wasnt brought up that way as I was taught to treat others as I would like to be treated, that teaches thoughtlessness, tolerance, understanding and mutual respect.

So I will ask again how do you feel about the gay communities stance on the Catholic Church and the mostly bigoted view it has and would you consider that view to be anti-equal or perfectly acceptable?

Not trying to do myself any favours

Just to clarify:

These are my views and im not trying to argue with people as to how right or wrong their views are. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Just because I think its wrong and unnatural doesnt give me the right to tell other people how to live which is something I havent done. However, basically being called a bad parent because I have these views is below the belt. Id never force my kids to have my views, only thing i force on them is which football team they support!

Just to clarify:

These are my views and im not trying to argue with people as to how right or wrong their views are. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

Just because I think its wrong and unnatural doesnt give me the right to tell other people how to live which is something I havent done. However, basically being called a bad parent because I have these views is below the belt. Id never force my kids to have my views, only thing i force on them is which football team they support!

Homosexuality is not a choice. If your child grew up gay you would think that they were

wrong

and

unnatural

because

thought makes me feel ill

and

Its disgusting

After all,

I am homophobic and do not care what you think of me because of it.

You may not force your views on your kids but whether you like it or not, you are a role model for them. They will look up to you. And IF they happen to be homosexual, your beliefs will make thier lives a lot harder.

Whos to say i would make my feelings known to them? I wouldnt as they are my feelings.

Id still love my kids if they were gay, just because i find their choice disgusting its still their choice and their life. My kids dont know my views on gays and i intend to keep it that way, just as my views on politics and religion will be kept away from them as i want them to make their own choices in life.

Supportive parenting 101

What have my personal feelings about gays got to do with my parenting? They are my views and i would never force them on my kids or anybody else.

Unless they're homosexual of course. Then what?

I would like to think that kids deserve support regardless of their natural sexual orientation.

Last edited by OhhhGa on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Supportive parenting 101

What have my personal feelings about gays got to do with my parenting? They are my views and i would never force them on my kids or anybody else.

Unless they're homosexual of course. Then what?

I would like to think that kids deserve support regardless of their nartural sexual orientation.

Read my above post

Supportive parenting 101

What have my personal feelings about gays got to do with my parenting? They are my views and i would never force them on my kids or anybody else.

Unless they're homosexual of course. Then what?

I would like to think that kids deserve support regardless of their nartural sexual orientation.

Read my above post

Which implies that you would find it extremely difficult to support their 'unnatural' and 'disgusting' 'choice' (it's NOT a choice).

But hey, I must be a 'closet bender' for defending a harmless group of society and their rights.

Im defending my right to opinion.
Where have i said its a choice? You made that up.
Your basing how id react to my kids on a hypothetical situation and calling me a bad parent based on that. Im using facts on how i bring up my kids now.

Homophobia is vile and so many posters on here are clearly anti-equality.

Sad to see.

So whats your opinion on all the anti-religious bile the gay community like to come up with to make their point?
How is that equality?

If this country wants to legalise state gay marriage go for it, the problem is the gay community already had that option it was called a civil partnership the same as a straight couple would have a civil ceremony commonly called marriage. A civil
partnership offers all the same protections as a civil ceremony and if you dont believe that ask the european courts because that was their conclusion.

Now this bill will give the gay community two options they can either get married or have a civil partnership an option unavailable to a straight couple.

As far as religions go, as a Catholic my fear is that my church will be up before the european courts because someone will decide it is discriminating against the gay community. My view is as a Catholic, marriage is between one man and one woman for the procreation of children. Now if you disagree with that, thats fine nobody is forcing you to be a Catholic or any other religious denomination. I do not expect people to always agree with my views but I do expect respect for my beliefs, the same way as I may not agree with the way anybody leads their lives but I will respect that it is their life to live.

I have no issue with state gay marriage, I believe that if two people want to spend their lives together they should be awarded the same protections legally as everybody else and if they choose to celebrate that fact they have my blessing, because I remember what I live by and that is to respect everybody even if you may not agree with everything about them.

All I ask is that the Gay community offer me the same level of respect and acceptance that they demand from 'people like me'. I entered several debates yesterday about this issue and as soon as I said something they disagreed with I was automatically labelled a bigot and a homophobe, despite my support for gay state marriage.

So before you start stating facts like how vile people are by their homophobic views and how anti-equality they are, ask yourself these questions.

Are their posts homophobic because they dont believe marriage should be between two men or two women, or is it based on their religious beliefs, which I will remind you they are entitled to under the equalities act under the freedom of religion?

Are their posts anti-equality because they dont believe gay people should be offered the same rights or protections because they dont deserve them, or is it based on their religious beliefs, which I will remind you they are entitled to under the equalities act under the freedom of religion?

I will reply to this fully when I have the time.

I must clarify something beforehand, I have no issue with personal devotion and faith. This is fine, understandable, and a basic right of which every human must always be allowed. This is not, in any way, an attack on the individual.

However, you seem to think that everyone should respect your Catholic views. Why? Why does Catholicism deserve respect? I believe that respect is earned. The Catholic church holds responsibility for the Crusades, the Inquisition, the persecution of the Jewish people, the torture of Gallileo, the repression and maltreatment of women (that's half the human race in other words) and the forced conversion of indigenous people; most notably in South America. Furthermore, Catholicism has blood on its hands from the African Slave trade, as well as the Third Reich's attempted elimination of the Jewish race; in which the Catholic church remained all too quiet during Hitler's 'Final solution' (Anti-Semitism was preached as an official doctrine of the Church until 1964; simply grotesque).

Homophobia is simply another thing on that all too long list.

I don't respect the teachings of Islam because I feel it is outdated and responsible for infinite suffering. Your religion is no different , I cannot and will not respect it. I'd like to make that clear.

Moving on. You suggest that I'm 'stating facts about how vile and homophobic people are'. Take a look at this thread, it is rampant with bigotry, insults, demeaning phrases and awful language. It IS homophobic, clear as daylight. How many of the people using such language are actually religious? Very few.

Anyway, calling homosexuality 'wrong' and 'unnaturual' IS homophobia. That is bare, undeniable, fact. I do not believe that religious belief can be used as an excuse for homophobia. Cathloic, Muslim, Jewish whatever I genuinely don't care. If you're discriminating against homosexuals then that makes you a Catholic homophobe, Musilim homophobe, Jewish homophobe etc.

So basically whatever you think is right and whatever I think is wrong thanks for that.

I deplore the fact that you can call me a homophobe based on my religion I would like to see what evidence you have of that.

You can pick at my religion all you want and yes many atrocities have been caused throughout history but you can say that about most established groups throughout our history as human beings on this planet, people have made many mistakes in life and will probably continue to do so in the future its what we call free will, people generally use religion to defend their wrong doings and they are wrong to do so and that includes people in the Catholic Church. Also people are capable of repairing the damage that has been done and in recent years a lot of reconciliation has occurred between the Jewish community and the Catholic Church but I suppose that wouldnt help in your hatred for any religion except Judaism it seems. Also the Catholic Church does a lot of good in this world thats something you could respect possibly.

Now and I will pull you up on this and ive caught you out before, your very quick to judge and condemn religion especially mine without really studying my religion and what it preaches. Now correct me if im wrong but that would be considered a bigoted point of view.

Now you defend the gay community and thats great nothing wrong with that, I respect you for doing it but you cant or wont answer my first question. Now to carry on you preach equality now a better word would be tolerance, I respect you for that stance as well. However practice what you preach, to live in an equal or tolerant society relies upon a huge amount of mutual respect something which the Catholic Church teaches. Now if you dont believe in the fundamentals of organised religion, thats fine you have your right to that belief and the right to voice your opinions through freedom of speech also nobody forces you to follow any religion, it is also reliant on your respect for those religions despite your disbelief. If you want people to respect your beliefs you need to start respecting other beliefs its called tolerance. Thats why you should respect the Catholic Church along with all other religions. I would like to say if you dont respect me why should I respect you, unfortunately I wasnt brought up that way as I was taught to treat others as I would like to be treated, that teaches thoughtlessness, tolerance, understanding and mutual respect.

So I will ask again how do you feel about the gay communities stance on the Catholic Church and the mostly bigoted view it has and would you consider that view to be anti-equal or perfectly acceptable?

No, that's not what I've said at all. I am obviously going to argue my points just as you would argue yours, that's what debate is.

I have never called you a homophobe. Another very poor, lazy, reading on your behalf. I have called the Catholic Church homophobic and if you would like evidence for that then I a willing to provide it.

I find it utterly shocking that you try to defer the discrimination of homosexuals from the Catholic church; which is of course the main perpetrator. Your church has condemned homosexuals for centuries, suggesting that they cannot and will not join, that they will not go to heaven, that they have sinned from birth because of who and what they are. The Catholic church branded and I quote, homosexuals as "disordered and morally evil individuals". This is inhuman, morally repugnant and disgraceful and your Church should feel utterly ashamed.

Equally, I am not willing to forgive the Catholic Church for the murder of millions of innocents throughout history. As well as the systematic abuse of children all over the world that continues today. Sorry, I just cannot do that.

I don't hate religion, I respect the right to personal faith. However, I hate how it is used as a blanket, a shield, a smokescreen for the indefensible. As your initial post said, you felt that religious belief was a fair excuse for homophobia. It isn't, and I will never agree with such repugnant and archaic beliefs. To defend it with religion simply says that it is not only YOUR beliefs that are deplorable, but those of the church you follow.

I am not a bigot. I have come to my conclusions regarding Catholicism based on fact. They are responsible for infinite misery and suffering, and yet if I mention this I am branded a bigot on the same level as racists and homophobes. Well, let me ask you, how many minority groups are responsible for the amount of suffering that the Catholic Church has caused? None.

If the Catholic Church taught 'tolerance and mutual respect' then it would not demonise homosexuality and women.

With regards to your final point, you seem to be calling homosexuals 'anti-equality' for disliking an institution that has called them, and I quote once again, "disordered and morally evil individuals". I don't believe that this makes them bigoted, as your Church shouls be ashamed of this.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling that it isn't.

Im defending my right to opinion.
Where have i said its a choice? You made that up.
Your basing how id react to my kids on a hypothetical situation and calling me a bad parent based on that. Im using facts on how i bring up my kids now.

"just because I find their choice disgusting"

Miss that then?

I'm basing it on what you, yourself have said. That is also fact, and have never caled you a bad parent. THAT is making something up. I have merely questioned how supportive a parent can be of a homosexual child when they feel it is 'wrong', 'unnatural', and 'disgusting'. All fair points.

Whos to say i would make my feelings known to them? I wouldnt as they are my feelings.

Id still love my kids if they were gay, just because i find their choice disgusting its still their choice and their life. My kids dont know my views on gays and i intend to keep it that way, just as my views on politics and religion will be kept away from them as i want them to make their own choices in life.

It is not a choice!!!!!!

Whos to say i would make my feelings known to them? I wouldnt as they are my feelings.

Id still love my kids if they were gay, just because i find their choice disgusting its still their choice and their life. My kids dont know my views on gays and i intend to keep it that way, just as my views on politics and religion will be kept away from them as i want them to make their own choices in life.

It is not a choice!!!!!!

He says choice three times

Absolute mare.

Some childlike uneducated nonsense on this thread I tell thee.

I'm about to get married but neither of us want kids. Is this sil ok? Homosexuals have more of the X or Y chromosome than most male or females have, it happens in many species and is perfectly natural. Those that say it isn't are simply wrong. Not common, but perfectly natural.

Are aeroplanes natural? Is marshmallow? Are fake boobs? Is red Cardiffs natural colour? Do many of you like and condone some or most of that? I guess so.

It isn't a question of natural, it's a question of homophobia. if its a religious argument then id question who is saner, a guy wanting to marry a person he loves or someone believing that the earth is 6,000 years old, we were all created by a god and any proof to the contrary was planted by a horned beast that lives in a fiery pit under ground. religion is for the impressionable and naive.... and don't get me started on taffy apples contribution

Hope all you homos have a great honeymoon, common sense prevails

Whos to say i would make my feelings known to them? I wouldnt as they are my feelings.

Id still love my kids if they were gay, just because i find their choice disgusting its still their choice and their life. My kids dont know my views on gays and i intend to keep it that way, just as my views on politics and religion will be kept away from them as i want them to make their own choices in life.

It is not a choice!!!!!!

He says choice three times

Absolute mare.

Fair enough, the bottom "choice" i was referring to life in general.

I shouldnt have used "their choice is disgusting" but none the less i would find the fact they were gay disgusting.

Should black people be allowed to get married in Britain? Black Brits are not natural to Britain and descended from Africa and South America. Or would that be racist?

Homophobia is vile and so many posters on here are clearly anti-equality.

Sad to see.

So whats your opinion on all the anti-religious bile the gay community like to come up with to make their point?
How is that equality?

If this country wants to legalise state gay marriage go for it, the problem is the gay community already had that option it was called a civil partnership the same as a straight couple would have a civil ceremony commonly called marriage. A civil
partnership offers all the same protections as a civil ceremony and if you dont believe that ask the european courts because that was their conclusion.

Now this bill will give the gay community two options they can either get married or have a civil partnership an option unavailable to a straight couple.

As far as religions go, as a Catholic my fear is that my church will be up before the european courts because someone will decide it is discriminating against the gay community. My view is as a Catholic, marriage is between one man and one woman for the procreation of children. Now if you disagree with that, thats fine nobody is forcing you to be a Catholic or any other religious denomination. I do not expect people to always agree with my views but I do expect respect for my beliefs, the same way as I may not agree with the way anybody leads their lives but I will respect that it is their life to live.

I have no issue with state gay marriage, I believe that if two people want to spend their lives together they should be awarded the same protections legally as everybody else and if they choose to celebrate that fact they have my blessing, because I remember what I live by and that is to respect everybody even if you may not agree with everything about them.

All I ask is that the Gay community offer me the same level of respect and acceptance that they demand from 'people like me'. I entered several debates yesterday about this issue and as soon as I said something they disagreed with I was automatically labelled a bigot and a homophobe, despite my support for gay state marriage.

So before you start stating facts like how vile people are by their homophobic views and how anti-equality they are, ask yourself these questions.

Are their posts homophobic because they dont believe marriage should be between two men or two women, or is it based on their religious beliefs, which I will remind you they are entitled to under the equalities act under the freedom of religion?

Are their posts anti-equality because they dont believe gay people should be offered the same rights or protections because they dont deserve them, or is it based on their religious beliefs, which I will remind you they are entitled to under the equalities act under the freedom of religion?

I will reply to this fully when I have the time.

I must clarify something beforehand, I have no issue with personal devotion and faith. This is fine, understandable, and a basic right of which every human must always be allowed. This is not, in any way, an attack on the individual.

However, you seem to think that everyone should respect your Catholic views. Why? Why does Catholicism deserve respect? I believe that respect is earned. The Catholic church holds responsibility for the Crusades, the Inquisition, the persecution of the Jewish people, the torture of Gallileo, the repression and maltreatment of women (that's half the human race in other words) and the forced conversion of indigenous people; most notably in South America. Furthermore, Catholicism has blood on its hands from the African Slave trade, as well as the Third Reich's attempted elimination of the Jewish race; in which the Catholic church remained all too quiet during Hitler's 'Final solution' (Anti-Semitism was preached as an official doctrine of the Church until 1964; simply grotesque).

Homophobia is simply another thing on that all too long list.

I don't respect the teachings of Islam because I feel it is outdated and responsible for infinite suffering. Your religion is no different , I cannot and will not respect it. I'd like to make that clear.

Moving on. You suggest that I'm 'stating facts about how vile and homophobic people are'. Take a look at this thread, it is rampant with bigotry, insults, demeaning phrases and awful language. It IS homophobic, clear as daylight. How many of the people using such language are actually religious? Very few.

Anyway, calling homosexuality 'wrong' and 'unnaturual' IS homophobia. That is bare, undeniable, fact. I do not believe that religious belief can be used as an excuse for homophobia. Cathloic, Muslim, Jewish whatever I genuinely don't care. If you're discriminating against homosexuals then that makes you a Catholic homophobe, Musilim homophobe, Jewish homophobe etc.

So basically whatever you think is right and whatever I think is wrong thanks for that.

I deplore the fact that you can call me a homophobe based on my religion I would like to see what evidence you have of that.

You can pick at my religion all you want and yes many atrocities have been caused throughout history but you can say that about most established groups throughout our history as human beings on this planet, people have made many mistakes in life and will probably continue to do so in the future its what we call free will, people generally use religion to defend their wrong doings and they are wrong to do so and that includes people in the Catholic Church. Also people are capable of repairing the damage that has been done and in recent years a lot of reconciliation has occurred between the Jewish community and the Catholic Church but I suppose that wouldnt help in your hatred for any religion except Judaism it seems. Also the Catholic Church does a lot of good in this world thats something you could respect possibly.

Now and I will pull you up on this and ive caught you out before, your very quick to judge and condemn religion especially mine without really studying my religion and what it preaches. Now correct me if im wrong but that would be considered a bigoted point of view.

Now you defend the gay community and thats great nothing wrong with that, I respect you for doing it but you cant or wont answer my first question. Now to carry on you preach equality now a better word would be tolerance, I respect you for that stance as well. However practice what you preach, to live in an equal or tolerant society relies upon a huge amount of mutual respect something which the Catholic Church teaches. Now if you dont believe in the fundamentals of organised religion, thats fine you have your right to that belief and the right to voice your opinions through freedom of speech also nobody forces you to follow any religion, it is also reliant on your respect for those religions despite your disbelief. If you want people to respect your beliefs you need to start respecting other beliefs its called tolerance. Thats why you should respect the Catholic Church along with all other religions. I would like to say if you dont respect me why should I respect you, unfortunately I wasnt brought up that way as I was taught to treat others as I would like to be treated, that teaches thoughtlessness, tolerance, understanding and mutual respect.

So I will ask again how do you feel about the gay communities stance on the Catholic Church and the mostly bigoted view it has and would you consider that view to be anti-equal or perfectly acceptable?

No, that's not what I've said at all. I am obviously going to argue my points just as you would argue yours, that's what debate is.

I have never called you a homophobe. Another very poor, lazy, reading on your behalf. I have called the Catholic Church homophobic and if you would like evidence for that then I a willing to provide it.

I find it utterly shocking that you try to defer the discrimination of homosexuals from the Catholic church; which is of course the main perpetrator. Your church has condemned homosexuals for centuries, suggesting that they cannot and will not join, that they will not go to heaven, that they have sinned from birth because of who and what they are. The Catholic church branded and I quote, homosexuals as "disordered and morally evil individuals". This is inhuman, morally repugnant and disgraceful and your Church should feel utterly ashamed.

Equally, I am not willing to forgive the Catholic Church for the murder of millions of innocents throughout history. As well as the systematic abuse of children all over the world that continues today. Sorry, I just cannot do that.

I don't hate religion, I respect the right to personal faith. However, I hate how it is used as a blanket, a shield, a smokescreen for the indefensible. As your initial post said, you felt that religious belief was a fair excuse for homophobia. It isn't, and I will never agree with such repugnant and archaic beliefs. To defend it with religion simply says that it is not only YOUR beliefs that are deplorable, but those of the church you follow.

I am not a bigot. I have come to my conclusions regarding Catholicism based on fact. They are responsible for infinite misery and suffering, and yet if I mention this I am branded a bigot on the same level as racists and homophobes. Well, let me ask you, how many minority groups are responsible for the amount of suffering that the Catholic Church has caused? None.

If the Catholic Church taught 'tolerance and mutual respect' then it would not demonise homosexuality and women.

With regards to your final point, you seem to be calling homosexuals 'anti-equality' for disliking an institution that has called them, and I quote once again, "disordered and morally evil individuals". I don't believe that this makes them bigoted, as your Church shouls be ashamed of this.

Unfortunately, I get the feeling that it isn't.

Now your putting words in my mouth, your good at that.

Yes you did call me a homophobe, if you believe that my religion is intrinsically homophobic (which it isnt, another sign of your bigotry) you are in fact calling me a homophobe.

I have never used religion as an excuse for homophobia, I would say your entire lack of understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches leads you to that conclusion but you are in fact wrong. I will however briefly try and educate you. The Catholic church does not believe homosexuals are evil, God created us in his own image and if he created man in his own image how can someone who is born as a homosexual be evil? Now when it comes to homosexual acts yes they are considered as a sin. Now you can say how shocking that belief is but when I tell you that fornication (thats heterosexual sex before marriage), masturbation (for both homosexuals and heterosexuals), lust (for both homosexuals and heterosexuals), pornography (for both homosexuals and heterosexuals), prostitution (for both homosexuals and heterosexuals) and rape (both homosexuals and heterosexuals) are all considered sinful. Homosexual lust is just as sinful as heterosexual lust. Homosexual acts are just as sinful as heterosexual sexual acts outside of marriage. A person created by God as we all are created cannot be evil. So personally I believe you would be hard pressed to find how the Catholic Church specifically discriminates against homosexuals. I will not discredit how different cultures has had an impact on how beliefs can be interpreted. It wouldnt be to hard to understand that when this country decided that homosexuality was illegal that religious views are wrongly altered. I would say your quote was misinterpreted but that happens a lot.

I will not stand here and try to defend or deplore the acts of the Catholic Church throughout history. One reason it would take far too long and im not that big an expert in history. Also people do a lot in the supposed name of religion, certain muslims in todays society would be a good example.

The Catholic Church does teach tolerance and understanding also teaches respect, im sorry you dont understand that, it does not demonise women or homosexuals.

So again your beliefs based on inaccurate information (though I will concede that it can easily be interpreted wrongly) does make for a bigoted opinion.

Now I do believe many in the gay community have the same bigoted belief because they believe they are specifically discriminated against which is untrue. Despite this they conjure a lot of support and I believe it makes a mockery of the equality you hold so preciously.

Dude, your religion doesnt want to let homosexuals commit thier love to each other in one of its buildings (before the eyes of god) purely because..... they're homosexual.

It doesn't get much more homophobic than that.

Also, what he said, and I agree with, is that he respects your right to believe what you want (so not an attack on you) but he doesnt have to respect the religion. Waaaay to many people have died for that.

Why can't people just be kind without god? Why do they need to be controlled? Helping others is about being a decent human being and nothing to do with religion. If you can't lead a good life without religion, its morals you lack, not a god.

Dude, your religion doesnt want to let homosexuals commit thier love to each other in one of its buildings (before the eyes of god) purely because..... they're homosexual.

It doesn't get much more homophobic than that.

Also, what he said, and I agree with, is that he respects your right to believe what you want (so not an attack on you) but he doesnt have to respect the religion. Waaaay to many people have died for that.

Why can't people just be kind without god? Why do they need to be controlled? Helping others is about being a decent human being and nothing to do with religion. If you can't lead a good life without religion, its morals you lack, not a god.

Last paragraph - excellently put

Dude, your religion doesnt want to let homosexuals commit thier love to each other in one of its buildings (before the eyes of god) purely because..... they're homosexual.

It doesn't get much more homophobic than that.

Also, what he said, and I agree with, is that he respects your right to believe what you want (so not an attack on you) but he doesnt have to respect the religion. Waaaay to many people have died for that.

Why can't people just be kind without god? Why do they need to be controlled? Helping others is about being a decent human being and nothing to do with religion. If you can't lead a good life without religion, its morals you lack, not a god.

See youve just done exactly the same thing, youve concentrated on homosexuality and ignored the other relevant points.

Sex before marriage is a sin, thats pretty clear that heterosexuals unless married cannot have sex, same is relevant to homosexuals. So the same rules apply to homosexuals as they do heterosexuals. So I fail to see how it is discriminative.

I dont see how he respects my religious belief when he spouts such bigoted beliefs about it.

I agree that if you cant lead a good life that it is morals you lack, not God. I havent said that. What I do believe is that I will strive to lead a good life in accordance to my particular religious belief and with the help of God I can try to lead that life.

f**k me this threads still going on its gone from the campest closet gays to religion in six pages, its like i posted a furry bum hole in this thread and all the shirt lifters couldnt wait to join in the gangbang, we got lovers tiffs going on everywhere mun

See youve just done exactly the same thing, youve concentrated on homosexuality and ignored the other relevant points.

Look at the title of the thread numbnuts.

Sex before marriage is a sin, thats pretty clear that heterosexuals unless married cannot have sex, same is relevant to homosexuals. So the same rules apply to homosexuals as they do heterosexuals. So I fail to see how it is discriminative.

Because your religion won't let them get married!!!!!! So in your eyes they are always sinning, there's no way out for them! Thats how it is discriminative

I dont see how he respects my religious belief when he spouts such bigoted beliefs about it.

He respects your right to think what you want, not the content of those thoughts. They are two seperate things. Its important that every human on this planet is allowed to hold whatever beliefs they want, and we respect THAT. What we do not respect is the rules and history within the actual religion itself.

I agree that if you cant lead a good life that it is morals you lack, not God. I havent said that. What I do believe is that I will strive to lead a good life in accordance to my particular religious belief and with the help of God I can try to lead that life.

Well its your life and I won't argue with that. Just as homosexuals have thier lives that they deserve equality for.

See youve just done exactly the same thing, youve concentrated on homosexuality and ignored the other relevant points.

Look at the title of the thread numbnuts.

Sex before marriage is a sin, thats pretty clear that heterosexuals unless married cannot have sex, same is relevant to homosexuals. So the same rules apply to homosexuals as they do heterosexuals. So I fail to see how it is discriminative.

Because your religion won't let them get married!!!!!! So in your eyes they are always sinning, there's no way out for them! Thats how it is discriminative

I dont see how he respects my religious belief when he spouts such bigoted beliefs about it.

He respects your right to think what you want, not the content of those thoughts. They are two seperate things. Its important that every human on this planet is allowed to hold whatever beliefs they want, and we respect THAT. What we do not respect is the rules and history within the actual religion itself.

I agree that if you cant lead a good life that it is morals you lack, not God. I havent said that. What I do believe is that I will strive to lead a good life in accordance to my particular religious belief and with the help of God I can try to lead that life.

Well its your life and I won't argue with that. Just as homosexuals have thier lives that they deserve equality for.

well if you read my previous posts you wouldnt tell me to look at the title of the thread.
marriage is defined as between a man and a woman for the procreation of children, anything outside of that is itself sinful. Which includes both heterosexual acts and homosexual acts. Gay people are not treated any different, by definition of homosexuality they cannot get married in a Catholic Church as they cannot have children. I dont understand why that concept is so shocking. Also people who have been divorced cannot get married as your vows are for life and once you make those vows thats it, you cant get married twice. Now because this is what I believe doesnt mean that I dont recognise civil ceremonies or legal divorce, neither do I discredit civil partnerships. These are viable options for non-religious people. Now the gay community have two options to secure their legal status as a couple, either civil partnership or marriage an opportunity not available to heterosexual couples, do you consider that fair I dont.

Whos to say i would make my feelings known to them? I wouldnt as they are my feelings.

Id still love my kids if they were gay, just because i find their choice disgusting its still their choice and their life. My kids dont know my views on gays and i intend to keep it that way, just as my views on politics and religion will be kept away from them as i want them to make their own choices in life.

It is not a choice!!!!!!

He says choice three times

Absolute mare.

Fair enough, the bottom "choice" i was referring to life in general.

I shouldnt have used "their choice is disgusting" but none the less i would find the fact they were gay disgusting.

Is it possible for you to talk to someone without thinking about them having sex?

I find the thought of two fat people having sex quite disgusting, so when I talk to a fat person I just don't think about that facet of their life...

Benders getting married is a disgrace, end of.

They say that one in four men has homosexual tendencies & this thread proves that, reading through the thread there does seem quite a few knob jockey's in denial, maybe there should be a coming out thread

think you will find the egg came first =] you need to start watching QI

They say that one in four men has homosexual tendencies & this thread proves that, reading through the thread there does seem quite a few knob jockey's in denial, maybe there should be a coming out thread

That explains why you posted then

Benders getting married is a disgrace, end of.

Here here pal