The Vaccine has landed- a giant step for mankind !!!

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

It's all about opinions and there is (quote) "shit" spouted on both sides in this thread; but the overriding FACT is that over 100,000+ people have died in the UK and the figures amount to many millions over the globe

So what are Governements and health officials supposed to do...?

They have developed a vaccine (based on previous research) in record time and it has been trialled and tested before approval

Clearly, we won't know beyond any shadow of doubt whether it is the Covid-19 'cure all' it is claimed (by some) to be but the signs are generally very good and it is better than watching many more people die because there is no other cure

Notably, the UK and in particular Oxford University, have led the field in developing this vaccine and I feel pretty confident (in the absence of a suspicious mind that all things Government are sinister) that what we have is valid and workable

Now, had said vaccine been developed in China itself or maybe Russia or North Korea, I might have a different view...

But it wasn't; it was developed in the UK with all its checks and counter-checks and, for once, said development has been both timely and credible...to most

I have a flu jab every year but I accept there is a chance (and it happens) that I will catch mild flu at some point but I don't get it to the levels that I once did and for me, that is a blessing; I hope (an apt word at this stage) and believe (based on available evidence) that this will be the case with the Covid Vaccine

Of course, only time will tell and I don't condemn anyone who declines the vaccine. It's a case of each to their own and that is their prerogative; but I do wonder if they have really asked themselves the right questions regarding the health, safety and well-being of themselves and others?

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

With the various vaccines and pharmaceutical companies, it has been tested on 100's of thousands of people. Multiple, very large sample sizes with multiple variables: age, gender, health conditions, race, etc counts as extensive. Extensive is determined by the number of samples in an experiment, in this case the vaccine and research into it counts as extensive.

Your main gripe is with the timeframe I believe, I assume that's what you're doubting about me calling it "extensive"? Maybe it's another poster I'm thinking of?

As for the vaccines causing deaths, would you be referring to the 33 deaths in Norway? If not direct me to which deaths you refer, I'm only aware of the Norwegian ones from the start of January.
Norway have vaccinated around 220k people at last count, comparatively Norway had 582 deaths from 65k Covid cases. As for the people that died in Norway they were extremely old with underlying health conditions, there was always a risk that a foreign agent into their body could cause significant harm or even death.
That's hardly limited to this vaccine though, people are allergic to penicillin, ibuprofen, aspirin, chemo medication, etc. In this very thread people have commented that they themselves or people they know have had reactions to the flu jab.

As of Saturday and after 2 months of administering vaccines, 12.3million people in the UK have been given the first dose, the vast majority being old or with underlying health conditions yet we have not seen a surge in deaths. In fact, I've not seen any news about anybody dying in the UK after being administered the vaccine. For some perspective, with the current fatality rate of UK Covid cases, 12.3 million Covid cases would cause ~350k deaths.

Surely a sample size of over 12 million people should be extensive enough to see the vaccine causing unexpected fatalities?

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

With the various vaccines and pharmaceutical companies, it has been tested on 100's of thousands of people. Multiple, very large sample sizes with multiple variables: age, gender, health conditions, race, etc counts as extensive. Extensive is determined by the number of samples in an experiment, in this case the vaccine and research into it counts as extensive.

Your main gripe is with the timeframe I believe, I assume that's what you're doubting about me calling it "extensive"? Maybe it's another poster I'm thinking of?

As for the vaccines causing deaths, would you be referring to the 33 deaths in Norway? If not direct me to which deaths you refer, I'm only aware of the Norwegian ones from the start of January.
Norway have vaccinated around 220k people at last count, comparatively Norway had 582 deaths from 65k Covid cases. As for the people that died in Norway they were extremely old with underlying health conditions, there was always a risk that a foreign agent into their body could cause significant harm or even death.
That's hardly limited to this vaccine though, people are allergic to penicillin, ibuprofen, aspirin, chemo medication, etc. In this very thread people have commented that they themselves or people they know have had reactions to the flu jab.

As of Saturday and after 2 months of administering vaccines, 12.3million people in the UK have been given the first dose, the vast majority being old or with underlying health conditions yet we have not seen a surge in deaths. In fact, I've not seen any news about anybody dying in the UK after being administered the vaccine. For some perspective, with the current fatality rate of UK Covid cases, 12.3 million Covid cases would cause ~350k deaths.

Surely a sample size of over 12 million people should be extensive enough to see the vaccine causing unexpected fatalities?

Agreed it's a massive number of people who have been vaccinated and it has so far worked extremely well and is very safe, some people have taken a stance and would prefer it to fail and will constantly look for hope that they can eventually find something they can criticise it, but they can't find anything which is great news.

Agreed it's a massive number of people who have been vaccinated and it has so far worked extremely well and is very safe, some people have taken a stance and would prefer it to fail and will constantly look for hope that they can eventually find something they can criticise it, but they can't find anything which is great news.

I feel for you, I really do. You are blinded by MSM propaganda but you still spout their bullshit.

I believe in free will, and equally people to discern for themselves whether something is right or wrong.

There is no proof that this vaccine works....FACT.......but people will believe what they want to believe, and I salute them for that.

Just because I have made a choice not to inject myself with foreign bodies and particles, this should not affect anyone elses decision making process.

Agreed it's a massive number of people who have been vaccinated and it has so far worked extremely well and is very safe, some people have taken a stance and would prefer it to fail and will constantly look for hope that they can eventually find something they can criticise it, but they can't find anything which is great news.

I feel for you, I really do. You are blinded by MSM propaganda but you still spout their bullshit.

I believe in free will, and equally people to discern for themselves whether something is right or wrong.

There is no proof that this vaccine works....FACT.......but people will believe what they want to believe, and I salute them for that.

Just because I have made a choice not to inject myself with foreign bodies and particles, this should not affect anyone elses decision making process.

Don't feel for me, I listen to doctors and the medical profession, feel for people who believe what plonkers from the internet tell them

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

With the various vaccines and pharmaceutical companies, it has been tested on 100's of thousands of people. Multiple, very large sample sizes with multiple variables: age, gender, health conditions, race, etc counts as extensive. Extensive is determined by the number of samples in an experiment, in this case the vaccine and research into it counts as extensive.

Your main gripe is with the timeframe I believe, I assume that's what you're doubting about me calling it "extensive"? Maybe it's another poster I'm thinking of?

As for the vaccines causing deaths, would you be referring to the 33 deaths in Norway? If not direct me to which deaths you refer, I'm only aware of the Norwegian ones from the start of January.
Norway have vaccinated around 220k people at last count, comparatively Norway had 582 deaths from 65k Covid cases. As for the people that died in Norway they were extremely old with underlying health conditions, there was always a risk that a foreign agent into their body could cause significant harm or even death.
That's hardly limited to this vaccine though, people are allergic to penicillin, ibuprofen, aspirin, chemo medication, etc. In this very thread people have commented that they themselves or people they know have had reactions to the flu jab.

As of Saturday and after 2 months of administering vaccines, 12.3million people in the UK have been given the first dose, the vast majority being old or with underlying health conditions yet we have not seen a surge in deaths. In fact, I've not seen any news about anybody dying in the UK after being administered the vaccine. For some perspective, with the current fatality rate of UK Covid cases, 12.3 million Covid cases would cause ~350k deaths.

Surely a sample size of over 12 million people should be extensive enough to see the vaccine causing unexpected fatalities?

Well put, but,there have been numerous deaths in the uk,northern ireland,its not true to say there have been no deaths after the jab.plenty of evidence of whole care homes getting infected,one in devon had 11 residents,all had jabs 2 weeks ago,but have all now got covid.its unfair now to use the adage of they were old and unwell,so injecting them with chemicals could/would cause their deaths? A fee countries are now considering not giving it to over 65's due to "small test numbers for this age group"

Does anyone know if you have to be tested before recieving the vaccine? Seems a bit daft if not,as what if a person is positive for the virus,will the vaccine have any effect?

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

With the various vaccines and pharmaceutical companies, it has been tested on 100's of thousands of people. Multiple, very large sample sizes with multiple variables: age, gender, health conditions, race, etc counts as extensive. Extensive is determined by the number of samples in an experiment, in this case the vaccine and research into it counts as extensive.

Your main gripe is with the timeframe I believe, I assume that's what you're doubting about me calling it "extensive"? Maybe it's another poster I'm thinking of?

As for the vaccines causing deaths, would you be referring to the 33 deaths in Norway? If not direct me to which deaths you refer, I'm only aware of the Norwegian ones from the start of January.
Norway have vaccinated around 220k people at last count, comparatively Norway had 582 deaths from 65k Covid cases. As for the people that died in Norway they were extremely old with underlying health conditions, there was always a risk that a foreign agent into their body could cause significant harm or even death.
That's hardly limited to this vaccine though, people are allergic to penicillin, ibuprofen, aspirin, chemo medication, etc. In this very thread people have commented that they themselves or people they know have had reactions to the flu jab.

As of Saturday and after 2 months of administering vaccines, 12.3million people in the UK have been given the first dose, the vast majority being old or with underlying health conditions yet we have not seen a surge in deaths. In fact, I've not seen any news about anybody dying in the UK after being administered the vaccine. For some perspective, with the current fatality rate of UK Covid cases, 12.3 million Covid cases would cause ~350k deaths.

Surely a sample size of over 12 million people should be extensive enough to see the vaccine causing unexpected fatalities?

Well put, but,there have been numerous deaths in the uk,northern ireland,its not true to say there have been no deaths after the jab.plenty of evidence of whole care homes getting infected,one in devon had 11 residents,all had jabs 2 weeks ago,but have all now got covid.its unfair now to use the adage of they were old and unwell,so injecting them with chemicals could/would cause their deaths? A fee countries are now considering not giving it to over 65's due to "small test numbers for this age group"

Does anyone know if you have to be tested before recieving the vaccine? Seems a bit daft if not,as what if a person is positive for the virus,will the vaccine have any effect?

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

With the various vaccines and pharmaceutical companies, it has been tested on 100's of thousands of people. Multiple, very large sample sizes with multiple variables: age, gender, health conditions, race, etc counts as extensive. Extensive is determined by the number of samples in an experiment, in this case the vaccine and research into it counts as extensive.

Your main gripe is with the timeframe I believe, I assume that's what you're doubting about me calling it "extensive"? Maybe it's another poster I'm thinking of?

As for the vaccines causing deaths, would you be referring to the 33 deaths in Norway? If not direct me to which deaths you refer, I'm only aware of the Norwegian ones from the start of January.
Norway have vaccinated around 220k people at last count, comparatively Norway had 582 deaths from 65k Covid cases. As for the people that died in Norway they were extremely old with underlying health conditions, there was always a risk that a foreign agent into their body could cause significant harm or even death.
That's hardly limited to this vaccine though, people are allergic to penicillin, ibuprofen, aspirin, chemo medication, etc. In this very thread people have commented that they themselves or people they know have had reactions to the flu jab.

As of Saturday and after 2 months of administering vaccines, 12.3million people in the UK have been given the first dose, the vast majority being old or with underlying health conditions yet we have not seen a surge in deaths. In fact, I've not seen any news about anybody dying in the UK after being administered the vaccine. For some perspective, with the current fatality rate of UK Covid cases, 12.3 million Covid cases would cause ~350k deaths.

Surely a sample size of over 12 million people should be extensive enough to see the vaccine causing unexpected fatalities?

Well put, but,there have been numerous deaths in the uk,northern ireland,its not true to say there have been no deaths after the jab.plenty of evidence of whole care homes getting infected,one in devon had 11 residents,all had jabs 2 weeks ago,but have all now got covid.its unfair now to use the adage of they were old and unwell,so injecting them with chemicals could/would cause their deaths? A fee countries are now considering not giving it to over 65's due to "small test numbers for this age group"

Does anyone know if you have to be tested before recieving the vaccine? Seems a bit daft if not,as what if a person is positive for the virus,will the vaccine have any effect?

The only deaths I'd seen mentioned were the ones in Norway, probably due to it being very early in the vaccine rollout so they were prominent in the news cycle but thanks for pointing out the UK based ones. My point being with 12.3 million first doses administered in the UK and ~150 million worldwide the vaccine hasn't caused an unexpected number of deaths, especially considering the receivers of the vaccine are primarily either old or have health conditions which would put them more at risk of a fatal experience.
I wouldn't say it's unfair using the "old and unwell" adage as that is the main target group of the vaccination roll out at the moment and vaccines can cause a strain on your body. I'm in my 20's and relatively fit and healthy yet I've had jabs for travelling that have left me feeling rough for 24hours.

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

With the various vaccines and pharmaceutical companies, it has been tested on 100's of thousands of people. Multiple, very large sample sizes with multiple variables: age, gender, health conditions, race, etc counts as extensive. Extensive is determined by the number of samples in an experiment, in this case the vaccine and research into it counts as extensive.

Your main gripe is with the timeframe I believe, I assume that's what you're doubting about me calling it "extensive"? Maybe it's another poster I'm thinking of?

As for the vaccines causing deaths, would you be referring to the 33 deaths in Norway? If not direct me to which deaths you refer, I'm only aware of the Norwegian ones from the start of January.
Norway have vaccinated around 220k people at last count, comparatively Norway had 582 deaths from 65k Covid cases. As for the people that died in Norway they were extremely old with underlying health conditions, there was always a risk that a foreign agent into their body could cause significant harm or even death.
That's hardly limited to this vaccine though, people are allergic to penicillin, ibuprofen, aspirin, chemo medication, etc. In this very thread people have commented that they themselves or people they know have had reactions to the flu jab.

As of Saturday and after 2 months of administering vaccines, 12.3million people in the UK have been given the first dose, the vast majority being old or with underlying health conditions yet we have not seen a surge in deaths. In fact, I've not seen any news about anybody dying in the UK after being administered the vaccine. For some perspective, with the current fatality rate of UK Covid cases, 12.3 million Covid cases would cause ~350k deaths.

Surely a sample size of over 12 million people should be extensive enough to see the vaccine causing unexpected fatalities?

Well put, but,there have been numerous deaths in the uk,northern ireland,its not true to say there have been no deaths after the jab.plenty of evidence of whole care homes getting infected,one in devon had 11 residents,all had jabs 2 weeks ago,but have all now got covid.its unfair now to use the adage of they were old and unwell,so injecting them with chemicals could/would cause their deaths? A fee countries are now considering not giving it to over 65's due to "small test numbers for this age group"

Does anyone know if you have to be tested before receiving the vaccine? Seems a bit daft if not,as what if a person is positive for the virus, will the vaccine have any effect?

No they don't test you before you have a covid vaccine why would they? They do ask if you have symptoms though so as not to pass it on to others waiting for a vaccine.

I don't know the answer to what affect it would have, but I would imagine it would help by adding an extra immune response?

The vaccine takes 3 weeks to offer a strong level of covid protection, so yes a care home resident is unprotected at 2 weeks. so that is to be expected. I haven't heard of one case where someone has died as a result of having a vaccine, but I have heard of millions dying of covid who haven't had one.

Agreed it's a massive number of people who have been vaccinated and it has so far worked extremely well and is very safe, some people have taken a stance and would prefer it to fail and will constantly look for hope that they can eventually find something they can criticise it, but they can't find anything which is great news.

I feel for you, I really do. You are blinded by MSM propaganda but you still spout their bullshit.

I believe in free will, and equally people to discern for themselves whether something is right or wrong.

There is no proof that this vaccine works....FACT.......but people will believe what they want to believe, and I salute them for that.

Just because I have made a choice not to inject myself with foreign bodies and particles, this should not affect anyone elses decision making process.

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

I asked a generic question, why PEOPLE would take an antivirus stance and what have they got to gain, it wasn't aimed purely at you ?

And the response does not answer why anti vaxers would benefit from persuading people not to take a vaccine ?

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

With the various vaccines and pharmaceutical companies, it has been tested on 100's of thousands of people. Multiple, very large sample sizes with multiple variables: age, gender, health conditions, race, etc counts as extensive. Extensive is determined by the number of samples in an experiment, in this case the vaccine and research into it counts as extensive.

Your main gripe is with the timeframe I believe, I assume that's what you're doubting about me calling it "extensive"? Maybe it's another poster I'm thinking of?

As for the vaccines causing deaths, would you be referring to the 33 deaths in Norway? If not direct me to which deaths you refer, I'm only aware of the Norwegian ones from the start of January.
Norway have vaccinated around 220k people at last count, comparatively Norway had 582 deaths from 65k Covid cases. As for the people that died in Norway they were extremely old with underlying health conditions, there was always a risk that a foreign agent into their body could cause significant harm or even death.
That's hardly limited to this vaccine though, people are allergic to penicillin, ibuprofen, aspirin, chemo medication, etc. In this very thread people have commented that they themselves or people they know have had reactions to the flu jab.

As of Saturday and after 2 months of administering vaccines, 12.3million people in the UK have been given the first dose, the vast majority being old or with underlying health conditions yet we have not seen a surge in deaths. In fact, I've not seen any news about anybody dying in the UK after being administered the vaccine. For some perspective, with the current fatality rate of UK Covid cases, 12.3 million Covid cases would cause ~350k deaths.

Surely a sample size of over 12 million people should be extensive enough to see the vaccine causing unexpected fatalities?

Well put, but,there have been numerous deaths in the uk,northern ireland,its not true to say there have been no deaths after the jab.plenty of evidence of whole care homes getting infected,one in devon had 11 residents,all had jabs 2 weeks ago,but have all now got covid.its unfair now to use the adage of they were old and unwell,so injecting them with chemicals could/would cause their deaths? A fee countries are now considering not giving it to over 65's due to "small test numbers for this age group"

Does anyone know if you have to be tested before recieving the vaccine? Seems a bit daft if not,as what if a person is positive for the virus,will the vaccine have any effect?

correct mate.... there have been deaths..and there have already been changes to who can be vaccinated safely ...and by no stretch of the imagination were the vaccines tested to normal government standards , they have said as much ffs... ..... .then you read this thread, like so many others come backs .....denial and bare faced lies , talking about money , experts and bullshit extensive trials..with qanon , trump and conspiracy theories thrown in WHY ? .....so what exactly is to be gained by lies and exaggerations ..

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

correct....MSM have had agendas since they were formed....
the rest very much backs that statement up..... for the life of me i can not figure out how someone can start with that as point A.... then write war and peace unravelling his own very correct first sentence...

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

correct....MSM have had agendas since they were formed....
the rest very much backs that statement up..... for the life of me i can not figure out how someone can start with that as point A.... then write war and peace unravelling his own very correct first sentence...

My point is that the mainstream media is not one single entity. The individual components that make up the mainstream media have completely different opinions and agenda and have done since their individual formations.
FOX News and CNN are part of the MSM, yet have polar opposite reports on the state of affairs in America, likewise in the UK the Daily Mail and the Guardian and the Sun and the Telegraph are all part of the MSM yet have wildly different approaches to journalism in the UK. Same with Sky, BBC, ITV, C4, etc. All part of the MSM but with different biases, opinions and agendas.

For example, we're all football fans. But we're not all Crewe, West Ham, Aston Villa or Sunderland fans.

Using the MSM as a blanket term and saying the MSM is pushing an agenda doesn't work, as all the components of the MSM are at odds with each other over different opinions or agendas. If a narrative was being forced, opposing sides would know and would use it to demonise the others. Yet despite this, globally, not one single big player has blown the cover on this clandestine operation because there simply is none. Every government of every nation have played or will play some part in the vaccine research and vaccine rollout, they're not doing this because they've been duped.

Sorry if that's too long, next time I'll throw in some "waw" or "......" so it better suits your reading

At this moment as I stated data has proved that if you do catch it it will be mild preventing deaths and hospitalization I thought there was not enough data today whether it prevents the passing on of the virus, but as Bluebina has said astra has stated that it does reduce the transmission by two thirds.
Your stance about not having the vacination along with many people in the UK, just means that the pandemic will last a lot longer that it should do and more people will die

At this point I am seriously struggling to understand your stance on the issue in question.

I could shout all day about "my data", which I suspect would conflict with your data.....but quite frankly that would be futile.

What is up for discussion is in the last half of your last sentence. This is the bit that really confuses me.

My point is that anyone who wishes to take the vaccine should do, and good luck to them, I have no problem with that at all. So let us assume, and this is a big assumption I admit, that the vaccine works and is effevtive, and the effacacy levels quoted by big Pharma are true. The only people who will suffer thereafter are the ones who decided, for whatever reason, not to take the vaccine.

If that happens you can point the finger and say "I told you so". And yes, at that stage, assuming the vaccine is the miracle cure that you seem to believe, the people who decided not to take it are the only ones who will suffer. You obviously won't have to suffer so I struggle to see your argument.

Why is it a “big assumption” whether it works or not?
It’s been tested extensively with hundreds of thousands of test subjects of all races, ages, gender and health conditions. The various vaccines are the result of a collaborative effort from dozens of countries and tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of experts globally. Essentially unlimited money has been thrown at finding a vaccine and the R+D bill will be hundreds of billions of pounds worldwide. On top of all this there’s decades of data from previous coronaviruses to assist with today’s research.

The vaccine isn’t just a shot in the dark or a cocktail of assorted chemicals we’re just hoping will work.

extensively ? you can draw the line on that where ever you wish.. tested in line to get normal government approval ? .no they are not infact a long way short. we are only a few months in and the vaccines have caused deaths resulting in a change in who now does not get them....fill your boots have a 100 vaccines but be truthful about it....
some shit written on here..

With the various vaccines and pharmaceutical companies, it has been tested on 100's of thousands of people. Multiple, very large sample sizes with multiple variables: age, gender, health conditions, race, etc counts as extensive. Extensive is determined by the number of samples in an experiment, in this case the vaccine and research into it counts as extensive.

Your main gripe is with the timeframe I believe, I assume that's what you're doubting about me calling it "extensive"? Maybe it's another poster I'm thinking of?

As for the vaccines causing deaths, would you be referring to the 33 deaths in Norway? If not direct me to which deaths you refer, I'm only aware of the Norwegian ones from the start of January.
Norway have vaccinated around 220k people at last count, comparatively Norway had 582 deaths from 65k Covid cases. As for the people that died in Norway they were extremely old with underlying health conditions, there was always a risk that a foreign agent into their body could cause significant harm or even death.
That's hardly limited to this vaccine though, people are allergic to penicillin, ibuprofen, aspirin, chemo medication, etc. In this very thread people have commented that they themselves or people they know have had reactions to the flu jab.

As of Saturday and after 2 months of administering vaccines, 12.3million people in the UK have been given the first dose, the vast majority being old or with underlying health conditions yet we have not seen a surge in deaths. In fact, I've not seen any news about anybody dying in the UK after being administered the vaccine. For some perspective, with the current fatality rate of UK Covid cases, 12.3 million Covid cases would cause ~350k deaths.

Surely a sample size of over 12 million people should be extensive enough to see the vaccine causing unexpected fatalities?

Well put, but,there have been numerous deaths in the uk,northern ireland,its not true to say there have been no deaths after the jab.plenty of evidence of whole care homes getting infected,one in devon had 11 residents,all had jabs 2 weeks ago,but have all now got covid.its unfair now to use the adage of they were old and unwell,so injecting them with chemicals could/would cause their deaths? A fee countries are now considering not giving it to over 65's due to "small test numbers for this age group"

Does anyone know if you have to be tested before receiving the vaccine? Seems a bit daft if not,as what if a person is positive for the virus, will the vaccine have any effect?

No they don't test you before you have a covid vaccine why would they? They do ask if you have symptoms though so as not to pass it on to others waiting for a vaccine.

I don't know the answer to what affect it would have, but I would imagine it would help by adding an extra immune response?

The vaccine takes 3 weeks to offer a strong level of covid protection, so yes a care home resident is unprotected at 2 weeks. so that is to be expected. I haven't heard of one case where someone has died as a result of having a vaccine, but I have heard of millions dying of covid who haven't had one.

When i had my jab they took peoples temps, before they gave the vaccine!

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

correct....MSM have had agendas since they were formed....
the rest very much backs that statement up..... for the life of me i can not figure out how someone can start with that as point A.... then write war and peace unravelling his own very correct first sentence...

My point is that the mainstream media is not one single entity. The individual components that make up the mainstream media have completely different opinions and agenda and have done since their individual formations.
FOX News and CNN are part of the MSM, yet have polar opposite reports on the state of affairs in America, likewise in the UK the Daily Mail and the Guardian and the Sun and the Telegraph are all part of the MSM yet have wildly different approaches to journalism in the UK. Same with Sky, BBC, ITV, C4, etc. All part of the MSM but with different biases, opinions and agendas.

For example, we're all football fans. But we're not all Crewe, West Ham, Aston Villa or Sunderland fans.

Using the MSM as a blanket term and saying the MSM is pushing an agenda doesn't work, as all the components of the MSM are at odds with each other over different opinions or agendas. If a narrative was being forced, opposing sides would know and would use it to demonise the others. Yet despite this, globally, not one single big player has blown the cover on this clandestine operation because there simply is none. Every government of every nation have played or will play some part in the vaccine research and vaccine rollout, they're not doing this because they've been duped.

Sorry if that's too long, next time I'll throw in some "waw" or "......" so it better suits your reading

clandestine operation is that the new version of qanon trumpton conspiracy theory or whatever passes these days for being wrong ..?
anyway, im more than fed up of reading / watching and listening to news articles that do not represent the truth...its been scaremongering from day 1 starting with people LITERALLY dropping and dying infront of your eyes in China { fake but never the less reported as fact across our media } its gone on to concentrate on health care workers dying, the young dying, a coffin maker { who had just won a contract..not mentioned in the article } who is now making 5000% more coffins etc etc etc ... none actual lies but hardly a very balanced truth either... worse though..is people that read and watch this stuff then feel a need to exaggerate it... reality is , if you live in a small town of 20k pple the local undertaker would ordinarily be doing about 16 funerals per month , in 2020 he would have done 17 or 18 a month with the extra 1 or 2 most likely to be very old with a very poor life expectancy .. that is 100% not what is being portrayed... as for the vaccines... they didnt test the over 65s as much....REALLY who on earth did they think this was killing..?
but if you want to believe the spoon fed stuff and it does not make you stop and think fair enough..just if your going to repeat it repeat it properly without adding to the already OTT biased scaremongering...

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

'I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas. '
Can I ask where are these other areas that you research in?

Sadly I think it will be more facebook than new scientist.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

'I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas. '
Can I ask where are these other areas that you research in?

Sadly I think it will be more facebook than new scientist.

facebook ?????????? why not throw in trump...conspiracy theory... qanon... or the new one...clandestine opperation...they beat facts all day long for some...

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

'I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas. '
Can I ask where are these other areas that you research in?

Sadly I think it will be more facebook than new scientist.

facebook ?????????? why not throw in trump...conspiracy theory... qanon... or the new one...clandestine opperation...they beat facts all day long for some...

Alternatively you could throw in some links to the apparently easily researched fact that the entirety of the MSM and all its opposing factions are purposely misleading us about the vaccine. Since that’s what my response to TheHangedMan was about.

Not sure why you’re trying to quote me with “clandestine operation” as if I believe it? I think you’ve got yourself a bit muddled up. My whole point is that these things, along with QAnon and Trump, actually do beat facts all day long for some waw....

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

Much more than spot on, excellent post

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

Much more than spot on, excellent post

Ta lads, I try my best

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

Much more than spot on, excellent post

Ta lads, I try my best

It is a great post and no one has been able to give a sensible reply to contradict it

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

'I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas. '
Can I ask where are these other areas that you research in?

Sadly I think it will be more facebook than new scientist.

facebook ?????????? why not throw in trump...conspiracy theory... qanon... or the new one...clandestine opperation...they beat facts all day long for some...

Alternatively you could throw in some links to the apparently easily researched fact that the entirety of the MSM and all its opposing factions are purposely misleading us about the vaccine. Since that’s what my response to TheHangedMan was about.

Not sure why you’re trying to quote me with “clandestine operation” as if I believe it? I think you’ve got yourself a bit muddled up. My whole point is that these things, along with QAnon and Trump, actually do beat facts all day long for some waw....

l did not TRY to quote you...i DID quote you... it along with the other things mentioned is the answer for everything and constantly used by everyone that doesnt have an actual answer its akin to name calling...
as for links....how about putting up a few yourself ...start with vaccine claims over the last 3/4 months to prove nothing has changed...

I don't really understand why people would take an anti virus stance, what have you got to gain?

If people take it you get protection from heard immunity and benefit from other peoples actions. if you can persuade people not to take it, and there are quite a few gullible people that might believe some of the nonsense on here, they don't take the vaccine, we don't have head immunity and we remain in lockdown for many years, is that what you want, do you enjoy the measures?

Let me help your lack of understanding:

Firstly, if you actually read my post, I encourage anyone and everyone to do what they feel is right.

Secondly, if people decide they want to take the vaccine they have nothing to worry about from non takers because they are obviously protected....assuming the vaccine does what it says on the tin.

Thirdly, who the f**k are you? You give it the large based on bullshit MSM and then have a go at someone who supports free will. Get a grip you clown.

Why do you mention MSM in almost every post you make? You were at least making sense with the first 2 points then totally lost it on the 3rd with your mentioning "bullshit MSM yet again". Not sure where Bluebina was "giving it large" in his post either but as you say in point 2, you do yours & let other people do theirs without the swearing and MSM crap.

I concede your point about my 3rd point.....I do not normally get that aggitated and abusive about most issues. I could have stated what I was alluding to in a better way......so I will try and do it now.

The reason I go on about the MSM is a) I don't believe them, and haven't for quite a few years, I research in other areas and b) I truly believe that the general public is being lied to, to suit an agenda that ultimately will deprive us of freedoms that were literally hard fought for.

The MSM used to be there to give you NEWS i.e. actual facts. Those days dissapeared many moons ago and essentially they now just give you THEIR opinion.

The saddesst thing I witness is Bluebina and Co. buying into the lie and purporting it as de facto truth.

Please inform us then (in layman's terms for those of us without medical, pharmaceutical, biochemical, etc degrees) what your own personal research has shown about why the vaccine won't work.

Secondly, you genuinely believe that the news used to be unbiased and unopinionated?? Sorry pal but news corporations and newspapers have had agendas since the day they were first formed. The reason so many news channels and newspapers exist is because they report the news differently to fit an agenda. The MSM has never been there to just deliver you unfiltered and unopinionated news.

In actuality the fact that the vast majority of the world has come together to distribute the same vaccines actively disproves your theory this is an agenda driven media campaign. The BBC, Sky, ITV, Channel 4, Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Guardian, The South Wales Echo, etc have all expressed different opinions at different times about vaccines but after 2 months of the vaccines being rolled out not one is actively campaigning against the vaccine. Were this being driven by one group or side you would imagine the others would speak out.

Globally, we're seeing countries that have spent years at war distributing the same vaccines, left wing and right wing leaning governments that spend years negotiating negligible issues are working together to distribute the vaccine. Countries with dictatorships and monarchies alike are all helping with the global vaccine effort.

There isn't a single media organisation, news group, shadowy cabal or eccentric billionaire on the planet that has this much sway to convince so many governments, science communities, media corporations and civilians to follow an agenda based on lies. Lies that are apparently so easily proven from some quick googling. Surely a power with the ability to convince the world to follow a singular agenda would have no trouble removing conflicting evidence?

Spot on

Much more than spot on, excellent post

Ta lads, I try my best

It is a great post and no one has been able to give a sensible reply to contradict it

its contradicted itself... the media has always been agenda based... then goes on to imply how its not this time.... discredit a few things that nobody actually said....and the 2 biggest scaremongers in Europe think its great.... waw...