What has Vincent Tan ever done for us????

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

Too true!!!!!!!!!!

It will be very very interesting to see what crowds we get next season, especially as some on here say Tan has moved the club forward and done a good job The Crowds will answer a lot if what some people say are true.

I wonder what percentage of people on this forum actually go to games?

I have always wondered that, good question?

Me? Pay for 100%, attend about 90% depending on work, etc.


What about you???

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Says vinny tans love child.

Tan has destroyed my club. You don't remember cardiff city in division 4 do you? I do and I preferred it. Everybody in the ground then was a true fan not a jumped up plastic.

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Says vinny tans love child.

Tan has destroyed my club. You don't remember cardiff city in division 4 do you? I do and I preferred it. Everybody in the ground then was a true fan not a jumped up plastic.

I do actually, and I have programmes from when we played Aldershot Town before they went bust.

We'll never make a profit while the club is run in its current form- wages are too high for a start, something like 180% of turnover? That's unsustainable. The only way we can make a profit like that is to keep the wage bill and all other expenses equal to current levels and get to the top 10 of the PL at a minimum. That can't all happen, it's impossible and Tan won't add to the debt indefinitely. Add in the fact unless debt to equity occurs a few times (which isn't in Tans interests) the debt will continue to rise with Tan loaning more money to the club. Many people say he's good in business but anyone can work out that unless a drastic change occurs in either the expenses being reduced or income increasing exponentially we're up shit creek. Maybe I'm wrong, but either way I believe our club is suffering long term due to the debt levels and my own personal doubt about him turning debt to equity.

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Says vinny tans love child.

Tan has destroyed my club. You don't remember cardiff city in division 4 do you? I do and I preferred it. Everybody in the ground then was a true fan not a jumped up plastic.

I do actually, and I have programmes from when we played Aldershot Town before they went bust.

They were known as Aldershot FC before they went bust. They reformed as Aldershot Town.

I have a ccfc v Real Madrid program yet I was born in 1972.

I smell bullshit.

Why abuse Natman just because his opinion is different. He has been called all sorts on this thread and whilst I dont agree with everything he says, he has put it across in a sensible manner.

Why abuse Natman just because his opinion is different. He has been called all sorts on this thread and whilst I dont agree with everything he says, he has put it across in a sensible manner.

Sad ain't it!

I remember us in Div 4, and always found it quite sad seeing crowds of 5 -6000 after the good days of Toshack, Clarke etc. when we had 18 to 25000 and a cracking atmosphere. I wouldn't want to go back to the days of small crowds and watching the likes of Barnet and Darlington. If Natman Blue says he was there, I have no reason to doubt him. If he's like me his programmes are probably packed away somewhere safe, and calling them Aldershot Town is a natural mistake as that's what their known as now.

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

Yes I've read and listened to him and every promise he has made has an optout. There is no promise of when any of it will happen leaving us all in the lurch and giving his red puppets an excuse.

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

Yes I've read and listened to him and every promise he has made has an optout. There is no promise of when any of it will happen leaving us all in the lurch and giving his red puppets an excuse.

I don't think it's anything of the sort, these things just take time. It can take us normal folk years to work down a few 1000s of debt.

I have to say, some of the posts regarding the debt being cleared are starting to sound like a fantasy story

Next you'll be saying Tan is turning us back BLUE

All opinions welcome

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

Yes I've read and listened to him and every promise he has made has an optout. There is no promise of when any of it will happen leaving us all in the lurch and giving his red puppets an excuse.

I don't think it's anything of the sort, these things just take time. It can take us normal folk years to work down a few 1000s of debt.

Tan could wipe the debt of us overnight and he would not feel the slightest pinch. Your excuses Nathanial are getting unreal.

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

Yes I've read and listened to him and every promise he has made has an optout. There is no promise of when any of it will happen leaving us all in the lurch and giving his red puppets an excuse.

I don't think it's anything of the sort, these things just take time. It can take us normal folk years to work down a few 1000s of debt.

Tan could wipe the debt of us overnight and he would not feel the slightest pinch. Your excuses Nathanial are getting unreal.

SPOT ON Ian

2 out of the 3 opening posts were decent.

Soon as these threads are started though you can see an argument a mile off, pity.

Not even worth reading now as you know it's going to be full of childish arguing, and that is really annoying.

Crazy how you can get decent debate in a pub, yet over the internet people post in a different manner to how they would face to face, post a little braver, and all these rows rage on and on..

I have to say, some of the posts regarding the debt being cleared are starting to sound like a fantasy story

Next you'll be saying Tan is turning us back BLUE

All opinions welcome

You were the one mentioning days, not me!

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

Yes I've read and listened to him and every promise he has made has an optout. There is no promise of when any of it will happen leaving us all in the lurch and giving his red puppets an excuse.

I don't think it's anything of the sort, these things just take time. It can take us normal folk years to work down a few 1000s of debt.

Tan could wipe the debt of us overnight and he would not feel the slightest pinch. Your excuses Nathanial are getting unreal.

And how would that benefit us or tan whilst we are continually operating at loss. Those things need to be corrected first.

I have to say, some of the posts regarding the debt being cleared are starting to sound like a fantasy story

Next you'll be saying Tan is turning us back BLUE

All opinions welcome

You were the one mentioning days, not me!

You tell him bro, who does he think he is having ago at Sir Tan

We know Tan wont clear the debt as long as we are Red who cares bro

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

Yes I've read and listened to him and every promise he has made has an optout. There is no promise of when any of it will happen leaving us all in the lurch and giving his red puppets an excuse.

I don't think it's anything of the sort, these things just take time. It can take us normal folk years to work down a few 1000s of debt.

Tan could wipe the debt of us overnight and he would not feel the slightest pinch. Your excuses Nathanial are getting unreal.

yes he could........but would that be the best for the club.......the best for him......or just to keep the a few sheep quiet

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

Yes I've read and listened to him and every promise he has made has an optout. There is no promise of when any of it will happen leaving us all in the lurch and giving his red puppets an excuse.

I don't think it's anything of the sort, these things just take time. It can take us normal folk years to work down a few 1000s of debt.

Tan could wipe the debt of us overnight and he would not feel the slightest pinch. Your excuses Nathanial are getting unreal.

yes he could........but would that be the best for the club.......the best for him......or just to keep the a few sheep quiet

No Simon what was promised at the first ever club meeting and why some then accepted the rebrand on the condition of debt to equity

Dont u think its going on and on, well past 2 years now?

My final answer on this debate as we are just going over old ground and around in Tans Circus.

" OUR IDENTITY IS WHAT MATTERS TO ME "


At the end of the day, we all have opinions and should Respect each others

Mine will always be that by changing/stripping Cardiff City of their 100 years of identity and the only one I have ever(BLUE) known for 43 years, to me Tan has there for killed anything good he could have or might have ever done for our club

I acknowledge is important to you but what is also important is we stick to facts and don't go saying that Vincent Tan has said something that he clearly hasn't said!

Tan said he would convert the debt to equity or was I hearing things?

ian, the dispute is over time frames. Annis keeps saying that tan said days when it's always been mentioned in regards to a long term plan of becoming debt free

No it has not.

So let me ask you a question and be honest with your reply. When Tan came out with the debt to equity how long did ou expect us to wait.

To be honest I can't remember, maybe as well I thought it was days but looking over the press releases and the videos now then if I did it was because I was misinformed. Have you read and listened to the Ian?

Yes I've read and listened to him and every promise he has made has an optout. There is no promise of when any of it will happen leaving us all in the lurch and giving his red puppets an excuse.

I don't think it's anything of the sort, these things just take time. It can take us normal folk years to work down a few 1000s of debt.

Tan could wipe the debt of us overnight and he would not feel the slightest pinch. Your excuses Nathanial are getting unreal.

yes he could........but would that be the best for the club.......the best for him......or just to keep the a few sheep quiet

For a start it would be good for the club specially as it has paid the price for it.

Who are you referring to as a few sheep?

I have to say, some of the posts regarding the debt being cleared are starting to sound like a fantasy story

Next you'll be saying Tan is turning us back BLUE

All opinions welcome

Didn't he say he say he would like to sit down and reach some sort of compromise? Might be a good idea to sit down, listen and speak with him instead of throwing doomsday prediction on fiction. The dept is his, not the fans. So we are hardly going under when he owes the money to himself. If someone bought the club and not the dept, then you should be worried. So much for a blue shirt with no club.

Put us in to millions more debt, stripped the club of its identity, alienated the fan base with dismissive comments, made the club a laughing stock up and down the country, split the fan base to a level never seen before.

Constantly delayed promises about debt to equity. Confirmed he won't be doing a full debt to equity swap, as promised originally.

Rangers were a laughing stock as they went bust. Portsmouth fans having 'you're not famous anymore' and such like also makes them a laughing stock. We are not a laughing stock. I see many fans of other clubs in my work who ask me about the kit change and I tell them I'd love to be back in blue but I love not being in court every month a lot more.

Put us in to millions more debt, stripped the club of its identity, alienated the fan base with dismissive comments, made the club a laughing stock up and down the country, split the fan base to a level never seen before.

Constantly delayed promises about debt to equity. Confirmed he won't be doing a full debt to equity swap, as promised originally.

Rangers were a laughing stock as they went bust. Portsmouth fans having 'you're not famous anymore' and such like also makes them a laughing stock. We are not a laughing stock. I see many fans of other clubs in my work who ask me about the kit change and I tell them I'd love to be back in blue but I love not being in court every month a lot more.

The fact that a Swansea fan posts things to try and get us to turn more against Tan should tell Cardiff fans what other fans really think!

Was asked to post this in a thread all of it's own so here it goes;

Stadium expansion, training ground (going through planning permission), squad investment, premier league football (albeit for one season), backing Ole again in the transfer window to go straight back up, sorting out the governance issues at the club, clearing the debt owed to all and sundry, getting cardiff blues out of the stadium, raising our worldwide profile, donating money to local charities, pitch lighting, a wider club network (sarajevo etc.), clearing out the deadwood at the club etc etc etc

There's a long term plan here. He's developing the asset base of the club to help develop our balance sheet and turn us into a more attractive outfit. With putting all the infrastructure in place hopefully we can begin to turn that operating loss into an operating surplus. The aim is a debt free club and unless all those things (and possibly more) are developed then there is no way we can look to addressing not only our historical debt but the legacy of continually trading at a loss. If those key issues aren't addressed then we will be back to square one in no time at all. What's the point in him clearing our debt only to be years down the line and we just owe someone else exceptionally large amounts of money (in Cardiff's standards), it would just undo everything. So, with all that in mind what is the point in doing a wholesale 'debt to equity' swap in the immediate future when we'll just start going down the slippery slope all over again.


At the minute the money is all owed to Tan. For Tan the level of debt we have is more than serviceable and manageable whilst he is involved. Who owns the club? Tan! Who does the club owe money to? Tan! It's in his interests to make it work. The money is a drop in the ocean for him, but he has and is sticking with us and it will only be to both our benefit (Tan and the club). That's why I say we should be working together with Tan rather than the abuse he is getting on here, the abuse at games and the lies and propaganda that is spread about him. The Echo and the welsh media need to grow up, any sign of something good for the city and they can't wait to try and stick the boot in.

We've been seeing this long term plan developing and the wheels being put into motion all of last season. I say again, it's a long term plan to make us debt free and he's putting everything into place to achieve that over this past season and we will continue to see it. Time to work with him and get a return to blue than against him and then who knows what will happen?!?!?!?

Stripped the club of all it's integrity in one fell swoop

There is no doubt that when Tan came in we were up shit creek without a paddle and HMRC were in applying for a wind up order and there certain didn't seem to be anyone on a white charger riding over the horizon to save us! So Tan comes in and at first things seem good he invests in the team and up until the West Ham play off defeat he doesn't seem to do a lot wrong?

Then he makes a decision which commercially and publicity wise has been a disaster and is hated by myself and thousands of other Cardiff City fans the decision to change our home kit from Blue to Red and a new badge that is and was hard to stomach.

Many say it is only a colour but it is so much more to many fans like myself who have followed City since the early seventies however i don't hate Tan and I accept he has put more investment into this Club than any Chairman I can remember in my time watching the City. We are all watching the World Cup at the moment and we had two players out there who are currently Cardiff City players and I really do have to pinch myself to see how far we have come in the past 10 years I have been to Wembley FIVE times watching City including watching us in the final of the two biggest domestic trophies bloody hell I remember when I got excited if we through to the 3rd Round of the F.A. Cup!

With regard the debt it is massive but we have been in debt to one Chairman or another ever since I can remember and it seems at the moment that Tan is prepared to service the debt and also to provide investment to try and secure an immediate return to the Premiership where we have to be if we are going to stabalise and reduce the debt and get on a better financial footing.

So yes I can see that Vincent Tan has done a lot of positive things but he also made a massive mistake and scored a disastrous own goal with the re brand because without that if we had stayed in Blue with our old badge and a red away kit there would have been far more unity and with that unity we might even still be in the Premiership?

I have posted many times previously that there has to be compromise and for that to happen Vincent Tan must be prepared to have dialogue with the supporters possibly via the Trust or the Supporters Club he also has to accept that the re brand has been a complete failure but he must be allowed to make the change back without losing face and there must be some give and take on both sides.

Personally i would prefer if the Club was owned by a mad passionate Bluebirds fan who was a Billionaire but we have to accept that isn't going to happen and we have to ask what is the alternative to Vincent Tan and nobody seems to know the answer to that? So I will like many others continue to wear Blue and campaign to return to Blue kit at home and the return of our badge however this can all be done without hating Vincent Tan and also by respecting other fans might have a different view to me.

We are ALL Cardiff City fans and ultimately we all want a successful and well run football club can that happen under Vincent Tan only time and compromise can bring that about