Fight for blue.... Team? Club?... Home truths.

yes i know exactly what i type...............its your thoughts that others think these ludicrous things thats a tad mad........the easiest way to lift your own ego is to try to discredit others IN YOUR OWN MIND............
and thats what your posts amount too.......
i doubt it would cross the majority of posters minds that anyone thinks its ONLY THE TRUST that can buy a club........you have this you know everything and everyone else is stupid head on
GO GET YOUR A LEVELS THICKO

Why would i want A-levels? Ive already completed my higher education and am now a multi millionaire

The rest of your post is absolute nonsense waffle as per usual. You never have a point to make, the stuff you write is just the ramblings of an uneducated teen in a tantrum that isnt quite sure of the point he is trying to make but just wants to rant.

Put together a nice sensible post and we can discuss, until then you are wasting your time and everybody elses time that has to read such dribble.

why ? i can tell you why you didnt do A levels...............its because as big a smartarse as you are......smart and smartarse aint the same thing..and deep down you know it....................done with this thread.............your a beaut roath

yes i know exactly what i type...............its your thoughts that others think these ludicrous things thats a tad mad........the easiest way to lift your own ego is to try to discredit others IN YOUR OWN MIND............
and thats what your posts amount too.......
i doubt it would cross the majority of posters minds that anyone thinks its ONLY THE TRUST that can buy a club........you have this you know everything and everyone else is stupid head on
GO GET YOUR A LEVELS THICKO

Why would i want A-levels? Ive already completed my higher education and am now a multi millionaire

The rest of your post is absolute nonsense waffle as per usual. You never have a point to make, the stuff you write is just the ramblings of an uneducated teen in a tantrum that isnt quite sure of the point he is trying to make but just wants to rant.

Put together a nice sensible post and we can discuss, until then you are wasting your time and everybody elses time that has to read such dribble.

you do not discuss anything...........its why the threads are always so long,people like me bite at the stupidity.........you come across as not understanding, so people try again and again...........to say there is no difference between buying a newsagents to tesco is a top top post............fair play youve out done yourself today.............
anyone that is intelligent and has a mind to can go right through this thread..............see many many responses that totally destroy you.............your come backs?........well they totally ignore the very valid points being made....you just use words like pleb and nonsense a lot and pretend to yourself your smart......

i have 25k in the house,you reckon if i pop to tesco they will sell me a few shops...............

Anyone that is intelligent will have lost about a billion brain cells after reading your posts thats for sure

Always happy to discuss things soulofthesea, however you just go off ranting and not making any sense what so ever.

Ive explained why there is no difference to putting 25k into Swansea and 150m into Cardiff. If you cant grasp it then that os fine, just focus on the point, ask me the stuff that doesnt make sense to you and the thread can stay on topic.

Otherwise its like a conversation with a retarded butterfly.

why ? i can tell you why you didnt do A levels...............its because as big a smartarse as you are......smart and smartarse aint the same thing..and deep down you know it....................done with this thread.............your a beaut roath

Running away so soon?

I didnt do A levels because they dont do A levels is Sports Studies which Graig Llanelli offered.... Gaining the qualification enabling me to go to university

Have another go thicko

The irony of SoulOfTheSea calling me thick.... in one of the many threads where he is made to look rather thick..

You can't argue with the jack, he makes valid and embarrassing points. Anyone who is proud to be associated with our club, as it is now, needs a long hard look at themselves. We are a laughing stock, when people used to ask me who I supported I would burst with pride saying, "Cardiff City"! now I say "the old Cardiff City" and wait for the ever so f.uckign humorous, shouldn't you be wearing red joke.

There is simply no comparison between the Swansea City of Tony Pettys era and The Cardiff City of Vincent Tan.

Back then You're team was worth in financial terms the square root of sod all and owned by a local businessman with limited finances and unable to bankroll you're continued survival.
Easy to manipulate and start a PR war against him, and ahem "take back" your club.
You had no real opposition , I don't know and don't care about the history of that saga but suspect petty was glad to get the club off his hands.

Compare that with modern football and the millions involved in this day and age.
The modern day football fan has limited or no influence on the decisions affecting his club , and this respect we are no different to the likes of Man Utd, Villa , Arsenal etc

Call it what you like , the modern football fan is just a consumer or customer to those running football today.

Do you think Man U fans can or have had any realistic influence regarding the decisions of the glazier family that have laden them with debt ?"

Do you seriously think Aston villa fans can help decide who their next owner will be and how their club will be run when the asking price is £250m ?

Look at the continuing turmoil at Newcastle , MIke Ashley runs the club his way oblivious to the local fans wishes for more investment so that they can progress.
They have no influence , it's his train set, as it is for many modern football club owners.

That's where we are at Cardiff.

Uncle vinny has circa £100m tied up in us , light years away from what you're comparing with Swansea a decade ago , so your argument is simply non comparable.

Try "taking you're club back" in the modern premiership era..... You'd get nowhere.

So the best we can do is chip away game by game with a PR campaign to keep our clubs issues in the news , a campaign which is seemingly growing in momentum albeit slowly.
Next season the form and the guise of the campaign may change and include more than just the scarf protest... Who knows ?

We are doing exactly what you did a decade ago but in a vastly different era and in different circumstances.

There is simply no comparison between the Swansea City of Tony Pettys era and The Cardiff City of Vincent Tan.

Back then You're team was worth in financial terms the square root of sod all and owned by a local businessman with limited finances and unable to bankroll you're continued survival.
Easy to manipulate and start a PR war against him, and ahem "take back" your club.
You had no real opposition , I don't know and don't care about the history of that saga but suspect petty was glad to get the club off his hands.

Compare that with modern football and the millions involved in this day and age.
The modern day football fan has limited or no influence on the decisions affecting his club , and this respect we are no different to the likes of Man Utd, Villa , Arsenal etc

Call it what you like , the modern football fan is just a consumer or customer to those running football today.

Do you think Man U fans can or have had any realistic influence regarding the decisions of the glazier family that have laden them with debt ?"

Do you seriously think Aston villa fans can help decide who their next owner will be and how their club will be run when the asking price is £250m ?

Look at the continuing turmoil at Newcastle , MIke Ashley runs the club his way oblivious to the local fans wishes for more investment so that they can progress.
They have no influence , it's his train set, as it is for many modern football club owners.

That's where we are at Cardiff.

Uncle vinny has circa £100m tied up in us , light years away from what you're comparing with Swansea a decade ago , so your argument is simply non comparable.

Try "taking you're club back" in the modern premiership era..... You'd get nowhere.

So the best we can do is chip away game by game with a PR campaign to keep our clubs issues in the news , a campaign which is seemingly growing in momentum albeit slowly.
Next season the form and the guise of the campaign may change and include more than just the scarf protest... Who knows ?

We are doing exactly what you did a decade ago but in a vastly different era and in different circumstances.

As i was telling soulofthesea.

Tan has put £100 odd million into you. The company loses millions a year, as soon as that loss starts going above the value of the clubs assets then uncle vinny will stop putting money in as he is essentially just chucking it away. So what would he want in order to walk away? His money back - same as Petty.

Where we bought petty out - the assets of the club can cover vinny's investment and the club is then debt free and on the market. There is little difference. The sums are more but so are the assets, it offsets. The fact is vinny is teetering, his risk to reward ratio is sky rocketing by the week, his family want him out of there and there is turmoil at every corner.

I whole heartedly believe the modern day fan has immense amounts of power. Its just some choose not to use it.

Still requires a lot of money and investment tho and I'm not convinced about the value of the assets either I'm not sure they would be enough to offset.

You talked about a consortium made up of trust members who bought out petty.

The amounts involved were proberly just about doable for local wealthy benefactors at the time.

The sums involved for a similar buy out by local benefactors or a consortium would be different kettle of fish altogether and in reality out of reach and unlikely to occur.

I'm also unaware of any examples of current premiership or championship club where the fans have exercised their "power" in order to influence the running and decision making of their club and that includes a trust run swansea city.

I believe they have trust members on their board but what real power do they really have in influencing policy and decision making at the club at an executive level ?.

Still requires a lot of money and investment tho and I'm not convinced about the value of the assets either I'm not sure they would be enough to offset. You talked about a consortium made up of trust members who bought out petty.The amounts involved were proberly just about doable for local wealthy benefactors at the time. The sums involved for a similar buy out by local benefactors or a consortium would be different kettle of fish altogether and in reality out of reach and unlikely to occur

of course but again, im not talking about a consortium. A debt free club in the championship will always sell, always. You have to use the fight against vinny and carry it on to make sure the new owners know how its cuatomers/fans want it to go forward. Your priority needs to be get rid of the debt and restore your identity - that happens with vinny leaving. I dont understand what the hold up is and why people are pussy footing around.

I'm also unaware of any examples of current premiership or championship club where the fans have exercised their "power" in order to influence the running and decision making of their club and that includes a trust run swansea city.

im not sure there has been any real call for it has there? We have 22% of the club and a seat on the board. We have as much input as anybody else on the board. Things often get put to a vote for the board members and the trust has often had the deciding vote.

I believe they have trust members on their board but what real power do they really have in influencing policy and decision making at the club at an executive level ?.

as above, the trust is very powerful at Swansea city.

Swansea are pretty much a unique example in the higher echelons of the football pyramid.

You were lucky enough to take advantage of a set of circumstances which enabled you to wipe the financial slate clean and start from scratch at a time when points were not deducted for such actions.

The club at the time was at rock bottom with a small fan base ,which facilitated and made easier a primarily fan led ownership scheme to be applied.

You had no other real option at the time.

It's to be applauded , and you deserve the plaudits that you have received , but also it's a model which is either hard to or Impossible to implement at most other clubs with different ownership structures and financial models like ourselves who have large historic debt issues to deal with.

Hence the reliance on benefactors and the lack of fans influence on the how the club is run , which allows the ideas like rebrands and name changes and hence loss of identity to go ahead .


The Swansea model won't work at other clubs Not with multi million revenue streams at stake ... It's a nice idea .....I'd love British football clubs to be run like the German club model with mostly fan ownership ... But our history and culture is different.

I believe your trying to fit square pegs in to round holes.

Swansea are pretty much a unique example in the higher echelons of the football pyramid.

You were lucky enough to take advantage of a set of circumstances which enabled you to wipe the financial slate clean and start from scratch at a time when points were not deducted for such actions.

The club at the time was at rock bottom with a small fan base ,which facilitated and made easier a primarily fan led ownership scheme to be applied.

You had no other real option at the time.

It's to be applauded , and you deserve the plaudits that you have received , but also it's a model which is either hard to or Impossible to implement at most other clubs with different ownership structures and financial models like ourselves who have large historic debt issues to deal with.

Hence the reliance on benefactors and the lack of fans influence on the how the club is run , which allows the ideas like rebrands and name changes and hence loss of identity to go ahead .


The Swansea model won't work at other clubs Not with multi million revenue streams at stake ... It's a nice idea .....I'd love British football clubs to be run like the German club model with mostly fan ownership ... But our history and culture is different.

I believe your trying to fit square pegs in to round holes.

The two main points you make -

1) sanctions of administration. You would not be in administration should vinny be forced out, there is not one benefit to Tan for doing that, everything would be sold and you would be debt free - or at least minimal and manageable.

2) lack of fans influence. You see, to be forgetting that it was fan pressure that scrapped rebrand plans after they were made public - then it was fan pressure that pushed it through. Now those same fans conveniently say "nothing we can do about it" when all the evidence points to the contrary, including tan stating as much himself.

Fan pressure did not push through the rebrand.

One man did that based on cultural assumptions that red was lucky.

Again we as fans had NO influence on this decision.

Despite the outcry from the fans at the initial unveiling of the rebrand this was ignored and the rebrand went ahead.

No different from the owners of Chelsea , Newcastle ,Hull Et all.

Their train set they do what they want and any opposition is ignored.

Fan pressure did not push through the rebrand.

One man did that based on cultural assumptions that red was lucky.

Again we as fans had NO influence on this decision.

Despite the outcry from the fans at the initial unveiling of the rebrand this was ignored and the rebrand went ahead.

No different from the owners of Chelsea , Newcastle ,Hull Et all.

Their train set they do what they want and any opposition is ignored.

spot on............unless your a small club..............this me and my 10 mates collected £5.70.....a few local businesses got involved and got 22k together.................YOU LOT ARE SHIT,for not doing the same is bollox............
the question is....how long would it take us to buy Tan out if he would accept 22k.........no marches or banners..be about 10minutes

Fan pressure did not push through the rebrand.
V
One man did that based on cultural assumptions that red was lucky.

Again we as fans had NO influence on this decision.

Despite the outcry from the fans at the initial unveiling of the rebrand this was ignored and the rebrand went ahead.

No different from the owners of Chelsea , Newcastle ,Hull Et all.

Their train set they do what they want and any opposition is ignored.

He fails to mention that local rate payers had already been informed that the liberty Stadium was going ahead 50% funded by them and no cost to either the football or Rugby clubs. The clubs restart up costs were peanuts, directors investment were nothing compared to save the swans fund raising programme. Not only did they startup again 2nd time without a points deduction they had the backing of the city as a whole plus outside assistance too. The fans and trust were a couple of thousand compared to tens of thousands of us residents. l pay three sets of rates also had a counter collection tin, my donations were probably more than a lot of the fans/trust. Do l hold a grudge no but it certainly pisses me of when people like this know all extract such hot air termed advice.

Fan pressure did not push through the rebrand.

One man did that based on cultural assumptions that red was lucky.

Again we as fans had NO influence on this decision.

Despite the outcry from the fans at the initial unveiling of the rebrand this was ignored and the rebrand went ahead.

No different from the owners of Chelsea , Newcastle ,Hull Et all.

Their train set they do what they want and any opposition is ignored.

What? Where were you when this happened?

A blog from the time...

http://www.cardiffcity-mad.co.uk/news/t ... ndex.shtml

Nothing like what happened elsewhere. It was solely down to fan anger why it was initially scrapped and then down to fan pleading when he said he would look elsewhere then as to why it went ahead.

Fan pressure did not push through the rebrand.
V
One man did that based on cultural assumptions that red was lucky.

Again we as fans had NO influence on this decision.

Despite the outcry from the fans at the initial unveiling of the rebrand this was ignored and the rebrand went ahead.

No different from the owners of Chelsea , Newcastle ,Hull Et all.

Their train set they do what they want and any opposition is ignored.

He fails to mention that local rate payers had already been informed that the liberty Stadium was going ahead 50% funded by them and no cost to either the football or Rugby clubs. The clubs restart up costs were peanuts, directors investment were nothing compared to save the swans fund raising programme. Not only did they startup again 2nd time without a points deduction they had the backing of the city as a whole plus outside assistance too. The fans and trust were a couple of thousand compared to tens of thousands of us residents. l pay three sets of rates also had a counter collection tin, my donations were probably more than a lot of the fans/trust. Do l hold a grudge no but it certainly pisses me of when people like this know all extract such hot air termed advice.

Which part of you wint go into administration is confusing you? You already have a stadium anyway, what are you concerned about? You know the one that the councils gave you the land worth millions for free

Fan pressure did not push through the rebrand.

One man did that based on cultural assumptions that red was lucky.

Again we as fans had NO influence on this decision.

Despite the outcry from the fans at the initial unveiling of the rebrand this was ignored and the rebrand went ahead.

No different from the owners of Chelsea , Newcastle ,Hull Et all.

Their train set they do what they want and any opposition is ignored.

spot on............unless your a small club..............this me and my 10 mates collected £5.70.....a few local businesses got involved and got 22k together.................YOU LOT ARE SHIT,for not doing the same is bollox............
the question is....how long would it take us to buy Tan out if he would accept 22k.........no marches or banners..be about 10minutes

Hw many more times does he have to be told that nobody is suggesting fans buy the club?

You're delusional if you think it was down to fan pressure.

The decision was made to rebrand by tan and a bit of scaremongering about walking away was part of the process.

It's called spin. Some fell for it most didn't, despite you're protests.

The subtext of you're whole argument is that somehow cardiff fans let this happen.

They didn't.

The decision was made for them.

One mans blog is a drop in the ocean, same as this messageboard represents the opinions of a tiny fraction of our fan base.

Looking back, the reversal due to original fan pressure couldn't have happened as colours of kit needed to be finalised by April time...

By then, the colours were entered as red & black and they couldn't have reversed them so late in the day, even if they wanted to.

You're delusional if you think it was down to fan pressure.

The decision was made to rebrand by tan and a bit of scaremongering about walking away was part of the process.

It's called spin. Some fell for it most didn't, despite you're protests.

The subtext of you're whole argument is that somehow cardiff fans let this happen.

They didn't.

The decision was made for them.

One mans blog is a drop in the ocean, same as this messageboard represents the opinions of a tiny fraction of our fan base.

The blog was purely to jog your memory. It sounds tarnished.

Would you like the statement from TG stating that due to what the fans think the rebrand will be scrapped and you will be in blue next year?

Or the report of fans being told they would be buried if they didnt toe the line?

Or the library archives of pretty much all the prominent fans writing letters to Tan via the media begging him to reconsider which promoted the fans representation meeting that agreed to give the go ahead?

All links i have at hand and ready to show you.

Are you seriously saying that a couple of hotheads at a meeting or half a dozen or so "prominent" fans who write into the local paper represent the 27000 or so folk who watch the matches in the stadium and the thousands of other fans registered on the clubs database ?

Just a ripple in the ocean my friend , they don't represent my views and thousands like me.

Are you seriously saying that a couple of hotheads at a meeting or half a dozen or so "prominent" fans who write into the local paper represent the 27000 or so folk who watch the matches in the stadium and the thousands of other fans registered on the clubs database ?

Just a ripple in the ocean my friend , they don't represent my views and thousands like me.

Of course they do. They are unofficial fans representatives.

The fact barely anything has been done for 2 years with poorly attended protest suggest the majority of the rest arent too bothered either as ling as he keeps handing over cash.

Or are realistic about modern football and realise they have no say in the matter despite their feelings and opinions .

And yep unelected fans representatives. ..... I didn't elect them nor did thousands of others.

They don't speak for them or myself.

Or are realistic about modern football and realise they have no say in the matter despite their feelings and opinions .

So then dont bother

A customer will always have a say in a customer based business. Regardless of how irrelevant they think they are.

If i thought Tesco ham was too expensive id like to complain but think i cant change a global organisations decisions. Yet if every customer decided to not buy the ham then the price will either go down or a replacement product brought in. That is the power of people and football is no different.

However it's the "business" of football we are talking about here which walk to a very different beat from other industries as many a past chairman of various football clubs have found to their cost.

Then customer base has no other choice, there is only one product involved.

Supermarkets aren't a vanity project like so many football clubs are.

Like you're other arguments they are simply not comparable.

However it's the "business" of football we are talking about here which walk to a very different beat from other industries as many a past chairman of various football clubs have found to their cost.

Then customer base has no other choice, there is only one product involved.

Supermarkets aren't a vanity project like so many football clubs are.

Like you're other arguments they are simply not comparable.

Its very comparable indeed, its simply people power.

You are suggesting "can do nothing" after literally - doing nothing. It is not based on experience, just a defeatist attitude that is probably way off the mark. I mean he has to,d you himself he will walk away if the fans disrespect him... Yet still barely a peep in anger.

Surely the fanbase so desperate to return to blue will try every plausible realistic avenue before giving up surely?

Someone who has more experience than me in the business world will have to explain this to me but why would anyone invest in a company that has no assets?

Worry about your own club and we will worry about ours

But he is spot on though isn't he ? And even though he is a Jack at least he has the the brass bollocks to start his on threads not just pounce on everyone else's and slate them. Hmmmmm

Someone who has more experience than me in the business world will have to explain this to me but why would anyone invest in a company that has no assets?

Loads of reasons.

But which company are you specifically referring to, it would make reasoning easier.

He's hardly gong to walk away from his investment if people are rude to him.

Look at mike ashley and the abuse he gets !

I admire you're rather romantic notion of the people rising up to the evil dictator and overthrowing him in a coup de'tat.

But this is cold hearted capitalism in its most pure form and this ain't gonna happen in a world of billion dollar premiership tv rights.
It's a long way away from turn of the millenium and 3rd tier football a la tony petty and the Swansea "revolution"

It's not about acceptance , it's about realism.

We'll go about our campaign quietly and effectively and put pressure on VT in a more subtle way , maybe too subtle a way to gauge from Brisbane .